Standup Zone Forum
The Foil Zone => Foil SUP => Topic started by: clay on March 11, 2017, 07:03:40 PM
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First time ever surfing/riding/trying a foil. The Go Foil Maliko:
https://clayisland.com/first-time-foil-surfing (https://clayisland.com/first-time-foil-surfing)
Also first time using a tuttle box. The bolts supplied came with metal washers, do folks really tighten metal bolts against the glass? I bought some rubber washers for padding. Anyone know what the designed or recommended way is to bolt a tuttle foil/fin?
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Man, thanks for sharing the learning curve. Keep at it. Does it feel weird when it's skimming like that? Can you feel the lift?
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Clay, how much do you weight? I want to get one so bad, but at 225 lbs I think I might be asking too much.
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Very cool!
How is the speed when you are up on the foil?
Is it faster than a regular sup?
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Nice Clay! Keep at it.
From what I hear even top guys put 2 hours a day to dial this down.
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Good job Clay, I always enjoy your videos and commentary.
I don't know anything about Tuttle foils, but I have used Tuttle boxes on some of my windsurf boards for decades. I don't know if its necessary, but I have always put a plastic or rubber washer between the metal washer and the glass. It just makes me more comfortable as I tighten the bolts down. The Tuttle bases are anchored so solidly into the cassettes that I was never concerned with a rubber washer allowing any play.
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Cool Clay,
I hope to one day look back at my learning to foil days with the same fondness that I have had with some of the other sports that I have reached a moderate level of competence with...;-)
nalu-sup's experience with windsurf Tuttle boxes over the last several decades, has been my experience as well...
On my custom carbon Hammer windSUP/windFoil/SUP, I used some trick molded rubber washers that I had leftover from a few of my Starboard slalom boards that had Tuttle boxes to mount my Horue foil...even sandwiched that further using the pad under the back bolt...but, any rubber or plastic washer would work...in fact, I used to make my own by cutting donuts out of sheet rubber...
The shipment of GoFoil Kais and Malikos that I have been waiting patiently since last year for, has just departed South Korea and will be here in a few days...
I'm getting stoked to finally give the GoFoils a go...as are a couple of local clients that I just finished deep Tuttle box installations for...
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I've seen every likely connection of a Tuttle to a board. Most manufacturers just used stainless washers. I never thought that made much sense. They also used screws that were hard on booties if you stepped on them--especially the slotted screw versions.
I found some Delrin flat countersink washers with shoulders just barely high enough to bury a button head bolt and then I use stainless button screws with Allen heads. Actually, the first bolts I used were called bleacher bolts, which have an extremely low profile head to prevent butt cuts, and they came with a Delrin guard. I haven't seen one of those in 20+ years, but they were great. You should be able to get the more standard stuff at any Ace hardware.
This is from ancient memory, but I think most Tuttle fins take an M6 bolt, 35mm long. M6 only comes in one thread pitch as far as I know--1.0, so you don't need to worry about that. A few rare beasts had 1/4-20, there's always someone who just didn't get the memo, but since these foils are made in Asia I'd expect metric. I had one of those canard fins that had 1/4-28. That's enough to piss off the pope.
Do the foils have replaceable nuts? Generally brass barrel nuts that you can push through. Be nice if they did. With the long distance down to the nut and screwing blind, it's easy to cross thread and damage the nut.
The key is to turn the screw in all the way with just your fingers, and then tighten. I actually found stainless steel replacements at Mcmaster-Carr a zillion years ago. https://www.mcmaster.com/ These guys have everything--except bleacher bolts.
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Keep going Clay. A handful of my friends are now foiling a SanO. Most of them of home made. I surfed with one of my foiling friends 2 days ago. He was telling some of the in and outs. He said you want to stay away from the white water and steep waves. High tide rollers work really well. I have to admit, I was giving him some space. No party waves or you take a risk. His foil line is way different than mine. He's getting pretty good though.
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@Clay
Through trial and error, you'll get the hang of it. I have no doubt of that. You've got the patience and perseverance and both of these attributes will pay off for you.
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...snippity...
A few rare beasts had 1/4-20, there's always someone who just didn't get the memo, but since these foils are made in Asia I'd expect metric...snippity...
At the peak of my windsurf fin manufacturing, I offered fins in Tuttle or Powerbox base configs with metric or 'merican 1/4"-20 brass barrel nuts...most good gas station mechanic dudes have an assortment of SS 1/4"-20 bolts that have bailed myself, and other folks, out of a pinch while on the road for a windsurfari...
I remember an epic trip to a pointbreak in the Baja desert...after arriving, one lonely and frantic wavesailor came running up to us to trade a six pack of beer for a fin screw and plate...he hadn't been able to wavesail for several days because he lost them after he took them all out of his boards packing...cost him hundreds of waves as it was too windy to prone surf...
In addition to bolt threads, the brass barrel nuts also come in varying OD's...
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No question that 1/4-20 is easier to get in the US.
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Cool.
Thanks for the feedback and all the tips and support, very helpful.
The bolts/nuts are metric M6, the barrel nuts rotate so I assume they are replaceable. My board is very thick and trying to find metric long bolts required several trips to a couple hardware stores.
Glad I am not the only one who thinks rubber washers are a good idea.
I weigh around 195, when I popped the foil clean out of the water it felt very powerful and speedy - that's what scared me - instant power and I felt completely out of control. So I assume there is plenty of lift available.
Riding up on the foil it seemed to feel faster, a lot going on on my first try so hard to have a clear understanding of all that is happening. I heard it humming before I felt the lift. My buddy said he would see me do bursts of acceleration, so I guess that's the foil lift and speed.
I sure hope foiling is like all things SUP and after a steep learning curve it will feel easy and natural.
Paddling I notice the foil "moving" differently than a regular fin, not sure how to accurately describe it. And when going for a wave I found that lining up perfectly perpendicular helped keep me from getting off balance and falling. When up on foil the roll axis is a new feeling for me, and gave me the biggest challenge.
After several waves I tried pumping and that feels very natural, much more like a prone shortboard, I guess going from 12 feet to 3 feet of water contact is why this is so.
There was quite a bit of surface texture and bump on the water, I hoping that on a glassy day it will be easier. :)
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From what everyone says, getting dragged behind a boat or jetski for the first day makes everything much easier.
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From what everyone says, getting dragged behind a boat or jetski for the first day makes everything much easier.
I would say mandatory . I couldn't imagine trying it with any success if you don't know what it feels like already by riding with a kite or maybe sailboard.
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Clay, also check out the Blue Planet thread with headmount's comments on the front foot.
Watching your video, you might want to check your front foot. He's saying that that's critical, which I would totally have missed in my "mind surfing."
Sorry to offer "advice" here, not usually my style to do this from my chair when someone's out there doing it in the water, but I thought maybe this would help. Not to derail but since you seem into this sort of stuff I'll give you may favorite saying on the subject. "Unsolicited advice is a form of abuse." Hope this is seen as friendly and not critical. You are killing it and I promise to share my blooper reel when I can. ;)
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Clay, Very cool that you documented day one..... everything is a process, and you vids will help ease the path of others!
Keep em' coming.... and watch out for the pointy end.
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Thanks Clay, nice video, it's harder than it looks! You did well for your first attempt. Make sure your feet are right on the center line of the board and your weight needs to be centered right over the front wing before lifting it up, otherwise it's impossible to control it. The hardest part is not getting it to lift out of the water but to keep it flying level and balanced, so just focus on lifting slowly, gently and controlled. As soon as the board lifts out of the water you speed up and the foil creates even more lift so you really need to apply front foot pressure to keep it flying level and not shoot up too high and out of control. Keep trying, you'll get it and as mentioned, got someone to tow you to get the foil-feeling. Most guys on Maui are using straps and I think a big advantage is that it makes you place your feet in the right positions before flying. I'm still going strapless but plan to try it with straps soon.
I have not tried it on a downwinder yet but I can imagine its even more difficult than in waves. Aloha!
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Yeah, great vid again, Clay.
You have some cojones. I don't think foils are the thing I would choose to pioneer. It looks too much like trying to ride Messala's chariot without falling on the wheels.