Standup Zone Forum
The Foil Zone => Foil SUP => Topic started by: Admin on October 09, 2017, 08:00:31 AM
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Glad to see that someone has started on this. https://www.facebook.com/revokayaks/. Probably will find that a greatly reduced boat is possible but we will see.
(https://scontent-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/22289882_494666540896219_4370576537622576561_o.jpg?oh=91c06651e07124b677b741ac98c8f537&oe=5A7B5051)
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Probably will find that a greatly reduced boat is possible but we will see.
Yep. Like one of those stubby little white water kayaks.
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Yea it's way too long , need paddle ski , those short little kayaks
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I asked a few of the waveski makers if they would build me one with a foil mount. They are happy to do it. I was kind of hoping some one would pick up the project and do a little testing first :). My guess is you could get away with a greatly reduced boat. Likely smaller even than a performance waveski but that would take some fiddling to figure out.
http://waveski.com/models/j-bay/
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Haha now that's a wierd coincidence , I live in Jbay :-)
But yea , IMO that's the perfect platform to start developing either a DW or surf kayak for foiling
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Yea it's way too long , need paddle ski , those short little kayaks
Yep, a full length ski would be a nightmare as trimming through body lean is essential when we surf ski but foil/balance trimming when sat down is going to be challenging. Would fore/aft foils be better in this case ?
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The thought of swinging that huge eggshell nose and tail around in good bumps and having it catch and bash while under pressure...I don't see that working on a lot of levels. If you used two foils in a flyak configuration they would need to be pretty close together to avoid losing one behind the swell in many instances.
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The thought of swinging that huge eggshell nose and tail around in good bumps and having it catch and bash while under pressure...I don't see that working on a lot of levels. If you used two foils in a flyak configuration they would need to be pretty close together to avoid losing one behind the swell in many instances.
There is footage online of a dual foiled K1 (I think it was) on flatwater and that worked really well but required a lot of energy to get it up. It also wouldn't work well in the swell. I think your suggestion of a short length wave ski is far better.
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I know nothing about any of this but 1st thing i thought when i saw it was how do you trim front to back while sitting?
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There is probably something to this 'Idea' but the end state is going to look nothing like this.
Using Kai Lenny as an example. He broke the whole low speed foiling wide open with his cut off downwind board.
He would never again use that board. He is foiling on short SUP's and dinner plates.
The long, extended platform with foil attached was just a step in the evolutionary process. Once your up on the foil you want the entire craft to go away.
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Beasho, re: Kai, yeah what about that 3'9"!!?
Admin you may have to be the crash test dummy on this one. ;)
But as far as trim, if the balance is right you could do a to. Of trim just by moving your upper body. Refer to the OC-1 guys to see that in action.
So weird that every water sport is looking into adding a foil. Really fun time to be in paddle sports.
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I'm going to trademark the word unifoil.....mount a purple metal flake 60's stingray bike seat on top of a foil...... ;)
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Stoneaxe, I love it.
Seriously, have you seen the 3'9" board (disc?) that Kai is surfing? Nuts.
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How you gonna adjust pitch control in a ski? Sitting on your butt seems an odd way to have to deal with pitch. Of course you do adjust back and forth with traditional ski riding by leaning slightly forward of the CG (I've only got 10 months under my belt so I'm no expert) but from what I've seen of the stand up foilers, they're really getting it on with the pump and the pump is what keeps them up.
I'm just not seeing it. Will someone do it please and post the video?
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Yikes! I have a 9' international class decked surf kayak that I am not using much. Maybe once a year. Well built carbon Kevlar boat by "Murky Waters". Any kayakers out there? Do you think it would be possible to roll a kayak that has a foil attached? Definitely don't want to be a swimmer with a boat full of water and a foil attached.
Bob
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One of the local surf skiers mounted a Clearwater to his ski and said he was experimenting with it. Based on our conversation it didn't sound like it was going too well so far. Seems hard to imagine trimming would work well without the ability to quickly shift your whole body weight around.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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Double bladed paddling generates a lot more force than single bladed or hand paddling. The question will be if paddling glide maintenance on the foil can replace pumping. My guess is yes. If that is the case then a highly reduced "boat" will be viable. Maybe just water wings and the foil mast clenched in butt cheeks.
If you can get rid of the huge boat, trim should be possible with upper body lean. This would have a very low center of gravity compared to any of the other sports.
For the ski pictured in the original thread (according to one comment) a patent application is pending for a moving seat mechanism to control pitch and steering. I would hope that would not be needed in a greatly reduced design.
Foils are indeed being added to all watercraft but some really shine while others look pretty clunky (not to say they aren't fun). Kiting looks amazing with a foil and in my eyes is the most natural implementation so far (still a goal of mine as long as I can convince my asshole legs to cooperate). Seated, double bladed paddling seems like it could get into that range for downwind and ocean swell cruising.
I had a dream (no shit) that I was sitting a mile outside of little Mak on a huge day and picking up rolling bombs on my butt foil and doing speed runs and carving off 100 yards outside of the lineup. Hah! I love sports dreams.
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A flyak should surf just fine. It's odd that they haven't been tried more in swells. There isn't any problem with one wing being behind the swell, that wing will get almost as much energy as the front one--in some cases more. Remember that the wave energy is all moving in the same direction. You can see the better foil surfers keeping their boards going on the backside of the swell. Even standard surfboards don't get much of the energy they use from sliding down a hill--they convert a tiny fraction of the thousands of horsepower in the wave into velocity. More obvious with foils. Marlon and Austin wind up back of the peak a lot and often make it over the peak with minimal pumping.
I think a much more refined geezer foil would be great for a kayak. I screwed up the calculations and have nearly three times more surface area than I needed. GF2 can lift over 600 pounds. No idea how I did that. The big advantage of surface-piercing foils is inherent roll stability. I still haven't done serious testing of GF2, but hand pull tests (yes, a rope, some weight, and Nichols Boat Basin) show it to be extremely stable in roll. The nose bounced around like a dolphin, but it wouldn't roll.
Initial body position will be important, but upper body movement should be enough to control pitch if the foils are sized right
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A flyak should surf just fine. It's odd that they haven't been tried more in swells. There isn't any problem with one wing being behind the swell, that wing will get almost as much energy as the front one--in some cases more. Remember that the wave energy is all moving in the same direction. You can see the better foil surfers keeping their boards going on the backside of the swell. Even standard surfboards don't get much of the energy they use from sliding down a hill--they convert a tiny fraction of the thousands of horsepower in the wave into velocity. More obvious with foils. Marlon and Austin wind up back of the peak a lot and often make it over the peak with minimal pumping.
I think a much more refined geezer foil would be great for a kayak. I screwed up the calculations and have nearly three times more surface area than I needed. GF2 can lift over 600 pounds. No idea how I did that. The big advantage of surface-piercing foils is inherent roll stability. I still haven't done serious testing of GF2, but hand pull tests (yes, a rope, some weight, and Nichols Boat Basin) show it to be extremely stable in roll. The nose bounced around like a dolphin, but it wouldn't roll.
Initial body position will be important, but upper body movement should be enough to control pitch if the foils are sized right
Sounds great and I'm into it if it'll work. Let's do it!
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A flyak should surf just fine. It's odd that they haven't been tried more in swells. There isn't any problem with one wing being behind the swell, that wing will get almost as much energy as the front one--in some cases more. Remember that the wave energy is all moving in the same direction. You can see the better foil surfers keeping their boards going on the backside of the swell. Even standard surfboards don't get much of the energy they use from sliding down a hill--they convert a tiny fraction of the thousands of horsepower in the wave into velocity. More obvious with foils. Marlon and Austin wind up back of the peak a lot and often make it over the peak with minimal pumping.
I think a much more refined geezer foil would be great for a kayak. I screwed up the calculations and have nearly three times more surface area than I needed. GF2 can lift over 600 pounds. No idea how I did that. The big advantage of surface-piercing foils is inherent roll stability. I still haven't done serious testing of GF2, but hand pull tests (yes, a rope, some weight, and Nichols Boat Basin) show it to be extremely stable in roll. The nose bounced around like a dolphin, but it wouldn't roll.
Initial body position will be important, but upper body movement should be enough to control pitch if the foils are sized right
I think your basic design could be great with a double bladed paddle. May take a few iterations...but you have a mostly empty shop :).
I like the idea of slapping existing known good parts together to figure out what the issues are. That should allow quicker changes and adjustments at the beginning.
Without a need to pump, and with a very reduced boat, it seems like a shorter mast may be fine. That could allow comfortable paddling while on the foil. If you can get there I think you have a really fun sport. small, relatively light, maneuverable...talking myself into it now.
What is Piros doing with all of those China Foils :).
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There is probably something to this 'Idea' but the end state is going to look nothing like this.... Once your up on the foil you want the entire craft to go away.
And to quote Admin: "If that is the case then a highly reduced "boat" will be viable. Maybe just water wings and the foil mast clenched in butt cheeks."
Foilboots and a PFD. Pump them up and down and away you go. No clench.