Standup Zone Forum
Stand Up Paddle => Gear Talk => SUP Gear Reviews / Newly Acquired / On Order => Topic started by: viatormundi on December 08, 2016, 10:51:40 AM
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My Jimmy Lewis Rail 14X28 has arrived a week ago. It is the regular sandwich construction. It does not weigh so much for its size and volume. The look and finishing quality is very good. I have tested it in flat and choppy waters and it is really stable. I weigh 80 kgs and 1.80 m tall. It is surprisingly fast on the flat water. Not as fast as a race board for sure but definitely faster than SIC 14 V2 that I tested before. I look forward to use the Rail in a real downwind session soon. But considering its flat & choppy water performance, weight and balance, I can recommend it as a open water board as well. The European Jimmy Lewis dealer and Jimmy Lewis were very helpful in the purchase process. It is really great that Jimmy takes his time and answers his customer's emails!
(https://s24.postimg.org/uxop6j585/IMG_3128.jpg)
(https://s27.postimg.org/4ynem6mrn/IMG_3130.jpg)
And here it is among other boards before a race
(https://s29.postimg.org/t4csd2lx3/15370176_1469894169706014_6792206066797989699_o.jpg)
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Nice. But why would it be faster in flat water than the narrower and less rockered Bullet 14 V2? I find all these DW boards to be pretty similar in speeds, which is about 6% slower than an equivalent flat water board in pure flat water (and about 6+% faster downwind).
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Nice. But why would it be faster in flat water than the narrower and less rockered Bullet 14 V2? I find all these DW boards to be pretty similar in speeds, which is about 6% slower than an equivalent flat water board in pure flat water (and about 6+% faster downwind).
I don't know. Maybe because it weighs less, the V2 that I tested had the rudder system and weighed more. The Rail glides more or keeps the speed longer in a way. At least that is the feeling I got. Your 6% assessment sounds correct to me. With the Rail I was paddling for example 8 km/h and on a more race oriented board I would have a speed of 8.5-9 km/h (depending on the board) with the same effort.
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Congrats on your newest purchase. She looks real nice.
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Nice board... and nice aerial photo... very cool!
(I'm able to view some posted photos on my desktop, but not others... odd. These I could only view on my iphone.)
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That's a beautiful board. I bet that color really pops in person.
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I am lucky to be friends with the Jimmy Lewis rep in Canada and have spent a good amount of time on the Rail and Sidewinder on the same day in the same conditions. In many different conditions. It is a great board. We had a speedcoach on both and found that it was about the same amount of work to paddle to about 6mph but above that it was a little more work in flat conditions. Once the wind and waves build then they start to even out both into and downwind and when it get bigger the rail comes into its own.
If I had to get only one board and was not racing but had many chances to downwind I would definitely pick the Rail.
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Wow that board looks sharp. Love the color. Nice long nose.
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Nice. But why would it be faster in flat water than the narrower and less rockered Bullet 14 V2? I find all these DW boards to be pretty similar in speeds, which is about 6% slower than an equivalent flat water board in pure flat water (and about 6+% faster downwind).
I don't know. Maybe because it weighs less, the V2 that I tested had the rudder system and weighed more. The Rail glides more or keeps the speed longer in a way. At least that is the feeling I got. Your 6% assessment sounds correct to me. With the Rail I was paddling for example 8 km/h and on a more race oriented board I would have a speed of 8.5-9 km/h (depending on the board) with the same effort.
First off the Rail is narrower than a Bullet V2, but that’s just speaking of the widest part of each board. The Rail is much pointier both at tip and tail making it very sleek as it moves through water. Another thing you’ll notice is the “shoulder” of the board, about where you plant your paddle is far narrower than a Bullet, possibly even narrower than, say, a Naish Maliko. Nice.
A surprising thing to notice paddling next to a Rail is it leaves absolutely no wake. Think about it!
The pointy narrow tail does mean when you take a step back it’s a bit tricker than a Bullet. In general it doesn’t have a big board feel to it but it is so nicely balanced and well behaved that I believe one gets used to it very quickly.
Yes, the Rail has a slight bit more nose rocker. Once weighted in water the difference is a lot less dramatic. It’s a lower volume board than a Bullet.
I concur with what Victor and Simcoe said. Awesome all-round board. The best in chop (and we know chop here!).
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How were you able to get one in 28"?
The JL website only offers 26.5".
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That's a beautiful board. I bet that color really pops in person.
Yes, the orange color is quite shiny.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
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Nice. But why would it be faster in flat water than the narrower and less rockered Bullet 14 V2? I find all these DW boards to be pretty similar in speeds, which is about 6% slower than an equivalent flat water board in pure flat water (and about 6+% faster downwind).
I don't know. Maybe because it weighs less, the V2 that I tested had the rudder system and weighed more. The Rail glides more or keeps the speed longer in a way. At least that is the feeling I got. Your 6% assessment sounds correct to me. With the Rail I was paddling for example 8 km/h and on a more race oriented board I would have a speed of 8.5-9 km/h (depending on the board) with the same effort.
First off the Rail is narrower than a Bullet V2, but that’s just speaking of the widest part of each board. The Rail is much pointier both at tip and tail making it very sleek as it moves through water. Another thing you’ll notice is the “shoulder” of the board, about where you plant your paddle is far narrower than a Bullet, possibly even narrower than, say, a Naish Maliko. Nice.
Yes, the Rail has a slight bit more nose rocker. Once weighted in water the difference is a lot less dramatic. It’s a lower volume board than a Bullet.
I think this is why it felt faster than V2 on the flat water. Also the pointy nose closer to the surface due to lower volume as you say.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
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How were you able to get one in 28"?
The JL website only offers 26.5".
In Europe they offer both 26'5" and 28".
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
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That really is a beautiful board & color combination.
I might be slightly biased.
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I sure like the looks of that board.....reminds me of the newer Imagine Connectors ;)
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If you're below 160, yeah this is a great board but above my opinion is to go 28". I'm 190 and the 28" is great. Jimmy often uses the 28"
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Would be interesting to feel the difference btwn the Rail 28 and M14. Probs would be on the scale of a Bullet 14 to 14V2 difference. Both of those boards have nuances that are noticeable right away even though they are the same width. The Bullet 14 is a more DW board vs the 14V2 more AW. Both are really nice boards. Would expect that the Rail with a double concave and panel vee to ride similar to the Bullet 14 - but with a big weight advantage in glass and especially the carbon version. Let us know how it works out on a DW run.
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The M14 and the Rail are much more similar to each other than the Bullet V1 and V2 are to each other. The two Bullets are completely different designs that share pretty much nothing in common except the name. I actually think they should have had different names. But the Rail and M14 are both similar style boards and the rail shapes, outlines and intended uses are much more similar. The Rail is less volume and has a little less rocker (although not much less) but otherwise the 14x28 Rail must be pretty similar to the M14. Both the Rail and M14 are much more similar to the Bullet 14v1 than the V2. The main difference between the JL boards and the V1 is that the V1 has softer rails up front and a different bottom shape - but the concepts and intended uses for the boards are very similar.
There isn't much else out there that's a lot like the Bullet 14 V2.
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What is the volume on the 28" Rail?
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Nevermind. Found it. It's 290 liters. Same as the M-14.
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What is the volume on the 28" Rail?
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Nevermind. Found it. It's 290 liters. Same as the M-14.
OK, well that begs the question of what exactly is the difference between the M14 and the 14x28 Rail. Same width, same volume, same general shape.
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The 28 Rail looks a great board and I bet it goes fantastic....it would be the board I would choose just now ...unless I had cash for a Maliko Jav.
I was comparing my M14 with my pals. I have the lower rockered version and my pal the original. Quite a difference in the rear half...my one certainly is flatter into the tail. His wil surf easier off the tail and be easier I guess in steeper stuff....mine in theory should get into the waves easier. Great boards.
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I think the Rail is thicker than M14. M14 looks more like an oversize surf board compared to Rail. It has slightly more rocker too. I tested M14 2 years ago, I might be wrong but Rail weighs less than M14 although they have the same volume. According to Jimmy, M14 shines when the swell is really big and the sea is really choppy, complicated. I chose the Rail because we don't have these big swells in the Mediterranean.
Today I did a training with the Mar Balear SUP Team, the leading team of Spain. They use mostly Allstars or SIC X-12'6 or 14. The sea was really flat. The Rail paddles fine at 8-8.5 km/h level but to get it up to 9 and keep it there requires significantly more effort compared to the race boards, as expected. I will hopefully receive the 2017 Sidewinder 14X25 in white color at the end of February. That one should be able to keep up with the Allstars and X-14s on flat water.
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The rocker in your pic doesn't look much different to my m14... very very similar...I have the lower rockered version. However, the Rail is diff in the hull and nose etc. I bet they handle pretty similar.
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The rocker in your pic doesn't look much different to my m14... very very similar...I have the lower rockered version. However, the Rail is diff in the hull and nose etc. I bet they handle pretty similar.
I compare it to the first version of M14. I have not seen the latest version of M14 here in Mallorca.
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Here is an ad copy description of the M14 and Rail. Would expect the Rail with double concaves to unstick faster than the M14 with a flat bottom. But think the Rail was initially concieved to be a narrower option to the M14. Edges on the Rail are probs quite a bit softer than the firm edges all round on the M14. Maybe viator can elaborate firsthand.
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coldsup - why switch to a 28 Rail from your M14? Our original M14 is the perfect DW board when conditions get festive. Much rather be on that vs my Bullet. So much more stable surfy and fun.
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Here is a pic that reflects the differences btwn my AS23 - V2 - and M14. Step back just a hair on the M14 and it handles the biggest drops with ease. Not as easy on the V2 - and not possible on the AS23. Very different boards that simply excel in the right conditions. This quiver of DW boards is perfect for us. For steep and deep go M14 every time. Major fun. ;)
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I like that shot as it clearly shows that each board is uniquely different ! Makes for a nice arsenal. I'd add a 14ft iSUP for exploring unknown territory.......when there is a serious chance of bumping into things!! ;) ;)
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The Bullet V1 is the one to compare with the M14. I owned both and sold the M14, good though it was.
You wouldn't really use the Bullet V2 and the M14 or V1 in the same conditions. It would be better to compare the V2 with the Bark Vapor.
Many people would be better off with the Bullet V1 rather than the V2. I use my V1 a lot more than my V2.
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The Bullet V1 is the one to compare with the M14. I owned both and sold the M14, good though it was.
You wouldn't really use the Bullet V2 and the M14 or V1 in the same conditions. It would be better to compare the V2 with the Bark Vapor.
Many people would be better off with the Bullet V1 rather than the V2. I use my V1 a lot more than my V2.
I am so gratified to see that it isn't only me. I have had a Bullet V2 for a season now, and have not fallen in love with it. I have been on a quest to find a lighter air downwind board, hoping to get a little "faster" in those conditions. I am not interested in flat water or racing, only downwind or surf. First I got a 2014 Naish Javelin LE because all the fast guys were on them.. I never felt relaxed on it, I hated it in big Hatchery conditions and I was not any faster to boot. I sold it to my buddy, who had been on a Bullet V1. and he loves it. Doesn't mind the challenge (also lighter than me). Next I bought the V2 as my lighter air board, and even though I like it better than the Javelin, meaning I find it more stable, I am still not as relaxed on it as I am on my F16 (admittedly that is apples to oranges) or my North Pacific custom, which is 29" wide, elf shoe front rockered and weighs 37 frickin pounds. I think the Bullet V1 has a rocker very similar to the F16, so I am guessing I would also prefer the V1 to my V2. I will test that out next season.
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The Bullet 14V2 is more of a small conditions DW board. The first gen V1 DCC with rudder I did not like as the rudder was positioned too far forward. But the 14V1 carbon with fixed fin was the most fun I have ever had on a DW run. The board planed with ease and was super fast. The double concaves and panel vee was the secret sauce in a light weight board. Weighs about the same as the V2. There are a few good used ones around - but not many.
The 14V2 is a nice stable AW DW board that is more versatile. Good if you have only one board and want to do a few DW runs each year. Many paddlers really like that board as it is so user friendly.
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laszlo - the F16 is a much more stable board than the Bullet 14V2. Kinda like an aircraft carrier. I was told that Mark says the F14 is the most stable -> then the F16 next. To give some perspective firsthand - if I step on the tail as in the pic - the nose of the Bullet does not even reach the tip of the M14. You can stay super forward on the M14 and catch every bump easily and not ever pearl. The original M14 is not that great planing because it has a flat tail designed to surf - not plane like a directionally stable panel vee. Jimmy is taking up the light weight void with his Rail. The original M14 and Bullet 14V2 provide a well diversified DW mix. Big vs moderate conditions. A good single DW board would be the original Bullet 14 carbon.
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coldsup - why switch to a 28 Rail from your M14? Our original M14 is the perfect DW board when conditions get festive. Much rather be on that vs my Bullet. So much more stable surfy and fun.
Eagle....nope...I ain't switching ...no need to. If I was to get another board...say if the M14 I have bust in two or something, then I would buy the 28 Rail instead as I think it would go better in our smaller conditions. It would maybe plane quicker etc. But then I haven't been on a bullet....but they are pricey over here.
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A short video showing the shape of the Rail
https://youtu.be/uiZ0qmBT-2M (https://youtu.be/uiZ0qmBT-2M)
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Here come couple of more pictures of the 14x28 Rail
(https://s23.postimg.org/qk27vpwgb/IMG_3157.jpg)
(https://s17.postimg.org/brxc0g7m7/IMG_3158.jpg)
(https://s27.postimg.org/z44l5z277/IMG_3160.jpg)
(https://s18.postimg.org/uw5zu5rnd/IMG_3159.jpg)
(https://s30.postimg.org/wknifl0oh/IMG_3166.jpg)
(https://s29.postimg.org/vjmeh3uw7/IMG_3162.jpg)
(https://s27.postimg.org/w3docvmfn/IMG_3163.jpg)
(https://s27.postimg.org/50rcjefdf/IMG_3164.jpg)
(https://s18.postimg.org/t5umzkdrt/IMG_3165.jpg)
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That's a seriously gorgeous board. It looks like a M14 crossed with a Bullet V1 and then cleaned up a bit. Quite a bit less rocker than the early M14s for sure. That looks like it would be a really great all-round ocean/DW board.
You haven't got a pic of the board upside down and from the side have you, so we can see the rocker line?
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Area 10,
would these pictures help?
(https://s30.postimg.org/q9bvlhddt/IMG_3050.jpg)
(https://s27.postimg.org/xc82yzimb/IMG_3049.jpg)
It is getting dark now, otherwise I can take some more pictures tomorrow.
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Thanks very much. It looks quite a lot like a Bullet 14V1 but probably with lower rocker. Hence why the rocket issue is so critical I think. I reckon there are a lot of people who would want a slightly lower rockered Bullet V1 that is better built and cheaper...
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Yeah - that board is a very nice update to the M14 and a lot different. Lighter weight - lower continuous rocker - softer edges - thicker volume. Probs has the beautiful JL finish and graphics as well. A modern spin on the Bullet 14 theme in widths narrower and wider than 27.25 - and much lighter than the TWC. Probs handles more forgiving than the Bullet with its continuous rocker.
The M14 should still be much more stable and handle adverse conditions better with its flat bottom - hard edges - and thin volume. The M14 sticks to the water like velcro where the Rail should release faster -> just like Jimmy intended. The M14 is like the elder statesman and the Rail the young kid. A M14 and 26.5 Rail would be a nice DW quiver. Here are some more pics of my M14.
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I sent Jimmy an email and he responded with a detailed and comprehensive response.
I took a screen shot and am attempting to post it.
Aloha! B-I-G
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Yep - the changes Jimmy made to the underbody of the Rail make sense to free up the board. The Bullet 14 and my Touring pintail have those same attributes. Very easy to release and plane with directional stability. My original version of the M14 has no panel vee at the tail - it is flat everywhere which makes the board stable and predictable but wants to be on an edge at speed. He is right on when he says if you want to do a lot of DW runs -> get a DW board. Makes it so much easier and so much more fun. You can do it on an AW or race board - but it simply is less fun. ;)
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Eagle,
I would venture to guess (based on you’re riding an Allstar23) that you could replace your Bullet V2 and M14 with a Rail x26.5. Pretty perfect quiver, an Allstar 23 and a Rail 26.5.
The Rail26, like Headcase says, is best for 160 lbs and less (up to 190 if skilled). it’s a nimble board but very predictable.
You should try one, Eagle. I realise with your cold waters that the Bullet and M14 will always keep you dry but at your level it would;t take long to tune into a Rail26.
Personally a Rail26 would be the ideal quiver of one for me. it may seem odd I don’t want a flatwater board on a lake but here we get mega boat chop in summer afternoons and risk a pretty good wind picking up from any direction at any time so a board capable of chop and sidewind is essential. Not planing on winning any races anyway.
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Have you tried a 14x26 Bark Vapor, Yugi? There's a new super-light one for 2017 (full carbon, vacuum-bagged, and a claimed 8 lbs lighter (!!) than the standard board). It is fast and fun downwind, will cope with just about anything wind- or chop-wise, and is a shade faster in flat water than a rockered downwind board.
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This thread is a perfect example of how important quality images are in understanding the shape of a board and what it's designed to do.
Way back last winter/spring when the Rail first appeared, the pics were terrible and all the videos were taken from GoPro's which do little to show what the board looks like or how it rides. The pics that were available at the time made it look too much like a race board and I had little interest in it. The pics on the JL website aren't any good either.
The photos on this thread really show the true shape. The Rail is nothing like what I thought it was. Now I want one.
When will companies like JL and Sunova learn how important quality images are? The website is where the dealers get their info. If the website is clueless then so are the dealers, and potential customers are left in the dark. It just makes good business sense to have a good website. It should be the nucleus of the company.
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^ Sunova has those great videos with Burt Berger explaining them, and they are on the website. yes, we do need a killer DW board from Sunova. Not a dugout please, nice clean surfboard inspired design.
Rogue has great presentation videos.
Everyone has a Bullet or a friend who has one.
I have a friend who has a Rail that I get to use.
Bases covered.
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Have you tried a 14x26 Bark Vapor, Yugi? There's a new super-light one for 2017 (full carbon, vacuum-bagged, and a claimed 8 lbs lighter (!!) than the standard board). It is fast and fun downwind, will cope with just about anything wind- or chop-wise, and is a shade faster in flat water than a rockered downwind board.
Damn! No! That we don't have around here.
You'll need to buy a Rail26 and let me know how they compare. The Rail is pretty sweet in flat, light chop and excels in heavy chop and DW. Those speeds that were quoted at the tp of this thread are for the Rail28. The Rail26 is a hell of a lot sleeker for flats and lightwind. Personally i don't need a bigger board tan the x26.5 (and I'm 55), I just need to get better.
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^ Sunova has those great videos with Burt Berger explaining them, and they are on the website. yes, we do need a killer DW board from Sunova. Not a dugout please, nice clean surfboard inspired design.
Yeah, Berts videos are great and Jimmy has some good ones too.
Still, the websites are lacking for good photos and we need more usable info in the descriptions.
I would love to see a surf inspired DW board from Sunova.
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8)
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Have you tried a 14x26 Bark Vapor, Yugi? There's a new super-light one for 2017 (full carbon, vacuum-bagged, and a claimed 8 lbs lighter (!!) than the standard board). It is fast and fun downwind, will cope with just about anything wind- or chop-wise, and is a shade faster in flat water than a rockered downwind board.
Damn! No! That we don't have around here.
You'll need to buy a Rail26 and let me know how they compare. The Rail is pretty sweet in flat, light chop and excels in heavy chop and DW. Those speeds that were quoted at the tp of this thread are for the Rail28. The Rail26 is a hell of a lot sleeker for flats and lightwind. Personally i don't need a bigger board tan the x26.5 (and I'm 55), I just need to get better.
Funny, there's a used one for sale near me, and I'm tempted. The trouble is that I already own SEVEN 14ft Downwind-type boards (I'm counting the Sidewinder in there although I don't downwind it). This really does beg the question of how many 14ft DW boards does anyone need ;D ;D
When I looked at it, the Rail looked pretty similar to my 14ft Bullet V1. Sleeker, but pretty similar overall. I'm not sure that I particularly want to go narrower than the Bullet in that design, since I already have narrower boards I could downwind on (e.g. 23" wide Sidewinder; 26" Vapor, 14x25 Ace, not to mention a 16x24.5" and a 17x26.75").
But it's such a gorgeous board, I am tempted nevertheless. I've no idea where I'd put it. But maybe actually the 14x28 Rail might offer me something that I don't have at the moment - a Bullet V1-type board but with more stability. It gets hell crappy and messy around here, and stability is speed in big conditions. Trouble is, it would mean buying one new, and I can get a custom made for the same price or less... decisions, decisions.... ;)
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Buy first, think later.
IMO it's the best chop n slop all conditions, including DW, board.
Then sell some you use less. I think you're beginning to have a wee bit of overlap in your quiver.
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Haha! "Buy first think later" is how I got into this mess! But I like your style, and there is indeed a use for a Darwinian approach to board ownership - keep buying and then sell the one you find yourself not using any more. Survival of the most used. (Although I do have a 12ft gun that doesn't get used often - but when time comes for it you really need it bad.)
Those pics of the Rail are excellent. The rocker is surprisingly flat for a DW board. I can now see why it goes well in flat water. I must give it a go...
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yugi - would suspect the 26.5 Rail to be a perfect fit to ride in these waters. You know I was looking for a prototype but never came across one. Definitely if I was in the market for a DW board the Rail would be top of the ticket.
The past months the only board I have used is the AS23. The tippy tippy has somehow disappeared and am feeling quite comfortable on that board now. Somehow have now fallen in since the first couple of weeks. Actually though you are probs 100% right -> an AS23 and 26.5 Rail would be a perfect quiver for me.
A10 - you know you want one. ;)
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Yes Eagle, I do want one - the moment I saw that lovely new blue color they are doing, I was sold ;D
Mind you, the U-Boat looks unreal now as well. When it first came out I remember saying to the UK JL dealer that it was shame it wasn't black and one of the lovely lovely blue colors that JL does instead of black and yellow. Well, now it is! Jimmy must be a mind-reader. It might not be the most practical colour scheme for hot climates but it sure looks absolutely fantastic to my eye. And we all now that boards that look nice go faster ;)
Btw, how well does the Rail surf?
One of the great advantages of the M14 over pretty much all of its competitors is that it is better to surf. I really enjoy surfing the long boards. In fact yesterday I was surfing my 16fter in chest-high waves and got some rides that were almost half a mile long. If the Rail is as good as the M14 for surf it would make an even stronger case for itself.
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^ it might be.
We lack surf here but on boat wakes it's quicker to take off and as easy to control than the M14. Maybe easier as it's less volume and a lot lighter (Lighter than a Bullet V2). It's like a smaller, nimbler and faster M14. Oh, and it glides longer. A bit tippy feeling at first but I think that goes away quickly.
Buy it, ride it, report back.
PS Then sell your 7 other 14' boards. With that cash you can get a Rail in every color. And a wide one to throw parties on.
PPS What's with the fascination with cutting bows? Aren't you in wind'n'chop bay?
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Yugi,
I see in your pictures that your Rail has the tracker fin as advertised on the catalogue. Mine came with the Sidewinder fin. Which of these are better for downwinds? The Sidewinder fin is more straight looks like the fins on SIC downwind boards.
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The tracker fin is great for stability in rough crappy conditions and straightline....try turning it ....oops! I binned mine quick.
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^yep. Came off quick. Those photos were its maiden voyage.
Jimmy likes those tracker fins but I much prefer a more upright one. Turning is the fun part.
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Yugi,
I see in your pictures that your Rail has the tracker fin as advertised on the catalogue. Mine came with the Sidewinder fin. Which of these are better for downwinds? The Sidewinder fin is more straight looks like the fins on SIC downwind boards.
Neither of them is any good for downwinding. Get yourself a True Ames Squirrel cutaway fin or a FCS II click-in Fat Boy and never look back...
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PPS What's with the fascination with cutting bows? Aren't you in wind'n'chop bay?
I'm lucky in that I have a wide range of conditions to paddle in just near me, from protected perfectly flat water to the kinds of conditions where suddenly all your friends seem to be mysteriously too busy to go paddling ;)
In pure flat water, and indeed, in mild upwind chop, you can't really beat a cutting bow. They are simply faster. The top pros tend to favour more all-round designs now I think because: (a) they can't carry a quiver of raceboards around with them, and races vary hugely in their conditions across the globe; (b) boof- or prone paddle-board nosed boards (and I'm bending the definition here to include e.g. the Maliko and Fanatic Falcon in this) are good for short sprints - useful not only for sprint races (see Caspar at the ISA Worlds on a Maliko) but also for the first few seconds of a race where you are sprinting to get out front into clear water; (c) boof- or prone-paddleboard nosed boards are good for drafting, and for 99% of the field in most international races, the result often comes down to how well you've drafted someone faster than you. So, the fact that this type of "all-waters" type board is seen more often in use by top pros isn't I think that they are faster in a straight line in most conditions (except big downwind). Instead it is created by the nature of racing and races. That's my theory, anyway. The GPS doesn't lie: in pure flat water my cutting bow nosed boards absolutely murder any of my non-cutting-bow ones over anything more than a long sprint.
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I may be going against the grain - but for more stability and drawn out turns the Tracker is perfectly fine. Just a tad too heavy in glass. But if you have enough stability and now want to turn a bit quicker - then go to a moderate sized fin like a FCS Touring. If your stability is still ok - then go to a small fin like the SIC 7.0 for quick turns and no broaching. We basically use 3 sizes and that covers all bases perfectly ok. Maybe some day will try a Fat Boy though.
If you are new to DW and feel tippy on your board - a more stable fin will help out a lot. When you are solid on that you will definitely want more performance. You can feel the speed difference immediately with a smaller fin. I actually use a big tracker fin on purpose at times because it forces me to pay very close attention and not broach on a DW run. Your margin of error becomes very small angling across waves - especially on my AS23. Makes it a little bit more challenging so that when you use a smaller fin - that becomes super easy to handle when you plop it in. I find now the Bullet 14V2 is overly stable for my purposes. It kinda feels like a dock and does not tip anymore. Weird how your perceptions change over time.
Jimmy maybe realized that the Tracker fin is just to big for most to handle - and most switch out anyways. I like the big Tracker as it has its purposes for me. For speed over 5 miles my AS23 was about 3-5% faster than my Dominator. You can definitely feel the drag on a wider board. Even the AS25 feels quite sluggish to me. Feels like I am towing an anchor oddly. So not for me. The AS23 cutting boof is more efficient and faster than my 27.5 deep vee Dom on relatively flat in the ocean.
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Eagle: have you tried a tracker on your Dom? If so, I bet you didn't like the combo. My wife's Stiletto came with a small tracker, and right from the first time out in cross chop it proved problematic. More so when dealing with the ever present wakeboard boat wakes.. The combo of the displacement nose and the tracker caused a lot of hammock swinging. Solution was a much smaller area semi dolphin shape - in this case I got a VMG Mako 37.
Anyways, it just goes to prove that there is no way that a single fin style can be matched with any style board, little own a particular paddling environment.
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^yes, we do need a killer DW board from Sunova. Not a dugout please, nice clean surfboard inspired design.
I would love to see a surf inspired DW board from Sunova.
How about the Search? Did anybody ride it ? Or at least seen it?
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I believe we got peeps here with a SunovaSearch in their quiver. They just need to amp up and go ride some wind waves to let us know how it feels. I'm fairly confident it puddles along just fine on the flats and wussy waves.
I know it can be nicely windy there.
;)
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How about the Search? Did anybody ride it ? Or at least seen it?
I demoed the Search 14 x 30 last winter and was really disappointed. Super stable, but it felt like a barge and really stuck to the water. Turning while paddling was very difficult, to the point that I would walk way back to pop the front half out of the water when making any change in direction. Slow to accelerate when paddling and didn't release at all in short period downbreeze bumps that a Bullet V2 would have eaten up. It caught some small waves to surf easily enough, but was such a pain to turn to catch a wave that it wasn't a ton of fun for that either.
Maybe it really shines in big downwind conditions, where its tremendous stability is an asset, and big, powerful wind and waves can overcome its considerable inertia, though I don't imagine it could be so much better than other pure downwind boards in those conditions to offset its awfulness in smaller stuff. Too bad, because I love my Sunova Speeed and had high hopes for this board.
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muskoka - the JL Tracker cannot fit in my Dom fin box. But have used the Gladiator Elite in there. When I first started paddling - my Dom came with the Elite. It was a popular combo at the time and really helped me starting out as my balance was a problem on that board with the deep vee. Now I plop in my SB Race 24 narrow dolphin or short SIC 7.0. Those fins free up the tail so the board can surf across waves without broaching. As my balance and technique slowly improved - my fin choice evolved to smaller and smaller. I now use a large tracking fin as a learning tool. Very hard to DW -> which forces you to improve your technique to stay dry. Trick is to always stay ahead of the waves. So kinda gone full circle.
"The fin makes a huge difference and it makes me wonder why the Bark Dominator didn’t come with that fin in the first place."
https://www.supgladiator.com/racefins/
http://www.paddlesurfnorthwest.com/2012/01/race-fins.html
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Thanks for the review, Board Stiff. (And sorry guys for hacking the JLR thread)
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How about the Search? Did anybody ride it ? Or at least seen it?
The Search 14 is not a downwind board. It's incredibly slow for a 14 footer and sticks to the water like glue. Paddling against a 6 inch chop will almost stop it in it's tracks. Like Board Stiff said, it's a bitch to turn while paddling.
The Search 14 is a very stable board for someone who isn't in a hurry. It's a flatwater board best suited for small lakes and protected coves. Upwind and/or sidewind situations should be avoided because the board doesn't deal with chop well and you might not make it back to where you launched.
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Reviving another older thread because an earlier question was never really answered on the rail in the surf.
Has anyone been able to compare the M-14 and the Rail in the Surf? Seems like the Rail is a better flatwater/touring board and downwinder in moderate conditions (Not massive waves) Flatter rocker, easiest glide.
Seems these are back in stock at JL and trying to decide between the Rail and M-14 in the 28 width. Use would be touring in some chop. (I bought a cheap displacement hull board and its a nightmare in chop) with some ankle to knee waves and light upwind/downwind.
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I would like to hear more about surfing the Rail as well. It's such a nice looking shape. I would go with the 28" also.
Interesting that the nose is Vee to double concave similar to the TC Outer Reef.
$1200 + $150 shipping is very tempting. I wish I could afford another board.
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Some Rail 28" pics I took
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Super helpful Burchas! Thanks for the pictures.
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It's a very capable board and it will handle everything you mentioned.
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nice board indeed and almost bought a rail for dw/surf but I get the feeling the M14 surf's better and the rail is faster.