Standup Zone Forum
Stand Up Paddle => Downwind and Racing => Topic started by: comeu on December 03, 2017, 07:27:49 PM
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Dec 3th was held “the biggest SUP race of the world” with 700 paddlers on the Seine river...
13km through Paris and tight finish between Bruno Hasulyo and Arthur Arutkin. Organizers gave one as the winner then changed one minute after...
Casper finished 3rd.
A.Arutkin is the official winner, Susak Molinero won the women’s race for the 2nd time.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171204/e144c989535788ccf8e6fe38ddebe1f4.jpg)
In fact I don’t really care about who win, both Arutkin and Hasulyo are great athletes, but it looks kind amateurish from the “biggest SUP
Race in the world “ .
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In the livestream it looked like Hasulyo's nose hit the line first, maybe half a meter before Arutkin's nose, but it was kind of hard to tell because the line was obscured behind a buoy arch, and the video camera wasn't looking directly from the side.
I reckon they owe it to the competitors to at least show the photo that they used to decide the photo finish.
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I imagine it was so cold that the organizers preferred to have their hands in their pockets instead of holding a camera.
So therefore everybody is a winner.
If they did publish a results list I sure can't find it. But I'm hardly surprised. It's France, they probably got busy on the afterparty.
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Bizarre....how can a race that big not use RFID tags or something and how do they not have a video camera focused with a clear view of the finish? Of course maybe they do and just haven't shown it yet. Racers tend to be very self centered and can be very demanding and un-sympathetic to glitches. Instantaneous results are the expectation. A race this big is going to generate controversy almost regardless of what you do so making sure you've done all you can to avoid to reduce the potential will save the organizers some stress..
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In the livestream it looked like Hasulyo's nose hit the line first, maybe half a meter before Arutkin's nose, but it was kind of hard to tell because the line was obscured behind a buoy arch, and the video camera wasn't looking directly from the side.
I reckon they owe it to the competitors to at least show the photo that they used to decide the photo finish.
You'd think half a metre is large enough to call it by eye without the need for a camera. You wouldn't pull that back with a late surge or being obscured.
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In the livestream it looked like Hasulyo's nose hit the line first, maybe half a meter before Arutkin's nose, but it was kind of hard to tell because the line was obscured behind a buoy arch, and the video camera wasn't looking directly from the side.
I reckon they owe it to the competitors to at least show the photo that they used to decide the photo finish.
You'd think half a metre is large enough to call it by eye without the need for a camera. You wouldn't pull that back with a late surge or being obscured.
The vid shows the line pretty clear especially if you factor in the perspective. The race organizers and committee should review this footage that is available. Hopefully there is a clear photo showing who crossed the line first. Bruno was def not a happy camper when he was told he came in second. But it did look like someone was on the line taking a photo or vid. Hmm?
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Watching the live feed from TotalSUP I would say that Bruno won it. If the organizers says that the winner is Arthur (and they have someone on the finish line), they should provide some sort of evidence. I the time difference between Bruno and Arthur is not real.
You can check the final sprint (and both athlets having to deal with several obstacles, specially Bruno) on this video: https://www.facebook.com/totalsupofficial/videos/698490903693669/ See from 1.22.00
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Yep. To keep the scoring honest they need to provide something -> otherwise the reputation of the race and race committee will be somewhat tarnished moving forward.
DH - "Unless there is a legitimate photo-finish that proves the result, this is a lie!"
PW - "Attention people, these people are scammers"
TDk - " if it's in france, then they will always see that a french guy can win... that's just how they are.."
Very strong harsh words from his brother and others. But does seem proper and prudent to come forward with a photo or video confirming who actually crossed the line first. Based on the vid it looks like Bruno still has reason to be pissed. The attitude of the race official on the boat after changing the result was interesting to say the least.
Would have expected -> we may need to take a bit of time to review as this looks too close to call. So will get back to you after we check the photos and video footage. Unfortunately did not get that. So Bruno may be SOL.
However since this live feed footage is floating in cyberspace for all to see -> it might stir the pot a bit. Strange things happen.
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You can check the final sprint (and both athlets having to deal with several obstacles, specially Bruno) on this video: https://www.facebook.com/totalsupofficial/videos/698490903693669/ See from 1.22.00
Even with the angle and obstacles, it looks pretty obvious to me that Bruno won that.
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Yes, from what we can see online, Bruno was 1st. Last year, it took 2 hours to the organizers of the Paris Crossing to decide who was 2 and 3, it was between Arthur and Martin Vitry...
add to that the fact that some pro-riders weren’t oriented in the current when the start was given...
They should simply make a fun race
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really?
http://my1.raceresult.com/86751/?lang=en#1_4AE457
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really?
http://my1.raceresult.com/86751/?lang=en#1_4AE457
One thing is for sure, in any sport whereby a photo finish takes place, it is always publicised for transparency. Examples of this I know of are 100m athletics, bunch sprint finishes at the Tour de France and horse derby's. In this case though, no evidence has been produced for the decision and if I were Starboard (and being the largest race on the planet) I would formally protest this. The fact that a french paddler has been awarded a controversial decision in a french race produces a suggestion of national favouritism so this should be ruled out through transparency by showing the photo.
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Their "bouncy castle" blow-up finish gate is nicely visible for racers but not practical for photo finishes. A GoPro duct taped on the inside (with WiFi relay to a PC) would easily solve the problem.
In other words a camera is useless unless in-line with the finish.
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I think that race wasn't close enough that the winner and loser wouldn't know who they were.
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that's how they roll in France!
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With nothing so far to back up the race results. It makes the race a joke. Maybe this is true then.
PW - "Attention people, these people are scammers"
TDk - " if it's in france, then they will always see that a french guy can win... that's just how they are.."
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Wow!....just watched the video......no question the guy on the blue starboard won. I'm assuming that was Bruno the guy they are saying was second. Definite rip off.
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This was what the race official said on the boat after the "official" result was changed from Bruno in first -> to Bruno in second.
"You can kill me I don't care I don't even know you ..... But at least he is second which is not bad actually. Hahahaha!"
So diplomatic. Bravo. ::)
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This was what the race official said on the boat after the "official" result was changed from Bruno in first -> to Bruno in second.
"You can kill me I don't care I don't even know you ..... But at least he is second which is not bad actually. Hahahaha!"
So diplomatic. Bravo. ::)
I got involved with the debate on facebook. It appears the timing chip is the rationale for the switched placing. However, this might be an error if the chip measures point to point timing or start gun to finish line timing (not the same thing). Frequent calls to produce the photo is falling on deaf ears.
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Who benefits from this race? Where's the money go? For the organizers to act as they are in the face of evidence to the contrary is weird. Also pretty poor planning to have the Sunday afternoon paddlers finishing the same time as the elites....not a very clean finish and one wrong move by someone in pink could make or break the race.
Chips should measure start gun to finish line unless it's a time trial...which I doubt. The only way I could see Bruno not being the winner is if the chip reader was slightly behind/beyond the blow up finish line. Bruno was clearly ahead at the front of the float but it looked like he was losing ground as they went through.
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When paddlers cross a finish line, the clock stops when the chip physically crosses the line, instead of when the front of the SUP breaks the plane. This means that paddlers are being scored based on when their chip first crosses the line, instead of when their SUP first crosses the line. While it is instant and convenient, the margin of error is far too large. Too much can happen in one one-hundredth of a second to risk it.
So the timing chip probs did not line up with the finish line. Which kinda contradicts the point of a photo finish. Makes the blow up doll finish line arbitrary. More than likely the photo or vid at the finish line was Bruno in first. So still seems like a joke. The level of timing sophistication leaves something to be desired. Especially if wanting to be taken seriously at the Olympics or whatever. But most paddlers round here could care less anyways who won.
"Participants may be equipped with a "tracker". In this case, wearing the tracker under the bib or ankle is mandatory."
"The jury is made up of 3 members of the 2017 Nautic SUP Paris Crossing Organization. It will meet after any protest by the Race Direction and / or a Competitor."
"The jury's decisions are at its discretion and without appeal."
https://www.salonnautiqueparis.com/user/pages/02.visiter/animations-salon/nautic-sup-paris-crossing/avis-de-course-2017/Avis%20de%20course%20NAUTIC%20SUP%20PARIS%20CROSSING%202017%20-%20V2.pdf
http://www.finishlynx.com/packages/rowing-and-padding-timing-systems/
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Sorry to say that but I am not surprised that a French rider was given a better position by French organizers. They are good at that.
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Sorry ...They are good at that.
When I started that topic, I was just curious to know what you guys thought about it, now I think the race wasn’t properly organized and I seriously doubt Arthur was first.
Then, I’m one of “them”, I’m French, do you seriously believe I’m good at cheating? I checked results for previous years, couldn’t find results for 2009 but then in 2010, 2011, 2012 Eric Terrien (F), 2013 Leo Nika (Italy), 2014 Casper Steinfath (Denmark), 2015 Titouan Puyo (NC), 2016 Bruno Hasulyo (Hungary), Arthur Arutkin (F). Do you want women results? O. Piana won in 2015, then Susak Molinero won last two races.
That race isn’t properly organized, but please avoid national bias.
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Arthur Arutkin is a really fair-play, gentlemanly, stand-up guy. I’d like to hear his take on all this. I’d guess that if he felt Bruno was ahead of him he’d speak up and say so.
Titouan, Olivia, Eric, Arthur as well as their younger team-mates are some of the kindest, humble, approachable, good sport and fair-play riders you will ever meet in any sport.
Sure, the French get all cocorico ("cock-a-doodle-doo") about their athletes. Usually done all in good humor however, not by cheating. The race committee is obviously lame and we are right to ask for justification, justice and evidence. Yet it’s a bit of a stretch to take judgement based on an off angle video and also a bit of a wide brush stroke getting used. Especially off base if you’d ever had the pleasure to meet one of their SUP athetes.
Bossman from SupRacer was there. He always knows everything that goes down. Pinging Bossman... please enlighten us.
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Can say have been involved in races where there has been bias. Sometimes very subtle and sometimes very obvious. Where racers you have thought to be very honest and upright and honorable. But when it goes in their favor by some race committee mistake or whatever -> they willingly accept a win or an award. They turn a blind eye and take full credit. They do not say -> Hey on the line he was ahead by a foot or so. So would not expect any change.
The angle perspective favors the closer racer. But in the vid the racer in the back is closer to the line. If Bruno was even he would be farther back. More parallel to the blow up line perspective. Basic geometry and angles.
All Arthur has to do is say -> he does not know if Bruno was ahead. And leave the result up to the race committee. BS happens. Not many would be so vocal if it were not so obvious. It is pretty obvious. But it is what it is. The result is final. The only way it could be changed is if Arthur came forward and said -> at the line Bruno was ahead so he should get the win. But seriously doubt that. The win right now is his. The results clearly show that. So he won. Right? ::)
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Sorry ...They are good at that.
That race isn’t properly organized, but please avoid national bias.
On a bit bigger bias scale -> this is possible on a national basis. Puts this little SUP result into perspective. But still does send the wrong message unless a photo finish is coughed up. So not good for the nation and organizers. But all will be forgotten by next year. Arthur will be first according to the results sheet.
"In 2010, the Russian team had a desperately uninspiring performance at the Vancouver Olympics, winning just three golds. Perhaps the most impressive statistic was that the then sports minister, Vitaly Mutko, racked up expenses claims for 97 breakfasts. Faced with the prospect of an embarrassment on home ice in Sochi, the then-president, Dmitry Medvedev, it is claimed ordered a total overhaul of the system. According to the whistleblower Grigory Rodchenkov, the task was to win at Sochi at all cost, even if that involved flagrant, systematic cheating."
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/dec/10/russia-reaction-winter-olympics-ban-sochi-2014-putin-mutko
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I did a large race where we all had ankle chips. You had start through the surf to do 4 laps around the buoy's, then back to the beach and run to the finish. After the second lap I realized I was in the lead and lapping people. One of the corporate heads of a sup company and his bro group wasn't counting laps and I hear the announcer yelling out "here comes ..... in the lead"! I'm about 2/3's around my last lap. There was no one in my board class in front of me. I finish 4th. I'm thinking the chip will be the proof. Nope. They crossed the finish first. My first experience with the who's who running the SUP show. It really didn't surprise me that much. Buoy turn littered zig zag races suck anyways. Straight out.. who can do 6 or 12 miles the fastest.
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Anyone else think that's a horrible design for a finish line? The sides obscure the line. There's no way to film it at a right angle. They need to put the line across outside either before or after those supports.
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