Standup Zone Forum
Stand Up Paddle => SUP General => Topic started by: Wetstuff on April 06, 2017, 01:49:10 PM
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How'z come? When I open the Zone there are typically only <10% of us looking thru this site who are also registered/posting? Moments ago there were 145 people who are seemingly interested in 'things SUP' ...but, maybe not? Which means there may be thousands daily passing thru as if they are on an internet bus, not getting off at this stop.
If they've lurked enough they may not want to talk about their new Yugo SUP board amongst those who discuss changing the clutch pedal pad on their new M3 for a softer compound. However, they should well and know there are people here (not necessarily me) who could not only save them $$ but a lot of time and newbie headaches. There are a lot of 'unknowables', even for old surfers or kayakers. I have wasted a lot of time buying inappropriate boards acting as my own counsel.
Looker.. there's a lot to know. Don't by shy; register and ask before you hand your Visa card to the first guy who gives you a great deal on a board or paddle from China.
Ask first. Have an idea of how/where you would like to paddle, what sort of short term goals you may have, but ask.
Jim
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On all of the different sites I'm a registered member of, there is always a very large number of lurkers versus registered members. This is just the nature of the beast for forums on the internet.
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Common you lot get on it!
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...and the shortage of video and photos?! Other than a few outliers, like Creek, there are remarkably few enhancements to opinions. Some of the most prolific keyboarders are seemingly reluctant to demonstrate what they contend. Few of us are around professional videographers -like tde's recent posting- but there's probably not a single poster here that does not have a camera or GoPro.
Perhaps some of these 'just passing thru' folks keep moving because they are looking for more than short, cryptic (SUP knowledge) opinions—certainlty not political advice.
I cannot remember the last shaper who has talked about a design feature? There Blaine Chambers, Kirk McGinty, the Infinity crew, folks from OZ and many others that are remarkable by their absence?! Warren Thomas does a good job at describing his line. Bert of Sunova has some really interesting videos, but, damn, there's a ton of other folks with refinements and new ideas that we're not seeing. I don't expect much from the sailboard companies, they're basically marketing fronts, and small local shapers don't have the time. Even the paddle guys, who a couple of years ago showed us how to swing an ax, and had plenty of new product, are mostly silent?
Perhaps everything that is going to happen has already happened and the only future is Foils. I hope not... but from the lack of participation, it appears that way.
Jim
(Out of the water Nov-May.. is my excuse for keyboarding-only.)
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I look, read , and post once in a while.... mainly because I'm a small percentage of the traffic'rs here and pretty much interested on the technology which peaks my interest in general, but more because I am one of the few who has adapted the SUP strictly for sight fishing in shallow clear waters. Coule count on one hand the number of people who are in that group.
I don't post just to post or jump on a bandwagon.
I belong to many forums like this one, paddle fishing sites, and this site gets more traffic than most. What I have noticed over the past 4 years or so is that social media has taken away the traffic. Sites that used to have many lurkers, guest, and members that had many post daily have dropped in traffic to a few post a day from die-hard old timers.
Social media is just to easy, post, blast, and forget.
On the other hand I have received a boat load of information from this site when getting into this as a hobby.... and appretiate the efforts of the small percentage that does post. I don't do video but do photos pretty much every fishing trip however I chase Bonefish and Permit which are scarce for the past couple years and if I catch a fish it was a very lucky day and I'll do better at posting photos in the fishing section.
The SUP fishing community is getting bigger and a couple manufactures are producing some interesting stuff.
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I don't see the problem here. Still one of my most visited places on the internet.
Could care less about the lurkers.
I think you're right about the social media aspect. I have absolute zero social activity apart from here and the breeze. I think most of us are of a certain age where it plays no part in our lives and taking part here is enough.
As far as participation, interesting threads ebb and flow. Compared to some places I think we're fairly pleasent with each other.
Videos are fun to watch. I try to put up some enjoyable stuff. And some others also keep up the flow.
If the other GoPro users took the camera off the nose of their board and mounted it with a different view I think they might be more apt to post the footage.
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but there's probably not a single poster here that does not have a camera or GoPro.
Well, I'm one of those who doesn't own a camera or a GoPro. For taking photos, I have to borrow my wife's iPad.......and then I have to ask her how to use it to take pictures. :-[
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Krash...I bet there are a ton of people who would be interested in SUP fishing activities.
I have run into more than few folks asking me about boards to fish off of.
I'm not a fisherman, but the thought of fly fishing off one of these is pretty interesting.
Couple of Zoners into flats fishing on SUP, I always enjoy their posts.
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I need to start taking pictures again. I've got the gear, i just kind of stopped. It takes more than a bit of work to shoot and edit and time is not something I always have a lot of.
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I am happy to start posting session photos ? But with facebook and instagram who has time for "old school forums" . Even with tapatalk it not as mobile friendly as other forms of social media . One of my favorite snowboard forums has the same problem and its directly related to new "facebook" private groups . http://forums.bomberonline.com/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/613209372203439/
Here are a couple Oregon pics from the last 2 weeks . Enjoy
Jim
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A lot of the "Lookers" are actually bots and spiders and hacker programs :P
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Zone threads are often some of the first hits people get when searching for specific boards. People may come, look at the specific information they want, and then go on with their lives.
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But with facebook and instagram who has time for "old school forums" .
Here are a couple Oregon pics from the last 2 weeks . Enjoy
Jim
That's what I mean. This is an old school forum.
I'm not sure who it's a shame for but I've never been on facegram or instachat.
But thanks for taking the time Jim, the Oregon pics were nice to see and imagine.
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But with facebook and instagram who has time for "old school forums" .
Here are a couple Oregon pics from the last 2 weeks . Enjoy
Jim
That's what I mean. This is an old school forum.
I'm not sure who it's a shame for but I've never been on facegram or instachat.
But thanks for taking the time Jim, the Oregon pics were nice to see and imagine.
Don't get me wrong I love suz and learned so much through the years and still log in regularly when sitting at home or work. One of my friends is a mod on another forum and we have noticed a drop off due to the these newer "groups" especially for selling gear . I totally respect opting out ! It's also bots as someone pointed out. The wealth of knowledge gained from the collective experience of everyone is unmatched.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk
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I look, read , and post once in a while.... mainly because I'm a small percentage of the traffic'rs here and pretty much interested on the technology which peaks my interest in general, but more because I am one of the few who has adapted the SUP strictly for sight fishing in shallow clear waters. Coule count on one hand the number of people who are in that group.
I don't post just to post or jump on a bandwagon.
I belong to many forums like this one, paddle fishing sites, and this site gets more traffic than most. What I have noticed over the past 4 years or so is that social media has taken away the traffic. Sites that used to have many lurkers, guest, and members that had many post daily have dropped in traffic to a few post a day from die-hard old timers.
Social media is just to easy, post, blast, and forget.
On the other hand I have received a boat load of information from this site when getting into this as a hobby.... and appretiate the efforts of the small percentage that does post. I don't do video but do photos pretty much every fishing trip however I chase Bonefish and Permit which are scarce for the past couple years and if I catch a fish it was a very lucky day and I'll do better at posting photos in the fishing section.
The SUP fishing community is getting bigger and a couple manufactures are producing some interesting stuff.
Hey Krash,
I am part of that small SUP sightfishing community you are talking about. The plastic navy is not converting over that much in my opinion. I hear a lot in the distance or near docks people talking when they see fishing off my board. The usual thing I hear is that it is too much work.
Last year, I did boards and beach festival in Cocoa Beach. They had a SUP fishing tournament. Only 14 fished it. Granted a lot of people were probaly turned off by the horrible red tide conditions they faced. I almost decided not to bother. It was very bad though. Only 5 people caught fish and a 10" redfish with an 8" trout won it. This year they included the kayaks and there were 105 entrants with maybe 6 or 7 sups that I recall. And those did not look like dedicated sup fisherman. I have been working a lot lately and my schedule is not letting up so that is why my fishing reports have been lacking.
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A lot of the "Lookers" are actually bots and spiders and hacker programs :P
Nah, outside of the few we want indexing we bounce them guys. They can be cripplers.
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Ninja I hear ya... yea I get the pointing and laughs when many see me paddling through a channel or up to a ramp... but I like it.
I've fished a few paddle tournaments on the SUP, may in my kayak before the SUP, and many as well in my canoe. The canoe has been covered for at least a year now, but I do take it when I go to Choko where there are oysters to worry about hitting.
Not many people today want to minimize to the SUP level, most new paddle fishermen get a wide kayak with lawn chair seating... but very few can come close to keeping up with me on the flats.
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One thing I think would encourage more lookers to come is having more low-end conversations. The skill level here is very high, and thus the conversations tend to focus on the high end: which is the fastest race board, foiling, low-volume surf SUPs, amazing athletes. Sometimes I feel like I'm intruding if I post about my all-arounders or some dumb SUP thing I'm doing because it's pretty pedestrian.
This isn't me saying “Stop the high-end conversations!“ I just think that this might scare away a few people. And hey, I'll be happy to help with that. Maybe we need a “Beginners” category? That might help. This could be a place where anybody could post about anything. No question too basic!
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If a person is interested in standup paddle boarding, they'll hunt all over the internet for info. Info wise, I think the Zone and Seabreeze sites are the only forums where supping is in high volume when it comes to sup information. These people will either lurk or they'll become members. That is the long and short of it.
As for me; I was committed to supping since my kayak days, because of my bad lower back, were over. After a few months of lurking on the Zone site, I decided to register and become a member.
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I hear you Night Wing. I want to add that a lot of people want to go that extra step and talk to other people. They really need that feedback, especially at the beginner level.
This is just my suggestion to get people more involved.
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Krash... Add me to the list of seeing what you're doing. These boards can be pretty versitile. I sneak around guts and bays in my area—every once in a while—flush a Sea Trout and frequently Skates back in these shallows.
(http://wetstuff.com/ideas/AZTK.jpg)
If there were more fish here, I could see using UL spinning gear like we used to use for panfish back in Wisconsin. It can certainly add to the SUP opportunity and expirence. Bonefish, 'I gather', are something else...
Jim
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Krash, I need to start fishing on my SUP again, here in Hood River it's a killer advantage. If the boat fishermen knew how well we can see fish from a SUP they'd either get one or try to get them banned. Casting above and drifting a fly past a Coho that you can see is one-cast fishing. Not so much for Kings and Steelhead, but it's still better than fishing blind. Funny to see a clot of boats sitting where someone caught a fish with nothing under them, and a logjam of Kings a hundred yards away.
Ichabod--I think people here are astonishingly patient with answering the same question hundreds of times. On most forums I belong to people will rant at you for asking about stuff that's in the archives. Always funny to see the rant takes more typing than the answer. My answers always tend to be long because I type fast. Thinking enough to write something concise takes more time than just blasting out my train of thought. Or as Oscar Wilde is supposed to have said "Sorry for the long letter, I didn't have time to write a short one."
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Yeah, I'm not criticizing anybody for being impatient. I apologize if what I said came off that way. I'm thinking more of a structural change that might make the site more welcoming.
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The reason I became a member on the Zone site, but remain a lurker on the Seabreeze site, is because of the diversification of info on the Zone site.
Here on the Zone site there is info on flat water paddling, info on downwinding, info on sup surfing waves, info on sup surfing tanker waves and even info on sup fishing (and crabbing which I can do from my sup).
On the Seabreeze site, the info there is geared mainly to sup surfing and downwinding. Since I do mostly flat water paddling, I don't think I would ever post anything on the Seabreeze site if I was a registered member on there so I just lurk on the SB site.
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Maybe we need a “Beginners” category? That might help. This could be a place where anybody could post about anything. No question too basic!
I think that's a great idea to attract more members and posters.
I am a member of a Ukulele Forum and they have a Category just for beginners. It's called "UKULELE BEGINNERS If you are a beginner here's your board. Ask your questions here." You get a lot of newbies posting, with a lot of helpful answers.
They also have a board for new members called "NEW MEMBER INTRODUCTIONS If you are new to UU, introduce yourself here." New members get a chance to learn how to post and a lot of the moderators will then welcome them and this seems like it opens up new members to post more.
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Yeah, I'm not criticizing anybody for being impatient. I apologize if what I said came off that way. I'm thinking more of a structural change that might make the site more welcoming.
I didn't think it was a criticism, I was just making an observation. I think the idea is a good one, though in my experience the beginner and intro sections of forums are ghost towns, with newbies asking "is anyone here?" and getting few answers.
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Two little kids, 1.5 to 2 jobs, and Instagram has slowed my participation on the Zone before I really got started. It is rare when I get some to get on the Zone but I will try to post a little more!
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I am a member of a Ukulele Forum...
Ukehunt?
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No "Beginners" category IMO
Beginner questions are most easily seen, answered and re-read in "General", since it is the most prominent and the lead category.
and.... no need to send them to the "Group W bench"
I find that I learn a lot myself, when I answer a newbie question.
It forces me to analyze exactly how I do something, so I can give a useful reply.
I have actually run "membership drives" in the past..... they always got a few casual readers to sign up. ;D
Personally, I find sharing the stoke with new potential SUPsters is what it's all about!
Note to folks on the fence about signing up:
We are not merely cyber friends on the Zone..... I have met 100's of Zoners in person, and every one of them has been a stellar human being. Truth!
These "Zoners" turned "friends" have become a part of my daily life....
Yesterday:
- I surfed with "Stoneaxe" and 'NEsurfSUP" and "Cyclops".... all whom I first met on the Zone. Stony drove an hour for some crap waves, but we had fun! (see pics)
- was invited to stay with a "Lurker" who befriended me on a trip to Myrtle beach. I stop in to see he and his family every time I go through VA Beach
- talked to my close friend JimK.... I will be seeing him on my way south next Wednesday.
- arranged to meet up with "Whatzup" next time he is in RI
- had made tentative plans to surf with "eastbound" but decide to stay at my local
- was given an open invitation to stay with a guy in Australia, near a great break
All that.... in one day.... because of the Zone.
Wednesday, I will head down the East Coast. I will be seeing or staying with Zoners the entire trip.
"Wetstuff" (his thread) has become a valued friend that I have visited many times. I will be seeing him several times this trip, for sure!
I'd say, THAT is worth signing up for ;D
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I think most beginners to sup are like me. When I first started researching sup, I wanted to learn first by doing flat water paddling. But I already knew I also wanted to do sup surfing and this is the reason why I chose my 8'10" Hammer.
Once I got the hang of flat water paddling on my short Hammer, then I turned my attention to sup surfing my Hammer down on Galveston Island on the upper Texas coast.
On a side note, when I was researching sup for flat water paddling, I ran across two nice flat water sup videos which I think were taken in Australia. Both videos are of the same session and depict a nice leisurely flat water paddle. The session for each video were taken with a GoPro camera facing the paddler and then facing away from the paddler. I was thinking of posting these two videos in the "Flat Water & Touring" forum which I think a beginner sup'er would like to see. Just have to title the post aimed at a beginner to sup to watch it.
Whether this would entice a few lurkers to register is reigister is unknown, but it just might make a non-registered lurker, register here on the Zone site and decide to participate by posting just like I did last year.
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Most SUP paddlers (or any paddlers) are pretty casual and do it for fun. I think the 'zone is a bit of bubble - seems like the demographic is older, male, and highly committed to the sport.
I just read a paddling report from 2014 that estimated 2.8 m people participated in SUP but the average number of trips a SUP paddler takes is 5/year with over 50% doing 3 or less. 11% of paddlers are out there more than 24 times per year. 5% are over 45. Roughly 50/50 men and women. So if you figure the demographic here is older, mostly male, and SUPing a lot, there isn't that big a pool.
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Maybe there would be more women participating but ... the first time I came to this site the top post was "Hot Chicks on SUPs" and I noticed it had hundreds of posts. I would think that would tend to turn off a lot of women who SUP. Where I surf about 30-50% of the SUP surfers are women, and the best local SUP surfers are women.
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Maybe there would be more women participating but ... the first time I came to this site the top post was "Hot Chicks on SUPs" and I noticed it had hundreds of posts. I would think that would tend to turn off a lot of women who SUP. Where I surf about 30-50% of the SUP surfers are women, and the best local SUP surfers are women.
Agree! The Hot Chicks tread and stalwart defense of it by core board members turned me off to this board.
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Most SUP paddlers (or any paddlers) are pretty casual and do it for fun. I think the 'zone is a bit of bubble - seems like the demographic is older, male, and highly committed to the sport.
I just read a paddling report from 2014 that estimated 2.8 m people participated in SUP but the average number of trips a SUP paddler takes is 5/year with over 50% doing 3 or less. 11% of paddlers are out there more than 24 times per year. 5% are over 45. Roughly 50/50 men and women. So if you figure the demographic here is older, mostly male, and SUPing a lot, there isn't that big a pool.
Definitely a bubble...our clients are split fairly evenly between the sexes...and, I suspect that it's pretty much like that for most SUP retailers...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8s9JIDZgXo
http://supsports.com/stoked/stoked-life-clients/
Bean recently highlighted the discrepancy in M/F posting ratios on this thread...
https://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,29425.0.html
Re: Team Riders
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2017, 04:17:41 AM »
=SUPsports
Kind of interesting that our board clients are mostly split between the sexes...but, for some reason this forum and others don't reflect true participation in the sport...lately from reading the posts here, you'd surmise that most SUP enthusiasts are upper 60's to almost over the hill...god bless their souls...but, it's not just a male geezer sport...;-)
None of my local paddle buddies (guys and girls) post on the Zone, they essentially think we're full of shit. But, we know that's not the case, the SUP knowledge that's shared here can not be found anywhere else in one place. Alright, time to hit the beach!
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Maybe there would be more women participating but ... the first time I came to this site the top post was "Hot Chicks on SUPs" and I noticed it had hundreds of posts. I would think that would tend to turn off a lot of women who SUP. Where I surf about 30-50% of the SUP surfers are women, and the best local SUP surfers are women.
Agree! The Hot Chicks thread and stalwart defense of it by core board members turned me off to this board.
Indeed. I remember that "defense." If I was a chick, I'd move on too.
That thread is still front and center in "general" rather than down in "random" where it belongs. IMHO, of course...
That thread is another clear example of objectification in the media and it has consequences. Why go there? Clickbait? Say it 'aint so... :(
http://steinhardt.nyu.edu/appsych/opus/issues/2016/spring/rooney
I'm a guy but I've been trying to get the "hot chicks" thread deleted for years. We will never have much female input here until we get rid of the silly high school boy content.
The struggle is real. Welcome.
I don't mind the hot chicks pictures, but some of the vulgar comments about the chicks are downright disturbing. As in the recent "meat curtains" vulgarity. Definitely not for minors. Makes you wonder how adults can be so sophomoric, or is that just moronic.
I'm a man as well, and glad I'm not the only that objects to that thread. for me it's not the nudity or prudishness, it's that viewing women in that shallow superficial way messes up my relationships. No matter how subtle it conditions men to believe they will be happier if their woman looks like that, and conditions women to believe they will be happier of they look like that. So to often men end up coveting other "hot" women, and women hate their bodies. From what I've seen in other cultures us men are not hard wired to find magazine cover girls attractive, it's programming. I can only imagine what the massive amount of photos and videos on the Internet does to young people, I know I was certainly confused in high school.
I hope to see more women and feminine energy on this forum and in the water.
Sigh...yeah I've objected to that thread as well, and been roundly attacked for it. So strong were the objections to my viewpoint that I wondered if I was being over-sensitive. So I showed it to my wife and asked her what she thought. Her verdict was succinct: "sad wank&rs".
It's a great shame there aren't more women in this forum. I've learnt a lot from several in the past, including (if I remember their handles correctly), JillRide and Celeste, whose contributions have been outstanding IMO.
So glad this topic was started. I am female. Middle aged. Pretty open minded. Think all of this hot chix stuff is pretty juvenile. Affects the whole attitude of the zone. Hopefully it will fade with time as the forum evolve. You know, we can all act like grown ups?
Another vote against the hot chicks thread. Its not that important if men are offended or like it. Its obviously sexist and exclusionary towards women. Would any respectful person talk about 'hot chicks' at a dinner with both men and women present.
The insistence on maintaining the thread demonstrates a self-indulgent nature.
I do agree that the thread is offensive. Of course I can choose not to read it, and I don't normally. I was curious enough about it a few days ago to check it out, and my distaste was confirmed. Caught the "meat curtain" comment, but I don't want to single that out, as so much of the thread is offensive and objectifying.
How many of the men on this forum could be categorized as "hot dudes"? My guess is that the men and women of this forum come in many different shapes, ages, and skill levels. We're here because we love SUP, because we want to learn and share knowledge, and because we want to share our interest with people who can relate. I wish the "hot chicks" thread would disappear because it is immediately off-putting to females. If the true goal is inclusion, than yes, maybe it's time to close that thread.
That being said, from what I've read on the forum, this is mostly a cool bunch of guys who are funny, helpful, and knowledgable. I've also seen posts from Jillride that are just as great----and surely there are other women posting who remain incognito.
I'm also in favour of the "hot chicks" thread being deleted. I appreciate the female body but that thread definitely isn't doing the zone any favours and needs to be gone. Old school and tasteless in large part.
I love the female form as much as the next guy, but I'm pretty sure the "Hot Chicks" thread is turning off women from joining. I'd rather not have this forum turn into a sausage fest.
I'm not being PC. If guys want to post pictures like that, maybe Instagram is a better place? That's fine with me. I just want all points of view. There are some smart women out there, and this place should be welcoming.
I dislike when people use the Hot Chicks thread to post photos for ridicule, especially those showing women heavier or less fit than the typical "hot chick". The Amy Schumer photo comes to mind. Nobody should ridicule anyone trying standup. The last thing I'd want to have happen is for a woman (or man) to see that ridicule here, and become self-conscious or discouraged from pursuing standup, or participating here.
With the typical Hot Chicks post, there's at least an argument to make that there's some potential benefit of seeing admiration for fit women performing at high levels. Many photos show women far more muscular than is true for any typical standard of "hot". Many also at least imply admiration for women being physically skilled and aggressive, which is also a positive change from earlier norms. Whether those justify the thread--or whether the thread needs any justification anyway-- is another matter.
But with the ridicule posts (and it's clear they're being posted for ridicule) there's no offsetting argument or benefit.
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You have already heard one female zone member express very clear dislike of that thread on this one. I suggest that we listen to her rather than try to defend the indefensible. I'm not going to blame anyone for posting there (including your bikini-fest videos, Robert). But times change and we should too.
I'm impressed by and grateful to you guys who are advocating for more inclusion, and for the changes that might be made to help with that. That's forward-thinking, as well as welcoming. Really cool.
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I'm new to the forum, I'm a male and I posted and enjoyed some pix of "hot SUPer" but it's true that the Zone would gain of getting rid of it.
I enjoy reading most of this forum and don't care about the gender of members.
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The insistence on maintaining the thread demonstrates a self-indulgent nature.
I do agree that the thread is offensive.
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Here, here....well said, and hopefully those able to make the appropriate changes do so...sooner than later.
To borrow from the past...."Admin, if you seek peace, if you seek prosperity for the Standup Zone, if you seek inclusion of all: Come here to this thread (http://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,15352.0.html)! Mr. Admin, open this forum! Mr. Admin, tear down this thread! (http://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,15352.0.html)"
I have to say that initially I didn’t mind the “hot chicks” thread. I’m not sure of the right words as I don’t want to be offensive, but to see an attractive, fit woman on a stand up board in a beautiful setting is very appealing to the eye. I just don’t see anything wrong with that.
But there are a couple of things come to mind that I really, really didn’t like. The first is a while back there was a picture posted of what to me looked like a very young girl squatting on the hand rails in an elevator. Maybe I’m wrong and maybe she wasn’t as young as I thought, but that particular posting bothered me. The other thing is when people post shots of overweight women and make fun of them. I find that distasteful and offensive and I think it says a lot more about the person posting the picture than it does about the woman in the photo. And yes, I agree that some of the other comments are also rude and distasteful. No place for any of that.
My wife is not a paddler, so she doesn’t come on this forum. I nevertheless mentioned this discussion to her and asked if a thread like the “hot chicks” thread would stop her from coming to, or participating in the forum. She said it would not, and that she would just choose to ignore that particular thread.
Having said all the above, if having this thread is in fact keeping women away from this site then it probably should be taken off. And further, if the women on this forum find it objectionable, then maybe it’s time.
Here's the thing....
I surf with several women who would be great participants here, but because of that one thread, and IMO the poor taste (or maybe posting immaturity) it portrays of some of the membership here, I've yet to tell them about this forum.
Sure, maybe "one bad apple/thread shouldn't spoil the bunch", but the last thing I'd want to have happen, is for them to log in here when that particular thread has worked its way back to be at the top of the list, have them open it, and risk the chance of them being offended, or think of me as someone who thinks that that type of objectification of women that it has been lowered to is somehow ok.
So rather than having to start explaining, "Oh and btw, there's this thread in there that you probably shouldn't open, or if you do, don't judge the entire place by it"....I simply say nothing about the SUZ to them. Sad, but it's just easier, and safer all the way around.
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Thanks spirit4earth for starting this discussion. As much as I am curious about which board is best or fastest or which paddle has the most efficient design, I would much rather talk about deeper topics of relating and how we can include everyone and create a place where all feel welcome. For me that's what I am really after anyway, connection and being present, surfing is a fun way for me be there.
I appreciate that men need a place where they talk among themselves away from women, and at the same time whatever female we are venting about is someone's mother, daughter, sister, niece, grandmother, and/or wife. I have no ill will or blame or shame for anyone posting in that thread, my hope is that we can stop and realize how the women in our lives would feel if they saw those posts.
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Because of this discussion I’ve thought a fair bit about the “hot chicks” thread and how I feel about it. I’ve come to the conclusion that I’m now definitely in the camp of wanting it removed. It is not because there are pictures of beautiful women, tastefully done. No, what I don’t like about the hot chicks thread is the kind of postings it attracts. Some are rude and vulgar and definitely in poor taste. We should be a forum that is inclusive and encouraging and some of the posts in that threat are, as Spirit4earth mentioned earlier, appealing to the lowest common denominator. The "good old boys" type of humour, if it can be called humour. There should be no place for that here.The other reason I’d like it removed is if women on this forum find it offensive, then out of respect for them I think it should come down.
I don’t know Spirt4earth. Have never met her but have carried on a few brief conversations with her over this forum. She strikes me as someone who is pretty level headed and who also seems to have a pretty good sense of humour. If someone like that takes offense, that makes me sit up and take notice.
I know Spirit you didn’t expect the conversation to go this way when you put up this posting, but I do think it is a worth while discussion to have. And thank you for participating in this subject, and also for participating in the forum as a whole and giving us all a woman’s perspective. I for one would not want to lose you, or any other women from this forum.
i would have no issue with the loss of the hot chicks thread, and with a general effort that content be considerate that women should feel welcome here.
and i have +1'ed several pics! bad boy!
The single most widely viewed thread on the zone is click bait and very demeaning towards women. I just looked at it and the last three pictures are classless, tasteless and are chosen solely to illicit the idiotic comments that are sure to follow. It's not just a few pictures like this, but many. Men over 40 posting the pictures too. I don't get it. I'm not into censorship either, but the thread is very classless for the most part.
To Weasels Wake - I can only speak for myself, but to me this has nothing to do with political correctness. It has everything to do with what’s right and wrong. More about that in a couple of minutes.
And to Stoneaxe, I understand the concerns about censorship. That is a legitimate concern, but even in the most democratic of societies there needs to be some form of censorship on certain things. I’m not using this as a parallel, but we have laws against hate speech. That is a form of censorship. And there are other similar type laws that society needs to function. And who gets to decide is always another concern. I do not agree that it should always be the majority. It once again comes down to right and wrong. So how do you decide that? Well, to me one test for this particular issue is would I want my wife or daughter to be seen in some of ways that are portrayed here. And the answer to that is definitely not. Take a look at a couple of the most recent postings. Women with their asses and other parts sticking up in the air with the picture being shot from behind. That’s just crude. This is not a men’s magazine nor do I think it should be. Another example is full, frontal nudity being posted recently. And when it was taken down, the poster said he knew it wouldn’t last. Well if you know it’s not appropriate, why post it?
Also, would I want my overweight daughter to have her picture put up and then have a bunch of men write in caustic, crude remarks about her? No, I would not.
And sorry for the term for those who are into being politically correct, but I am sure we’ve all run into the “ball buster” type females. This doesn’t strike me like that in the least. It strikes me that we have some women who find this offensive. Does that in and of itself mean the forum should come down? That is a consideration, but I agree with you here Stoneaxe that this alone should not mean it comes down. I just think it should come down because of the type of postings it attracts. I would not want my wife or daughter portrayed the way some women are portrayed in this forum and I believe it’s just wrong. Again, good old boys humour. People who think that cracking jokes at someone else’s expense is O.K., and it’s not O.K. and under no circumstances will it ever be O.K.
I have to admit I didn't care for the latest postings despite having coffee come through my nose from one. I definitely hate the body shaming stuff being the dad of a girl that was bullied because she got mom's height and dads width. But I also know that even she as an adult wouldn't give a shit what a bunch of old men that are being juvenile think.
At the same time maybe it is time to move on. The zone's history has always been more of a boys club that paralleled the sport somewhat. The sport has certainly moved beyond those days when the number of men far outweighed the women. Time for the zone to catch up? I'd much prefer to see women posting their own pics and vids of great sessions than have guys posting pics of women's asses.
And you're right. I'd like my granddaughter to see the zone as a great place to find women she can emulate rather than pictures that bring question to her value because she may not have a certain bodyshape. My same feeling about the checkout counter mags but that's a different if related issue.
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Let's not go down the "hot chicks" road again! Common decency would have that thread in the Random category at least, but if the PTB can't see that, why waste the energy on it?
What I find more intimidating and sometimes discouraging about the Zone is how most of the posters seem to have multiple boards, and expensive ones at that. This can be informative yet depressing to someone who can barely scrap together the money for one decent board. It does seem to be a forum for those with a lot of money for toys.
I like this forum a lot, though. It's educating, entertaining, and often inspiring. I'm happy to be a member! Now, if I could just get that board..... :) :)
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Spirit, where are you located? I'm a big believer in paying forward. Glad to give you a board if you aren't too far from Hood River or Maui.
People choose the kind of social media they participate in by how it connects to their interests and the depth and degree they pursue them. Assuming you know how that works and what it means is just projecting your particular biases, and has nothing to do with who would be here and what they would be like if your biases were accommodated. Explain if you would why Google Plus is 78% men and Instagram is 68% women. Explain, without resorting to sexism, why Pinterest is 84% women, with a majority having incomes greater than $75,000 per year.
Beasho might be able to scrape together something statistical, and I could lie about it convincingly, but for most of those who object, your pronunciations will be anecdotal, unsupported by any facts other than ones you dream up. So give up on the "if we build it, they will come" argument. It's nonsense. Stick with "change it because I don't like it". At least that will be real.
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Spirit, where are you located? I'm a big believer in paying forward. glad to give you a board if you aren't too far from Hood River or Maui.
Bill, that is so kind of you! I would humbly accept, but I'm not in your area yet. I'm in western North Carolina, heading to DC May 15, and then quite probably heading west to visit friends in Seattle and Portland. I had wanted to stop in Hood River because you've mentioned it so many times---it's far beyond my beginner skill level, but I want to see the area and gain inspiration for my golden years!
Again, thank you so very much for the offer!
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Lots of beginner paddling in the Gorge, and you might surprise yourself. Difficulty of downwinding in the Gorge is self-selected. You can hug the Oregon side and ride little bumps, or even no bumps, head out a little and get some heavier stuff, go out to the middle to go nutz, and slide over to the Washington side at Swell City and get some overhead rollers. If you come here, PM me and I'll set you up. Standard zoner thing. I've had plenty of people on the Zone help me, always glad to pay those favors forward.
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Spirit, where are you located? I'm a big believer in paying forward. Glad to give you a board if you aren't too far from Hood River or Maui.
People choose the kind of social media they participate in by how it connects to their interests and the depth and degree they pursue them. Assuming you know how that works and what it means is just projecting your particular biases, and has nothing to do with who would be here and what they would be like if your biases were accommodated. Explain if you would why Google Plus is 78% men and Instagram is 68% women. Explain, without resorting to sexism, why Pinterest is 84% women, with a majority having incomes greater than $75,000 per year.
Beasho might be able to scrape together something statistical, and I could lie about it convincingly, but for most of those who object, your pronunciations will be anecdotal, unsupported by any facts other than ones you dream up. So give up on the "if we build it, they will come" argument. It's nonsense. Stick with "change it because I don't like it". At least that will be real.
I agree with this, too. I would think that people wind up here because we've developed an interest in paddle boarding, and a curiosity about the sport, the gear, or the people who share our interest. Many of you are here because you're good friends with other members and it's a way of keeping in touch. Is It possible to lasso some ethereal change that might make more people post or get involved? I doubt it. If you change something, there might be people who feel more comfortable here, but there might also be people who feel less so. It would be like a cat trying to catch a laser. It can't be all things to all paddlers. Anyway, I like it, and I'm about as different from the core group as you can get.
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Lots of beginner paddling in the Gorge, and you might surprise yourself. Difficulty of downwinding in the Gorge is self-selected. You can hug the Oregon side and ride little bumps, or even no bumps, head out a little and get some heavier stuff, go out to the middle to go nutz, and slide over to the Washington side at Swell City and get some overhead rollers. If you come here, PM me and I'll set you up. Standard zoner thing. I've had plenty of people on the Zone help me, always glad to pay those favors forward.
I definitely will let you know if I make it out there! It sounds like great fun just to watch---and to get wet! Thank you again!