Standup Zone Forum

General Category => Technique => Topic started by: jjdub on August 23, 2017, 08:09:48 PM

Title: How to end ride on wave?
Post by: jjdub on August 23, 2017, 08:09:48 PM
If surfing a beach break and milking the wave all the way inside or not kicking out early and the wave has closed out, what are some preferred techniques for staying standing and getting the board turned around?  Sometimes the water is pretty shallow and stalling doesn't seem best, I also if I try to cut back into the whitewater and don't have enough speed I end up getting knocked off by the foam.
Is this just a bad spot too do anything or is there any advice for things to try?
Title: Re: How to end ride on wave?
Post by: TallDude on August 23, 2017, 09:25:17 PM
Once it's closed out, you can do a tail stall combined with a flat braced paddle blade extended out flat. I'll see if I have something on my GoPro that shows me doing it. Basically you'll feel a little drop in energy from the white water as you get closer to shore. I start to put weight way back on the tail, lay my paddle out off to my side, get in a lower stance, and put some weight on my paddle. It's kinda like putting a little peddle brakes on the board with the tail stall, and adding hand brake with the weighting of the paddle. The white water will just pass under you and you'll end up still kinda pointed towards the shore, but on a slightly turned angle towards your paddle. It's like a slow motion move. You have to slow your board down first. Once the wave has passed, you just do a pivot turn and paddle back out.
Title: Re: How to end ride on wave?
Post by: supthecreek on August 23, 2017, 09:37:00 PM
As Gerry Lopez says..."no need to ride a wave to the end"

Good logic in that...
don't get caught inside
don't end up in shallow water

but we rarely listen... we just gotta squeeze out every last drop. :)

I don't see a lot of good things happening if you try to stay upright in shallow water.... it's an awkward place to be.

I never stall... it puts the fins at risk
Jumping into shallow water is a good way to break something.

I would rather do a very shallow turn, flick the board over the back and fall back flat, into the wave.

I put the board on a rail, keeping the fins up, away from the bottom and flick" the board as I fall back.

It is possible to do this in pretty shallow water if you do it right.
Title: Re: How to end ride on wave?
Post by: TallDude on August 23, 2017, 10:18:43 PM
In the past 8 years or so I've been Sup surfing, I've been doing this move. Of the thousands of times I've done it, I've never hit my fin. If you know your break, the depth near shore and where the tides are, you can usually pull this off without getting wet. If it was a shore break, I'd be on my short board. I that situation I might do something similar to what Creek is showing. I usually do more of a pivot and drop on my board like I do prone surfing. The braking with a tail stall and paddle is a standard racing shore break finish technique. Your riding the white water straight towards the shore. Just before you hit the shore, you stick your tail and paddle and ride the deeper water on the back of the wave up to the shore. 

Here's a little video I just did. You can see me braking with the tail stall, and paddle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-eqru959Bs
Title: Re: How to end ride on wave?
Post by: stoneaxe on August 24, 2017, 06:41:56 AM
All of the above but I usually do a somersault over the back...... ::)

Sometimes the end is so smooth you feel like you know what you're doing. 7 or 8 years ago surfing in Wellfleet at the beachcomber there was a real nice bar that was sending long peeling waves into the cove...long, long ride on my old 12-6, (not old then). The wave closed and I did what talldude describes. Tail stall, back pressure with the paddle up onto the back of the wave, reached down and took of my leash as I rode the back into the beach....I walk forward and stepped off just as the nose touched........smoooooth. Whole bunch of folks watching including a few very cute women just in front of me. I was feeling good thinking how smooth it felt....turned to get my board and the next wave drove it sideways against my ankles and I fell face down in 3" of sandy wash and came up spitting sand and blowing water out my nostrils. My delusions of competence smashed I just laughed and asked if everyone enjoyed the show...... ;D
Title: Re: How to end ride on wave?
Post by: 1tuberider on August 24, 2017, 06:46:09 AM
If after the wave closes out I usually just wait until things calm down a little and bottom turn under the white water
into a kick out. I am usually standing and ready to paddle back out once over.

Normally on a closeout I am kicking out timely, or doing a rolly coaster and then the bottom turn kick out.



Title: Re: How to end ride on wave?
Post by: PonoBill on August 24, 2017, 08:24:15 AM
Two ways work for me with my geezer balance. The second one sounds nutty because it's counter-intuitive, but it's sometimes easier.

1. Tail stall, let the wave overtake you, turn hard on the back of the wave. It's basically a racing pivot turn without the buoy. Practice in deep water until you can do it cleanly and then step forward and paddle off.

2. Nose stall. Do a little step back to slow the board, let the wave start to pass you, then cross step to towards the nose, lift the tail to release the fin, turn, step back. When I cross step I almost always step back first with my front foot to get the distance right anyway, and if you're trying for a noseride you need to slow the board a little anyway. So it's like going for a noseride only the wave is gone and you're turning. Sounds hard, but it's pretty easy. I stole this move from Zane who does it with as much effort as I use walking to the refrigerator.
Title: Re: How to end ride on wave?
Post by: PabstSUP on August 24, 2017, 08:31:44 AM
I usually either stall and let the white water go under me or try to get a little speed and cut back into the whitewater to kick out. I usually like to milk small waves for everything they have as I actually enjoy the paddle back out over whitewater as a challenge.  In big stuff like last week's Gert Swell I'll usually kick out before the closeout (if possible). Today's dawn patrol waves were pretty small (knee-waist) but it was clean and peeling nicely and I managed to stay dry for about 12-15 waves (30min) before I fell in towards the end of a ride; a personal best as I usually try to see how long it takes for me to get my hair wet...  ;D
Title: Re: How to end ride on wave?
Post by: anonsurfer on August 24, 2017, 08:38:33 AM
I either do a tail stall like Tall Dude explains or a full turn/kick out back over the white water so you are paddling back out again. 

If you know your break and you are not too shallow you can try some new moves while riding the white water.  It's good practice and if you fall you haven't blown a good wave.  Try some foam climbs, go switch, go backside etc.   
Title: Re: How to end ride on wave?
Post by: Bean on August 24, 2017, 08:45:15 AM
I'm working on "exit strategies" that focus on getting the board back over the wave so that I'm not relying on my leash (also working on my cross step and nose-riding).

Discussed recently here, but a really cool way to get out of a small wave with your board is the "Island Pull-out".  Step to the nose of your board, let the tail slide and pop out on the other side.  (I've had limited success with this myself, but after 40+ years, I'm still a beginner.)
Title: Re: How to end ride on wave?
Post by: jjdub on August 24, 2017, 12:40:24 PM
Thanks Guys! Some excellent ideas. 
TallDude, thanks so much for the video and explanation!!  I'll be giving that a shot.
STC, that's usually what I end up doing, but I don't want to fall on stingray :D It sure does make for really nice shots though, especially of such a pretty board.
PB,  I've definitely trimmed up and noserode before and stalled out somehow.  I think that's exactly what you're describing and could be a great benefit to try and time it right.
Anon, If I had enough speed in a bottom turn, I think this makes a lot of sense as it's how I kick out if the wave hasn't closed out, or if I'm trying to get out quick right before a closeout.  But if I decide to go for the floater or finishing move and somehow not wipeout, I'd like to stay standing without riding the foam all the way in :D
Title: Re: How to end ride on wave?
Post by: PonoBill on August 24, 2017, 12:54:44 PM
Bean--#2 is what I'd call a "chicken Island Turn", that is, I do a 180 like an island turn, but only after the wave is past. It's really pretty easy. I nailed the first one I did after only four or five practice tries--and then blew a few hundred before I got my second one. The trick is to start the turn on the back of the wave while the board still has a little forward motion, and finish it in the trough, when it's stopped dead. And then don't stand there celebrating, because you need to get back to the middle and start paddling. Actually I paddle as I'm stepping back which aids stability or at least gives me something else to think about other than falling.
Title: Re: How to end ride on wave?
Post by: supthecreek on August 24, 2017, 03:25:33 PM

 that's usually what I end up doing, but I don't want to fall on stingray :D

ok, that makes sense....nasty buggers to get hit by, especially in the back. Yikes!
Go with the other methods and stay dry  :)
Title: Re: How to end ride on wave?
Post by: SUPcheat on August 24, 2017, 07:18:49 PM
One standard point of vigilance is to know the tide depths where you surf so you know the shallows and the times when they are actually shallow.  Don't go there when they are shallow.

The experts around where I go clearly only harvest the sweet fruit of the open face, and roll off to stay outside, preserving energy and sanity.  I still get some grommish pleasure from catching a foaming line of closeout white water, so I pay the price of getting caught in the soup, but I am getting better.
Title: Re: How to end ride on wave?
Post by: SUPsideATX on November 02, 2017, 10:38:26 AM
Bean--#2 is what I'd call a "chicken Island Turn", that is, I do a 180 like an island turn, but only after the wave is past. It's really pretty easy. I nailed the first one I did after only four or five practice tries--and then blew a few hundred before I got my second one. The trick is to start the turn on the back of the wave while the board still has a little forward motion, and finish it in the trough, when it's stopped dead. And then don't stand there celebrating, because you need to get back to the middle and start paddling. Actually I paddle as I'm stepping back which aids stability or at least gives me something else to think about other than falling.

This!
Title: Re: How to end ride on wave?
Post by: robcasey on January 17, 2018, 04:46:17 PM
I'm a big fan of finishing the ride with a fixed cross bow - essentially a nose rudder. While you still have some speed cross over, plant the blade, then hold it.  Only plant 1-2" if you're cruising fast, deeper for slower speed. If done right, you'll spin around nearly 180 degrees or close. If not, finish turn with a sweep stroke on your standard side.

Like all cross bows, keep knees bent, hands loose on paddle and look where you're going (not straight ahead).  Spinning right, look right.  It'll help you turn easier. The move can be one easy flowing movement, all finesse and less work. 

Try this turning method on flat water. Get your speed up, cross over and plant and hold. 

Or Tail stall, etc..
Title: Re: How to end ride on wave?
Post by: supsean on December 06, 2018, 05:01:38 PM
I'm a big fan of finishing the ride with a fixed cross bow - essentially a nose rudder. While you still have some speed cross over, plant the blade, then hold it.  Only plant 1-2" if you're cruising fast, deeper for slower speed. If done right, you'll spin around nearly 180 degrees or close. If not, finish turn with a sweep stroke on your standard side.

Like all cross bows, keep knees bent, hands loose on paddle and look where you're going (not straight ahead).  Spinning right, look right.  It'll help you turn easier. The move can be one easy flowing movement, all finesse and less work. 

Try this turning method on flat water. Get your speed up, cross over and plant and hold. 

Or Tail stall, etc..

I am intrigued rob. Is there a video or something that you learned this from? I can't quite visualize it, but I want to try it.
Title: Re: How to end ride on wave?
Post by: addapost on December 06, 2018, 05:47:09 PM
I'm a big fan of finishing the ride with a fixed cross bow - essentially a nose rudder. While you still have some speed cross over, plant the blade, then hold it.  Only plant 1-2" if you're cruising fast, deeper for slower speed. If done right, you'll spin around nearly 180 degrees or close. If not, finish turn with a sweep stroke on your standard side.

Like all cross bows, keep knees bent, hands loose on paddle and look where you're going (not straight ahead).  Spinning right, look right.  It'll help you turn easier. The move can be one easy flowing movement, all finesse and less work. 

Try this turning method on flat water. Get your speed up, cross over and plant and hold. 

Or Tail stall, etc..

I am intrigued rob. Is there a video or something that you learned this from? I can't quite visualize it, but I want to try it.

Its usually called a "cross nose draw". A quick google search finds a boatload of vids, here's a decent one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZONwp5dZplQ
Title: Re: How to end ride on wave?
Post by: TallDude on December 06, 2018, 06:06:21 PM
That's how you turn an unlimited board.
Title: Re: How to end ride on wave?
Post by: Badger on December 07, 2018, 02:07:51 AM
It's even easier on a shortboard because you don't even have to lift the paddle. Just swing it right around the nose.

But I always pull out of the wave before it closes out. I shake my head when I see people riding the whitewater in and then paddling all the way back out. Why waste all that time and energy?
Title: Re: How to end ride on wave?
Post by: supsean on December 07, 2018, 07:30:39 AM
I thought that was what you meant, I just had a lot of trouble visualizing it on a wave.

But as I think about it, I kind of - sort of - do it already. I do a back-wards stroke on the inside of my turn. But with that technique I find that I lose too much momentum. I will try doing it a bit earlier, and not back paddle, so as not to lose as much momentum.

thanks!
Title: Re: How to end ride on wave?
Post by: addapost on December 07, 2018, 09:08:23 AM
I thought that was what you meant, I just had a lot of trouble visualizing it on a wave.

But as I think about it, I kind of - sort of - do it already. I do a back-wards stroke on the inside of my turn. But with that technique I find that I lose too much momentum. I will try doing it a bit earlier, and not back paddle, so as not to lose as much momentum.

thanks!

Yes turning strokes done behind you tend to stop you while turning strokes done in front of you don't have nearly as much of a stopping effect. The cross-nose is a super aggressive turning stroke because of the torque stored in your body's core when you are in the correct position. In that cross-nose position you are also set up to easily get the blade back to the paddle side of the board and continue to turn with a forward sweep or dig in hard for an aggressive powerful forward stroke to move forward.
Title: Re: How to end ride on wave?
Post by: Bean on December 07, 2018, 10:12:10 AM
One of my favorite moves (as executed by Danny Ching 7 years ago)

https://youtu.be/uxrpCODi1TM?t=145
Title: Re: How to end ride on wave?
Post by: Bean on December 07, 2018, 10:23:53 AM
But this is how I usually end up
Title: Re: How to end ride on wave?
Post by: eastbound on December 07, 2018, 11:28:25 AM
sorry bean, i will stick to the second dismount approach too

cool, tho the way you link the you tube to start where you want it to--didnt know that worked
Title: Re: How to end ride on wave?
Post by: mrbig on December 07, 2018, 12:16:16 PM
Back dive closeout avoidance. Gotta work on paddle placement though..🤣
Title: Re: How to end ride on wave?
Post by: Bean on December 07, 2018, 12:24:02 PM
I agree, thats a useful feature EB.

For anyone who might not know, with the YouTube video running, advance to the spot you want to capture and choose the option:

"copy video url at current time"

Mr. Big, making a splash!
Title: Re: How to end ride on wave?
Post by: mrbig on December 07, 2018, 12:29:15 PM
Pressure in the boat. Dive! Dive!
Title: Re: How to end ride on wave?
Post by: Bean on December 07, 2018, 01:33:45 PM
The dismount is sometimes the best part ;D