Standup Zone Forum
Stand Up Paddle => Gear Talk => Sneak Peeks, Rumors, and Wish Lists => Topic started by: burchas on July 25, 2017, 08:25:28 AM
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Look what popped up in my garage this morning...
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Seriously! you dog, you beat DJ to a new 2018 Maliko......
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Nice, is that going to be on the river today?
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Sweet! How do you like that Black Project fin?
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Looks awesome! And at 26" wide I can fantasize about paddling it!
I suspect by the time you see this she'll be all wet!
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nice. enjoy.
Let us know how it compares to your Badfish.
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Very lucky. I'd love to try one. They look great and should appeal much more broadly than just to racers. White (or near-white) deckpads are a disaster though. I suffered the Naish white pads for years (e.g. Glide models from about 2009).
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Nice color scheme on that board. I'm thinking it is a Naish 2018 year model. Take her out and tell us how she performs.
BTW, thanks for sharing the photos.
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nice burchas...
I tested the 2017 14x26, it surf/dw was good and soo stable.
Let us know the paddle speed.
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Sweet! Can't wait to hear how it paddles. 8)
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You are now getting to be a celebrity :-)
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10212234879020259&set=a.4186123264468.158878.1626125184&type=3&theater (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10212234879020259&set=a.4186123264468.158878.1626125184&type=3&theater)
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More rocker than the 17' and previous model's?
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I was out on it for a good part of today. This board is a pure pleasure!
Some details:
The board has just a little more volume, 264 vs 261 of last years model. So still good.
Although the overall look of the board seems similar to last years model (outside of
color scheme) there are many changes both top and bottom.
Start with the nose area, Nose rocker is 1inch higher than last years model.
Although the hump on the nose is still there, it is more balanced than last year,
they spread the volume more evenly moving some of it farther back and actually
making the board slightly thinner than last year. The edges on the bottom part of
the nose are much more rounded.
On the water it translates to an even better upwind/downwind/sidewind performance.
This nose is the best in the business among all the all-water boards I've seen and
tested (and I tested a lot) IMO. It just slices through the water and keeps a lot of momentum.
You can pearl it and keep paddling and it will popup and keep the glide. Could not make it
nose dive yet.
The rails saw big changes from last years model. Back third of the board, rails are still sharp
but then turn rounder and rounder and tucked-in even more towards the standing area and forward.
That translates into an impressive secondary stability. I couldn't flip the board eventhough I tried
hard. This also seem to improve rough water behavior, the board is more fluid through side chop,
and chop in general.
Bottom shape also saw some changes. The front section is more rounded than last year and
the double concave is less pronounced, especially in the mid section. Also the V in the third back
part seem less pronounced than last year though I'm not 100% sure on that.
There's not much bad you can say about this board.
Finbox placement is still too far back, would probably move it 6" or so forward.
Didn't care much for the traction pad either, especially around the standing area.
I would probably replace it.
Today was a light wind day, a downbreezer if you will and I still had my record time for the
Viento run at 1:29:46. I replaced the Black Project Sonic fin that came with it to a Larry Allison
GT Moray to get more drive as the wind was slow. Can't wait for tomorrow double downwinder.
That's about it. some pics and videos to come
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Nice.
It starts to sound like a faster (in flat) Bark Vapor and an easier to downwind 2017 Blackfish.
Definitely a board to look for. Sometime having so much choice (if you have the $$$ available) become mind boggling.
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I saw your board sitting lonely on the trailer this afternoon. Pretty light. It will be interesting to see what it does tomorrow. I'm going to attempt to try both the Sunova 27 and the 2017 Starboard Allstar. I tried the 2015 Allstar that Admin is selling today in an upwind/downwind past wells Island. Impressive board. I think it has way too much fin, so I'll try to squeeze in a up/down with something small and squirrelly. OC6 in the morning, two downwinders and an up/down. I should sleep well tomorrow night.
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Hmm, so the question is, have they truly abandoned the Javelin flatwater then (as this does indeed look like its been tailored more for offshore and not for all round use).
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Gorgeous board!
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Hmm, so the question is, have they truly abandoned the Javelin flatwater then (as this does indeed look like its been tailored more for offshore and not for all round use).
How many prestigious races worldwide are there that take place in pure flat water and/or their top athletes want to take part in? Exactly. So why bother with a flat water board?
Possibly also there will be an increasing specialisation of the brands. Naish is a windsurf brand, with a strong ocean heritage. Perhaps they will let the (inland) outdoor/kayak brands take the flat water market. They have the distribution networks for that, and understand that market. Naish know the ocean market.
Just speculating.
It's all about foils and inflatables now anyway ;)
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It's all about foils and inflatables now anyway ;)
It's all about foils and inflatables now anyway regretfully ::)
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It's all about foils and inflatables now anyway ;)
It's all about foils and inflatables now anyway regretfully ::)
Well, what the big brands do now to keep their income revenue flowing is probably hardly relevant to real SUP enthusiasts. We'll move to customs anyway, just like in the surf industry, and carry on paddling. SUP racing has probably already jumped the shark, and the Olympic wrangling will just be another nail in that coffin.
What has been remarkable this year in the U.K. has been the huge influx of new people to SUP. But they are a different breed than before. Whereas for the last decade, SUP in the U.K. has been taken up by people who already had a background in some other watersport, the people who have been taking up SUP over the last year in particular have little or no watersports background. Their horizons and aspirations are quite limited from the perspective of the old hands. They just want to pootle around on a cheap inflatable for 30 mins, or go for a snooze-cruise with the kids or dog and stop for coffee. They are not really aware of SUP as a sport. It is a recreation to them, and they want to do it as cheaply as possible. They are buying their boards at Costco etc, and paying less for them than the enthusiasts pay for a paddle. These people are largely not potential Naish customers. Even the Naish inflatables cost more than they are willing to pay. The N1SCO race series has been a great success, but I suspect it isn't generating many new Naish customers: people are just renting the boards for the race because it's cheaper than renting them at the local beach for an hour.
So, racing has got too serious now for wide appeal, and the gear is becoming ever more difficult to use and more expensive every year (strangely, not cheaper...). So that is limiting hard board sales. Surf SUPs are only a very small part of the market. And at the lower end, the volume sales are going to the new budget inflatable brands and Costco Wavestorm-type cheapo ultra-heavy hard boards. So the bigger brands probably are seeing their market share squeezed there as well. So, where is the profit to be made?
At the other end of the scale are those ultra-competitive types who have seen Kai best all the SUPs on a foil at Maliko, and so have decided that that is now the top of the food chain, so will pour money into that for a couple of seasons. This will suck out of the SUP market a lot of people who'd otherwise be buying top-end race SUPs. So these are not new customers.
So we are looking at an increasingly fragmented and specialised market on the one hand, and competition from uber-cheap brands to cater to the volume sales on the other, with it being anyone's guess as to how things will go in the next couple of years. Under those circumstances it would be unsurprising if the established brands consolidated around what made them established brands in the first place, and looked to trim the fat and reduce financial risks. So bye-bye Javelin, I'm afraid you weren't making enough money and don't appeal too much to our key demographic (ocean athletes).
But as I say, this is all pure speculation.
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your flatout fun/testing PonoBill :D
and let us know what you think of the sanova and try to test the new maliko also?
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@Area10.....I think your comments are spot on. I see alot of folks that want to "try" sup and they really don't get any training or experience before they buy. So often they don't do well, and give it up quickly. Frankly I don't see how the top brands that build quality products can survive. But I sure hope they do. I've only been in the sport for a few years, but even with my limited exposure I can see that top brands such as SIC have a struggle coming up with new ways to get people into the sport in an affordable way, and still be able to pay the bills. I assume that is why they allowed BIC to get involved. (much like BMW taking over MINI production).
Like any sport and all sports, there are peaks and valleys and the tide ebbs and flows. SUP is the main "stoke" in my life at the moment and I love to talk it up with anyone that wants to listen or give it a try. I just hope that top companies will continue to survive and build top quality products that differentiate them from the run of the mill mass production stuff that shows up at Costco, etc.
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Double downwinder today. Not great conditions and strong current according to PonoBill but
still enough to break my personal best for Viento again at 1:28.
This board is fast! I'm able to hang-out or leave behind people I usually come behind.
I was sure I'll be able to nose dive it today as there was some good size swell. I was coming
off a big swell planted the entire nose in at about 8mph but was still able to control the board,
no dive. Nose popped-up and the board kept going.
One thing I noticed today with the big swells is, the board has A LOT of flex in it, it was very
noticeable. I never felt this kind of flex before. I'm not sure what to make of it, I'll have to
explore further.
My concern about the board fin box placement was noticeable today as well.
The box is located 6" from the tail, even on the biggest swell I was never that far behind on
the board.
It is clear the fin placement is somewhat stalling board speed on the bumps and one really have
to ride a very small fin like 6" or less to compensate for that.
The problem is it will only work on killer wind days, if there is enough paddle engagement like
today where you need a fin with enough base for drive, this works against you.
If I'll ever end up with this board, the first thing I'll do is move its fin box (and of course add
the Larry Allison setup with ventral assist). But that would only be a 24" wide board, this 26"
is way too stable for me.
Hoping for better conditions tomorrow.
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Try a Focus Bluefin. It's a similar shape but has the fin box further front, a wee bit more tail kick and a nose that comes up quicker if you poke it. IMO more fun DW. Not quite as quick on flats.
Only hassle is it's heavier. The lightness of the Maliko is a dream.
So, compared to a Badfish?
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Very interesting, burchas. Flex has often been a bit of a Naish issue over the years. I'd have hoped that he full PVC wrap for 2018 would have helped. But perhaps in order to compensate for the extra weight they've compromised in materials elsewhere? A kind of durability/stiffness trade-off? Mind you, new boards often seem to wobble a bit for some reason, and sometimes this seems to settle down after a while. I am at a total loss as to why this might be. And it's hard to make a light board that doesn't flex at all downwind. If you press the front deck hard with your finger, how much does it give?
On the fin placement, I wonder if the reason for it might become apparent if you were on flat water or doing lots of buoy turns in a race, (or even perhaps being drafted), rather than downwinding it. After all, this is a do-it-all board, so there are going to be compromises somewhere. And if you keep putting in PBs downwind, maybe it's not slowing you down too much after all?
And "too stable"? Lucky you. Could it be that it is this stability that is one of the main reasons why you are so fast on the board? I find that stability = fast average speeds when downwinding. You are not wasting energy balancing, and can keep an even keel so are not scrubbing off speed sinking the rails (there are however disadvantages in bump-catching and top speed but these can be compensated for by the other advantages). You might find the 24 would actually be slower for you - but only one way to find out :)
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It's all about foils and inflatables now anyway ;)
It's all about foils and inflatables now anyway regretfully ::)
Well, what the big brands do now to keep their income revenue flowing is probably hardly relevant to real SUP enthusiasts. We'll move to customs anyway, just like in the surf industry, and carry on paddling. SUP racing has probably already jumped the shark, and the Olympic wrangling will just be another nail in that coffin.
What has been remarkable this year in the U.K. has been the huge influx of new people to SUP. But they are a different breed than before. Whereas for the last decade, SUP in the U.K. has been taken up by people who already had a background in some other watersport, the people who have been taking up SUP over the last year in particular have little or no watersports background. Their horizons and aspirations are quite limited from the perspective of the old hands. They just want to pootle around on a cheap inflatable for 30 mins, or go for a snooze-cruise with the kids or dog and stop for coffee. They are not really aware of SUP as a sport. It is a recreation to them, and they want to do it as cheaply as possible. They are buying their boards at Costco etc, and paying less for them than the enthusiasts pay for a paddle. These people are largely not potential Naish customers. Even the Naish inflatables cost more than they are willing to pay. The N1SCO race series has been a great success, but I suspect it isn't generating many new Naish customers: people are just renting the boards for the race because it's cheaper than renting them at the local beach for an hour.
So, racing has got too serious now for wide appeal, and the gear is becoming ever more difficult to use and more expensive every year (strangely, not cheaper...). So that is limiting hard board sales. Surf SUPs are only a very small part of the market. And at the lower end, the volume sales are going to the new budget inflatable brands and Costco Wavestorm-type cheapo ultra-heavy hard boards. So the bigger brands probably are seeing their market share squeezed there as well. So, where is the profit to be made?
At the other end of the scale are those ultra-competitive types who have seen Kai best all the SUPs on a foil at Maliko, and so have decided that that is now the top of the food chain, so will pour money into that for a couple of seasons. This will suck out of the SUP market a lot of people who'd otherwise be buying top-end race SUPs. So these are not new customers.
So we are looking at an increasingly fragmented and specialised market on the one hand, and competition from uber-cheap brands to cater to the volume sales on the other, with it being anyone's guess as to how things will go in the next couple of years. Under those circumstances it would be unsurprising if the established brands consolidated around what made them established brands in the first place, and looked to trim the fat and reduce financial risks. So bye-bye Javelin, I'm afraid you weren't making enough money and don't appeal too much to our key demographic (ocean athletes).
But as I say, this is all pure speculation.
Give me a month and I'll give you some hard numbers on this. At a current glance, number sin races are not increasing for any class or gender and the numbers in N1sco are up. The number of hire boards is about the same as last year but its too soon to know how many turn into owners.
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Re the fin box position.. IMO the distance from the tail is relevant to the tail shape..
A narrower or pin'ier tail requires the box to be a little more up from the tail.. and a wider squared off tail (like the Maliko) is like chopping the tail off a more pin'ier board so they end up in a very similar position.
Thanks for the pictures and info re the new Maliko.. I can't wait till they arrive in Oz (in about 6 weeks).. Do you think there's any more 'quick tip' than last years board?
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Very interesting, burchas. Flex has often been a bit of a Naish issue over the years. I'd have hoped that he full PVC wrap for 2018 would have helped. But perhaps in order to compensate for the extra weight they've compromised in materials elsewhere? A kind of durability/stiffness trade-off? Mind you, new boards often seem to wobble a bit for some reason, and sometimes this seems to settle down after a while. I am at a total loss as to why this might be. And it's hard to make a light board that doesn't flex at all downwind. If you press the front deck hard with your finger, how much does it give?
On the fin placement, I wonder if the reason for it might become apparent if you were on flat water or doing lots of buoy turns in a race, (or even perhaps being drafted), rather than downwinding it. After all, this is a do-it-all board, so there are going to be compromises somewhere. And if you keep putting in PBs downwind, maybe it's not slowing you down too much after all?
And "too stable"? Lucky you. Could it be that it is this stability that is one of the main reasons why you are so fast on the board? I find that stability = fast average speeds when downwinding. You are not wasting energy balancing, and can keep an even keel so are not scrubbing off speed sinking the rails (there are however disadvantages in bump-catching and top speed but these can be compensated for by the other advantages). You might find the 24 would actually be slower for you - but only one way to find out :)
The sidewinder with its full pvc wrap flexes more than any of my other boards. It's lighter than the vapor and the whiplash by a good 5 pounds so that makes sense. The 404 at the same weight though didn't have as much flex. It does have a recess deck however and that is probably the difference. While I doubt the flex has any effect on speed I always cringe a little when it slams incoming chop or smacks down paddling over a wave in the surf.
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Try a Focus Bluefin. It's a similar shape but has the fin box further front, a wee bit more tail kick and a nose that comes up quicker if you poke it. IMO more fun DW. Not quite as quick on flats.
Only hassle is it's heavier. The lightness of the Maliko is a dream.
So, compared to a Badfish?
Tried the Bluefin 14x23.5. Liked it a lot. The new Shape looks even more promising where they
took some of its "Boxiness" from the nose section. Buoy turns were much sharper on it.
Didn't have the chance to try on a full on downwinder but I can tell you that for me, in rough
water the Maliko will win hands down.
As for comparison to my Badfish? I'm sure my Badfish has its advantages but I just can't think
of one right now ;).
BTW, the new Naish feels heavier than previous model. Not a fact, just how it feels to me.
On the fin placement, I wonder if the reason for it might become apparent if you were on flat water or doing lots of buoy turns in a race, (or even perhaps being drafted), rather than downwinding it. After all, this is a do-it-all board, so there are going to be compromises somewhere. And if you keep putting in PBs downwind, maybe it's not slowing you down too much after all?
And "too stable"? Lucky you. Could it be that it is this stability that is one of the main reasons why you are so fast on the board? I find that stability = fast average speeds when downwinding. You are not wasting energy balancing, and can keep an even keel so are not scrubbing off speed sinking the rails (there are however disadvantages in bump-catching and top speed but these can be compensated for by the other advantages). You might find the 24 would actually be slower for you - but only one way to find out :)
I had a long flatwater session with it, tracking was never an issue with this board even with
a small Black Project Sonic fin, buoy turns turns however, could be sharper, moving the fin
forward will definitely help with that.
As for stability, you're very right. I'm pretty sure the 24 will be slower for me in certain conditions
but one of the reason I go for narrow boards is to keep challenging my self, I find it fun and
satisfying. If I want to relax or be more comfortable in bigger conditions, I'll use other boards.
Re the fin box position.. IMO the distance from the tail is relevant to the tail shape..
A narrower or pin'ier tail requires the box to be a little more up from the tail.. and a wider squared off tail (like the Maliko) is like chopping the tail off a more pin'ier board so they end up in a very similar position.
Thanks for the pictures and info re the new Maliko.. I can't wait till they arrive in Oz (in about 6 weeks).. Do you think there's any more 'quick tip' than last years board?
As far as I understand it, the other aspect to take under consideration for fin placement outside
of tail width is tail kick and release.
The double concave on this board turns into a V at about 30inches off the tail which seems to
align with the foot positioning on the steepest bumps and most comfortable point for buoy turns.
I would think you'd want the fin closer to this point for both cases in order to have better control
of the board. That's just my feeling but on my SIC board it made all the difference.
I'm not sure I know what you mean by 'quick tip', please explain. I'll try to put more pictures
and videos.
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"I'm not sure I know what you mean by 'quick tip', please explain."
A lot of the newer boards like the NSP's have a more rounder rail now and their initial stability is compromised giving it a 'quick tip' feel and it's not till you tip the board a it way over that the secondary stability kicks in.. Dugouts also feel this way.. I'm hoping that the rounded softer rails towards the front of the board hasn't caused it to loose some of its initial stability.
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"I'm not sure I know what you mean by 'quick tip', please explain."
A lot of the newer boards like the NSP's have a more rounder rail now and their initial stability is compromised giving it a 'quick tip' feel and it's not till you tip the board a it way over that the secondary stability kicks in.. Dugouts also feel this way.. I'm hoping that the rounded softer rails towards the front of the board hasn't caused it to loose some of its initial stability.
I think they struck a good balance in that regard. I never got the tippy feeling from that board
under any condition. If you look at the pictures you can see that the rail still got some edge around
the standing area but its the way they tucked it in that give you the slight roll feel. Either way,
I'm not sure I'll much of a help to you in that case:
- I'm relatively much shorter smaller frame.
- I'm used to boards with a lot of roll and I usually prefer it.
- I usually ride a 24" wide so the 26" will feel very sable regardless.
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Hello Burchas,
While you are trying many new exciting boards, would you have teh chance to try the "new" 404 Go-Go?
It looks like a good board in the line of the Maliko and possibly Vapor (slower).
Cheers,
Luc
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As promised, a little downwind video with the new Maliko.
https://vimeo.com/227921023
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Hello Burchas,
While you are trying many new exciting boards, would you have teh chance to try the "new" 404 Go-Go?
It looks like a good board in the line of the Maliko and possibly Vapor (slower).
Cheers,
Luc
This board wasn't even on my radar but looking at the specs makes me wonder why.
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Plenty of media on the new Maliko available now. It's confirmed there is no flat water board. Realistic insight into the market or lack of worthwhile development ?
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Based of what I've seen the past year, the market has spoken, can't remember even seeing the Javelin even once
on major races. Even on our own race 25 miler around Manhattan which is flat water this time of year, Kai went with
the Maliko both last year and this year.
so I do think it's realistic insight into the market, but imo, lack of worthwhile development is almost a given in the small
race market, better focus on one model and hype the hell out of it which seem to do the trick because the Maliko was flying
of he shelf before it even landed, could not find it anywhere, not even for rent or demo. Got lucky in Hood River.
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this is interesting on Naish as all other brands has flat water race board.
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^ cool
They got good racers too.
BTW the SUP world championships starting tomorrow or saturday in copenhagen. Wonder what board casper will use. Worlds is still 12'6
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I am somewhat surprised that the Javelin has been dropped for 2018. I thought it was pretty cool looking and I liked the way it cruised on flat water...and it was very light. So maybe the price of left over Javelins need to drop considerably since it is no longer the "in" board? ):...........
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^ cool
They got good racers too.
BTW the SUP world championships starting tomorrow or saturday in copenhagen. Wonder what board casper will use. Worlds is still 12'6
You got your answer. He won on last year's Maliko, didn't go with the new model.
Female finalist Annie Reikert also used the older model.
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Plenty of media on the new Maliko available now. It's confirmed there is no flat water board. Realistic insight into the market or lack of worthwhile development ?
You get a good view into this at the Copenhagen ISA worlds. I'd say realistic insight into the market.
https://youtu.be/bdTHjtKJkQM?t=4h42m32s
Men's start at 4:44
Not a lot of displacement noses left at all other than the killer Starboard Sprint. Maybe 3Bay Flatwater, RRD close to a displacement nose, an older SIX x-14 and an older javelin (definitely not a competitive rider on that one).
You also get a good view of just how choppy it gets behind the leader group.
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Based of what I've seen the past year, the market has spoken, can't remember even seeing the Javelin even once
on major races. Even on our own race 25 miler around Manhattan which is flat water this time of year, Kai went with
the Maliko both last year and this year.
so I do think it's realistic insight into the market, but imo, lack of worthwhile development is almost a given in the small
race market, better focus on one model and hype the hell out of it which seem to do the trick because the Maliko was flying
of he shelf before it even landed, could not find it anywhere, not even for rent or demo. Got lucky in Hood River.
Being part of Naishs team, I was told that the top pro's never did the races that warranted use of the board and that when they did, they felt they were faster on the Maliko. Make of that what you will. . They have sold a few in the UK but I personally felt its lack of volume and highly specialised use made it a very small earner for Naish.
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Being part of Naishs team, I was told that the top pro's never did the races that warranted use of the board and that when they did, they felt they were faster on the Maliko. Make of that what you will. . They have sold a few in the UK but I personally felt its lack of volume and highly specialised use made it a very small earner for Naish.
That makes sense. I understand where you coming from as rider on the larger side. You'd
probably be better off on the Starboards. For me the low volume just felt right from the start
on well designed board.
Would not surprise me at all to learn that Maliko is small earner, the race market being so small
and specialized in and of it self can justify the lack of worthwhile development. To make things
even more complicated, Casper just "wiped the floor" with all the highly specialized Starboard Sprints and he did it on last year's downwind board, so I'm not sure what to make of it yet.
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... To make things
even more complicated, Casper just "wiped the floor" with all the highly specialized Starboard Sprints and he did it on last year's downwind board, so I'm not sure what to make of it yet.
For 200m sprints.
I don't find that complicated at all. I think they go so fast in sprints it makes sense to use a board optimized for planing.
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To make things
even more complicated, Casper just "wiped the floor" with all the highly specialized Starboard Sprints and he did it on last year's downwind board, so I'm not sure what to make of it yet.
Paddler 90% Board 10% ?
If you find a board design that works for you and you are comfortable with, just keep paddling it and you will get better on it regardless of the conditions ?
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To make things
even more complicated, Casper just "wiped the floor" with all the highly specialized Starboard Sprints and he did it on last year's downwind board, so I'm not sure what to make of it yet.
Paddler 90% Board 10% ?
If you find a board design that works for you and you are comfortable with, just keep paddling it and you will get better on it regardless of the conditions ?
Well look at it this way, I've recently picked the board I'm going to race on in 2018 and the performance gain from my data I've gathered so far is roughly showing a 1 minute saving for every 20 minutes paddled over my old one in laymans terms. That's huge.
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For 200m sprints.
I don't find that complicated at all. I think they go so fast in sprints it makes sense to use a board optimized for planing.
And yet the Starboard is anything but
To make things
even more complicated, Casper just "wiped the floor" with all the highly specialized Starboard Sprints and he did it on last year's downwind board, so I'm not sure what to make of it yet.
Paddler 90% Board 10% ?
If you find a board design that works for you and you are comfortable with, just keep paddling it and you will get better on it regardless of the conditions ?
Yes Luc, That about sums it up IMO
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Well look at it this way, I've recently picked the board I'm going to race on in 2018 and the performance gain from my data I've gathered so far is roughly showing a 1 minute saving for every 20 minutes paddled over my old one in laymans terms. That's huge.
Yes but is it because you are finally getting the board design that works for you and from there on there will be no or minimal gain (coming from a new board)?
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More than the model, if he is still paddling a 12.6 for long distance race (outside of a 200m sprint that is quite specialised) does it still make the 14 versus 12.6 argument relevant for a top paddler like Casper? In Denmark,he did not paddle the distance race to maximise his chances at the sprint so difficult to know? Statistically the SB Sprint should win as they seem to have been over-represented :-)
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More than the model, if he is still paddling a 12.6 for long distance race (outside of a 200m sprint that is quite specialised) does it still make the 14 versus 12.6 argument relevant for a top paddler like Casper? Did he paddled the distance race or abstained to maximise his chances at the sprint?
It makes a difference in a sense that elite riders want to break records and if a slightly faster
design will allow them to do so then they'll want to use that.
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Well look at it this way, I've recently picked the board I'm going to race on in 2018 and the performance gain from my data I've gathered so far is roughly showing a 1 minute saving for every 20 minutes paddled over my old one in laymans terms. That's huge.
Are you going to tell us which board you picked? Promise I won't tell anyone :D
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More than the model, if he is still paddling a 12.6 for long distance race (outside of a 200m sprint that is quite specialised) does it still make the 14 versus 12.6 argument relevant for a top paddler like Casper? Did he paddled the distance race or abstained to maximise his chances at the sprint?
It makes a difference in a sense that elite riders want to break records and if a slightly faster
design will allow them to do so then they'll want to use that.
Agreed but it just seems unorthodox that Casper is choosing a 12.6 outside of the in and out of surf. Would you not expect that he could be even faster on a 14'?
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More than the model, if he is still paddling a 12.6 for long distance race (outside of a 200m sprint that is quite specialised) does it still make the 14 versus 12.6 argument relevant for a top paddler like Casper? Did he paddled the distance race or abstained to maximise his chances at the sprint?
It makes a difference in a sense that elite riders want to break records and if a slightly faster
design will allow them to do so then they'll want to use that.
Agreed but it just seems unorthodox that Casper is choosing a 12.6 outside of the in and out of surf. Would you not expect that he could be even faster on a 14'?
I think 12.6 and under is mandatory for this competition.
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I think 12.6 and under is mandatory for this competition.
I knew there must be a simple and "rational" explanation. Cheers.
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I think 12.6 and under is mandatory for this competition.
I knew there must be a simple and "rational" explanation. Cheers.
"rational" it is ;D:
"SUP RACING BOARD SIZE: Clarification of Decision
After examining the feedback from our ISA Members regarding preferred board size, the ISA has decided to continue the use of 12’6 SUP Racing Boards for 2017. The reasoning is as follows:
The results of the survey of ISA Members were inconclusive and do currently reflect a preference for 14’
Adopting 14’ would clearly favor the developed nations who have the means and resources to ship larger boards to DEN
12’6” boards are more suited to the wave/ocean conditions in Vorupør, Cold Hawaii
The question of the best world-wide solution for the boards requires further study and the ISA will take active steps moving forward to review, monitor and consult the stakeholders as we look ahead to future WSUPPCs"
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No wonder there were a few really big guys that did not seem to do very good on the distance race....
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As almost all the other races in the world align on 14' for racing I think it's only a matter of time before ISA goes with 14'.
Especially for any racer below the top 20 it is too expensive for them to have both 14' for all races and 12'6 for the worlds.
I'm guessing is that this is the last at 12'6.
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Well look at it this way, I've recently picked the board I'm going to race on in 2018 and the performance gain from my data I've gathered so far is roughly showing a 1 minute saving for every 20 minutes paddled over my old one in laymans terms. That's huge.
Are you going to tell us which board you picked? Promise I won't tell anyone :D
I can after 9/9/17. ;)
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Well look at it this way, I've recently picked the board I'm going to race on in 2018 and the performance gain from my data I've gathered so far is roughly showing a 1 minute saving for every 20 minutes paddled over my old one in laymans terms. That's huge.
Are you going to tell us which board you picked? Promise I won't tell anyone :D
I can after 9/9/17. ;)
Sounds good. Be sure to post it with the gains in performance you measured.
I wonder if the color blue has anything to do with performance gains ;)
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Casper apparently did not race in the 18 km like most other lads so he was not fatigued for his specialty.
No surprise the dugout Sprint garnered good results. That shape is mega efficient for flatter conditions.
ukgm you must be stoked with that much speed increase. ;)
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Annabel is amazing and def class of the field racing an unfamiliar board. Whether on an All Star or whatever. On flat the Sprint should be better. In chop the All Star should be better. So getting a win racing the AS is that much more impressive over all those Sprints. Leading is that much harder with the less efficient All Star.
You do after a while finally get used to that quick tip feeling paddling the 23 and 21.5 widths. But best to check out firsthand as these race boards can be very tippy to those unaccustomed. Annabel shows it is all about the paddler -> and very much less about the board. Kudos.
All these full-on specialized race boards are def not for the faint of heart or those that cannot balance in them. Very fast if you can stay dry and put full power down. Otherwise slow to very slow for those that cannot.
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Annabel has such good endurance and balance she can do this headstand right after winning on her loaner All Star. The footage is pretty good and would recommend watching the vid to get a few technique tips from the pros. Always learn a lot. ;)
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Casper apparently did not race in the 18 km like most other lads so he was not fatigued for his specialty.
No surprise the dugout Sprint garnered good results. That shape is mega efficient for flatter conditions.
ukgm you must be stoked with that much speed increase. ;)
I am. Particularly as I'm not even board fit at the moment (having been focused on competing at the cycling worlds in my age group until last week). I've now started building my board paddling fitness up again and hope to be firing again in that department in about 6-8 weeks time.
I hope to transfer that speed to results as this kind of speed gain would see me go from top 10 at our top events over here to top 5 comfortably and that's without the extra years development.
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As almost all the other races in the world align on 14' for racing I think it's only a matter of time before ISA goes with 14'.
Especially for any racer below the top 20 it is too expensive for them to have both 14' for all races and 12'6 for the worlds.
I'm guessing is that this is the last at 12'6.
I'm not so sure. I have the feeling that politics has been involved and trying to suppress this move. There are other complex issues too in that it's realistic that women could make a case that 12'6 is a better format for them. On that basis, I think the rule should be 'everything up to 14ft'.
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12'6 or 14 -> whatever. Either is fine. Anything up to 14 also is fine. Use whatever the rules state or find something else to do. Or make your own race -> and set your own rules. ;D
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https://vimeo.com/232799369
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Hey Yuval,
A friend of mine has paddled both the Bark Vapor and the 2018 Maliko and was telling me that the feel of the two boards was very similar. Which is a good thing as the Vapor has really good handling in chop/dw. He could not say about speed as he is not too interested by GPS :-) but just focus on having a good ride. He is on the heavier side a little bit over 200 pounds.
Not sure if you tried a Vapor ever for comparison.
Luc
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Hey Yuval,
A friend of mine has paddled both the Bark Vapor and the 2018 Maliko and was telling me that the feel of the two boards was very similar. Which is a good thing as the Vapor has really good handling in chop/dw. He could not say about speed as he is not too interested by GPS :-) but just focus on having a good ride. He is on the heavier side a little bit over 200 pounds.
Not sure if you tried a Vapor ever for comparison.
Luc
It doesn't surprise me at all, the two are not far off volume wise and both has comfortable nose rocker. I had a short ride on the vapor a while ago
and while it felt comfortable the ride was too short to make anything of it.
The thing is that at 26" wide, any board I can recall felt comfortable but didn't necessarily translate as well to a 24". Boards like
One EVO, Sunova all-arounder, Bic C-TEC TRACER didn't work well for me.
Boards like the Maliko 2017, SB AS 2017 14x24.5, Blackfish 2017 14x23, Focus 14x23.5 kept good level of comfortability for me.
How would you have the Vapor look like as a 24"?
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I could not say. I am not big on very narrow boards. For some reason anything under 25" I am just not as comfortable even if stability is good. This is weird because I am light and average height at 170 pounds and 6' so should be OK but just do not gel. Sometime I am thinking that a 2017 Starboard Ace 27" could likely cater to almost all my needs.
Did you order a Maliko 24" or 26"?
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I could not say. I am not big on very narrow boards. For some reason anything under 25" I am just not as comfortable even if stability is good. This is weird because I am light and average height at 170 pounds and 6' so should be OK but just do not gel. Sometime I am thinking that a 2017 Starboard Ace 27" could likely cater to almost all my needs.
Did you order a Maliko 24" or 26"?
I don't go for the 24 to be comfortable but to be challenged and in certain conditions I am. I can see that my overall speed in long distance races
in mixed conditions is not much faster than my 12'6x27" so that tells me everything I need to know about narrow boards, I'll probably get one of those
14x23 to raise the stakes in training, but for races I'll go with a 25-26, especially the long distance.
Don't you already have an Ace? Maybe now you're ready for one of these dugout/flat deck hybrids like the NSP Sonic, Mistral EQUINOX Ocean or the 425 pro?
I'm going with this kind of shape for my next board, low volume (probably around 240L) dugout hybrid 16x25 with some steering mechanism and 4 fins of course ;)
This is what I have till now, still work in progress...
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I could not say. I am not big on very narrow boards. For some reason anything under 25" I am just not as comfortable even if stability is good. This is weird because I am light and average height at 170 pounds and 6' so should be OK but just do not gel. Sometime I am thinking that a 2017 Starboard Ace 27" could likely cater to almost all my needs.
Did you order a Maliko 24" or 26"?
I don't go for the 24 to be comfortable but to be challenged and in certain conditions I am. I can see that my overall speed in long distance races
in mixed conditions is not much faster than my 12'6x27" so that tells me everything I need to know about narrow boards, I'll probably get one of those
14x23 to raise the stakes in training, but for races I'll go with a 25-26, especially the long distance.
Don't you already have an Ace? Maybe now you're ready for one of these dugout/flat deck hybrids like the NSP Sonic, Mistral EQUINOX Ocean or the 425 pro?
I'm going with this kind of shape for my next board, low volume (probably around 240L) dugout hybrid 16x25 with some steering mechanism and 4 fins of course ;)
This is what I have till now, still work in progress...
I do and love it except of course at 17.4 I am not always welcome in races :-) and it is a little bit of a problem for shuttle with friends or loading two boards on my car.
It was more of a rhetorical question to myself, like sometime thinking if I lost all my boards today, what would I buy tomorrow. The Maliko 2018 and/or the SB Ace 27" would be in my list as the backbone of a quiver. Unless the 2018 Blackfish to come prove itself as versatile than the Maliko.
Of course I would still look at many other boards anyway. The one board concept is not holding water :-)
I wanted to look at the Equinox very seriously but of course it is not distributed in North America so....the NSP here are still fairly expensive, only available back East and seems fairly heavy in similar width than other boards.
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I thought long and hard about getting the 2018 Maliko 14x26. This might be the board
that might hold water for the one board quiver concept and it would have been my choice
If I had to choose one board.
I'm taking all the elements I liked about this board and work them into my custom 16.
I think I'm done with with the shorter boards, they can make all the faces they want
at the races but I couldn't really care less, it's not like I'm collecting any the prizes anyway.
I'm just in it for the fun and we both know these long boards are fun ;)
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I thought long and hard about getting the 2018 Maliko 14x26. This might be the board
that might hold water for the one board quiver concept and it would have been my choice
If I had to choose one board.
I'm taking all the elements I liked about this board and work them into my custom 16.
I think I'm done with with the shorter boards, they can make all the faces they want
at the races but I couldn't really care less, it's not like I'm collecting any the prizes anyway.
I'm just in it for the fun and we both know these long boards are fun ;)
I think that 16' is kind of the magic number. Bringing together the advantages of both 14' and 17' in one package.
I think that Infinity could definitely make a custom like that i.e. a Blackfish-ist for everyday and a DownTown for DW.
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I thought long and hard about getting the 2018 Maliko 14x26. This might be the board
that might hold water for the one board quiver concept and it would have been my choice
If I had to choose one board.
I'm taking all the elements I liked about this board and work them into my custom 16.
I think I'm done with with the shorter boards, they can make all the faces they want
at the races but I couldn't really care less, it's not like I'm collecting any the prizes anyway.
I'm just in it for the fun and we both know these long boards are fun ;)
I think that 16' is kind of the magic number. Bringing together the advantages of both 14' and 17' in one package.
I think that Infinity could definitely make a custom like that i.e. a Blackfish-ist for everyday and a DownTown for DW.
I ran by Dave at the Carolina Cup, He wasn't up for a 16 yet and definitely no for the steering. It may come to him
at some point if there is enough demand but probably too much on his plate as it is these days. Too bad, it would have
been a sweet board.
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@DavidJohn
Just wanted to say that was a very attractive 9'5" Alana. Love the color scheme on it.
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I ran by Dave at the Carolina Cup, He wasn't up for a 16 yet and definitely no for the steering. It may come to him
at some point if there is enough demand but probably too much on his plate as it is these days. Too bad, it would have
been a sweet board.
Yes he has not been very receptive to 16' and was rather considering - if needed - jumping to 17+ like One, Sunova and SB.
He is a 12.6 man himself so I can see where he is coming from plus nobody in the market is looking at 16' as an option.
Hope that we do not get to mine is longer than yours to define the few UL models available....
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I ran by Dave at the Carolina Cup, He wasn't up for a 16 yet and definitely no for the steering. It may come to him
at some point if there is enough demand but probably too much on his plate as it is these days. Too bad, it would have
been a sweet board.
Yes he has not been very receptive to 16' and was rather considering - if needed - jumping to 17+ like One, Sunova and SB.
He is a 12.6 man himself so I can see where he is coming from plus nobody in the market is looking at 16' as an option.
Hope that we do not get to mine is longer than yours to define the few UL models available....
The weird thing is, he didn't even want to do it as a custom. But knowing him, he's very quick to react to the market, just like
he dropped his reluctance to dugout and colors on the Blackfish an unlimited is surly on his mind. On the other hand, an unlimited
board from Naish seems very unlikely...
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I thought long and hard about getting the 2018 Maliko 14x26. This might be the board
that might hold water for the one board quiver concept and it would have been my choice
If I had to choose one board.
I'm taking all the elements I liked about this board and work them into my custom 16.
I think I'm done with with the shorter boards, they can make all the faces they want
at the races but I couldn't really care less, it's not like I'm collecting any the prizes anyway.
I'm just in it for the fun and we both know these long boards are fun ;)
Interesting evolution from a 2-piece 12'6 race board and a 12'6 DW board.
Can only agree with you.
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I thought long and hard about getting the 2018 Maliko 14x26. This might be the board
that might hold water for the one board quiver concept and it would have been my choice
If I had to choose one board.
I'm taking all the elements I liked about this board and work them into my custom 16.
I think I'm done with with the shorter boards, they can make all the faces they want
at the races but I couldn't really care less, it's not like I'm collecting any the prizes anyway.
I'm just in it for the fun and we both know these long boards are fun ;)
Interesting evolution from a 2-piece 12'6 race board and a 12'6 DW board.
Can only agree with you.
Evolution ongoing yugi. my first 16 suppose to arrive in a few days. That should be interesting. Would love to have your take on it, I know you have at least 2 of my favorite boards.
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my first 16 suppose to arrive in a few days.
Let the drums roll and the bagpipes tattoo.....