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Stand Up Paddle => SUP General => Topic started by: Zooport on April 20, 2017, 11:59:01 AM

Title: Bogus data from the Trace app
Post by: Zooport on April 20, 2017, 11:59:01 AM
Has anyone noticed how ridiculous the data from the Surfline "scout" feature is?  It appears to be generated by contributors using the trace device that you put on your surfboard.  Sounds like a great idea, but I have a hard time believing anyone catches 31.3 waves per hour, especially a prone surfer.  Maybe an on-fire SUP surfer, but even that is pushing the limits of believability. 
Title: Re: Bogus data from the Trace app
Post by: Zooport on April 20, 2017, 12:01:36 PM
..............................
Title: Re: Bogus data from the Trace app
Post by: Zooport on April 20, 2017, 12:02:46 PM
Sorry.....
Title: Re: Bogus data from the Trace app
Post by: PonoBill on April 20, 2017, 12:13:28 PM
Yeah, that's probably a bit out there, though at the right break, with no crowd, maybe you could get close. But 100 yard rides mean 100 yards paddling back at 2mph = 3500 yards per hour. 31 paddleouts of 100 yards = 3100 yards just to paddle back out which takes the entire hour leaving no time to wait for a wave or even ride it. With a SUP, at just the right location, yeah, possible but unlikely. Prone--nah.
Title: Re: Bogus data from the Trace app
Post by: SupPadre on April 20, 2017, 12:50:38 PM
Trace posts the info from your last session on Surfline. If Saul started his session just before he caught the wave and ended the session just after finishing the wave, trace might have calculated the waves per hour using only one wave in a session that lasted just under two minutes.

I enjoy looking at the stats after a session and the info provided seems pretty accurate to me.
Title: Re: Bogus data from the Trace app
Post by: OUTSIDEWAVE on April 20, 2017, 05:58:13 PM
maybe if they are riding shore break and getting really really short waves  with a quick paddle out and turn and go
Title: Re: Bogus data from the Trace app
Post by: Beasho on April 20, 2017, 06:26:06 PM
TRACE Works.  And it is correct.  It is our feeble minds that can't keep track of the data.

Where TRACE over-reports is on wave-catch-attempts. 

To set a BASELINE, here is the data that I have recorded on Wave Catching ability of a SUP and WAVE count.  If anyone has better data please share.

But. . . . . . NO ONE ON PLANET EARTH HAS BETTER DATA THAN THIS.

I have counted every wave I have caught since October 18th, 2012 and I am a data guy.  I record min to max wave size, number caught, the spot, the board, the wind, the chop, the number of surfers in the water, how many waves I had totally solo, the board, the FUN and calculate Wave Rate, Vertical Drop and Drop/Hr.  Then I add it all up and break it down by Year, Quarter, Month, Spot . . . .

Moral of the story:  We catch 10 - 13 waves per hour.  This is dependent on Wave size.  The formula is exactly:

19.13 - 0.97 Wave Size (ft) = Waves per Hour (excluding Mavericks)
Title: Re: Bogus data from the Trace app
Post by: Beasho on April 20, 2017, 06:39:07 PM
Since I am mentally counting every wave I can then fact-check TRACE.  At the end of a session I will calibrate my memory vs. TRACE.

Typically I am within a wave or 2 +/-.  Where TRACE goes crazy is counting missed waves.  I know that when it is a 10 foot day and I see a wave 'Caught' by TRACE that was only 30 yards long and hit 14 mph - This was a missed wave. 

On a good surf day, typically 8 to 12 feet, TRACE will over-report wave count by as much as 50%.  Here was a report that showed the wave size being 9 to 10 feet from the Surfline forecast and my wave count running 21 waves per hour.  The reality was 15.7 waves per hour.  This was still VERY high for what I recorded as a 9 foot day, but it was significantly below the TRACE report which included all the waves I paddled for and missed.
Title: Re: Bogus data from the Trace app
Post by: Zooport on April 20, 2017, 07:07:22 PM

Typically I am within a wave or 2 +/-.  Where TRACE goes crazy is counting missed waves.  I know that when it is a 10 foot day and I see a wave 'Caught' by TRACE that was only 30 yards long and hit 14 mph - This was a missed wave. 


Yes, that's what's bogus...the wave count.  It's reasonable to suspect that 32 waves an hour is not good data.   Even you are not that much of a wave catching stud.  I'm certainly not.

I am NOT saying that the Trace is a piece of junk; I'm saying that the wave count, and maybe the paddling distance is not correct.
Title: Re: Bogus data from the Trace app
Post by: anonsurfer on April 21, 2017, 09:21:33 AM
Has anyone noticed how ridiculous the data from the Surfline "scout" feature is?  It appears to be generated by contributors using the trace device that you put on your surfboard.  Sounds like a great idea, but I have a hard time believing anyone catches 31.3 waves per hour, especially a prone surfer.  Maybe an on-fire SUP surfer, but even that is pushing the limits of believability.

Keep in mind the scout wave count data is normalized to 1 hour.  So if I go out and catch 5 waves in 10 minutes then end my session it will show as 30 waves per hour.    It's pretty easy to catch 5 waves in 10 mins under the right conditions.

My highest wave per hour count occurs when it is small (quick paddle out), the rides are short (not far to paddle back out), consistent (no waiting for waves) and no one out (again, no waiting).  Catch a wave, ride it, pull out, paddle back out, repeat.  Under the right conditions that takes less than 1 minute.   

Title: Re: Bogus data from the Trace app
Post by: Weasels wake on April 21, 2017, 10:37:14 AM
The only way that anyone could get close to 32 waves/hr. IMO, is to be a kiter hanging out in the impact zone.  I witness this almost every time I go windsurfing, sometimes very much to my frustration, depending on who's doing the kiting. 
Title: Re: Bogus data from the Trace app
Post by: Beasho on April 22, 2017, 01:40:31 PM
Look who was crushing it today at Mavericks:
Title: Re: Bogus data from the Trace app
Post by: PonoBill on April 22, 2017, 02:27:35 PM
Crushing it a fo' ta fi'??
Title: Re: Bogus data from the Trace app
Post by: Beasho on April 22, 2017, 03:23:02 PM
Crushing it a fo' ta fi'??
  - Can't catch a break - Cap'N Grumpy today   ???
Title: Re: Bogus data from the Trace app
Post by: PonoBill on April 22, 2017, 03:42:56 PM
I'd be a lot nicer if I could find my tubing notcher.
Title: Re: Bogus data from the Trace app
Post by: Beasho on April 23, 2017, 12:30:45 PM
More Fake News and 'Mo Butta' than yesterday.  Laird Kai Kalama - CRUSHING IT again at Mavericks  8)

Let's check the Math.  19.1 - (11.5 ft * .97) => An Estimated 7.845 Waves Per Hour.

TRACE typically bumps the Results by 50%.  1.5X 7.845 --> 11.9 Waves Per Hour.  And TRACE reported 13.5 waves per hour.

Checking the data TRACE reported 20 waves Caught.  I see 14 True waves and 6 failed attempts (this from rides << 50 yards and speeds below 18 mph).  The ratio once again, e.g. 50% markup from TRUE waves, proves to be very close. 

PS:  I wasn't actually at Mavericks but TRACE just lumps the whole point into "Mavericks" . . . . which I am fine with because it is even funnier.  I did estimate the waves at 8 to 14+ ft but with a lot of lump and 6 - 10 mph of wind.  No place a proner would like to be but I had a lot of fun and it restored my faith that WE, SUP'ers, can surf and find edible corn in the nastiest of excrement.  Party on!
Title: Re: Bogus data from the Trace app
Post by: PonoBill on April 23, 2017, 12:31:44 PM
Tasty. I'm so jealous.
Title: Re: Bogus data from the Trace app
Post by: PonoBill on April 23, 2017, 03:15:43 PM
Speaking of Tensor Calculus, Oh, we weren't? Well, anyway, I love this guy. He's got a bunch of youtube videos but this one on embedding and the theories of John Nash is breathtaking.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHKa8F-RsEM
Title: Re: Bogus data from the Trace app
Post by: APPST_Paddle on April 23, 2017, 05:47:26 PM
I like the Trace, but I had one stop working after roughly 8 months, they gave me 50% off a new one, and it somehow or another popped off the rear of my board (I think the leash wrapped around it). It was on the rear because it's a Jimmy Lewis board with a full deck pad, so I couldn't put it on the nose.

I always had sync issues too, I've got the Rip Curl Search GPS my wife got me and while it doesn't have as much data as the Trace, it's easy to use and seems to be more accurate on what is actually a wave taken.
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