Standup Zone Forum
Stand Up Paddle => SUP Marketplace => Ke Nalu => Topic started by: LM on November 18, 2017, 02:46:16 AM
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Well, I've been keeping my mouth shut about this (due to sticking my foot in it in the past & talking about things too soon) but it's finally a reality. After over a year of development/testing the first Ke Nalu hydrofoils are coming out of the molds. The 'Iwa (pronounced "Eva"..the Hawaiian frigatebird) will come in two sizes the 580 is 1084 cm2 with an aspect ratio of 3.3. The 775 is 1496 cm2 - aspect ratio 4.14.
There are a handful going out now to make sure everything is as it should be. Once we've confirmed that, since the Zone has always been good to us, I'll offer a limited time "Zone Deal" with a substantial discount to help us get some of these in the water & to get the word out. This has been a long time in the making & I'm really happy with what we've come up with. I hope you will be too.
The construction is all pre-preg carbon. I'm really stoked with the quality of manufacturing.
The foil section used for the main wing is a variation of a heavily tested/tried and true NASA/Langley low speed wing design which should be perfect for hydrofoil use. The development of this wing took several months & tested very well on computer (hopefully real world testing proves the same).
You'll be able to use either a plate mount or deep tuttle. The mast is currently at 55cm but we're considering going 60 due to some of the feedback I've heard already regarding other foils.
The rear wing has two mounting positions (forward & aft). The recommended position to start is the aft. You'll also be able to change the angle of incidence (thus the angle of attack when moving) of the rear wing. I considered quite a few options for doing this but opted for the simplest with the thinking that it's not likely any adjustment will be necessary & if so it should only be a one time thing; so I didn't think an "on the fly" adjustment would really be necessary. We had custom made shims made (basically washers...but they're not) that change the angle by 1/2 degree each.
Lots of other details but I've already gotten too long winded. Here's some pics:
Here's a few pics:
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For sure, you need taller masts for kite surfing use. The hotest trend in kite foiling is using surf foils instead of kite foils. 70cm is the ideal mast length for this.
I heard somewhere Kai uses a 70cm for surf foiling. Even though Naish surf foils ship with 55cm.
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Yeah, I know kite mast are much taller, we can go up to 90 with our molds. I was just referring to surf & downwind SUP mast lengths. That's the good thing about being here; with everyone sharing their knowledge & experience it will help the sport progress.
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Congratulations, very nice, and an obvious thing for a pilot to pursue--I should have guessed.
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Great looking stuff man. And yes, of course, great carbon work.
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So many goodies for Christmas.
The great thing about this design is that it will travel well. The mas configuration of the GoFoil makes transportation, especially on an airplane, troublesome.
BUT I'm excited to hear how these perform. Specifically because the GoFoil and Naish appear to be the go-to shapes for slow speed surf foiling.
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Will these be ready for Christmas?
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Looks great! I hope there will be a wind foiling option with smaller front wing and longer mast!
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looks like a interesting profile you have used look forward to trying one some time.
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Is this designed as a surf foil or for downwind or both ? When will we get to know the "zone" price as there are quite a few of foils coming on the market ?
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Nice work Lane, I'm really looking forward to trying it out.
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Lots of lift. I calculate these at about 220 and 260 pounds at 5 mph. Assuming a lift coefficient of two for a NACA 6718 foil. I think these things are going to need flaps pretty soon.
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So my last plane was a Maule M7. It had four positions for flaps. The slower the approach the more flaps. Pretty simple. Simple cable control. Could this approach work for different foiling conditions?
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Lots of lift. I calculate these at about 220 and 260 pounds at 5 mph. Assuming a lift coefficient of two for a NACA 6718 foil. I think these things are going to need flaps pretty soon.
See, these are the kind of numbers I want to see when I am shopping for foils. Tell me how many pounds of lift I can get at x speed.
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For me, the ability to break it down for transport is a plus. Having a plate mount option is also favorable to me. It gives you more freedom to adjust to personal riding preferences. I’m sure the quality will be on par with their paddles. Look forward to the release of these as we need more options than what is currently available.
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Will these be ready for Christmas?
I'm hoping so, on a limited basis at least. Purchase will probably be through direct contact since I'm yet to have a website for these. Lots to do on the promotional side now since all of my time up to this point has been in the development/production side of things.
If anyone wants to contact me directly it's easiest through customerservice@kenalu.com.
If I could get some idea of how many people are interested here it might help with both a timeline as well as pricing. I know a lot will depend on what cost I'm offering them at. Retail is set to be at $1,345 for the 585 wing and $1,445 for the 775. Off the top of my head I'm thinking of a 30% Zone discount if there's enough interest. It will be for a limited time & on a first come first serve basis.
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Looks great! I hope there will be a wind foiling option with smaller front wing and longer mast!
Planning on it. The mast is already capable of being 90cm & I'll continue to work on various wings as things progress/develop.
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Is this designed as a surf foil or for downwind or both ? When will we get to know the "zone" price as there are quite a few of foils coming on the market ?
The smaller wing will work well for smaller riders as a downwind or surf wing (about 160lbs for downwinding roughly). This wing would work well for riders up to the 200 lb. range for larger (head high and above) surf.
The larger wing will provide early lift for smaller riders downwinding as should work well for guys up to the range of 200 lbs for downwinding as well. It would also make a good smaller surf foil for larger riders.
For now I'm thinking the next SUP/surf wing will be a bit larger rather than smaller, there seems to be a trend going that direction lately.
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Any idea of what the list coefficient of the foil is? At zero AOA.
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Any idea of what the list coefficient of the foil is? At zero AOA.
The short answer is no.
We could probably plug that into the computer at a given speed though & find out, I'll check. Most of the testing we did was with at least 2 degrees angle of attack and since the foil section is from a proven foil I was concentrating more on the general "look" of the performance (how the flow lines and pressure looked). There's a pretty cool website for stuff like this (http://airfoiltools.com/ (http://airfoiltools.com/)) although since it's aviation related it all about air density, pretty cool though.
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at a bit of a guess looks like the http://airfoiltools.com/airfoil/details?airfoil=e817-il may give you some info the bill
if you search hydrofoil on there page you get this list.. its the same site as I have been using and has been very helpful
very keen to hear of fell how it performs, its not something that caught my eye and is quite different in looks. always good to see these different shapes.
http://airfoiltools.com/search/index?MAirfoilSearchForm%5BtextSearch%5D=hydrofoil&MAirfoilSearchForm%5BmaxThickness%5D=&MAirfoilSearchForm%5BminThickness%5D=&MAirfoilSearchForm%5BmaxCamber%5D=&MAirfoilSearchForm%5BminCamber%5D=&MAirfoilSearchForm%5Bgrp%5D=&MAirfoilSearchForm%5Bsort%5D=1&yt0=Search
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at a bit of a guess looks like the http://airfoiltools.com/airfoil/details?airfoil=e817-il may give you some info the bill
if you search hydrofoil on there page you get this list.. its the same site as I have been using and has been very helpful
very keen to hear of fell how it performs, its not something that caught my eye and is quite different in looks. always good to see these different shapes.
http://airfoiltools.com/search/index?MAirfoilSearchForm%5BtextSearch%5D=hydrofoil&MAirfoilSearchForm%5BmaxThickness%5D=&MAirfoilSearchForm%5BminThickness%5D=&MAirfoilSearchForm%5BmaxCamber%5D=&MAirfoilSearchForm%5BminCamber%5D=&MAirfoilSearchForm%5Bgrp%5D=&MAirfoilSearchForm%5Bsort%5D=1&yt0=Search
Not a bad guess from not actually seeing ours in person but that's not it. That one didn't catch my eye either. What I used isn't any that are in the hydrofoil list & I modified it a bit from "stock". I don't really want to give it away in a forum. It's not really a "top secret" but from what I've seen there's no need to make things easier for people that aren't willing to look into things themselves :) & most are I've seen are pretty basic. Nothing at all wrong with basic really as long as it works. But I'm hoping for a bit better than simply "working".
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I had a good look at this new Ke Nalu foil yesterday (at the Merimbula Classic) and it’s very nice.. It’s very similar to my Naish foil but much lighter having a carbon mast and fuselage.
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Looks great Lane.
I am eagerly waiting to try the larger one.
As my main interest is downwinding though and I am close on 90kg I think a larger wing may be required for me.
I hope you can get some over to Australia soon as we are in the middle of downwind season over in Western Australia and after seeing a foil fly past all the SUP's and Ski's during a recent race, I can't wait to try one.
Also I am a kiter as well so as others have said a longer mast options would be great.
Best of luck with them, as a long time KeNalu paddle user I am sure the quality of construction will be great.
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Hi Guys,
Just a quick update (& bump to remind) we're finally getting close to shipment day. I'm still not taking payment at this time but if you're interested please shoot me a message with your email address & I can add you to the list for updates. We should have some in the states by the end of the month. There's a fairly good list of interested people, thanks for all your continued support! Once we're ready for payment I'll shoot everyone an email & orders will ship in the order that we receive payment.
Please feel free to contact me with any questions: customerservice@kenalu.com
Happy Holidays!!
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I've been hesitant to even think about getting into foils but you have me reconsidering. I've had a thought in the back of my mind that the perfect foil is going to look like a manta ray and this looks the closest that I've seen.
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How are these coming?
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I'm finally getting some reports back from some of the "test pilots", I'm really hoping to be ready with these shortly (I wanted to be by now) but I want to be 100% sure they're good to go & don't need any "tweaking". So far so good but I'm still waiting to hear some more. As of yet nobody has tried the larger (775) wing but I'm hoping they will over the next week. Sorry I've been slow to report, I just haven't had much to report lately. As soon as I have anything of interest I'll let you know. & for those of you that are waiting for the Zone offer I'll also email you directly.
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Awesome! I'm down and frothing for a 775, but I get the desire to want to get everything just right. I can be patient I guess ;D
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Pretty cool that Ke Nalu is getting into the foil game. Really like the looks of their design. Wondering if you guys have any further comments on the
775. How does it compare with the new GoFoil M280? Is it a good beginner foil to get started with and then go down to a smaller wing?
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Pretty cool that Ke Nalu is getting into the foil game. Really like the looks of their design. Wondering if you guys have any further comments on the
775. How does it compare with the new GoFoil M280? Is it a good beginner foil to get started with and then go down to a smaller wing?
We're finally getting the 775 wings into some testers hands, I should have more to report soon. Everything I've seen regarding the M280 has been online. Robert from Blue Planet did a good review on their Youtube channel. The M280 is a pretty massive wing, quite a bit larger than the 775 & most seem to agree it's a downwind specific foil, too big for surf. The 775 would still be a good surf foil (as well as a good downwinder foil for most) but I wouldn't call it a beginner foil, the wing sizing is more body & wave size thing rather than ability, although the larger wing would be easier to catch waves on.
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I'm really hoping the 775 is going to be big enough for a 50+yo 85kg but reasonably fit beginner (fairly new kite foiler and have been SUP downwinding for years) to downwind foil on.
I suspect though that I will want a larger size at least equivalent to the 200 gofoil, I think foil downwinding is the future but most crew will need a bigger foil than they think.
Hanging out to try but appreciate the need to test and get them right.
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I'm really hoping the 775 is going to be big enough for a 50+yo 85kg but reasonably fit beginner (fairly new kite foiler and have been SUP downwinding for years) to downwind foil on.
I suspect though that I will want a larger size at least equivalent to the 200 gofoil, I think foil downwinding is the future but most crew will need a bigger foil than they think.
Hanging out to try but appreciate the need to test and get them right.
I think it will be. I read elsewhere about Go Foils sizing & from what I read I think Go Foil's listed sizes are MUCH larger than actual, the dimensions just don't add up. Our 775 should be larger than their original Maliko but probably a bit smaller than the 200. Guys I know (around our size, yours & mine) found the original Maliko to work farily well as a downwinder. I think the larger wings will bit a bit easier to keep on the foil (we're planning on doing some larger wings too) but too much bigger will limit them to "downwind only" use (too large for surf). I do agree that most will find larger foils will be beneficial for downwinding. It seems "how big is too big?" might be the next question.
I've always enjoyed the beginning/evolutionary stages of sports & although foiling isn't necessarily new, it's just now starting to take off. It's going to be really fun to see where it goes over the next few years.
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The Maliko is very flat, which makes it a bit more stable than a foil with anhedral, but a little harder to turn. I think the flatness makes it more suitable for downwind as much as the size does. The 280 is flat out huge. I'm trying to figure out what to get. My knee seems to be behaving enough to jump in. I've got a board ready--my old L41 SimSUP, now I just need to commit.
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The Maliko is very flat, which makes it a bit more stable than a foil with anhedral, but a little harder to turn. I think the flatness makes it more suitable for downwind as much as the size does. The 280 is flat out huge. I'm trying to figure out what to get. My knee seems to be behaving enough to jump in. I've got a board ready--my old L41 SimSUP, now I just need to commit.
If you're willing to wait a bit we'll have your "magic" size soon I think :)
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The Maliko is very flat, which makes it a bit more stable than a foil with anhedral, but a little harder to turn. I think the flatness makes it more suitable for downwind as much as the size does. The 280 is flat out huge. I'm trying to figure out what to get. My knee seems to be behaving enough to jump in. I've got a board ready--my old L41 SimSUP, now I just need to commit.
We are all just guessing ATM and I agree the flatness would make it more stable and hence easier to learn on, however once you get used to downwind SUP foiling I am sure (for me at least) I would prefer a fair bit of anhedral as I think the ease of turning would make downwinding more fun and allow you to position yourself better on the bumps.
I know with kitefoiling the flatter wings breach much more when turning compared to the more curved wings.
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WOW Lane!! Had no idea you had designed a foil. The design looks really good and is definately an upgrade to what is currently available on the market. Very thoughtful design.
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Lane sent me a foil set with the two wind sizes to test. I only had one short session on the 775 wing so far and it worked well, watch the video report here:
https://youtu.be/4pHDVipYGIo
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Weird that they are using a slanted tuttle box adapter. Have those ever been used for sup foil applications? Seems like they would only work on windsurfers.
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Gong from France uses slanted Tuttle box.
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Weird that they are using a slanted tuttle box adapter. Have those ever been used for sup foil applications? Seems like they would only work on windsurfers.
Naish & others use them as well. The only squared off ones I've seen are Go Foils. Both types work just fine, but if transitioning from one type to the other you need to make the mounting holes on the board slightly oblong.
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Weird that they are using a slanted tuttle box adapter. Have those ever been used for sup foil applications? Seems like they would only work on windsurfers.
Naish & others use them as well. The only squared off ones I've seen are Go Foils. Both types work just fine, but if transitioning from one type to the other you need to make the mounting holes on the board slightly oblong.
Gotcha. Got my tuttle box installed, now I'm just waiting on the roll out. :D
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Jeff Chang and I used the smaller Ke Nalu Iwa 580 foil wing towing into some big rollers on a big, glassy swell day on Oahu's North Shore. I have to say the foil felt great, very balanced. The smaller wing size was good at the higher speeds of these fast moving waves. A longer mast would have really helped, the foil breached quickly and we had a lot of high speed wipeouts, that's why we are not doing a lot of turns, just going straight and and trimming the foil took full concentration and focus. We started feeling a bit more comfortable towards the end of the session, here is a gopro video of some of our better rides.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClP-zfDB2bU
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Aaahhhhh man- you boys fly-in!
Looks so fun.
Every time I think I've talked myself outta foiling.....
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Jeff Chang and I used the smaller Ke Nalu Iwa 580 foil wing towing into some big rollers on a big, glassy swell day on Oahu's North Shore. I have to say the foil felt great, very balanced. The smaller wing size was good at the higher speeds of these fast moving waves. A longer mast would have really helped, the foil breached quickly and we had a lot of high speed wipeouts, that's why we are not doing a lot of turns, just going straight and and trimming the foil took full concentration and focus. We started feeling a bit more comfortable towards the end of the session, here is a gopro video of some of our better rides.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClP-zfDB2bU
Nice video Robert! Other than the mast length (we will be making them longer) it looks like it was working fairly well for you.
One note for those on the waiting list for foils: I haven't forgotten about you, Robert is one of our "test pilots" that's why he has one & you don't. We're still fine tuning things with the fuselage, hopefully we'll have things sorted out soon. I'll keep you all posted.
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Just a quick heads-up that I'm now taking pre-orders for our hydrofoil. Many of you are on the list already but for those that might still be interested please email me at customerservice@kenalu.com for details. We're offering Zoners 30% off retail but holding your place in line requires full payment up front. I'll be putting in the order with the factory at some point next week & then it'll be about a 30 day turn around. Once the order has been submitted to the factory this offer will be off the table so if you want to save a bunch on a great foil get your order in soon.
Here's a review by Rod Parmenter from FoilBuzz.com on the 775 wing with a short video: https://www.foilbuzz.com/single-post/2017/12/12/Wakefoiling-the-KeNalu-IWA-775-Hydrofoil (https://www.foilbuzz.com/single-post/2017/12/12/Wakefoiling-the-KeNalu-IWA-775-Hydrofoil)
And a video of Robert Stehlik from Blue Planet Hawaii on the 'Iwa 775: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CS8-il7Kb4&feature=share (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CS8-il7Kb4&feature=share)
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Weird that they are using a slanted tuttle box adapter. Have those ever been used for sup foil applications? Seems like they would only work on windsurfers.
Go Foil uses the Straight Deep Tuttle and those boxes will set you back about $80 - $110 plus install which I have seen locally for $150 - $200+
The Deep Tuttle (or slanted as you describe) that KeNalu uses is great - especially for thinner boards - and I'm seeing the boxes for under $20 and they are light and super strong (Liquid Surf & Sail has them for $16). These are also called a race box and they are molded. Of course with the KeNalu foil you also have the option of a plate mount which a lot of foilers prefer for strength and adjustability.
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Slanted Tuttles are intended for fin boxes to accommodate a tail getting thinner. Foil boxes get installed a lot more forward generally. so there's no particular benefit to a slanted box. The molded box themselves should be plenty strong for foils, but the box might be more difficult to tie into both the top and bottom of the board. If you don't connect to both surfaces you're just depending on the strength of the foam (not much) and the bottom glass.
But you don't need to install a slanted Tuttle box to accommodate the slanted plug. You can insert a slanted Tuttle into a full deep tuttle box, which is deep enough to tie to the top glass. It will be depending on a tight fit of the box front and back for stability, but I don't think any Tuttle fitment actually contacts the bottom of the box unless it's been sanded down so it fits that deep, and then it would probably wobble side to side. The price for Race boxes and full deep Tuttle is about the same--about $25 from Chinook. And IMHO if you use anything but a Chinook box or the ones Alex Aguerra makes you deserve what happens to you. I wouldn't install the race box, there isn't any reason to.
The more expensive Aguerra box is clad with thick PVC foam and has a carbon top and bottom, Bulletproof if you install it well. I don't understand how he sells them for a hundred bucks--they have a hundred bucks worth of PVC on them. I installed the Aguera Tuttle in my L41. Bit of a challenge to get it right, I had to cut off the carbon and some of the foam from the top to get the installed height right, but it's rock solid.
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Just wanted to let everyone know I'm putting the order in with the factory for the Zone pre-purchase special tomorrow so if anyone is still interested in taking advantage of the offer (30% savings off retail) please let me know right away. Once the order is in with the factory the offer is no longer available.
Please direct any questions to: customerservice@kenalu.com
Thanks to all those who've taken advantage of the offer already!
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Email sent re:purchase. Thank you for the discount.
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Got my order in on Friday, thanks Lane! Everything looks great. Really impressed with the fit and finish, plus the heavy duty case is a real bonus. At 230 lbs, I'm not sure I'll ever use the smaller wing, but at the price it was offered I figure I might as well.
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Damn that looks so good Exiled, I have had my first few SUP foils recently on a cheap Chinese foil and even that was a buzz but I can't wait to get my hands on some real quality carbon goodness.
I'm frothing like a grom over this foil revolution. ;D
I reckon you will be surprised and even the 580 will get some use when you get the hang of it.
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Can you describe what the tools and other things are in the bottom right corner of the pic
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Can you describe what the tools and other things are in the bottom right corner of the pic
Tuttle box mount, hardware for the tuttlebox and foil in the baggie, 4mm and 5mm orange handled hex wrenches for the hardware.
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She arrived today! Dry-fitment and everything came together nicely. Thanks Kenalu and Lane for an awesome deal!
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Finally got everything assembled and greased up. Finding long enough M6 screws for my board's tuttle box was a chore. Now I just have to get everything on the water
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This is a great looking rig man.
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I'm looking forward to hearing some feedback after you guys get some time on your foils. So far we've had some great feedback.
The 970 downwinder foil is about ready for testing. I'm anxious to get that one in the water too.
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I've been hoping to hear some reviews from you guys. May people took advantage of the pre-order offer but I haven't heard much back from you guys yet. How's it going for you?
We have been getting some great reviews from elsewhere (some reviews below) but I was really hoping to hear from some of you:
"Wow your foil is such a fun foil to fly on. I have a ***** foil and have riden ####### and ^^^^^^ foils, am expecting to try out a friends ---------- foil and so far am really impressed by the KeNalu foil. From first impressions just holding it how light it is compared to the *****. To the solid construction and not feeling as flimsy as the #######. To flying and it not wiggling. Very impressed. Flies like a dream"
“On a wave, it lifts straight up, instead of wanting to pitch up as you go faster. You nailed the stabilizer angle. I liked the stabilizer in the forward position because it made the foil less stable and more willing to turn. With the stabilizer forward, it turned like a much smaller foil than it was, turning felt comparable to the ###### ###i. It really likes to sit at the top of the wave and ride it like birds ride slope lift. When riding like that, it felt super efficient. Airs also felt pretty good and landing back in the water was controllable. It is definitely in my top 3 foils…Overall, I and others who tried it absolutely loved riding it. The few people that rode it all commented on how smooth it was and how well it turned. It’s definitely one of my favorite foils. This would be my go to for small waves.”
From a kiter on a 580:
“It felt great at speed and going slow. It worked great! I powered my kite and within 10 feet I was on foil. It turns great and I think the best option for people learning as well. Most kite wings are small and not forgiving, the point of it for me is getting the surf feel.”
So far some great feedback but I want to hear from you guys.
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You're the only brand pointing out that you're using a longer fuselage for stability.
Could you work out this point some more?
How does the length of the fuselage, resp. the total lenght of the foil wing to wing the stbility when flying.
In Windfoiling the fuselage length ís THE most discussed issue atm besides frontwing area since it is one of the main parts that defines a foils riding character.
Alex
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You're the only brand pointing out that you're using a longer fuselage for stability.
Could you work out this point some more?
How does the length of the fuselage, resp. the total lenght of the foil wing to wing the stbility when flying.
In Windfoiling the fuselage length ís THE most discussed issue atm besides frontwing area since it is one of the main parts that defines a foils riding character.
Alex
I don't think we're the only brand, it seems I've heard it mentioned elsewhere.
Basically it's pitch sensitivity we're talking about. I think the fulcrum principle can help explain: This is kind of oversimplified but basically If you put a long lever on a fulcrum it'll be more stable than a short lever...or perhaps better; if you have a balancing board with a long board, it would be more stable (require less "balance" or less twitchy) than a shorter board. How it relates to the rest of the foil would have to do with overall wing size, etc. A longer fuselage would allow you more leverage over a larger wing than a shorter fuse. which would help toward pitch sensitivity.