Post by: clay on July 29, 2017, 04:54:56 PM
I have had a flat spell the past few weeks and looking forward to a good swell. Plenty of time to work on this idea I have been chewing on for a while.
I enjoyed putting this video together and am pleased with the outcome. I hope it is helpful:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeo_SgCWvLI
Post by: WhatsSUP on July 29, 2017, 06:09:30 PM
Thanks!!
Post by: Luc Benac on July 29, 2017, 06:35:34 PM
Would love to see more on different technical topics.
Post by: 805StandUp on July 30, 2017, 03:32:35 AM
Post by: Ichabod Spoonbill on July 30, 2017, 04:01:07 AM
Post by: NEplay on July 30, 2017, 05:48:14 AM
Post by: Night Wing on July 30, 2017, 07:09:30 AM
That was a great tutorial. Your sense of detail for explaining all the different wave conditions to get out beyond them was superb.
Your post should be made into a "stickey" because sooner or later, everyone experiences wave conditions which are depicted in your post and your post is worth it's wait in gold info wise.
Thanks for sharing your video.
Post by: Dusk Patrol on July 30, 2017, 08:01:33 AM
Post by: PonoBill on July 30, 2017, 09:12:25 AM
I think that my marginal balance and addiction to surfing actually help me refine my strategies for getting out in crap. If I'm at the beach with a board I'm going to try to get out, even if it looks ridiculous. And I do a lot of surfing in Oregon, where navigating the beach break is 90 percent of the skill required for surfing. The downside of knee paddling is that you can't see and get to the gaps and shoulders as quickly, and when you get hit with whitewater it's your whole body, not just your feet and shins that act as a sea anchor. So I do get up as quickly as is feasible and immediately start looking for spots to get through. But yes, when I get out I'm exhausted, so I rest outside for longer than might seem necessary--I know I'm going to have to do some of it again because I'm too greedy for the ride to turn out early.
It's almost axiomatic that if you find a flat spot in one wave, the one right behind it will peak at the same place, so you have to be ready to break to the side quickly and find the next spot. You can't fix on going straight out. The easiest path is almost always a series of S turns or a long angle. It's never a straight line.
Paddling out I keep my feet close to the stringer. Getting your feet close to the rails just pitches you off the board when it rolls. I often step back to lift the nose on a big wave, but I ALWAYS step forward as the nose goes up, even if it's moderate size. I've caught my board in my face or across my arm too many times not to automatically take that step. If you're keeping your feet close to the stringer you can take the step without torquing the board.
The most important thing to do to learn how to get through breaking waves is to watch the people who do it well. Dave Kalama goes through stuff like a hot knife through butter that would have me tumbling for a hundred yards. Kathy Shipman finds smooth shoulders where there simply aren't any. I watch what they do and try to copy.
Great video, thanks for taking the time. My notes above are mostly me talking to myself, trying to remember what I do and how it relates to your explanation.
Post by: SUPcheat on July 30, 2017, 09:51:18 AM
Post by: Stew on July 30, 2017, 10:47:17 AM
Post by: TallDude on July 30, 2017, 10:57:26 AM
Even if it's about to break, I use it like a sideways duck dive. Once the wave passes, just roll back on the board, tuck the paddle under and keep prone paddling out.
I went out at Huntington Beach Pier years ago with Ralph in OH close outs. A few guys didn't make it out. There was no chance if you tried to stand up or even knee paddle.
Another thing that changes my approach, is the shape of the nose on the board. On a more gun board, you don't have to pop the nose much. Just switch into a surf stance and keep your weight balanced. Rounded nose boards scare me in bigger surf. I learn the hard way years ago as well.
Post by: covesurfer on July 30, 2017, 11:10:58 AM
If the water is deep enough and/or you have a sand bottom, things are well covered. Most of our breaks on Maui have reefs and the consequences of a get off can be session-ending. Watching for five or ten minutes before picking a line to get out can be very important. Observing where it's breaking, how it's breaking and whether there are flat periods between sets can make the difference between success and failure in the effort to make it out. When you do fall, you have to fall flat and never, ever kick when you're remounting (lesson learned the hard way). You also should never stand on the bottom, even if you are wearing foot protection, as it damages the reef. I can't think of a single spot I go here where it's sandy - sure would be nice to have sand once in awhile!
Anyway, thanks for making this, it's pretty awesome.
Post by: digger71 on July 30, 2017, 11:13:09 AM
Another option which I use on bigger closed out waves is to just prone paddle and roll my board on edge as I hit the white water.This is me as well. As my boards get narrower, knee paddling gets harder. And as Pono mentioned above, taking the brunt of the wave to my nuts/chest doesn't work out well for me. So I'm either prone or standing
Post by: nalu-sup on July 30, 2017, 02:05:39 PM
I would like to share a few thoughts to reinforce and complement your great piece.
1. The most important thing to warn newbies about is to never take oncoming white water in a side by side stance. The odds of the a nose to nose meeting between the paddlers face and the nose of the board is way to high. Small white water is okay with a semi surf stance, and bigger white water is closer to a full surf stance. Like Pono said, as soon as the nose climbs up the white water, shift the weight hard onto the front of the board to drive the nose back down.
2. My own paddle technique is three steps; 1. Take a hard stroke at the base of the wave just before impact, 2. Then swing the blade out to the side to sweep it forward over the surface of the white water as a feathering brace. Even thought the board is not moving that fast, the white water is moving under your blade fast enough to provide a pretty solid brace, especially if you are adding blade speed by feathering it forward. 3. Since you have just brought the blade forward, it is now ready to immediately dig in for a power/bracing stroke to get you out of the turbulent hole you are in. Bottom line, you should always have a working blade on or in the water when going over white water. No paddles waving around in the air.
3. I am not a fan of taking white water head on while on my knees. Just like in a side by side stance, I have seen cases of the nose coming up to hit people in the face. Even it that does not happen, your body provides a big target for the whiter water to hit and drive you back. If I do happen to end up on my knees with whiter water approaching, I would prefer to go into a prone position. If I am on a board with a well pulled in nose, then I like to lean forward and grab the rails up by the nose with both hands, and then drop my head and try to drive the tip of nose under the wash, while lifting my hips up into a push up position so that my body does not present any frontal surface to the white water, and it can pass under or over. This is simply a less effective version of a short board duck dive. If the board has a wider nose that cannot be easily sunk, then I like TallDude's approach of rolling part way over so that the the board hits the white water tilted up on its edge for less impact area.
Clay, please keep all of this good stuff coming. There are lots of us out here that enjoy and appreciate your efforts.
Post by: Dusk Patrol on July 30, 2017, 02:15:16 PM
Post by: FRP on July 30, 2017, 04:02:38 PM
Great review and discussion. Do the techniques described apply to under 9' boards? Are there techniques that work better with shorter boards?
Bob
Post by: clay on August 01, 2017, 08:21:45 AM
Thanks Clay
Great review and discussion. Do the techniques described apply to under 9' boards? Are there techniques that work better with shorter boards?
Bob
You are welcome Bob. I am riding boards over 9' in bigger surf. There is another technique I have seen a few guys use on smaller boards - I guess it might be described as a standing duck dive - I have never tried it so don't know. The techniques in my video might actually be easier with smaller boards, as long as the nose is pointy, less volume to get smacked in the face with. Maybe try in smaller waves and gradually work your way up?
Post by: clay on August 01, 2017, 08:23:05 AM
I really appreciate all the great feedback. :)
Post by: gone_foiling on August 01, 2017, 10:44:55 AM
Post by: PabstSUP on August 01, 2017, 11:36:44 AM
Another thing I like to do for fun when it's big and there's no other surfers close by: after I've caught a wave, pull out cleanly and I'm paddling back out into a monster bearing down on me that I know I'm not going to successfully paddle over. I stroke up up the face of the wave and jump up off my board right before the lip hits me, launching myself about 10-15ft into the air. You get a fun trampoline-like shot over the back of the wave. However, this can be dangerous if you're timing isn't perfect so I don't really recommend it ;D
Post by: SUP Leave on August 03, 2017, 10:03:08 AM
I would just add emphasis to the patience section. That has been the biggest help to my surfing prone and standup. Take time to watch and read. I used to just charge out and see what happens, often arriving out the back exhausted and needing a long break. Now I wait waist deep (beach breaks) just calmly shoving the board over waves and develop a plan as well as an attempt to understand the rhythm of the sets. I don't always get it right, but have gotten to where my hair is dry after the paddle out about 75% of the time. When I am wrong it usually is getting stuck right at the last wave to get through.
Like Clay I will use knee paddling to sprint if I can't get to my feet quick enough, but I will never go over any size wave on my knees. I took a paddle across the face doing that. When I am on my knees I will go prone before the wave gets there and use the slicing method that Talldude talks about. This is a carry over from some of the big logs I ride prone. With the sup I just hug myself to the board with both hands on the rail (paddle under chest) and turn sideways to try and knife through. This keeps you from getting dragged backward very far.
Post by: Dusk Patrol on August 03, 2017, 11:29:24 AM
Post by: Newps on August 08, 2017, 09:00:25 AM
Post by: surfafrica on August 08, 2017, 03:20:57 PM
On my knees, I do a lot of cross-arms in front of me to avoid getting sacked by the wave if I decide to paddle over them while they are breaking. If the wave is too big to go over (ie, I'll over-compress my knees & torso or will risk the board hitting my head) I hop off, quickly turn my back to the wave with my board facing the beach, and will reverse duck dive using my tail pad kick as a tail handle (when my boards were bigger, I installed a tail handle). With the smaller/lighter boards, spinning them back around after the reverse duck dive is much more doable.
Post by: SUP Leave on August 09, 2017, 08:54:11 AM
I occasionally do the move where you spin backwards and sit all the way on the tail pointing the nose up and lean back into the wave, then you can spin and go prone to keep moving. It works on small to medium waves.
Post by: supthecreek on August 09, 2017, 12:05:32 PM
You used great video clips of pros to show what you describe, then add in some of yourself from another angle.... perfect to get your points across!
Nice graphics as well, I enjoyed them.
A+
Covesufer is spot on..... watch the conditions before you enter the water.
Learn the best lane to paddle out it.
Use the rip to get you out faster.... paddle WITH the rip, not straight out, to get the most benefit from the moving water.
SUPs paddle very fast, so waiting for a lull may allow you to paddle out without getting hit at all.
Post by: TallDude on August 09, 2017, 01:43:57 PM
I think there is a time to throw in the towel, before you get beat. I was at SanO one day during a big swell. Boards were coming in broken. It was pretty much walled off as far as the eye could see. You couldn't see anyone out because the well OH sets just lined up one after another. I was parked next to Colin McPhillips. We were talking and he was doing his stretches. I was on the fence about what kinda beating I was willing to take that morning. Colin paddles out and was just taking a beating. Me and a couple other guys of just watched him for about 20 minutes. He just got hammered, and really struggle to even prone paddle out. He finally made it and was out of sight.
We all decided, if Colin barely made it after 20 minutes, it'll be worse for us. We went to DoHo instead and had a blast:)
Post by: angelasup on September 02, 2017, 04:21:33 PM
Post by: PonoBill on September 02, 2017, 04:44:05 PM
Great tip on the rips Creek. It's like a free ride out.
I think there is a time to throw in the towel, before you get beat. I was at SanO one day during a big swell. Boards were coming in broken. It was pretty much walled off as far as the eye could see. You couldn't see anyone out because the well OH sets just lined up one after another. I was parked next to Colin McPhillips. We were talking and he was doing his stretches. I was on the fence about what kinda beating I was willing to take that morning. Colin paddles out and was just taking a beating. Me and a couple other guys of just watched him for about 20 minutes. He just got hammered, and really struggle to even prone paddle out. He finally made it and was out of sight.
We all decided, if Colin barely made it after 20 minutes, it'll be worse for us. We went to DoHo instead and had a blast:)
SanO is kind of strange when it gets big and closed out. It's worth the effort to get out, because you can find some awesome waves, but getting out is the trick, and IMHO you can only do it standing. There are a lot of slots of green water in the walls, and if you see one, you can turn and paddle like a madman for it. Get over that one, and there's another, but it's not behind it, it's twenty yards to the side with head high whitewater on each side. I've picked my way out when there were just a few people out, and paid some dues to make it. But once you have, as long as you don't get greedy and ride in to the sandbars, you can catch empty waves for hours. Of course when SanO is big there's also the occasional set that comes in much too square to the beach that just drops with a thump, one after the other. Get caught inside for that and you're gonna get pummeled.
I find Cardiff to be oddly difficult to get out sometimes. If you're close to the rivermouth the current plus the sets standing right up can be pretty impenetrable. I just let the current and the rip angle me away and try to survive the waves breaking in my face. As long as you stay standing, you get out, but Pocahontas is not an option--you'll be driven backwards until your fins bury.
Post by: Cardiff Sweeper on September 26, 2017, 07:18:12 PM
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Post by: Paddleboard on October 24, 2017, 07:27:03 PM
Post by: clay on October 27, 2017, 07:38:28 AM