Standup Zone Forum
Stand Up Paddle => Downwind and Racing => Topic started by: viatormundi on September 10, 2017, 12:43:42 PM
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I read this article http://www.totalsup.com/rise-sup-unlimited-division/ (http://www.totalsup.com/rise-sup-unlimited-division/) and wonder how these new designs are different than the SIC unlimiteds as mentioned in the article.
For example, is the latest NSP unlimited really faster at 15-20 knots wind than a SIC unlimited design? If that is the case, that can be interesting where I live. Here in Mallorca, in the Mediterranean sea we do have more these type of mild conditions.
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At this point nothing is going to revolutionize speed or ease of use. Every design is a compromised dependent on conditions.
That article is wishful thinking at best... unless of course you're trying to talk yourself into getting an unlimited.
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That was a very interesting read, thanks for sharing it! I volunteer to be a test paddler comparing all the boards against each other, like they do in golf magazines - 20 or so golfers that represent all handicap levels spend time smacking balls with clubs from most manufacturers, and they give their opinions good and bad. All the stats are compared using the same standard criteria so it's an even playing field.
Take that concept and apply it to unlimited boards, let's see what veteran and rookie paddlers of varying weight and gender experience on those boards in all conditions possible. The more I think of this and describe it, the more surprised I am that no one is doing this as far as I have seen.
Imagine this applied to demos at major races where all us normal folk get to play on the newest & best equipment, like they do at PPG, but with more boards from all the vendors, and paddlers are asked to rate the boards using universal criteria. This would really be amazing information for consumers at all levels, and all classes.
There's the dream, now we just need to make it happen :)
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Unlimited boards are coming and spreading again. Here is our latest unlimited to add to our already 17'7 flat deck and 17'7 flatwater. This is just a vid a friend made and sent to me so music is not my choice!!lol
https://vimeo.com/232335412
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^ excellent
Awesome footage, and actually awesome music choice too
Especially if you understand the song.
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Very nice video indeed. In what conditions is the dugout version preferable over the flat deck?
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That was a very interesting read, thanks for sharing it! I volunteer to be a test paddler comparing all the boards against each other, like they do in golf magazines - 20 or so golfers that represent all handicap levels spend time smacking balls with clubs from most manufacturers, and they give their opinions good and bad. All the stats are compared using the same standard criteria so it's an even playing field.
Take that concept and apply it to unlimited boards, let's see what veteran and rookie paddlers of varying weight and gender experience on those boards in all conditions possible. The more I think of this and describe it, the more surprised I am that no one is doing this as far as I have seen.
Imagine this applied to demos at major races where all us normal folk get to play on the newest & best equipment, like they do at PPG, but with more boards from all the vendors, and paddlers are asked to rate the boards using universal criteria. This would really be amazing information for consumers at all levels, and all classes.
There's the dream, now we just need to make it happen :)
It didn't work out as well for the downwind showcase in 2009 but what you describe is exactly what Pono did with the Board and Paddle Showcase back in 2008. 50 boards from (almost) all the major manufacturers on the same beach at the same time. 50 paddlers of all sizes, and abilities.....from groms to old timers....groms were Connor, Zane, and Slater.....I was the official out of shape old newbie.. ;). Every paddler tried whatever boards and paddles they felt like and filled out standard questionnaires for each.
It would be great for something similar to be done for racing and downwind but I wouldn't hold my breath.
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Very nice video indeed. In what conditions is the dugout version preferable over the flat deck?
If you like surfing your board and getting in the tail then the Flatdeck if you want to just go as fast as possible then the dugout. I feel the dugout will have a wider wind range and suit a wider range of paddler but the flatdecks still still surf better on a wave or bump but dont flow as well between the bumps.
Maybe i will work on a vid explaining the difference between the boards.
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I feel the dugout will have a wider wind range and suit a wider range of paddler but the flatdecks still still surf better on a wave or bump but dont flow as well between the bumps.
The dugout would have a wider range in the lower range of the wind/condition spectrum i.e. faster on smaller bumps/marginal wind conditions?
Maybe i will work on a vid explaining the difference between the boards.
That would be great and with slow motion as your latest videos :-)
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I feel the dugout will have a wider wind range and suit a wider range of paddler but the flatdecks still still surf better on a wave or bump but dont flow as well between the bumps.
The dugout would have a wider range in the lower range of the wind/condition spectrum i.e. faster on smaller bumps/marginal wind conditions?
Maybe i will work on a vid explaining the difference between the boards.
That would be great and with slow motion as your latest videos :-)
Yes wider wind range at the lower end but still able to handle the bigger bumps no worries as well just a different way to ride the board really. Someone who loves surfing the board and is nice and agile could go just as fast on the Flat deck but if you just want to stand and shoot then maybe the dugout is a better option. Both are fast its just what style do you like.
Probably for guys who want to win big races i see them on Dugouts and for crew who's just want to have fun and really surf the bumps then the Flatdeck might be the better option.
Will work on a vid once i get back home to Aus after PPG.
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I certainly hope the interest spreads, and that it makes its way outside the downwind niche. It's an old rant that no one really wants to hear anymore, but eliminating board classes entirely would do a world of good for SUP racing. Enough people actually seem to understand how weight, muscle mass and length work to make clear arguments for ditching the arbitrary length limits and letting people race boards that suit them--not just for downwind but for flatwater. It's time to think about that before SUP racing drops to the participation levels of competitive rollerblading.
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Thx Jacko for the explanation. You know our conditions in Spain. Around Mallorca we have mostly winds between 15-20 knots and the period of the swell is not so big as in the open oceans. In that case which version would you recommend? Dugout or flat deck? I will not participate in downwind races but want to do fun downwind runs and learn more. Currently I have a Jimmy Lewis Rail 14x28 but it is a bit wide for me, was great to start with. Now I am looking into an unlimited board option. There are very few downwind boards in unlimited size in Spain but we are couple of people trying to get into it.
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Great Video showing the potential for this type of design in lower wind conditions. Does this version have steering?
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A big deterrent to unlimiteds is the shipping cost. I had a lot of interest in an unlimited I was recently selling. A few people on the east coast were interested so I got a few coast to coast shipping quotes. You'll notice in the ITEMS: line that it shows " 1 - Kayak over 14' (additional charges applied) "
That is where the 14' class was born.....
I figured I'd have about $50. in crating material costs and about an hour labor to build the crate, foam wrap and box. The board, crating and shipping cost, was just too much extra cost.
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Not really. The 14' class was born when Naish dictated 14' for their racing series. Everyone else copied that. Shipping stuff started going insane ten years ago, but the effect was minimal at the time 14' became the standard. It's about 7% year to year for ground and 8% for air--75% and 83% respectively over the last decade. Like most things people look at to explain why we're stuck with boards that don't work for half the potential paddlers we look at the end result (or where we are today) and think it's the cause.
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I think TD is both right and wrong.......shipping (and other concerns due to size, storage, etc) are significant deterrents to unlimiteds being widely adopted. But i agree on the birth of the 14' class.....I believe it exists because of the Starboard K15.
It's kind of interesting that dugouts are now in vogue.....wasn't the K15 also the 1st dugout SUP? I've always thought that if I was 100 lbs lighter chopping a foot off the tail of a K15 would have made a great 14' racer (somebody on here actually did that 4 or 5 years ago) but I demoed one when they were new....amazing that a board can still be pretty fast when it is almost completely submerged..... ;)
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Not really. The 14' class was born when Naish dictated 14' for their racing series. Everyone else copied that.
Why did Naish dictate a 14' for their racing series and not a 14'6 or 15'? What was their motivation to pick 14'?
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Not really. The 14' class was born when Naish dictated 14' for their racing series. Everyone else copied that.
Why did Naish dictate a 14' for their racing series and not a 14'6 or 15'? What was their motivation to pick 14'?
As above...the motivation was the Starboard K15......Naish didn't have a board that could keep up with it when it came out.
I also found the old thread where Stylo cut off the tail....appropriately titled "Any production board faster than a K15 in flat water?"
https://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,18104.msg172811.html#msg172811
The 12-6 class was the opposite....created to be inclusive. If I remember correctly the BOP was originally going to be a 12' class but they made it 12-6 so that the very popular (at the time) Laird 12-1, Starboard 12-6 and others just slightly longer than 12' could be included.
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Nope, 12'6" started at the BOP, when Gerry and Sparky wanted elite padders to come in and out of the surf, like the lifeguard races. That's also why there's a run. They copied Naish for the open class and established 12'6" as the elite class. That didn't stick in some ways, but the effect is still out there echoing around. You're right about why they chose 12'6"--they wanted to force a limit but they wanted to include all the popular shorter boards.
It's odd how people mix cause and effect. I hear shop owners say 14' is great because unlimiteds don't sell. Maybe that's because you generally can't race them? Or if you do, it's you and, well, no one else.
Why aren't there 15-foot boards? Don't even think about a lot bigger, just something that might fit another 40 percent of the population. Or something that isn't just 10 percent bigger than a 12'6".
It's always been arbitrary nonsense, but it's pretty deeply embedded. If I were going to organize a race I'd explicitly say "no board classes". That's all it would take to make it go away--for every organizer to say "enough of this silly shit". There's no sanctioning body with enough clout to force a pissing match at a keg party. But I'm not going to, and they're not going to. Instead, the niche group of people who are actually suited for 14 will just dink around at it until the racing side of SUP evaporates. That's ok, I still have my Rollerblades.