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Stand Up Paddle => Gear Talk => Topic started by: JimK on May 15, 2017, 07:03:05 AM

Title: It was only a matter of time till someone did it
Post by: JimK on May 15, 2017, 07:03:05 AM
I was putting boards together in my shop this past Saturday (pouring rain & howling winds). I saw that Fanatic has a fin box that you can use EITHER Future Fins or FCS..I was AMAZED! OK maybe I'm a little slow but it amazed me
just thought I'd pass it on...Pretty cool I thought

JimK
Extreme Windsurfing
Title: Re: It was only a matter of time till someone did it
Post by: Area 10 on May 15, 2017, 07:16:05 AM
Brilliant! Well done Fanatic (assuming it is a good quality box).
Title: Re: It was only a matter of time till someone did it
Post by: JimK on May 16, 2017, 05:41:44 AM
Seems like a good quality box and both Future & FCS fins fit in snugly. Not sure what models they are on but the 2017 AllWave Pure Lights seem to have these boxes. My guess the Stubby's and ProWaves do too

Time will tell

jimK
Extreme Windsurfing
Title: Re: It was only a matter of time till someone did it
Post by: PonoBill on May 16, 2017, 07:36:05 AM
I've always thought the Proboxes should do that--accommodate any FCS or Futures fin. seems like an obvious and simple design change.
Title: Re: It was only a matter of time till someone did it
Post by: supuk on May 16, 2017, 07:46:44 AM
interesting can we see some pictures?
Title: Re: It was only a matter of time till someone did it
Post by: 2Rivers on May 16, 2017, 01:07:18 PM
I saw that Fanatic has a fin box that you can use EITHER Future Fins or FCS
I'm not 100% positive, but I believe that's the same fin box that North uses on their kite surfboards. It has 2 side screws instead of one up front like Futures giving the effect that it's a hybrid box, but in fact it's only Futures compatible...
"All boards now come with our own Futures Fins compatible fin boxes. Two side set screws and no rear tab allow for a wider tolerance of fin fitting and ensure a perfect and tight fit every time whether you’re using our high quality composite fins or any stock after market Futures brand fin."

Surfinz makes the F3 fin box that's compatible with both fin types...
http://www.seabase.eu/docs/Surfboards_F3/
^ Is this the fin box installed? If so, COOL!!!  8)

Note that the Futures' side (front) fins are molded with the side cant within the fin tab whereas FCS's side fins are molded with the side cant within the fin box (and partially at the fin base where it makes contact with the deck). The Surfinz F3 adaptor works with the canted slots within the box to allow for the FCS tabs to cant when assembled.
Title: Re: It was only a matter of time till someone did it
Post by: burchas on May 16, 2017, 05:48:05 PM
I've always thought the Proboxes should do that--accommodate any FCS or Futures fin. seems like an obvious and simple design change.

Probox is compatible with FCS since its inception. When I asked Larry a while ago what about
futures?

He told me he could have easily made it work but didn't want to do it back then for 2 reason:
one being technical as he didn't like the big base of the futures, potential for failure when
installed by someone who's less than proficient.

Second was market share since at the time futures had only 25% and he didn't think it was
worth the headache.

I'm wondering what's their market share today?
Title: Re: It was only a matter of time till someone did it
Post by: supuk on May 16, 2017, 09:45:14 PM
Ok if these are the surfinz boxes they have been around for many years (about 9) way before I started building boards. They didn't catch on. Starboard and a few other companies have used them in the past I believe if I remember right.
Title: Re: It was only a matter of time till someone did it
Post by: Dwight (DW) on May 17, 2017, 04:04:57 AM
How do they solve the cant angle problem? 

Futures fins are canted. FCS is straight.
Title: Re: It was only a matter of time till someone did it
Post by: supuk on May 17, 2017, 04:26:13 AM
The surfinz used a insert with different angles.

Personally the only reason for using fcs would be for the fcsii but aprantly it's fairly common to loose a fin if you hit a rock or something and I can't be feeling with that there fate to pricy plus there's not a huge range to choose from. Still room for inprovement for the hole snap in design.
Title: Re: It was only a matter of time till someone did it
Post by: Larry Allison on May 17, 2017, 05:39:34 AM
The surfinz used a insert with different angles.

Personally the only reason for using fcs would be for the fcsii but aprantly it's fairly common to loose a fin if you hit a rock or something and I can't be feeling with that there fate to pricy plus there's not a huge range to choose from. Still room for inprovement for the hole snap in design.

Not a insert I have a patent on that it's a more like a wedge I believe, this box has been around since 2004. Has issues when using a FCS because of the long slot for the Future Base. Lateral load of a FCS causes issues. Basically a FUture performing box primarily. I thought about this in the surf world but ruled it out because the footprint of having a Future Box was to big which still cracks me up in todays world.
Title: Re: It was only a matter of time till someone did it
Post by: supuk on May 17, 2017, 06:04:36 AM
Here is the insert/wedge. I'm guessing you have to use the side screws for futures however not sure how that would work if your fins don't have a solid base. Still interested to see a pic of the fanatic with them.
Title: Re: It was only a matter of time till someone did it
Post by: Larry Allison on May 17, 2017, 06:08:02 AM
Ok if these are the surfinz boxes they have been around for many years (about 9) way before I started building boards. They didn't catch on. Starboard and a few other companies have used them in the past I believe if I remember right.

I believe Boardworks had them in for one season as I show from another fourm from back then.

9 years ago (REPLY TO #7) #8

Last seen: 1 week 16 hours ago
Joined: 08/14/2006
Re: [peteuk] fin box for futures and fcs
Hi peteuk,

Try contacting Seabase for who makes those boxes. They carry those Chinese "Boardworks" boards and the fin boxes you're looking for might have been designed specifically for those pop outs.

Not sure but worth a try...

~Brian
Title: Re: It was only a matter of time till someone did it
Post by: Larry Allison on May 17, 2017, 06:09:51 AM
Here is the insert/wedge. I'm guessing you have to use the side screws for futures however not sure how that would work if your fins don't have a solid base. Still interested to see a pic of the fanatic with them.

Yeap same box, LOL
Title: Re: It was only a matter of time till someone did it
Post by: Larry Allison on May 17, 2017, 06:13:37 AM

Another comment from same tread:

9 years ago (REPLY TO #6) #7
solosurfer's picture
solosurfer (not verified)
fin box for futures and fcs
Quote:

From what I hear it was originally designed to go into chinese boards slated to flood our shores. The idea was a universal box that took Futures and FCS hence the name "F" box. You can imagine the names this industry has come up with for it starting with the letter "F" lol. The factory there threw in the towel (on the surfboards) so now they are trying to sell it here. Seems kind of cheesy IMO as it seems very narrow (not much face for glass to adhere to or to hold up larger fins) and it's long and dead flat. Not sure how that will fit into the curvature of a surfboard without getting the glass stripped off (not many boards are dead flat through the fin area) and it uses that same old screw famous for stripping. Good luck wit dat.


Exactly..imagine being able to ship lots of boards without fins. Retailer's dream. In theory only.

Title: Re: It was only a matter of time till someone did it
Post by: Larry Allison on May 17, 2017, 06:28:00 AM
Here is the insert/wedge. I'm guessing you have to use the side screws for futures however not sure how that would work if your fins don't have a solid base. Still interested to see a pic of the fanatic with them.

Probox is a Insert, Seabase is a Wedge. Seabase was the distributor for Bill Stewart who came up with the Future Box and later became Future's distributor. If you think about it Future is a US box and FCS is a Global box. Copies of FCS are more popular in South Africa , Brazil and Oz, Japan and Hawaii then Futures which are the strong surf countries. In the China world it's a manufactures nightmare which is Why I only went FCS adaptability. 
Title: Re: It was only a matter of time till someone did it
Post by: Larry Allison on May 17, 2017, 02:12:41 PM
This box was designed by John Field I believe from the telecommunications Industry. This is the reason for the name "F" box.

Fin attachment system and method
Patent number: 7497752
Abstract: A fin box for releasable attachment of a fin having at least one fin-tab, the fin box adapted for insertion into and retention within a water board, the fin box including: a generally elongate body provided with a substantially rectangular recess open at a first surface of the body, the recess extending to a base proximal to a second surface opposite the first surface, and the recess having a forward end and a rearward end; wherein the structure is provided with at least one angled threaded hole extending from the first surface of the body to emerge at a point within the recess between the first surface and the base of the recess.
Type: Grant
Filed: March 28, 2007
Date of Patent: March 3, 2009
Inventor: John Field
Title: Re: It was only a matter of time till someone did it
Post by: 2Rivers on May 17, 2017, 02:55:25 PM
Still interested to see a pic of the fanatic with them.
You can see it here. Scroll down a bit and then click on the closeup pic of the fins...
http://www.fanatic.com/product/allwave/#productDetailsTabs2
It's definitely not the F3 system. I'm now 99% sure that it's the same fin box North is using on their kite surfboards. Note that North and Fanatic are under the same company Boards&More. Cabrinha's kite surfboards are also now spec'ed with this fin box, so it seems it's not exclusive to Fanatic or North. I believe they both use the same factory for their board production, so it's more likely a factory exclusive fin box. Until a manufacture can confirm, this is all conjecture on my part.
Title: Re: It was only a matter of time till someone did it
Post by: 2Rivers on May 18, 2017, 12:06:40 PM
Here's the answer for those with Futures fin boxes and want more fin options or a "crutch" when traveling abroad and only FCS can be found or borrowed...
https://www.wasabisurf.com
Title: Re: It was only a matter of time till someone did it
Post by: exiled on May 18, 2017, 01:47:39 PM
Here's the answer for those with Futures fin boxes and want more fin options or a "crutch" when traveling abroad and only FCS can be found or borrowed...
https://www.wasabisurf.com

nice idea, but not for the price of a new set of fins.
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