Standup Zone Forum
Stand Up Paddle => SUP General => Topic started by: lopezwill on December 06, 2017, 05:00:56 PM
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I live in central California and surfing spots are definitely more crowded these days. I occasionally sup surf a spot that locals (of which they all agree) have decided is closed to sup surfing. I have lay down surfed this spot for 25 plus years but due to neck problems I only sup surf now.
I hardly ever sup surf this spot and always try and find another place to go. This last swell left only this spot available due to winds and swell direction. I've been told out in the water a few times that this is not a sup spot and to move down the beach. I don't even respond to this and surf where I want to. I'm always polite, upbeat and known by most of the crew. They sort of "let me surf there cause I'm 62, been surfing there for many years and have learned to sup surf."
This last swell the tension in the water was very high. I let most of the good waves go (like I always do) but I also caught some good ones. I usually get the "Stink eye' when I'm on a wave but don't usually care as I'm having fun. This last swell on 5 of the best waves I caught somebody would cut me off. I'm used to it and I basically move them out of the wave by surfing past them. When I paddle back out they don't apologize for cutting me off just stink eye.
I left this "Go out" feeling discouraged that the vibe can be so awful to sup surfers that for me it was not fun. I know this is exactly what the locals want but I'm writing here to get some feedback.
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They have been doing it for years/ Surfers can't close the break to sup!!! MY plan and it has worked so far is to go with aloha. let the first set go through Then catch a nice set wave in the second set usually later in the set so that many have already got a wave and are paddling back out.( hopefully they own just paddle in front of you) when you ride the wave well they see and eventually they respect you. Sometimes I pick out a wave and will call it out to some of the ring leaders hopefully they catch on. If they don't then don't call waves for them any more call them for someone else, but don't back down.
YOU are 62 you have surfed many places and probably have way more experince than they do. I am 64 and it is the same for me although i have to say i think most areas are more accpeting these days. maybe the central coast is just lagging behind. Good luck!
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Everything you described plays a major role in why I don't SUP surf. Well that combined with just not wanting to deal with muscling a higher volume board and a paddle in hand for surfing. SUP for me is more of a way to enjoy simply being on the water as an alternative to surfing. With that, I'm probably not the best person to answer your question but I imagine the central coast has tons of empty areas. Sure those empty areas might get crappier surf but isn't that where a SUP board becomes an advantage? If due to wind and swell direction as you described there is only one ridable area that is crowded perhaps that would be a good day to just do something else OR maybe just go out for a paddle but not actually surf? I know that doesn't sound all that appealing but I do understand how other surfers around you can make your session not very fun. Where on the central coast do you live?
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I surf away from the crowd but if the opportunity presents itself, and I catch a good wave in the pack, I just smile and ignore the haters.
One time a guy pulled my leash intentionally and warned me he’d do that every time. I told him that he should get a good lawyer because I would sue him for harassment and intentional infliction of emotional pain. He never bothered me again. There’s something to be said for being older and knowing a bit about civil rights that makes the brash young guys a bit nervous.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Well said S4F,
I prone surf daily and only SUP when its marginal. Dealing with the tourists on Maui whom have no idea what t f they are doing you kind of put up with it.
I'm nearly 69 and short and longboard. Have been surfing for 62 years. if you have neck pain see a good chiro or physio therapist.
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Because life is not fair.
I got this waxed on my drivers window at a spot that I’ve surfed since I was old enough to drive.
Some things are what they are. If you went to play the game, that the way it is.
The author of the waxy scribble was unaware that I saw what car he got out of and got a few well placed drywall screws right in front of his back tires.
Childish for sure, but that’s the game.
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It’s pretty simple where I live , just lay off the points . A handful of very good Sup riders are tolerated but still not that welcome . The arguement is that other Suppers will see you out and think it’s cool to paddle out. We have 18 miles of beach breaks so you can always find something but sometimes the points are just so good the attraction is too much. I just Sup Foil now and sit wide and ride the fat ones on the points or beach breaks . I’m seeing the angst of the proners as other Sup riders come out to me and can’t get a wave and then drift into the line up creating havoc when they get cleaned up or paddling in with blinkers on and dropping in.
I’m a long time Sup rider and born and breed local . I’ve had that many run in’s I can’t count and with 20 years of water polo under my belt nothing was ever sorted out in the car park. I have never come to blows because they soon pull back when you take your leg rope off and swim up and say let’s settle this now in the water. I only do this to the guys you know I am talking about .
I have always defended and promoted Sup surfing but the more I sit wide over the past 6 months and look back into the line up and see the constant influx of riders on Sups , loggers & wave skies on the points doing the wrong thing . I’m a lot more simpathic to the angry proner.
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That’s what I’ve been told as well, ‘other sups will see you here and paddle out’.
As a life long surfer I get the respect being demanded for at the AAA spots where the prone crowd has a lineage of generations in the lineup. Sadly the behavior of some novice surfers can reek havoc and this is amplified if they’re on a sup.
I remember how it felt on a prone shortboard when a greedy longboarder would sit out the back and harvest set waves.
Sometimes either a midweek dawn patrol or a big swell can ease access. Though these sessions seem to be crowding as well.
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I say get as many good SUP surfers together (25 or so) and all hit the break together, strength in numbers, and then overcrowd the break with SUPs and make a point that times are changing and either they can become accommodating or they can go someplace else. Might take a awhile and will need the SUP group to do this together over and over to make the point, but it will get made. Don't make it an aggressive move, just a fun aloha adventure.
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lopezwill,
it's a crappy situation for sure, I think you are doing just what is called for.... playing with-in the the local politics and keeping them in a fragile truce.
It has gotten worse lately, but it may ease up after a while, or not, depending on how much "overall" threat SUP has on that line-up.
Thoughts on "localism" in general:
Surfing has always had aggressive locals. Some are downright lawless.
I have always understood that, but stand on the side of the "non-local" at breaks where tension arises.... unless the perp is a total moron.
I travel a lot to surf, and am very appreciative when I am respected at far away breaks, so I will always do the same to visitors.
Having said that, there are serious issues at most good breaks..... look no further than Malibu.
Perfection ruined.
Which leads to the question:
How would you keep a great break, from becoming overrun?
Too many people at a break, will render it useless.... and there are no "trail marking signs" like a ski area.
Typically, good breaks are easy to paddle out and easy to surf.... so any novice surfer can paddle out and destroy a break.
SUP has magnified that problem.
"localism" has evolved as the mechanism to keep this from happening.
We all need to play with this reality, and have to find a way to negotiate it.
Never play 2nd fiddle..... your place in the line-up should be earned by your surfing, not your board.
Line-up reality since I was 16:
If you are not a good surfer, leave the good breaks to better surfers.
Go down the beach to get your stripes.... then come back and earn a place in the line-up
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https://youtu.be/XPZDEWBzneY
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Maybe I'm just getting old and cranky or maybe not......
I have not been on a stand up for 6-7 months. I've been riding a 7'6" short board or 9'6" long board at breaks I can ride my bicycle to. Some days I have a lot of fun like this past Saturday, surfed with respectful folks and we all got happy. Then there are days like Sunday, different group at the same break. ZERO etiquette. back paddling, shoulder hopping, wave hogging....... I really don't want to be the old guy trying to regulate but this is out of control. With some localism and "uncles" in the lineup maintaining respect it'd be a better place. And that applies to newb crawlers, wanna b pro's as well as Supsters. I need to get back on a stand up and away from the crowds.
I'm currently looking for an 11', next to no rocker long board. You know the kind that catch waves extremely early? And a sticker for the nose saying "Towanda!!!"
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none of this is going to matter in 5 years.
There will be a Kelly Slater Wave pool where every mall, in every metro area 'used to be' in America.
We will get the oceans; and the marginal imperfect waves formed by nature back soon enough. 8)
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Next to the south side of the pier?
Sewer's or Saint Ann's?
Or down at Rincon?
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show them how fun is SUP (do your thing) and once they see you surf like Kelly (with a paddle) they know whats up 8)
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I am not sure if you have noticed but surfers in the Santa Cruz area have a reputation for being a$$holes. I have seen friends' tires slashed for surfing Davenport and watched surfers deliberately trying to injure an out of town kook trying to surf the Lane on a really below average day. I'm not sure if it's compensating for low self esteem, or just behaving like chimps without parents but there seems to be a real strong tribal reward for acting like a d__khead in Santa Cruz. In LA the problem got solved by law suits and massive police action. In the meantime I would just surf somewhere else. Life is too short. Eventually the spot will be overrun by SUPs and foils and god knows what , the surf industry makes much less money off of tiny shortboards and the central coast tweakers who ride them.
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One can sense the insecurity in people as soon as they boast how they have grown up in the area or they have surfed the area for 40 years, blah, blah blah,. as if that makes any difference.
It's planet earth, it doesn't matter where you are born, where you grew up and how many of the locals and their parents you've known over the decades. It's irrelevant.
I just got back from a trip to Panama and met another surfer on the plane home. Right away he was boasting about how he lives in San Clemente and surfs his local spot all the time. Who cares? I just wanted to talk about the fun waves in Panama but right away he had to ramble on about his home break. Too funny!
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It always seems like the baby wave surfers are the most territorial--people scrapping over knee-high slop. I surfed the Harbor this morning because everything else was such a mess. The biggest wave all morning might have been head high. It was fun early--just a few people out, and a generally pleasant vibe. a few foilers (Dave K, Shep, Kathy, etc.) and a few really good longboarders, one pretty good shortboarder, and me--wobbling around trying to get my knee to stop popping. There was a steady stream of foilers coming, but then about 9:00 a bunch of longboarders paddled out and sat right in the middle of the break--too far in for the bigger waves, too far out for the little shit. Just blocking.
First of all, I think if you show up at the crack of nine, you get what you get. Second, the blocking stuff is so lame, it ruins their surf time too. I just boiled through the pack a few times, just to practice my slalom moves. I think it's pretty stupid to get in front of a 230-pound moose on a barge of a SUP (my 10'4"), but I'm willing to play. Most of the foilers moved down, but I had enough of the dickheads and headed in.
While I was tieing my board down I was laughing with Shep about the idiots blocking the break, and Kalama said one of the longboarders got into it with Junya, who was foiling. I can't imagine getting on Junya's case about anything. First of all, he's one of the funniest, nicest guys I know. Second, he looks like a terrifying Hawaiian warrior complete with shark-tooth haole bopping club stashed in his car. I'd rather pick on a tiger shark.
So yeah. Dumbshits.
Better surf in better places will solve the problem for me. I'll leave the baby waves to the morons.
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I've had a coupe of days to think about this. Thanks for all the responses. How much do I owe the contributors for my counseling session here? He he.
I think Southwesterly nailed with, "Some things are what they are. If you want to play the game, thats the way it is." This spot has always had Ass_____ surfing there...probably always will. I certainly didn't want to bring down the good vibe of sup surfing that for the most part always exists. Truth is I sometimes choose to go for an exercise paddle away from surfers just because I don't want to battle with the crowds.
I'm fortunate that there a a few other places with less quality waves but areas that I can sup surf. This place, "Is what it is." I'll continue to sup surf there on occasion, try to remain positive and just deal with it.
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I just smile....and since the left side of my face doesn't really work all that well and I'm kind of ogerish looking to start with it looks like I want to rip off your face....works a charm.....:). So they leave me alone for the most part.
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Is this localism a west coat thing? I've never seem anything like this out east. Not that I'm a serious surfer or anything, but I've never even heard of this happening. I suppose there might be a few places where this happens, but I don't know where. I once got the stink eye from a surfer girl in Cape Cod, but she probably thought I was perving on her, me on my dorky 11' board.
Maybe it's because our waves are pretty small and you don't get those dramatic breaks, so there's nothing to fight over.
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Yes it's a So Cal thing. I was called out in Costa Rica and I told the guy "you're from So Cal aren't you". Hawaii and Aus have issues too, but not like here
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Being an jerk is never okay but at the same time don't want the jerk to ruin my time so I have developed some strategies when going to the better breaks.
1. Dawn Patrol... I will be the first one in the water. Locals tend to show up at the same time (8:00 in the summer maybe a little later in the winter) Get my 45 minutes or so of the waves to myself or with very few people. As the break gets crowded, I earn my stripes. I let a lot go, wait for the last wave in the set and mostly chat with the top dogs. Little by little they have gotten to know me. They know I will give up most of the waves and as I have become a better surfer they have respected my growth. Best part is I already have gotten my fair share because I'm in the water before the sun comes up.
2. Hang a little inside and just off peak.... If I can't get to dawn patrol or conditions won't permit I'll position myself in a spot I can get a late take off. I find that even the locals miss a lot of waves. I'm not on the peak but not far off. A quick turn and I'm not fighting anyone for a wave. There is an occasional pounding but I get a lot of waves this way even in the most crowded line-up. Nobody cares because i didn't take a wave from anyone. And the locals appreciate I stay out of their way.
3. Find a good local Sup shop....This has been my best strategy. On those really good days that fall on a weekend, I have two shops close enough by that have fought the good fight for me. I travel a little further but they have established SUP at their local break for me because they are SUP only or SUP priority shops. Except on the very best days the proners tend to find different spots.
I'm not sure I buy the whole territorial thing but it was obvious very early on for me that I didn't want the stress. If my choice is the best break dealing with crap or catching tons more waves in a less stressful less crowded line up. I choose the later every time. Bottom line, right wrong or indifferent, Sup has a long way to go in the better line-ups and we all have to do our part to gain our acceptance or we will all have the days when the jerk is the jerk!
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ha ha.... talk about timely!
Watching from the top of the hill today, just after my session....
I saw my proner buddy, Al, get totally snaked and run down TWICE by SUPs, in about 20 minutes.
Our breaks are very chill, so no drama at all, but I cringed big time.
Poor Al was hard pressed to get good waves, with all the SUPs out... then to get snaked twice, sucks. :o
I see this happen FAR more, surfer to surfer.... but SUP's are the ones that stick in a surfer's mind.
Look both ways before entering the Freeway! :)
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I feel your frustration. It's a tough call sometimes whether to chose the better (and more crowded) spot or go w/the lesser quality break. Luckily for me my home break where I'm "The Local" is not so high profile and breaks half decent. It gets crowded in the summer alot but in winter the cold thins out the crowd. Sometimes it's a tough call for me to hit the "Point" that all the surfers here cherish. If it's too crowded w/proners I will grab my longboard or fish, but for the most part it's cool to sup there.
Sorry you had such a bum sesh. Quite a drag when the proners start razzin' and snakin'. I had one of the top surfers at the point on a really good day steal a nice one from me. I just let it slide. I figure if I'm on sup I don't have much of an argument. And besides, by the time this dude got me I had already ridden a dozen beauties to myself. My brother saw it go down he was pretty much shaking his head questioning why the dude cut me off. Just gotta go w/the flow if you wanna sup IO guess.
Is it true there are no sups allowed in Honolua Bay? I don't think I've ever seen a picture of one there. I can kinda understand why, but man, that would be an awesome sup wave!
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Is this localism a west coat thing? I've never seem anything like this out east. Not that I'm a serious surfer or anything, but I've never even heard of this happening. I suppose there might be a few places where this happens, but I don't know where. I once got the stink eye from a surfer girl in Cape Cod, but she probably thought I was perving on her, me on my dorky 11' board.
Maybe it's because our waves are pretty small and you don't get those dramatic breaks, so there's nothing to fight over.
Localism is probably the worst in California, but it's alive and well in various areas around the world, so it's hardly unique to the west coast. Hawaii is pretty bad and same with Australia. Plenty of surfers I know who transplanted from Florida and New Jersey described some pretty heavy vibes at their local breaks. I don't have any surfing experience from the east coast so this is based on people I've talked to and forums I've read. And even n areas don't have issues with outsiders per se, there is a lot of animosity between shortboarders and longboarders, and throw SUP into the mix, downright nasty. I'm sure that varies area to area, break to break. Still, based on what I've read and guys I've talked to, I'm surprised to see a question like this.
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Fortunately, now there are foilers, who are taking the heat off us like SUPs took the heat off longboards. Foils went from "isn't that interesting and cool" to "those fuckers are dangerous" in record time. Foils are leaving the margins and the dinky waves out of the breaks and returning to the crowded peaks as soon as they get good enough. they can still leave and have fun in the slop, and when they drop in on you they are fifty yards away before you can yell at them, but the bigger peaks are more fun.
Here in Maui, the foils are a swarm. There were about twenty of them at the harbor today, and 18 were really good. All the better SUP surfers are now on foils. I think it's great, they don't really figure into anything. I assume they are going to go off and do their thing, and pass me high or low at will, so I feel free to drop in or snake them viciously. But the longboarders already hate them, though they bite their tongues since the foil guys and gals are the Alpha surfers. It's fun to watch.
Creek, that was one seriously clueless SUP surfer.
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I don't even bother going out if it's crowded. The wave count is so low when sharing waves that it's not even worth it.
We have a few choice breaks that I wouldn't think of surfing. Those spots are better left to the experts who have earned it. If everybody surfed there, it would ruin it for them. Those spots are usually crowded enough as it is. Too crowded for me to waste my time with. If you went there with a SUP and got in the way, you deserve to be treated badly.
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Surf4food, I was just asking because I'd never seen it. That's all.
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Localism is probably the worst in California, but it's alive and well in various areas around the world, so it's hardly unique to the west coast. Hawaii is pretty bad and same with Australia. Plenty of surfers I know who transplanted from Florida and New Jersey described some pretty heavy vibes at their local breaks.
Localism is the scourge of surfing. Any "Local" who thinks he has more of a right to surf a "His" (or her) spot than a visitor is sadly mistaken. (IMO)
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AMEN! (Surfercook)
Sorry just came from mass of the Immaculate Conception
JimK
Extreme Windsurfing
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Rye on the Rocks in NH, and Ruggles in Newport are the only spots in NE that are "closed" to SUPS. Monihans Dock in Narraganset is another. Reef and point breaks with take off zones the size of a pool table.
Knuckleheads who run over kids in surf schools are NOT welcome no matter what they are riding.
Haven't seen any sup foiling here YET!
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I don't remember where I saw this pic, but I saved it, it's chuckle worthy.
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Surf4food, I was just asking because I'd never seen it. That's all.
That's fine. I didn't mean it to come off as an attack (just in case it did).
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It happens in the Great Lakes too! ;D
All the same dynamics -- from overly serious aggro guys to mellow Is What it Is type attitudes -- exist in our little surf culture as well. I don't feed into the aggro stuff but I don't allow myself to be pushed around either. The most I have had to say to anyone is "I don't plan to give you any trouble out here and I would suggest you not worry too much about me either."
Our Lake waves are mushy and sloppy and a huge part of it is peak hunting anyway, so unless you are at one of the key protected spots it can be a bit of a spread out line up, thankfully. In the more protected spots where people have to commit some travel time tempers can be more touchy.
My nature is to want to be away from the crowd, even in lesser waves. I tend to not like the elbow to elbow mingling so I give room. I've been surfing here for over a decade and play around with everything, from shortboards, midlengths, longboard, long and short surf sups, a foil, and even surfing a downwind board from time to time. I tend to be all business around the water, in to what I am doing. I'm not there for the bro down, but I don't give anyone trouble either.
This guy and I finished this wave out together.
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It takes a long time to sort out even an ordinary break like Privates/Sharks with tides, wave moods etc. Crowds do seem to be getting worse, but evaluating the people out there has become part of the routine. Are they floating kafee klatch girls just dawdling and gossiping? Are they going straight in or down the line? Are they the "competitors" who treat every wave like an ego conquest? Are they the long boarders or short boarders? Are they clueless parents with kids right out in the middle of the surf freeway?
There are guys who are always in the "right" spot, and others who don't seem to register where the right spots are. I am kind of intermediate, I know where the right spots are about two thirds of the time now.
Some days it's pointless, some days not. Last Saturday, it was crowded with proner fleas and floating turds everywhere, but I still managed to get lots of waves and have a good session. I practice a lot of avoidance and courtesy, so I don't seem to have garnered crap for a while. The ancient and decrepit long boarders are pretty friendly because I don't get in their way when they come down the line at 25mph.
I find Pleasure Point worthless a lot of the time, between the expert grim reapers and the clueless groms, there is very little that is predictable, but I go down there once in a while anyway because it is pretty. I got a compliment from one of the surf instructors a while ago because he said I maintain awareness of my surroundings.
A SUP guy that I see out there usually starts trying at Steamer Lane, but generally bails and comes over to Sharks instead as he tells me. I have seen him get pulled off by the leash by a proner, as he does have an annoying habit of snaking and dropping in. I notice that some SUP guys who are more aggressive are masters of "hit and run". They will go up and down to the various breaks, scoop a few waves then go to another break without dwelling, thus avoiding too much aggro.
I think I prefer the chill zen approach, just accept whatever is out there, appreciate the environment, and accept what the wave gods grant or don't grant. I am not out there to brawl with tweakers and aggros. There are so many psychos and weirdos in Santa Cruz, anyway, and a lot of them are on boards. There are also a lot of really nice people, too.
There is one older guy who is particularly strange, because he is quite vocal. He actually follows you around, and snakes, then yells at you for dropping in. He does it on purpose, then goes on shore grousing loudly about all the a-holes. It's actually kind of funny, because he is all talk but lets his stream of consciousness loose to run free in loud verbiage.
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I have surfed in a few different states and countries and found that SoCal is by far the worst. Washington and Oregon I can't even remember one time being groused at by anyone. Hawaii, I have been cut off plenty by SUPs and longboards, but attitudes and vibes have always been good. Texas, everyone was lovely and nice. Canada, super nice folks in and out of the water. Mexico was just like SoCal, so I assume the people there were from SoCal.
Always the grousing or vibeing has been in small waves. Once the waves have some consequence, everyone is more focused on survival. Especially me!
This kind of thing happens in fishing, hunting, or many other outdoor sports. The number one way to solve an issue with someone is to walk, paddle, motor right up to them smile and say "Hi my name is (insert your name), I'm sorry about what happened lets figure this out." I had a guy yelling at me about hunting ducks in front of his property (I was on a public river). I drove my boat over, got out, walked up with a smile and introduced myself. Now I hunt on his property and have breakfast in his kitchen.
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I can only really speak for SoCal. I know what to expect at each break. Peak crowd times and average swells will attract the masses. I have my own secret spots where there are always good waves and one or two locals if even that. When it gets big, it's not usually a problem. I get plenty, and usually know everyone in the line-up. Once someone dicks with me, it's on. I'm 6'7 , 245 and only a few will actually ever say anything. I'll single them out and block them, out position them, and park myself uncomfortably close to them. It's like a chess game. They move, I move. They try to ruin my day, I will ruin theirs. They can follow me to my car, that's fine. Anyone that knows me personally knows I'm a big, mellow, happy guy, but I have a switch.
95% of the time, I will surf where I know there won't be a hassle. I never look for it, I avoid it.
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Rye on the Rocks in NH, and Ruggles in Newport are the only spots in NE that are "closed" to SUPS. Monihans Dock in Narraganset is another. Reef and point breaks with take off zones the size of a pool table.
Knuckleheads who run over kids in surf schools are NOT welcome no matter what they are riding.
Haven't seen any sup foiling here YET!
I would include Fox Hill along with Rye on the Rocks as being off limits although I have seen SUPs at both on rare occasions. I think there is a slow tolerance evolving. I surfed Rye on the Rocks on my Stun Gun one chest high day when no one was out so at least I can say I've done it.
I expect we might see a foil or two in 2018. There are some awesome spots that would be perfect for foiling just going unridden every day. I would love to be the first but I'm hesitant to buy one.
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They can’t ... I’ll SUP anywhere