Standup Zone Forum
The Foil Zone => Foil SUP => Topic started by: clay on April 25, 2017, 11:13:34 AM
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Hey,
So I tried foiling behind a boat and on one of my runs managed to get up on the foil and fly for about 12 seconds. I actually got the feel of flying the foil instead the foil taking me for a ride, I felt in control.
Even with a boat the amount of time actually up and flying is relatively short.
I am wondering what kind of land based balance trainer might help get the feel of balancing on a foil?
Someone told me a Onewheel's balance point feels very similar, can anyone who has a lot foil experience confirm this?
I have heard foiling compared to riding a unicycle, is a stand up unicycle a good comparison?
Also like doing a manual on a skateboard? My experience is foiling feels different in that the board doesn't exactly shoot out from under me like a skateboard can.
How have kitesurfers learned to foil? With the kite? A boat? Something else?
The attached photo of balance trainers is one I saw in the comments of Laird's facebook page. I have no idea if they work or if they are for sale.
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Brett Lickle created an extreme balance trainer for sale some years ago. I think if you could handle that you could handle anything. Brett might still have a few in his garage. http://surfball.net/index.htm
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It’s all about trim, Clay. And delayed reaction.
Haven’t tried one-wheel but can imagine it’s stuff in the same groove. Have done a bit of unicycling. Yes, it’s also trim but unicycle is ultra reactive. Foiling has a delayed dampened effect.
Just get out and do it. Cop a feel for it and afterwards visualise. Then repeat. Slow reactions down and get a feel for the delayed dampened effect. It needs to be anticipated and also put into effect slowly. So only time on water will get you into the groove.
Other gadgets: sure have fun with them but don’t expect them to have anything close to the same vibe.
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Clay, I think the best thing is to keep practicing behind a boat as nothing else is quite like foiling. It's all about having the feet in exactly the right place before lifting off and keeping pressure on the front foot once you lift up, you want to keep it low and just above the surface. If you were able to fly for 15 seconds last time, I'm pretty sure you will be able to fly longer on your next attempt, once you "get it" it's really not that hard. I think it really helps to have someone who is experienced at foiling driving the boat and giving you pointers. I just got back from a boat trip and everyone I coached and towed behind the jet ski was able to get the foil flying on the first attempt, it took me much longer to figure it out without instructions.
Ask the driver to go about 10-12 mph for the Maliko Foil and get out to the side and in front of the boat wake in clean water before lifting off. A calm/ glassy day will also make it easier.
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Thanks for the comments.
Robert what you are saying resonates with my attempts so far. Especially the glassy water, the smoother water is where I had my longest ride yet.
Good foiling conditions are bit hard to come by around here. I am going to try hacking together a few balance beams/boards mostly to practice the "roll" balance as that is what I am struggling with...
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Hi Clay; I always enjoy your posts and great videos. Keep em coming.
In watching you and your friends first foiling attempts behind the boat, I have an observation to share. This should be taken with a huge grain of salt since I am a non-foiler, and therefore have zero credibility. However, this is something that I have heard experienced people talk about, though I cannot remember whether it was Robert S or Dave Kalama.
It seems that one of the big keys is having both feet exactly on the center line. Once you are up on the foil, shifting weight from foot to foot controls the pitch of the foil, but like in surfing it can also unintentionally control the rail to rail action, or roll in foil terms, if the feet are even slightly off center. If your feet are off center, you cannot control one of these variables without causing unintended consequences with the other. If you study your video carefully, you will see that many of the falls happened when the rider attempted to correct pitch or roll, and the unintended affect on the other caused the board to react in an unexpected way. During the best rides on the video, you can see that the persons feet are dead on the mid-line, which allows weight shift to control pitch, while ankle action controls roll. In some of the other attempts, the feet are off just by inches, but you can see the board rolling in response to fore and aft weight adjustments as well as unintended pitch changes caused by attempts to control roll.
Not wanting to pretend to be knowledgable about foiling, but I have taught snow and water sports all my life that often have these multi-dimensional reactions, so what these guys said made sense to me and seemed worth passing on.
Keep those videos coming!
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I have one of these you can borrow
http://www.si-boards.com/
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i have found slack lining is a great balance exercise/ core workout. just grab a 2500kg load binder or a bit of 12mm dyneema and a couple of solid trees and youre away
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Clay, I wish I could comment on the similarities between the Onewheel and foiling but unfortunately I've never foiled.
I can tell you that the Onewheel is a blast to ride and is a bonafide last mile transportation piece. And while it truly does feel a lot like snowboarding, what might be more interesting to a foiler, is the concept of push-back. Push-back is when the Onewheel automatically tilts, nose-up to tell the rider that they are getting near max speed. Deliberately fighting push back requires some practice and additional balance skills that would be helpful for any board sport.
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It seems that one of the big keys is having both feet exactly on the center line. Once you are up on the foil, shifting weight from foot to foot controls the pitch of the foil, but like in surfing it can also unintentionally control the rail to rail action, or roll in foil terms, if the feet are even slightly off center. If your feet are off center, you cannot control one of these variables without causing unintended consequences with the other. If you study your video carefully, you will see that many of the falls happened when the rider attempted to correct pitch or roll, and the unintended affect on the other caused the board to react in an unexpected way. During the best rides on the video, you can see that the persons feet are dead on the mid-line, which allows weight shift to control pitch, while ankle action controls roll. In some of the other attempts, the feet are off just by inches, but you can see the board rolling in response to fore and aft weight adjustments as well as unintended pitch changes caused by attempts to control roll.
Hi!
Yes to this. And to Roberts comment also. I noticed that on the longest ride I had, my feet felt in the right place, but then after I feel off I forgot what that placement was. So many attempts back to back, it got confusing and they all ran together. I was wondering was the center the middle of my foot, or under my ankle bone, or midway between my heel and ball of my foot??? I hope when I string together a few successful flights it will become muscle memory.
Thanks for all the comments.
Alon I want to borrow your balance trainer!
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Hi,
So I pieced this together, tried a half dozen or so configurations before I found something that is workable and relatively safe:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_z0cSC6XMaU
Awaiting the arrival of some parts for version 2.0 :)
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That actually looks like a really good practice tool Clay!
I benefited from using a paddle mounted camera to see my foot positioning and placed a pad on the board so my back foot is centered over the back screw of the foil. I find the back foot position critical. The front foot can be more forward on faster/ steeper waves and a bit further back at slower speeds but if you back foot is not in the right place, forget it.
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Maybe try a roller blade wheel in the middle instead of the standard trucks. Don't hurt yourself....
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Funny, I was trying to explain to a buddy the SUP foil concept. I told him it was like doing a wheelie on a skateboard and maintaining it for long distances and changes of direction. :)
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Thanks!
While waiting for parts I tired something a bit different, a bit more sketchy and a lot more foil like, make some video when I get a chance...
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Very cool, Clay. Maybe try it with a land paddle--just a stick with a crutch tip works fine. I've got a big Kahuna board that I'm going to try something similar with. I have to suit up like a medieval knight to ride the thing. My geezer balance and sketchy knee don't make for elegant recoveries. But I need to push it to ever get on foils.
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Thanks Bill. Good idea. I agree completely - pads and protective gear are the wise way to learn something like foiling.
Here is my second attempt at building a foil balance trainer:
https://youtu.be/Pjwzxh0qvLA
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Awesome.... and what must the neighborhood skaters think ;D