Standup Zone Forum
Stand Up Paddle => Technique => Topic started by: Paddle On on June 09, 2017, 01:05:20 PM
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My buddy tried to make me admit i have a board problem, based on the rate i have been buying smaller and smaller boards. in fact most of my buds are telling me i am wasting time and money, but this has not slowed me down.
i tell him i am in full-on go for it mode! this is my season to push my limits.
i am just now getting pretty comfy on the starboard pro 8.5 x 29 112L, next week i am getting Infinity RNB 7'11" x 28" 98L. i realize this is a huge leap and am more than willing to put in the time and effort i.e. plop, plop, fizz, fizz.
i am looking for hints and help from those who have gone before me on a board that is beginning to approach the 1:1 volume:mass.
paddling out: looking at the pros, they do a lot of paddling out prone, foot position when standing?
between sets: i am thinking i may be able to stand if i keep moving, foot position, but fully prepared to sit between sets
taking off : foot position, assuming later take-offs, weight forward/back. a bit concerned with tangling up with proners if i am in the line-up
i am prepared for this to be an end-of-season, when i am in good shape during glassy days.
any hints/discussion appreciated, thanks
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Hopefully you have read through http://progressionproject.com/
Erik has really worked on this.
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thanks for the link, i had not heard of this before. starting to give it a look.
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Unless you have zen like amazing balance, you'll sit more or wear yourself out bracing and paddling in circles. You have to be even more selective as far as picking your spots. You'll be more inside, with zero glide, and most all the others in better position. BUT! once you're in the pocket, oh yeah.... :)
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Paddling in circles, seems i have doing that my whole life.
ZERO glide!
i better bone-up on core engagement and stacking the shoulders.
i like that in the pocket part.................
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I'm 81 kg now and all the boards I ride are 79 to 93 liters depending on length with none over 27.5 wide. I always go out standing because I'm stupidly stubborn. And truth be told I like the fight on the paddle out. Helps me get my feet under me for the upcoming session. Always staggered stance all the time. Once outside I do a figure 8 sculling stroke most often just to help deal with the chop. Remember, with your paddle in the water and keeping pressure against the blade you have increased your effective width and therefore stability. And I find having my feet close together along the stringerline is more stable while waiting. What TD says is dead true...and fun. You will be further in and catching the waves steeper, which I love. I was out the other day and there were 4 or 5 proners near me. At one point one of them jokingly commented that something was amiss.....the sweeper was sitting inside of THEM. We all had a good laugh. For myself, when catching the waves I spread my stance lengthwise, the steeper, the more spread. Helps with balance because it makes you crouch and allows you to really dig on those waves that aren't quite so steep and it's easy to transition back once you take off.
When outside, if you get surprised by a bump, do you just fall or do you throw out a low brace to try and maintain your feet or just slow your fall? My suggestion is to practice always throwing that brace and if you're going down, go down as slowly as possible. You're brace needs to be second nature. Once it's habit you'll find it will help everything, your paddle out, being outside, dealing with the bump, getting your feet back under after you've done a hot move (something I have no experience with) and generally getting respect from the proners cause you're out there STANDING on a small board.....inside of them!
Good luck! Let us know how it goes!
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And I find having my feet close together along the stringerline is more stable while waiting.
For myself, when catching the waves I spread my stance lengthwise, the steeper, the more spread. Helps with balance because it makes you crouch and allows you to really dig on those waves that aren't quite so steep and it's easy to transition back once you take off.
I've been trying to get closer to the stringerline and into more of a surf stance when paddling for waves. Which way are your toes pointing when you do this?
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I have seen you out there, Craig, and you look like you are enjoying yourself with the challenge, which is all that matters.
I went with Prowave, even though it was "challenge" range, because I wanted to learn how to turn. I eventually did.
Now that I can turn, it seems strange, I can turn even the larger "Steve's Hammer" quite well. Since "turning in the pocket short board style" seems to be the main virtue of the shorter boards, I have relaxed a bit on my own "shorter" ambition and have called the 8.7 Flow my carrying limit for my flabaciousness and age *unless* I am just tempted to try a shorter Tomo type for shits and giggles later.
I can tell you have excellent balance skills, so I don't think your "shorter" ambitions are misplaced, at least until you get down to where you find it is just too much work for too little return. It's fun watching you out there on your "challenge" boards. If you have the energy and devotion, go for it.
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And I find having my feet close together along the stringerline is more stable while waiting.
For myself, when catching the waves I spread my stance lengthwise, the steeper, the more spread. Helps with balance because it makes you crouch and allows you to really dig on those waves that aren't quite so steep and it's easy to transition back once you take off.
I've been trying to get closer to the stringerline and into more of a surf stance when paddling for waves. Which way are your toes pointing when you do this?
Badger, when digging for a wave my back foot can be anywhere from slightly angled to almost dead in line with the stringer depending on how hard I'm having to try, and my front foot(left foot, I'm regular) will be angled toes to the right. On smoother days when the Karma gods are being kind I can often just catch waves from the closed/waiting stance. And then there are times when it seems I'm stumbling no matter what I do.
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And I find having my feet close together along the stringerline is more stable while waiting.
For myself, when catching the waves I spread my stance lengthwise, the steeper, the more spread. Helps with balance because it makes you crouch and allows you to really dig on those waves that aren't quite so steep and it's easy to transition back once you take off.
I've been trying to get closer to the stringerline and into more of a surf stance when paddling for waves. Which way are your toes pointing when you do this?
Badger, when digging for a wave my back foot can be anywhere from slightly angled to almost dead in line with the stringer depending on how hard I'm having to try, and my front foot(left foot, I'm regular) will be angled toes to the right. On smoother days when the Karma gods are being kind I can often just catch waves from the closed/waiting stance. And then there are times when it seems I'm stumbling no matter what I do.
Wow, that is a new style to me. I never thought of angling the front foot more than the rear. Just standing here at the computer it feels pretty solid. Can't wait to try it on waves.
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Paddle On, I did the same progression as you. I went through 7 boards starting at 10'3 X 34 and ended with a 7'3 X 28 board. It was fun for awhile, but I began to realize two things:
1. The smaller I went, the less fun I had. Waves are difficult to catch and you miss a bunch. Once on the wave, the small boards are great but they make it tough to catch waves. As TallDude says, you have to sit way inside of everyone else and I ended up getting in the way of other SUP surfers.
2. My problem with turning bigger boards was lack of skill. As my skill has increased, I find that I can turn big boards just fine. I still occasionally ride my 7'4 Jammer, but I have the most fun on my 9'8 X 30 Starboard Element.
So good luck on your quest for the best size board for you. You may come to different conclusions than I did.
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Paddle On, I did the same progression as you. I went through 7 boards starting at 10'3 X 34 and ended with a 7'3 X 28 board. It was fun for awhile, but I began to realize two things:
1. The smaller I went, the less fun I had. Waves are difficult to catch and you miss a bunch. Once on the wave, the small boards are great but they make it tough to catch waves. As TallDude says, you have to sit way inside of everyone else and I ended up getting in the way of other SUP surfers.
2. My problem with turning bigger boards was lack of skill. As my skill has increased, I find that I can turn big boards just fine. I still occasionally ride my 7'4 Jammer, but I have the most fun on my 9'8 X 30 Starboard Element.
So good luck on your quest for the best size board for you. You may come to different conclusions than I did.
Yup, I think that is paralleling my current experience. Once you can turn, you can also start turning larger boards better. I have started to get the "long board flip" down pretty well from the tail on Speeed and Steve's Hammer.
Shorter board means lower wave count, or you wind up trying to get late starts close to the pocket with the added liability of competing with the proners. You wind up working harder for fewer experiences. Also, lower glide.
However, I have to admit, that once on the wave, the 8.7 Flow is an absolute delight with its effortless turning arc and ability to tuck into the face of the wave. That seems worth the effort at least when conditions are OK for the board.
I also think that the bigger you are, it exacerbates the wave entry even more, whereas going down to 1:1 guild factors is probably easier and more workable for smaller riders.
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the learning curve seems pretty steep the last few months. right know i am having a blast challenging my balance skills and riding boards i never thought possible is a blast! i went out on the 8.5 in horrible gusty 15 knots, ultra soupy, current swirling conditions just for practice last week. not fun, but great learning.
one observation is foot position vs the big four: above the water (wind), on the surface (swell/chop/reflections), under the water (currents) and the direction of the waves. if only i could have one foot position that worked for all conditions! we wish. no, i almost always have to move my feet depending on all four of these. sometimes my front foot is 1" closer to the stringer, why? the big four. and it often is just micro adjustments depending on conditions. the biggest help for catching waves is to pivot my front foot, pivot at the heal and put my toes over the stringer as part of my pivot turn into the wave. this keeps me balanced for turning and catching waves. also, the smaller the board the less time needed for pivot turn. if i turn to early i over steer and am off balance. could write quite a bit on foot placement vs the four.
so far the 8.5 has not reduced my wave count at my local spots, except bolinas which is a mush burger wave and i will be taking longer boards, my 12' big easy is perfect.
i love using my paddle to flick arcing turns and pumping to make sections.
sounds like the evolution is to go smaller and smaller, then back up in size for more fun/less work. no doubt for me that when i go out and struggle on a small board, when i go back up in size the larger board feels super stable proving that going really small will make me better with larger SUS. at least a great benefit, i just wish it wasn't so damn expensive
picking up the little one later this week, will report back.
PO
btw - pretty epic swell predicted for fathers day here in norcal for south facing breaks........
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8'5 is not that small yet. I'm rooting for you when you go sub 8ft. I found that all of a sudden, front to back balance was an issue, especially on the 7'3 or 7'4. Then, I had to balance in 4 directions instead of 2. However, the boards surfed just like traditional short surfboards, and riding waves was really fun. It just got to be too much work to get on them.
Please continue to document your small board experience for us. I would like to re-live it it vicariously, because it was exciting and fun.
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Fathers Day swell predict has backed off, it has been down graded to meh and is hitting on Saturday.
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I have started to get the "long board flip" down pretty well from the tail on Speeed and Steve's Hammer.
You can start calling it your Hammer now Carl. The check has cleared.
You've been looking good on it too.
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Mah Hammer!
I was sick as a dog last week with protracted stomach flu. Vomited my guts out Monday, I couldn't be away from the toilet for more than 30 minutes for four days, and I still feel it today nine days later. Gator Ade and ramen soup saved my life.
Hope I can get out tomorrow.
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PO...From another thread, I get where you are at...
I'm not having issues once up, but i figure that the pop-up or pop-up fail will determine my fun factor
I am working on those Luckily my son had just challenged me on a push-up month, so that helped, but found this nugget on the Progression Project which rings true:
"From my best guess, I have about 1.5 seconds on the new Hobie to go from seated to standing with the first stroke in progress. That’s if I do everything right. If I don’t anticipate a small chop, or get weight too far forward, it can be over well before that time. Everything happens faster. By the time I’ve started the pop up my tail is already sinking. Keeping weight on the back foot allows the nose to say up, so you can pull yourself out of the water with a stroke, but weighting the tail also allows the board to sink faster. If you don’t have the blade in the water before the nose is under water the chance of getting up drastically decreases. Luckily I have a process for popping up. Back foot under butt, paddle in right hand, held at grip, both hands on deck, front foot though arms to stringer, pop up in surf stance while reaching with the paddle for the first stroke. The process works and I don’t have to think about it."
E.A.
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PO...From another thread, I get where you are at...
I'm not having issues once up, but i figure that the pop-up or pop-up fail will determine my fun factor
I am working on those Luckily my son had just challenged me on a push-up month, so that helped, but found this nugget on the Progression Project which rings true:
"From my best guess, I have about 1.5 seconds on the new Hobie to go from seated to standing with the first stroke in progress. That’s if I do everything right. If I don’t anticipate a small chop, or get weight too far forward, it can be over well before that time. Everything happens faster. By the time I’ve started the pop up my tail is already sinking. Keeping weight on the back foot allows the nose to say up, so you can pull yourself out of the water with a stroke, but weighting the tail also allows the board to sink faster. If you don’t have the blade in the water before the nose is under water the chance of getting up drastically decreases.
Yes, this is exactly what I was talking about. Good insight.
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My recent experience can relate to this thread. This year I stepped down from a 9'2"/124 liter JL Stun Gun to a 7'10"/115 liter L41 Popdart. I still haven't put enough time on the new board, but I can say these things to be true:
Length seems to matter as much or more as volume when you're going below 8 feet. All your motions/actions have to be smaller, more compact, and better balanced. I recently demo'd an 8'8" Sunova Acid that is only 113 liters, technically less volume than the L41, and I had no difficulty paddling and riding it in overhead surf right off the bat.
Even though the L41 is wide/tomo style, it has enough rocker that it doesn't glide very well and you have to take off very close to proners, which can be tough to get used to in crowds. Also, you have to have greater anticipation with sets because you can't cover as much ground to catch waves when you're out of position. And you have to put yourself in perfect position to catch the wave, much like when you're prone paddling.
Overall, I'm catching less waves. It can be frustrating at times. But I really love the way the board feels on the wave, so I'm going to try to continue and get better.
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This is a really interesting thread so far. Good on you guys for pushing your limits. I don't have anything near a SUP this small but I have tried plenty times to stand on my daughter's SUP. It is just a Bic slug with a deck pad. Can only stand briefly if I start out prone paddling.
1.5 seconds to stand and start paddling seems impossible! Can you prone or knee paddle to generate speed, then pop up to SUP? You would have to snatch the paddle on your way up, but you would get longer to get balanced while you slowed down.
Then again, if you are sitting in the main lineup with the guys laying down, wouldn't it just be more fun to ditch the paddle? I have always thought the fun part was being able to get in waves early sacrificing performance for longer rides? What am I missing?
Joe Blair makes funboards that have SUP dimensions. http://jblairsurf.com/surfboards/big-guy-surfboards . They are wide and 4" thick and have carry handles like SUPs. Volumes over 100 liter on a few.
I think it is a pretty interesting idea to make these truly high-volume boards in quad fins. Giving you the SUP feel underfoot, while not actually being a SUP. I saw a guy riding a small Jimmy Lewis 8' SUP as his surfboard. He had removed most of the pad and turned it into a wax board. I asked him about it and he was like "Yo, I love to surf but don't get out enough to be in surf shape, with this big wide sucker I just have to point myself in the right direction and stand up." He was ripping once he got up which got me thinking about something like that.
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Then again, if you are sitting in the main lineup with the guys laying down, wouldn't it just be more fun to ditch the paddle?
I tried prone surfing my 8.4 last week. It wasn't fun at all. I was out of breath after just a few waves. It takes way too much effort and energy to go from a laying down position to standing up.
I thought, no wonder prone surfers only surf for an hour or two. It's an exhausting workout, and compared to stand up, it's not even a good workout.
I routinely do three, four, even five hour sessions standing up. I watch prone surfers come and go all morning long. I get more hours of surfing in, I catch a ton more waves than they do, and I'm 60 years old!
I try to tell people the advantages of stand up and they just don't get it. There is such a stigma against trying something new and breaking tradition that many are doomed to live in the past. I'm not saying everyone should give up prone surfing. They just need to add a stand up board to their quiver.
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Before this thread i really hadn't read the Progression Project
I don't like his writing style, But in terms of "What am I Missing?" It's in that blog.....
His thing " A race to the bottom" is essentially...."far can you take it?"
The SUP skill set seems to me to be far more than just getting in early and getting long rides....I like being able to paddle out thru whitewater...i like (thinking) that i can balance too small a board .
Smaller stuff is not easier than prone........I'm not really into the distance thing kinda get bored...so it's really just a different challenge subset of SUS...believe me, i like to pull out the longboard ......
The windsurfers understand....there is a progression of skills......uphaul.....gybe....waterstart .....jump..... waveride .....backloop....frontloop etc
We have that... noseride...helicopters .airs ..paddleswitches....and maybe stability drops. etc .....the other day, i was paddling and moving foward with the front half of the board consistently underwater....i don't know why i need that, but it may come in handy someday,,,,
So too each his own, but this is still a new sport and i don't think we even know where it will go....and yeah the smaller boards are twitchy fun and kooklike at the same time...and yes..maybe once i hit bottom, i will rachet up a notch or two...but i want to know how low can you go.
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Before this thread i really hadn't read the Progression Project
His thing " A race to the bottom" is essentially...."far can you take it?"
The SUP skill set seems to me to be far more than just getting in early and getting long rides....I like being able to paddle out thru whitewater...i like (thinking) that i can balance too small a board .
Smaller stuff is not easier than prone........I'm not really into the distance thing kinda get bored...so it's really just a different challenge subset of SUS.
We have that... noseride...helicopters .airs ..paddleswitches....and maybe stability drops. etc .....the other day, i was paddling and moving foward with the front half of the board consistently underwater....i don't know why i need that, but it may come in handy someday,,,,
So too each his own, but this is still a new sport and i don't think we even know where it will go....and yeah the smaller boards are twitchy fun and kooklike at the same time
Amen brother. Last time I checked all this is a subjective endeavor. And we each like to challenge ourselves in different ways. Good on everyone for whatever the he'll you're doing. At least you're out there doing it. More than MANY can say.
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Being close to the stringer is a big deal on any board. When I find myself bouncing around too much and struggling with balance I always find my feet are toward the edges. It seems to my brain that it would be easier, but it's not.
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I will counter that I've mostly converted back to prone surfing because I enjoy surfing a low volume board when waves get decent size.
As to fitness, I do both on long days but I'm personally way stronger in my upper body due to prone paddling. I'm 50 and doing it while I can but I'm going to try to keep in shape for this as it's changed my body for the better.
I think a combination of the two styles, for me, will be the way forward until my body won't let me. Maybe I'll be like Lopez and just keep it going or maybe my neck will give me trouble like some here and I'll switch to SUS full time again.
I went down to a 7'5" board and it's fun but I'm heading back up a bit myself. I can't stand a big production board as they are too corky for me now but a low volume but longer length, (8'6" or so) as has been noted here, seems right for me.
The 23" wide SUP is strange to me personally unless you just don't like SUP but can't surf prone anymore for health reasons. As has been said, if you're popping up, pop up. Why bother with a paddle?
I started paddling and never surfed before. Once I committed to learning to surf prone, it's took two years to build fitness but now I can surf competently as an intermediate and am starting to get a few lessons on more advanced tuning.
An 8' wavestorm funboard is far more maneuverable than any SUP that will ever be made. It's just harder to paddle lying down. I decided that the trade of standing on a small board wasn't worth it. For me, SUP means a board I can comfortably stand on and paddle at higher speeds throughout the lineup, catching waves earlier. I am willing to sacrifice performance on the wave for the overall experience. When I want to feel a tiny board under my feet, I go grab my prone board and swap.
Both... for as long as I can. And yeah, it's hard to paddle a surfboard but it's been a great challenge and made me get far stronger up top than I've ever been. SUS takes care of the lower half.
If you got into this from flat paddling and never surfed and are chasing the progression down, buy a cheap 8' funboard and spend a season busting it out on your belly. It'll change your life. And the older surfers here taught me that.
To me, it's the same as a guy who won't try standup when the waves are tiny or flat. Don't be stubborn about any of it. But I also think this is another reason why younger people aren't more into the sport. They don't have to be physically.
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Great thread.
I'm moving my way down as well, but not to a ratio of 1.0. I'm looking to find a sweet spot on performance and fun and I think that ratio will be between 1.2-1.4 for me (depending on shape and conditions).
I'm 148 lbs (67 kg). I used to have an 8'6 x 30, 118 L RNB and then got a 7'6 x 28, 95 L RNB. In normal conditions (exception being super choppy winter waters), my wave count didn't go down at all moving to the smaller version, but the performance boost really increased how much fun I had on a wave (big time) and the session overall. One session really stood out where I was struggling a bit on my big board so I switched to my smaller one and started catching more waves (the waves stood up nicely so they were easy to catch with later drops). I ended up selling the big one, and now use my 7'6 RNB as my all-arounder (ratio of 1.4).
Later on, I picked up an 87 L board (7'5 x 26, 87 L, ratio 1.3--different shape though). I started to notice things get a little more challenging, but I actually think the width drop has more to do with it. For my weight, 87 L offers pretty good float (rails under water, but my feet still above). This board is soooo fun on the wave and in clean conditions, it catches waves pretty well (I can stand in the lineup without moving/bracing). But, I've started to feel "the struggle" when in chop or with a winter suit on. I do find when that struggle starts, the fun factor for the session goes down. But overall, outside of winter, and when conditions are good, this board maintains the fun in the lineup and wave-catching and is super fun on the wave.
I still think I have some room to go down still within my sweet spot in clean conditions, but I don't think I can push it too much more. I think close to a ratio of 1.0 would be tough if I want to keep that fun factor high. ...but I'm also a guy that doesn't understand my cycling buddies when they describe their stoke for road biking by saying they like the suffering. Sounds like some of you nanoSUPers enjoy the challenge for the challenge itself too.
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Should also add, don't mean to sound cranky lol. Ride what you like but just wanted to remind some of us who never prone surfed that there's a whole world to explore and the boards are by definition, "low volume" ;)
Africa, interesting about the shorter but well shaped board being better at catching. That's a big deal I think. You can't just shrink any board and get a winner. It takes skill to shape something that works. That's a great point to make.
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Paddle On, I did the same progression as you. I went through 7 boards starting at 10'3 X 34 and ended with a 7'3 X 28 board. It was fun for awhile, but I began to realize two things:
1. The smaller I went, the less fun I had. Waves are difficult to catch and you miss a bunch. Once on the wave, the small boards are great but they make it tough to catch waves. As TallDude says, you have to sit way inside of everyone else and I ended up getting in the way of other SUP surfers.
2. My problem with turning bigger boards was lack of skill. As my skill has increased, I find that I can turn big boards just fine. I still occasionally ride my 7'4 Jammer, but I have the most fun on my 9'8 X 30 Starboard Element.
So good luck on your quest for the best size board for you. You may come to different conclusions than I did.
So, do you get all the way back on the board to turn, with your front foot weighted more heavily and rear foot to the appropriate side? Ref. Progression Project critique.
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you guys've got me to thinking of riding prone again
i have a new funboard--sunova--"wavecatcher"--bot it for my proner brother, but i have access---thing is easily the prettiest board ive ever seen--7.0 i believe
ima take it out tomorrow!
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Back in 2008 we started taking our 11' and 12' SUP boards to Santa Cruz with our prone boards. Wanted to try to catch waves with the stand ups. That first day, we had a ball at cowells with small rollers that were barely breaking. I felt bad because the local longboarders saw us catching waves and getting long rides. Several paddled out but soon realized they couldn't catch these rollers. Tide was still too high for them. Over the next couple of years, both my wife and I ended up transitioning to riding SUP full time and not even bringing our prone boards. I went to a 9'6" Blair, then an 8'10" Blair, then 8'10" Kings, even had a couple different 100+/- ltr boards. Now I generally ride most of the time my 8' Kazuma Fugu, at 115 ltrs. 185 lbs and it surfs like a short board, but is a nice compromise, over going sub 8' and closer to 100ltrs. Which I have done, but it was work.
4 years ago, I had Joe Blair build me one of his big boy prone PU shortboards, a 7'4", 24" wide. I had a lot of fun on it and over the past few years I have bought a 6'6" x 20.5" and then a 6'2" x 20". As fun as a short SUP is, there is nothing that compares with proning into a solid 10' face and dropping in. The motivation to prone surf again really was pressed by my 3 boys, who are all excellent shortboarders. So glad I did it. I still ride the 8' sup 80% of the time and even take out my 8'10" Kings, when conditions are better for it. My wife is on an 8'5" Starboard Pocket Rocket and probably going to pick up a 7'4" Hypernut, which she demoed in Maui and loved it. But that other 20%, I am prone surfing. It has made me much better on the stand up. And yes it is difficult and my wave count is much lower. But I cannot measure the benefit to my stand up surfing. Huge difference!
So for those of you who started surfing on an SUP and then got into prone surfing, Big props from me! That's not an easy transition.
My wife and I both now would sacrifice wave count for ride quality. That wasn't the case when we started sup'n full time. The shorter boards are just more fun to ride. You need to find that lower volume/shape that allows you to really turn, but also provide enough glide and balance. Pisses me off when I am out with a bunch of sup's on 10'+ long boards hanging outside, and when they do catch a wave they just go straight, or maybe a little roller coaster. What a waste of a wave. We like to actually surf the wave, you know top to bottom and staying in the pocket. Yes I do fall a bit. But I have fun, and can do stuff with my short sup that I could only have done on my prone shortboard many years ago. All because I try it on the sup, and eventually get it down. Well most of the time anyway.
I am only 56, which I gather is young for this forum, and I am sure as I get older my board size will grow and I likely will transition back to full time sup, and probably increase board length or volume. But until that happens I want to keep progressing and go as low/short as I can. So for all you like minded souls go for it.
I just picked up a foil, a week before I broke my ankle 2 months ago. It's going to take a few more months to recover, but I am looking forward to that learning curve in the spring. Hope you all have a great winter surf season, no matter what or how you ride.
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An 8' wavestorm funboard is far more maneuverable than any SUP that will ever be made.
I disagree. I have stand up surfed a 8' Wavestorm surfboard, it is a slow cumbersome barge compared to my regular SUP boards.
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I think we'd all agree that low volume is a sliding scale that the size of the rider governs. At 257# (this morning), I tend to slide that scale up a ways, coming in at a water equivalent of roughly 117 liters. I've SUP surfed down to 140 Liters but not all that comfortably. Performance on the smallest board I can practically stand on improved for me, say 20%. Both my long hammer and Stoke are roughly 165 liters and that feels just right, so my guild factor of 1.4 is a very happy medium.
I came into sup from a longboarding background riding a 10' 25+ pound Weber stylist, or 9-6 Johnny Rice performance longboard. My Stoke at 9-6 is as short as my shortest longboard and I swear that with the paddle there to act as a balance lever, I'm surfing as well as I ever have (not that I surf with any notable style). If I weighed less, I'd ride a smaller board. Should I ever lose weight, my wife's board is going to get absconded and she'll be getting a newer custom. I've got that as a motivator. Her board rips it up. :D