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Stand Up Paddle => SUP General => Topic started by: 805StandUp on December 01, 2017, 06:49:39 AM

Title: Mo Freitas leaving Focus...
Post by: 805StandUp on December 01, 2017, 06:49:39 AM
In my news feed this morning...  https://www.facebook.com/focus.sup/videos/576733349334051/

And Bluefins have been on sale for $1449 on their website.
Title: Re: Mo Freitas leaving Focus...
Post by: BrownSugah on December 01, 2017, 12:04:52 PM
isnt Focus kinda of going under anyways? I ve seen alot of sales from them and overall kind of less people talking about them
Title: Re: Mo Freitas leaving Focus...
Post by: paddlejones on December 01, 2017, 12:30:09 PM
It's got to be a tough business to forecast sales of a product that you have to order 8+months in advance and pay for it by the container full when it hits the docks in China Etc...

Best thing would be that all shops would have to pre-order at the outdoor retailer shows & surf expo, with manufacturer's having minimal extra off the shelf stock & leave the rest to custom board orders.

Bummer to see these Brands struggle

Title: Re: Mo Freitas leaving Focus...
Post by: exiled on December 01, 2017, 12:36:18 PM
It will be interesting to see where he lands. I think Body Glove has been his biggest sponsor, and Pat Rawson has always done his boards, so I don't know that he needs to sign with any specific sup company.
Title: Re: Mo Freitas leaving Focus...
Post by: NEplay on December 01, 2017, 04:41:37 PM
I think Mo Freitas is one of our sports biggest stars. I certainly am a fan of both Mo and his boards- I have a 12'6 Bluefin which is fragile but agile and a Rawson 8'4. I am amazed that only two comments have been posted to this thread, now three. I think SUP is really cooling off. And that is okay as it will never go away, just become a niche, like windsurfing or open water rowing. Thoughts?
Title: Re: Mo Freitas leaving Focus...
Post by: TallDude on December 01, 2017, 04:55:42 PM
Hopefully he didn't get a real job. That would be sad.
Title: Re: Mo Freitas leaving Focus...
Post by: supsurf-tw on December 01, 2017, 05:47:41 PM
 He may be finding that a pro supper is a difficult career for long term so maybe hitting the books or something?
Title: Re: Mo Freitas leaving Focus...
Post by: Bean on December 01, 2017, 08:35:16 PM
It's sometimes difficult to maintain your focus...
Title: Re: Mo Freitas leaving Focus...
Post by: NEplay on December 02, 2017, 05:06:35 AM
Hitting the books is never a bad thing.
Title: Re: Mo Freitas leaving Focus...
Post by: addapost on December 02, 2017, 07:15:59 AM
I think SUP is really cooling off. And that is okay as it will never go away, just become a niche, like windsurfing or open water rowing. Thoughts?
My understanding from a good friend deep in the industry is that paid sponsorships to pro athletes have seen their peak, those days are over. Mo is a fantastic athlete but companies can't afford those sponsorships and the return does not match the investment. Basically the people who buy the most boards (low end and cheap) have no clue who Mo Freitas (et al) is and no interest in surfing or racing. Sponsored athletes have very little to no effect on the vast majority of board sales. Smart companies are focusing on "free" local ambassadors who do have an effect on sales on the grass roots level. Even the 'good old days' of the brand ambassador have seen their peak. Savvy companies are scaling down what they offer their ambassadors and are requiring more output in the form of social media postings. In the past an ambassador might receive 2 or 3 free boards a year. Now it may be the case where an ambassador receives only one free board or even less- only steep purchase discounts. Still that investment makes more business sense versus sponsoring an athlete that the vast majority of buyers have no awareness of or interest in. I would bet a paycheck that someone like Supthecreek has created more sales volume for their company than any sponsored pro. If I were a young sponsored SUP racer or surfer and I wanted to be able to eat in 5 years I would definitely go back to school.
Title: Re: Mo Freitas leaving Focus...
Post by: FloridaWindSUP on December 02, 2017, 07:52:17 AM
I think Mo Freitas is one of our sports biggest stars. I certainly am a fan of both Mo and his boards- I have a 12'6 Bluefin which is fragile but agile and a Rawson 8'4. I am amazed that only two comments have been posted to this thread, now three. I think SUP is really cooling off. And that is okay as it will never go away, just become a niche, like windsurfing or open water rowing. Thoughts?

SUP might be cooling off at the business level as the market gets saturated and novelty fades, but there still seem to be a lot of boards on the water. I don't think SUP is going to crash as hard as windsurfing did, because it remains easily accessible and appealing at the entry level, unlike windsurfing, which requires fanatic enthusiasm to get people through the complexity and frustration of learning.

The pyramid of SUP participation has a wide bottom of low-key dabblers, under a modest mid-level of avid paddlers, under a tiny pinnacle of pros, and I think that structure is pretty stable. I hope so, at least.
Title: Re: Mo Freitas leaving Focus...
Post by: robon on December 02, 2017, 08:26:30 AM
I had been paddling for a few years and didn't really know who the best racers were. Even at it's peak, racing was just a small niche in this sport and not responsible for a big stake in the market share. The vast majority of paddlers don't own race boards and couldn't tell you who Baxter or Freitas are.

It seems the sport has peaked and may be in a slight decline, but it's definitely still growing inland. 
Title: Re: Mo Freitas leaving Focus...
Post by: PonoBill on December 02, 2017, 09:02:11 AM
I doubt that sponsoring racers ever delivered ROI. It's a way of saying "we're number one" to the small number of people who care. And it's fun, so what the heck. But SUP sales are broad how, and there's not much differentiation. Now it's managing the business aspects and effective marketing. I'm still seeing lots of advertising in SUP magazines. Can't help but wonder who is doing the marketing, and can they do math. There must still be people who buy magazines--especially special interest stuff. I bought a copy of Octane before I got on the plane a few days ago, but used my Kindle for the flight instead after realizing once again that it's still inconvenient to deal with dead trees,
Title: Re: Mo Freitas leaving Focus...
Post by: eastbound on December 02, 2017, 09:18:30 AM
always like mo's surf style a lot...possibly my favorite sup porn star
Title: Re: Mo Freitas leaving Focus...
Post by: Luc Benac on December 02, 2017, 09:37:36 AM
I had been paddling for a few years and didn't really know who the best racers were. Even at it's peak, racing was just a small niche in this sport and not responsible for a big stake in the market share. The vast majority of paddlers don't own race boards and couldn't tell you who Baxter or Freitas are.
It seems the sport has peaked and may be in a slight decline, but it's definitely still growing inland.

Local celebrities and often friends at local events might do more, along with a good distribution network that makes boards available for testing, for the sale of a brand.
Here One SUP developed very quickly taking some market shares from Starboard. There is some appeal to a niche brand very present locally even if their board are not in the hands of teh best international racers. Sometime you take what is there rather than what needs to be sourced long in advance sight unseen.
Title: Re: Mo Freitas leaving Focus...
Post by: viatormundi on December 02, 2017, 09:52:18 AM
This is exactly what is happening in Europe. The pro riders who jump from brand to brand do not help much in sales but those modest enthusiasts who share their enthusiasm contribute more to the brands in general.
I think SUP is really cooling off. And that is okay as it will never go away, just become a niche, like windsurfing or open water rowing. Thoughts?
My understanding from a good friend deep in the industry is that paid sponsorships to pro athletes have seen their peak, those days are over. Mo is a fantastic athlete but companies can't afford those sponsorships and the return does not match the investment. Basically the people who buy the most boards (low end and cheap) have no clue who Mo Freitas (et al) is and no interest in surfing or racing. Sponsored athletes have very little to no effect on the vast majority of board sales. Smart companies are focusing on "free" local ambassadors who do have an effect on sales on the grass roots level. Even the 'good old days' of the brand ambassador have seen their peak. Savvy companies are scaling down what they offer their ambassadors and are requiring more output in the form of social media postings. In the past an ambassador might receive 2 or 3 free boards a year. Now it may be the case where an ambassador receives only one free board or even less- only steep purchase discounts. Still that investment makes more business sense versus sponsoring an athlete that the vast majority of buyers have no awareness of or interest in. I would bet a paycheck that someone like Supthecreek has created more sales volume for their company than any sponsored pro. If I were a young sponsored SUP racer or surfer and I wanted to be able to eat in 5 years I would definitely go back to school.
Title: Re: Mo Freitas leaving Focus...
Post by: robon on December 02, 2017, 09:55:51 AM
I had been paddling for a few years and didn't really know who the best racers were. Even at it's peak, racing was just a small niche in this sport and not responsible for a big stake in the market share. The vast majority of paddlers don't own race boards and couldn't tell you who Baxter or Freitas are.
It seems the sport has peaked and may be in a slight decline, but it's definitely still growing inland.

Local celebrities and often friends at local events might do more, along with a good distribution network that makes boards available for testing, for the sale of a brand.
Here One SUP developed very quickly taking some market shares from Starboard. There is some appeal to a niche brand very present locally even if their board are not in the hands of teh best international racers. Sometime you take what is there rather than what needs to be sourced long in advance sight unseen.

I agree that distribution and knowledge can be increased at local and larger events, which can help prop up niche brands, and potentially increase sales of larger names as well. I definitely became more interested in the sport after rubbing shoulders with a couple of the bigger names at an event, so it's not without value. With that said, the sales of the race boards and race influences remains a tiny market share for overall sales. Sometimes you have to wait months just to get said board, and the price, usage, and fragility make them a tiny market. I have no idea of exact ratios, but it has to be an easy 50 to 1  (actually maybe 100 to 1 or higher) for overall and touring designs compared to the sales of race/niche boards in North America alone. Growth likely will remain inland where it hasn't quite peaked, and growth will also remain with the touring and overall designs, with increased inflatable sales.

I have noticed an uptick in racing, DW boards, and displacement/hybrid designs in the West Kootenays, through to the Okanagan/Kelowna, and to the coast, but still just a teeny, tiny percentage compared to those on all around designs, and more recently inflatables.
Title: Re: Mo Freitas leaving Focus...
Post by: surf4food on December 02, 2017, 10:29:25 AM
^^^

Which brings up something I said in another thread.  I think the companies should start pushing raceboards as fun craft to paddle even if not using them for actual racing.  I remember demo(ing) a Naish Javelin 14' and it was an amazing feeling.  If only I had the space for it. as
Title: Re: Mo Freitas leaving Focus...
Post by: addapost on December 02, 2017, 01:01:02 PM
^^^

Which brings up something I said in another thread.  I think the companies should start pushing raceboards as fun craft to paddle even if not using them for actual racing.  I remember demo(ing) a Naish Javelin 14' and it was an amazing feeling.  If only I had the space for it. as
I've stayed out of the racing discussions here but I will say this, in my opinion the reason racing is in decline has almost nothing to do with board length or sponsored pros, or race classifications or other issues that are thrown around here. The primary reason racing is in decline, in my opinion, is that the decent, dedicated race boards are stupidly expensive. Most normal people are not going to spend $2000 to $3000 for a piece of foam with some fiber glass wrapped around it.
Title: Re: Mo Freitas leaving Focus...
Post by: Eagle on December 02, 2017, 02:04:59 PM
"The primary reason racing is in decline, in my opinion, is that the decent, dedicated race boards are stupidly expensive. Most normal people are not going to spend $2000 to $3000 for a piece of foam with some fiber glass wrapped around it."

Gotta agree.  From our perspective -> is silly to pay top $ for something that depreciates so quickly.  Even paying 50+% less than MSRP is way too much.  But yeah most peeps have zero clue who Baxter is.  But interestingly some know who Lenny is.  Not his name -> but that guy who rides on a SUP foil.  Zero for Freitas or zero for Steinfath.

But SUP is nice def to improve balance.  Helps my skiing and SB loads.  So would agree that raceboards should be marketed maybe for the non-racer as well.  That is exactly why we bought our AS23.  No doubt works a charm.  ;)
Title: Re: Mo Freitas leaving Focus...
Post by: addapost on December 02, 2017, 02:21:18 PM
Yep, you are seeing gently used boards being sold for a fraction of their new purchase price. The number that I keep seeing for ANY used board- race, surf, el cheapo generalist, etc. is about $700. To me that is what a board should cost. I am lucky, I have been in the industry as an instructor for a good sized retailer so I have never had to buy at full price and I generally just borrow any demo in the fleet. If I didn't have an in I would NEVER spend full price for a board. I simply cannot wrap my head around a $3000 race board or even a $1600 surf sup. Never mind having several or buying new every year. But that's just me. Well, and everyone I know.
Title: Re: Mo Freitas leaving Focus...
Post by: Luc Benac on December 02, 2017, 02:28:42 PM
Yep, you are seeing gently used boards being sold for a fraction of their new purchase price. The number that I keep seeing for ANY used board- race, surf, el cheapo generalist, etc. is about $700. To me that is what a board should cost. I am lucky, I have been in the industry as an instructor for a good sized retailer so I have never had to buy at full price and I generally just borrow any demo in the fleet. If I didn't have an in I would NEVER spend full price for a board. I simply cannot wrap my head around a $3000 race board or even a $1600 surf sup. Never mind having several or buying new every year. But that's just me. Well, and everyone I know.

Somebody has to, otherwise where would we find our used boards to purchase :-) I love and strongly encourage everybody that is buying a new model every year, it feeds the used performance board market and helps everybody else....I sometime think that for us on the Canadian West Coast, a drive down to SoCal would probably pay for itself if you want to buy a couple of nice boards.
Title: Re: Mo Freitas leaving Focus...
Post by: supthecreek on December 02, 2017, 02:37:59 PM
Industry slowdown may be as simple as this:

When many of us got into SUP, everyone was riding a longer, high volume board.

SUP mirrored the "shortboard revolution" from late 60's to early 70's...
every week, a new shape came out and you just HAD to have the latest tech.

Most of us went through boards on a regular basis, as the tech and we, improved.

Shapes and tech have leveled out and found a "happy place"
We no longer have to chase the latest, greatest shape.....

We have found great boards that suit us, and we won't be left in the dust, if we don't buy new every year.

I'd say that SUP is maturing.
Now that the R&D curve is leveling off, you better offer great product at reasonable prices to attract buyers.

Title: Re: Mo Freitas leaving Focus...
Post by: Luc Benac on December 02, 2017, 02:50:11 PM
Shapes and tech have leveled out and found a "happy place"
We have found great boards that suit us, and we won't be left in the dust, if we don't buy new every year.
Now that the R&D curve is leveling off, you better offer great product at reasonable prices to attract buyers.

That is a good point. I have found that even the excitement of looking at a new board has somewhat faded against the peace of mind of using the favourite trusted boards best adapted to the most usual conditions I paddle in. And yes blonking CAD $3,000~4,000 or even more on a new board has just become a non starter.
Title: Re: Mo Freitas leaving Focus...
Post by: addapost on December 02, 2017, 03:01:47 PM
Industry slowdown may be as simple as this:

When many of us got into SUP, everyone was riding a longer, high volume board.

SUP mirrored the "shortboard revolution" from late 60's to early 70's...
every week, a new shape came out and you just HAD to have the latest tech.

Most of us went through boards on a regular basis, as the tech and we, improved.

Shapes and tech have leveled out and found a "happy place"
We no longer have to chase the latest, greatest shape.....

We have found great boards that suit us, and we won't be left in the dust, if we don't buy new every year.

I'd say that SUP is maturing.
Now that the R&D curve is leveling off, you better offer great product at reasonable prices to attract buyers.
Even though I have never paid more than wholesale on a board I gotta say you have me very likely to plop down the $1600 for that Creek model of yours. lol
Title: Re: Mo Freitas leaving Focus...
Post by: supsurf-tw on December 02, 2017, 04:42:04 PM

Shapes and tech have leveled out and found a "happy place"
We no longer have to chase the latest, greatest shape.....

 
We've come to a place where design is pretty much where it's gonna be for awhile and boards are much more durable than say, the latest potato chip 5-8 prone board. People have found what works for them and will most likely just hold on to what they have for quite awhile rather than going out and spending more on a new board. Plus with so many great used boards at less than half the cost of new it's no surprise that sales are down.
Title: Re: Mo Freitas leaving Focus...
Post by: NEplay on December 03, 2017, 05:02:51 AM
I certainly agree with all of the above. If I was confident a new race board would be be competitive and match the conditions I paddle in I may step and pay $2500 for a race board every couple of years but all my race boards have been ultra fragile and this makes me crazy.
Title: Re: Mo Freitas leaving Focus...
Post by: TallDude on December 03, 2017, 10:38:23 AM
I walk into a SUP shop now and compare what I already have with what they are selling. First off, I'm way to picky when it comes to throwing down some cash. I scan the racks, looking at the price tags. I find something interesting, but I already have a similar board. All the sudden it's less interesting. I have a piece of foam on the racks in my shop that has almost been carved into 3 different shapes. I just keep surfing the boards I already have. More than likely it will replace my existing 9' SUP that is on it's last leg. Same shape with a little tweak to the tail. As was said, there are so many good used deals out there.  Kayadogg is going to be wishing he was back in SoCal for X-mas.

https://orangecounty.craigslist.org/spo/d/hobie-sup-fast-strong-and/6389784172.html

https://orangecounty.craigslist.org/spo/d/riviera-racing-sup-paddleboard/6368943073.html

https://orangecounty.craigslist.org/spo/d/stand-up-paddleboard-sup/6391785650.html

https://orangecounty.craigslist.org/spo/d/14-ft-sup/6390226704.html

https://orangecounty.craigslist.org/spo/d/brawner-surf-supcustom-like/6382776613.html
Title: Re: Mo Freitas leaving Focus...
Post by: Eagle on December 03, 2017, 11:34:11 AM
$4400 plus 12% tax down to $3295 -> down to $2000 with zero tax.  Virtually brand new and was going to buy for myself.  Then thought about how many times we get flat water conditions in the ocean and said nada.  But woulda been a hoot to paddle fast on.  The 21.5 was so wicked slippery it was silly not fair vs my splashy fat tub AS23. 

So yeah def super good deals to be had -> and very little reason to ever pay MSRP for mega overpriced pieces of cheap foam with a bit of carbon thrown in.  Ex. 2018 Maliko with a carbon strip.  At least wrap the whole board in a carbon sandwich like the Sprint or All Star.  Crazy their current marketing spin is -> heavier is better for their primo race board.  Has zero or very little effect on speed.  So carbon is a waste and obsolete for racing already.  Haha.  Right.  ::)

Comparatively can buy a new pair of top rated powder skis never mounted on CL and slap on a pair of new top quality bindings for less than $500 all in.  Hmm?  Seasons pass cost $450.  So $1000.  Gotta wonder bout that.  Skiing is way more fun.  SB way more fun in powder.  Have already paid off my pass last month.  Compared to $4400 plus taxes for a new SUP race board.  What a joke.  No wonder.
Title: Re: Mo Freitas leaving Focus...
Post by: kayadogg on December 03, 2017, 01:11:20 PM
Kayadogg is going to be wishing he was back in SoCal for X-mas.

https://orangecounty.craigslist.org/spo/d/hobie-sup-fast-strong-and/6389784172.html

https://orangecounty.craigslist.org/spo/d/riviera-racing-sup-paddleboard/6368943073.html

https://orangecounty.craigslist.org/spo/d/stand-up-paddleboard-sup/6391785650.html

https://orangecounty.craigslist.org/spo/d/14-ft-sup/6390226704.html

https://orangecounty.craigslist.org/spo/d/brawner-surf-supcustom-like/6382776613.html

Haha, I still peruse the OC and San Diego CL ads pretty regularly. It’s actually been nice to not have the used board market in New England, makes me much happier with the boards my wife and I have. Now I’ve developed a problem with buying/selling/acquiring high-end putters. I just placed an order for a custom DH89 with Byron Morgan (surfer & legendary putter maker out of Huntington Beach) last night. Eerie how similar the process is to ordering a custom board. Putter boxes are much easier to hide than the box that a 14’ Blackfish arrives in.
Title: Re: Mo Freitas leaving Focus...
Post by: TallDude on December 03, 2017, 04:37:48 PM
Kayadogg is going to be wishing he was back in SoCal for X-mas.

https://orangecounty.craigslist.org/spo/d/hobie-sup-fast-strong-and/6389784172.html

https://orangecounty.craigslist.org/spo/d/riviera-racing-sup-paddleboard/6368943073.html

https://orangecounty.craigslist.org/spo/d/stand-up-paddleboard-sup/6391785650.html

https://orangecounty.craigslist.org/spo/d/14-ft-sup/6390226704.html

https://orangecounty.craigslist.org/spo/d/brawner-surf-supcustom-like/6382776613.html

Haha, I still peruse the OC and San Diego CL ads pretty regularly. It’s actually been nice to not have the used board market in New England, makes me much happier with the boards my wife and I have. Now I’ve developed a problem with buying/selling/acquiring high-end putters. I just placed an order for a custom DH89 with Byron Morgan (surfer & legendary putter maker out of Huntington Beach) last night. Eerie how similar the process is to ordering a custom board. Putter boxes are much easier to hide than the box that a 14’ Blackfish arrives in.
Funny thing, I've started playing golf again after not playing for almost 8 years. I've played since I was a kid, but quit playing when I got into SUP racing. My son made the high school golf team, so I've been playing with him a lot lately. My old custom Mizuno MP-14 blades are harder to hit for me these day, so I just had a set of the Mizuno JPX 900 Forged built for a very talldude. They are really nice and easy to hit, but still have that blade look. My 15 year old out drives me now. He hits his 8 iron 170 yds! Little shit.
Title: Re: Mo Freitas leaving Focus...
Post by: surfafrica on December 03, 2017, 06:08:31 PM
Comparatively can buy a new pair of top rated powder skis never mounted on CL and slap on a pair of new top quality bindings for less than $500 all in.  Hmm?  Seasons pass cost $450.  So $1000.  Gotta wonder bout that.  Skiing is way more fun.  SB way more fun in powder.  Have already paid off my pass last month.  Compared to $4400 plus taxes for a new SUP race board.  What a joke.  No wonder.

Comparing flat water SUP with skiing and snowboarding is like comparing canoeing to mountain biking.
Title: Re: Mo Freitas leaving Focus...
Post by: Eagle on December 03, 2017, 10:08:17 PM
Haha.  Point was $4400+ is ridiculous for MSRP with an end of season price drop of 25%.  Then further a price drop used within the year to sub 50%.  That is massive depreciation and to a certain degree reflects the value of the product on the open market.  Not many are silly enough to buy the more expensive carbon race boards @ full price.

Most everyone we know buy used or demo or end of season discounted or gets a pro deal because of this.  No one we know is prepared to pay full price @ $4400+ for a piece of foam that can easily dent or crack or snap.

Comparatively skiing and snowboarding hard goods are so much more durable.  Even many years old -> they still perform like new and still look in really good condition for the amount of abuse they have taken.  Comparing cost and durability and fun factor is what we do when comparing sports we are very active in.  Even if they are very different activities.
Title: Re: Mo Freitas leaving Focus...
Post by: Eagle on December 03, 2017, 10:12:01 PM
I've stayed out of the racing discussions here but I will say this, in my opinion the reason racing is in decline has almost nothing to do with board length or sponsored pros, or race classifications or other issues that are thrown around here. The primary reason racing is in decline, in my opinion, is that the decent, dedicated race boards are stupidly expensive. Most normal people are not going to spend $2000 to $3000 for a piece of foam with some fiber glass wrapped around it.

As noted already.  This is very true IMO as well.
Title: Re: Mo Freitas leaving Focus...
Post by: surfafrica on December 04, 2017, 10:37:11 AM
This might be a bit of a tangent.....

For me, as a guy who came to SUP from surfing, minus my exposure to SUP racing from this site (which has been cool to learn about), SUP racing has always fallen into the same category to me as canoe racing.  I remember there was talk of which governing body should umbrella SUP.  Unless SUP remained independent, it seems obvious to me that SUP surfing would fall to the surfing bodies and SUP racing would land with the canoe/kayakers.  Even in the distance and/or shore break races where guys catch some lumps, it still looks pretty similar to the other paddle racing sports.  For me (just my perspective...I'm sure others feel differently), flat water SUP and racing is a very different pursuit than SUP surfing. I know guys like Kai and some of the others are really cross-disciplined when it comes to SUP, but I think if the sport really matured (like Olympic level stuff with lots of participants), to really hit the elite levels, guys would have to focus on one or the other (I'm sure some disagree).  You don't see guys on the WSL aiming to make an Olympic swim team.

Bringing it back to Mo, I see him as a surfer first and foremost (but maybe I'm wrong).  I look at his style and gear as I would someone on the WSL (I try to emulate it all in my mind, but fail miserably on the water).  I've definitely looked at board progression that those guys are pushing.  But have been equally influenced (actually more influenced) by shapers (Kirk from L41, Dave from Infinity, Kyle from Kronos) and guys on this forum.

With the sponsorship stuff, at the surfing level, I just can't see how it would work.  Signature boards don't seem like much of a thing in SUP surfing (though, not really in prone either...unlike snowboarding or skateboarding), and unlike the prone surfers, the market size for SUP culture (clothes, etc) is pretty much non-existent.  Though I guess the pros do expose the brands (I wouldn't have heard of Focus if it wasn't for Mo).  I've always wondered what the ROI on sponsorship there would be. 

When I watch this vid, I keep thinking to myself "for the love of god guys, stand up!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqn0Y9qwzws

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bZ9efcLiCU
Title: Re: Mo Freitas leaving Focus...
Post by: PonoBill on December 04, 2017, 10:49:08 AM
Mo and Zane are my two favorite surfers to watch. Lots of great ones, but Mo and Zane add a lot of originality and style. Seeing someone knock the top off a wave, again and again, gets old quickly.
Title: Re: Mo Freitas leaving Focus...
Post by: surfafrica on December 04, 2017, 11:44:28 AM
Mo and Zane are my two favorite surfers to watch. Lots of great ones, but Mo and Zane add a lot of originality and style. Seeing someone knock the top off a wave, again and again, gets old quickly.

I totally agree.  I haven't watched Zane as much, but really enjoy watching Mo. His style and lines are my favorite. The first time I saw a clip of him, I freaked out.  It was before I was pushing for smaller boards and he opened my eyes on what SUP surfing could be.

Another thought on the sponsorship thing....  The demographics of SUP tilts towards geezer (compared to snowboarding, skateboard, or surfing).  And as geezers, we just aren't as influenced by pros selling gear or lifestyle.  In the 80s and early 90s, you could bet sure as shit that I was riding the skateboard or snowboard of my favorite riders, and was sporting a shirt of one of their brands. Probably when I hit my 20s, that completely dropped off. 

Now for some Mo (go to 55m 40s):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9_Zg-zlgmA&t=55m40s
Title: Re: Mo Freitas leaving Focus...
Post by: supdiscobay on December 04, 2017, 02:37:10 PM
I've stayed out of the racing discussions here but I will say this, in my opinion the reason racing is in decline has almost nothing to do with board length or sponsored pros, or race classifications or other issues that are thrown around here. The primary reason racing is in decline, in my opinion, is that the decent, dedicated race boards are stupidly expensive. Most normal people are not going to spend $2000 to $3000 for a piece of foam with some fiber glass wrapped around it.

As noted already.  This is very true IMO as well.

I believe that the cost to enter an event has equally as much impact on the participation, as board costs.  For me, there were several races I would like to have attended, but when I saw the cost to enter, I wasn't so excited anymore.   And it also seems the "goodie bags" have gotten smaller and smaller.  I used to be able to get a new set of rainbow sandals every year, which when you factor in the cost of the sandal, I was able to compete for $40.  Incredible deal and a really fun event.  One event I wanted to race this year would have cost $190, and that was not for the pro entry.  One race, one day.  Not for me!

Back to Mo.  For those of you who have ever met him, you know he is one of the nicest and most humble persons you will ever meet.  He comes from a great family, and he is incredibly loyal to his sponsors.  I have also surfed with Zane and Conner and they both are no different.  Great "kids".

I don't know what brought about the change, especially when Mo is arguably the best paddler in the world (surf and race), but I am sure that if it was Mo's decision, that it was not taken lightly.  And if it was Focus, the same is true, as to them Mo was family.
Title: Re: Mo Freitas leaving Focus...
Post by: surf4food on December 04, 2017, 02:42:22 PM
and unlike the prone surfers, the market size for SUP culture (clothes, etc) is pretty much non-existent.   

I would venture to guess that most die hard SUP surfers who come from a surfing background simply identify as surfers and with surf culture (and therefore buy the same clothes as other surfers).  Also if they came surf prone background they likely still prone, even if the majority of fellow prone surfers hate SUP surfing with a passion. 
Title: Re: Mo Freitas leaving Focus...
Post by: 805StandUp on December 04, 2017, 03:45:33 PM
I've stayed out of the racing discussions here but I will say this, in my opinion the reason racing is in decline has almost nothing to do with board length or sponsored pros, or race classifications or other issues that are thrown around here. The primary reason racing is in decline, in my opinion, is that the decent, dedicated race boards are stupidly expensive. Most normal people are not going to spend $2000 to $3000 for a piece of foam with some fiber glass wrapped around it.

As noted already.  This is very true IMO as well.

I believe that the cost to enter an event has equally as much impact on the participation, as board costs.  For me, there were several races I would like to have attended, but when I saw the cost to enter, I wasn't so excited anymore.   And it also seems the "goodie bags" have gotten smaller and smaller.  I used to be able to get a new set of rainbow sandals every year, which when you factor in the cost of the sandal, I was able to compete for $40.  Incredible deal and a really fun event.  One event I wanted to race this year would have cost $190, and that was not for the pro entry.  One race, one day.  Not for me!

Back to Mo.  For those of you who have ever met him, you know he is one of the nicest and most humble persons you will ever meet.  He comes from a great family, and he is incredibly loyal to his sponsors.  I have also surfed with Zane and Conner and they both are no different.  Great "kids".

I don't know what brought about the change, especially when Mo is arguably the best paddler in the world (surf and race), but I am sure that if it was Mo's decision, that it was not taken lightly.  And if it was Focus, the same is true, as to them Mo was family.

Agree wholeheartedly on the observations of costs of raceboards and racing!  For the most part this hobby has been reasonably priced for me and I have been able to sell my surf SUPs for $100-$500 below what I paid for them after I enjoyed them.  Unfortunately, despite getting a small discount off my raceboard because there still seems to be excess inventory from a few years ago that I would be lucky if I sold it for $1500 less than I paid and it is a name-brand!  Makes it hard for me to replace it with the next one that I tend to eye!  A friend of mine is a big tri-athelete and he indicated that he is ok paying $5000+ on a new bike every so often because it makes him more competitive which is why he believes the manufacturers feel they can charge so much for their race SUPs.  My counter argument always comes back to the high level of engineering that goes into making component groups for bikes lighter versus paying $3K+ for a 14' piece of foam covered in epoxy, divinicell, carbon and glass.  I also hate to say it but for most races how much of winning is skill and width of board versus the actual nuance difference between the shape/design of the race SUP.  This could be seen by Mo and Annabel winning races on borrowed boards when their Focus or Szymanski custom wasn't available.  At least this has been an activity of passion that has given me a whole lot more enjoyment, fitness and joy than money I invest.

On the surf front, I would add Sean Poynter to that list of all around great guys.  I surfed with him a couple times and he is just a really nice person and great representative for Starboard.  It seems that Starboard (and perhaps Naish) may be the only large manufacturers that will be able to continuing their large sponsorship of pools of pros with more niche brands like Infinity attracting the other amazing waterman(women) that match their brand by really innovative designs.
Title: Re: Mo Freitas leaving Focus...
Post by: yugi on December 05, 2017, 02:50:21 AM
Is there any news if Mo is joining another team?

I credit Focus Bluefin as breaking the way for the whole new generation of allround race boards. I still prefer the Bluefin to the Naish Maliko for upwind and downwind. Upwind it spends less time with water on the deck and downwind it's more fun to turn.

It's a real shame if Focus is in difficulty. Is this confirmed or are we just guessing?
Title: Re: Mo Freitas leaving Focus...
Post by: stoneaxe on December 05, 2017, 07:13:52 AM
As much as I love Mo's style (Zane and Mo are my favorites too) I'd bet that Creeks involvement with Sunova has had more effect on Sunova sales than Mo had on Focus sales.
Title: Re: Mo Freitas leaving Focus...
Post by: PonoBill on December 05, 2017, 07:22:52 PM
^^Easily. Creek is a bargain. If I were contemplating sponsoring people it would enthusiastic amateurs who are active in social media.
Title: Re: Mo Freitas leaving Focus...
Post by: Eagle on December 07, 2017, 01:54:10 PM
Yep, you are seeing gently used boards being sold for a fraction of their new purchase price. The number that I keep seeing for ANY used board- race, surf, el cheapo generalist, etc. is about $700. To me that is what a board should cost....

Here is a good deal on a 2017 NSP.  Maybe about +60% less than MSRP.  Also looks to be a viable option.  But when you look at the reality -> why?  It seems just like skiing and snowboarding you reach a limit at some point.

Have been using my 3 ski quiver and 3 SB quiver alternating just to get some variety the past month.  Has been a ton of fun.  But like anything gets repetitive after a while.  Same with getting another SUP -> why?  The amount of fun difference is negligible.  As every SUP or ski or SB is better or worse depending on the conditions.  So seems kinda pointless swapping from this to that.  Might be more of a consideration if had only a single board quiver to ride.

But still do like to try different equipment to confirm firsthand how they ride.  Cuts a lot of the BS that floats around from time to time.  For Focus -> losing Mo will def be tough as he was the face of the brand like Connor is with Starboard.
Title: Re: Mo Freitas leaving Focus...
Post by: Newps on December 08, 2017, 11:44:02 AM
^^Easily. Creek is a bargain. If I were contemplating sponsoring people it would enthusiastic amateurs who are active in social media.

I could not agree more with your perspective.  IMOP the best way to grow your brand is to identify the alpha influencers on-line and at the local level.  Get them your product and see what they think.  If they genuinely like it then figure out a way to work together. 
Title: Re: Mo Freitas leaving Focus...
Post by: stoneaxe on December 11, 2017, 10:49:23 AM
Even better is to have that alpha influencer seek your boards. Creek had to work at getting one here. He was in love with Sunova long before any formal arrangements were made...they fortunately recognized his value and made him an ambassador. I'd be very interested to see Sunova's sales numbers pre and post Creek. I know a Creek model is on my list for someday.
Title: Re: Mo Freitas leaving Focus...
Post by: WhatsSUP on December 11, 2017, 11:20:49 AM
Stoney, Your welcome to give mine a whirl next time I see down this way.  It is a fun and easy board!
Title: Re: Mo Freitas leaving Focus...
Post by: yugi on January 09, 2018, 06:16:55 AM
Yay.

My favorite rider joins my favorite SUP brand.

Mo joins Rogue. Glad to see Rogue back in the game.

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bdqy8Bwlbtk/

Title: Re: Mo Freitas leaving Focus...
Post by: 805StandUp on January 09, 2018, 07:47:21 AM
Yup... good pickup for Boardworks.  http://www.supracer.com/2018-mo-freitas-joins-rogue-boardworks/
Title: Re: Mo Freitas leaving Focus...
Post by: 805StandUp on January 09, 2018, 07:59:10 AM
Now to see where Izzy lands (Infinity?) and what Kai is up to...
Title: Re: Mo Freitas leaving Focus...
Post by: mrbig on January 09, 2018, 08:35:39 AM
Curious how this will affect Pat Rawson's relationship with Mo. Hard to imagine Mo having anyone else shaping his surf sups.
Title: Re: Mo Freitas leaving Focus...
Post by: PonoBill on January 09, 2018, 07:04:28 PM
It's boardworks. They are fairly shaper-agnostic.
Title: Re: Mo Freitas leaving Focus...
Post by: mrbig on January 09, 2018, 08:03:39 PM
Had a fun chat with Pat. Surf sups will have PR on the left rail, just like Izzy!
Title: Re: Mo Freitas leaving Focus...
Post by: 805StandUp on January 10, 2018, 08:36:28 AM
Had a fun chat with Pat. Surf sups will have PR on the left rail, just like Izzy!

Not sure what "Public Relations on the left rail" or "Pat Rawson on the left rail" means so I am sure I have your acronym wrong...
Title: Re: Mo Freitas leaving Focus...
Post by: mrbig on January 10, 2018, 01:23:55 PM
Izzy's boards are shaped by Pat. A subtle PR (for Pat Rawson) is on the left rail of her boards.

Mo's surf sups will be shaped by Pat. With the same discreet PR logo..

Title: Re: Mo Freitas leaving Focus...
Post by: 805StandUp on January 10, 2018, 04:37:19 PM
Got it!  I guess I always figured Izzy surfed the Starboard Pro line.  It is always interesting to see the SIC boards painted in other manufacturer colors for the Molokai races...
Title: Re: Mo Freitas leaving Focus...
Post by: 805StandUp on February 12, 2018, 07:04:49 PM
Looks like an overall great move for Mo to be backed by a bigger and more established company with feet in a broader range of water sports... and he is aiming to enter WSL QS events too...

https://www.supthemag.com/features/mo-freitas-talks-sponsor-change-goals-2018/
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