Standup Zone Forum

Stand Up Paddle => Wind Powered => Topic started by: surf4food on October 30, 2016, 07:42:48 AM

Title: The invention of windsurfing
Post by: surf4food on October 30, 2016, 07:42:48 AM
This may have been posted before, but anyway here it is:

https://vimeo.com/17668545
Title: Re: The invention of windsurfing
Post by: surfcowboy on October 30, 2016, 09:28:30 AM
Great piece. I missed all that history so it was good to catch up a bit. I still need to learn to sail. Maybe I need to mount a mast and go flail a bit.
Title: Re: The invention of windsurfing
Post by: Subber on October 30, 2016, 09:30:02 AM
Thanks for posting.
Really enjoyed watching it!
Title: Re: The invention of windsurfing
Post by: yugi on October 30, 2016, 09:59:04 AM
I remember those first footstraped boards with giant square tails. And twin fins.

After all extremes things came back to pretty sleek and simple.

I'm watching these Starby concaves with interest ... been there done that windsurfing
Title: Re: The invention of windsurfing
Post by: yugi on October 30, 2016, 10:00:27 AM
sorry, I forgot to add... Mmmmmm... Jenna

Turns out she's the friend of a friend. Small world. Getting smaller.
Title: Re: The invention of windsurfing
Post by: DavidJohn on October 30, 2016, 11:19:45 AM
Excellent vid..  8)
Title: Re: The invention of windsurfing
Post by: Area 10 on October 30, 2016, 11:22:06 AM
This may have been posted before, but anyway here it is:

https://vimeo.com/17668545
This might be the history of windsurfing in Hawaii, but it is not the story of the invention of windsurfing. Windsurfing was first invented at my (then) home town of Hayling Island, UK, by Peter Chilvers in the 1950s, and this fact has been upheld several times in court.

Here is Peter himself talking about the occasionally comical attempts to erase him from history (as the video above seems to attempt to do):

https://youtu.be/CQZLKGZ6vgk
Title: Re: The invention of windsurfing
Post by: SUPcheat on October 30, 2016, 11:46:13 AM
Nice slice of history.

When I finished my oral surgery residency in New Orleans, and came back to California, my first job was in Long Beach.

My employer had a home in Naples harbor, and he had a windsurfer.  I was 30, it was around 1980. 

I was in poor physical condition after the bone grinding residency, but was kind of intrigued by the windsurfer.  He told me I could use it any time I wanted.

I think he sadistically let me try to take it out once, but it was a disaster, I couldn't balance and didn't know ass from elbow, as expected.  I think my boss enjoyed my dishabille.  It wasn't too different from my neighbor shaming me the first time I floundered on SUP in the Santa Cruz Harbor.

The job was 60 to 70 hours a week for the year I worked there, so I never tried it again, just too tired and used my time off to lounge.  My only exercise was swimming for 40 minutes at lunch at the public pool by the offfice.
Title: Re: The invention of windsurfing
Post by: Subber on October 30, 2016, 02:26:08 PM
This may have been posted before, but anyway here it is:

https://vimeo.com/17668545
This might be the history of windsurfing in Hawaii, but it is not the story of the invention of windsurfing. Windsurfing was first invented at my (then) home town of Hayling Island, UK, by Peter Chilvers in the 1950s, and this fact has been upheld several times in court.

Here is Peter himself talking about the occasionally comical attempts to erase him from history (as the video above seems to attempt to do):

https://youtu.be/CQZLKGZ6vgk

Oh, "the rest of the story"....rather the beginning of the story.
Thanks for posting - very interesting.

I'm not one for patent protection.

I'm remembering that windsurfing had been around a while before it took off.
Title: Re: The invention of windsurfing
Post by: PonoBill on October 30, 2016, 07:42:10 PM
Very cool. I lived all of that, from the wobbly days (for me at the bay of Pigs, Naples and Belmont Shores, CA.) to the early Gorge days when there were usually five people out. When I moved to Hood River a few years ago there were so many people I knew the faces of, but never knew the names, because I was here after work in portland until dark or until the wind totally died. I bought my place in Manzanita to wavesail and beach sail. Good days, good times.
Title: Re: The invention of windsurfing
Post by: Beasho on October 30, 2016, 09:00:09 PM
I experienced my first glide at Tony Gilchrist's house on Cayuga lake in upstate NY.  I was 15 years old on a windsurfer one.  No lessons, 8 mph of wind, he said go and do this.  I am not sure how I made it back but I remember when I began moving at an unnaturally fast speed and I was hooked.

I went to Cornell and one day 'Dave' the owner of the local windsurf shop said "It's blowing Five Oh and Maui is doing barrel rolls."

I said "Maui, Maui who????"

It was Maui Meyer.  He eventually became the coach of the Cornell windsurfing team.  There were 3 of us on the team.  The only other team was the Naval Academy.  But we never had a meet.

Fast forward 10 years and I get an internship during business school from Booze Allen in San Francisco.  My roommate and I would windsurf every weekend, on Saturday and Sunday.  Twice a day if we could. 

After business school it was my objective to move to the wind and the bay area.  17 years later I have hung up my booms for a paddle. 

I owe everything I have to the wind.  Then again my balance sheet would be larger, my water-man status smaller, if I never knew what a camber inducer, phazer, bonzer, Mistral Hookipa, Gaastra, Logosz, planing tack, forward loop, or tendon uni-joint ever was  ::)

The following are a few shots and video from the era.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbdQWy9ZShA


Title: Re: The invention of windsurfing
Post by: PonoBill on October 30, 2016, 09:47:33 PM
Cool. Maui lives here in Hood River. He's a good friend and advisor, We bought our house through him (he's a realtor as well as a restauranteur, developer, etc..) and my shop and the property around it, and I've financed part of one of his low income housing projects. Good man as well as a talented athlete. Mostly kitesurfs these days, when he manages time off to get on the water.  I go to him for advice frequently.

Tony Logosz is here too of course. these days he's making foils for windsurfers and a lot of interesting downwind boards.
Title: Re: The invention of windsurfing
Post by: DavidJohn on October 30, 2016, 09:51:53 PM
I also knew Maui Meyer and bought a few boards off him.. Anyone know what happened to Richard White..
Title: Re: The invention of windsurfing
Post by: Off-Shore on October 31, 2016, 06:14:19 AM
Great vid. I also lived through the 80s and 90s of this in the UK. This was the first windsurfer I tried in a lake in Wales of all places in '82. It's funny looking back and remembering those triangular baggy sails. My buddy and I both shaped and built our own short boards in '83, but there were no short board specific sails or booms available in the UK at the time so we just used our triangular sails with booms almost as long as the masts on them. Made for interesting water starting and crazy out of control catapult falls.. And then suddenly everything changed in '84 and we were able to buy proper rigs with battened and shaped sails.
Title: Re: The invention of windsurfing
Post by: Off-Shore on October 31, 2016, 06:17:43 AM
A closer shot of the guy behind.. Notice the streamer thing on the top of the mast.. WTF was that for?
Title: Re: The invention of windsurfing
Post by: yugi on October 31, 2016, 06:48:43 AM
^ wind indicators. Quickly became defunct as windsurfing became a high-wind sport only.

Looks like he’s on a Dufour and his big brother is going to be wondering where the sail of his Laser is.

Sailors always had a wind indicator at the top of the mast so it flowed over into windsurfing. Come to think of it it's also a long time since I've seen on a dinghy!
Title: Re: The invention of windsurfing
Post by: Beasho on October 31, 2016, 06:53:50 AM
A closer shot of the guy behind.. Notice the streamer thing on the top of the mast.. WTF was that for?

The streamer, always fluorescent & usually pink, was there just because . . . because it was cool! 
Title: Re: The invention of windsurfing
Post by: J-Bird on October 31, 2016, 07:20:12 AM
Also called a tell-tail (or is it tell-tale?)
Title: Re: The invention of windsurfing
Post by: yugi on October 31, 2016, 07:24:48 AM
Streamers: yeah

Just like these guys thought they were cool too.

http://tinyurl.com/jcwozc6

For the record: I  skiped the fluo windsurf masthead streamer, the mustache, mullet and ski fartbag.

What were we saying about hull concaves and deck dugouts again?

Sorry Off-Shore, couldn't resist ! You asked for that one.
Title: Re: The invention of windsurfing
Post by: yugi on October 31, 2016, 07:27:38 AM
Also called a tell-tail (or is it tell-tale?)

tell-tales are more the 2 wooly or cassette tape strips (80's) in each of the sail sides.

Now the kids have endless supply of spinnaker cloth to cut up and use.

Last year I paddled around the world championships  Sailing Cats class C regattas. Meaning anything goes => wings, foils etc. They use tell-tales heavily in their wings. Which have about 8000 adjustments!
Title: Re: The invention of windsurfing
Post by: PonoBill on October 31, 2016, 08:39:19 AM
Streamers are supposed to show apparent wind, tell tales on either side of a sail window show proper sail trim. Still common on smaller sailboats, pointless on a batten-shaped or fabric-shaped sail.
Title: Re: The invention of windsurfing
Post by: yugi on October 31, 2016, 09:05:50 AM
^ true for windsurfers, but mainly because the feel is more important than the fine tuning and that it has become a high-wind only sport.

[sailing] Wings have tell tales all over the place! At least traditional sails flop.
Title: Re: The invention of windsurfing
Post by: Beasho on October 31, 2016, 10:56:28 AM
Enough on Streamers  >:( 

Back to the sartorial delight of the 80's and how it translated to the water.

Someone sent this postcard to my parents this summer.

I never saw so many windsurfers on any finger lake.  Now I am jealous I wasn't invited. 

PS: Windsurfing was terrible on the finger lakes.  We would sit around and watch the weather channel waiting for a jump above 15 mph.  Once every 2 weeks it would happen and it would last for 47 minutes.
Title: Re: The invention of windsurfing
Post by: yugi on October 31, 2016, 11:28:38 AM
Hmmm... I've heard something similar recently. Something about fastest growing something...
Title: Re: The invention of windsurfing
Post by: surf4food on October 31, 2016, 11:45:09 AM
This may have been posted before, but anyway here it is:

https://vimeo.com/17668545
This might be the history of windsurfing in Hawaii, but it is not the story of the invention of windsurfing. Windsurfing was first invented at my (then) home town of Hayling Island, UK, by Peter Chilvers in the 1950s, and this fact has been upheld several times in court.

Here is Peter himself talking about the occasionally comical attempts to erase him from history (as the video above seems to attempt to do):

https://youtu.be/CQZLKGZ6vgk

I think it shows how more than one person can come up with the very same or similar idea completely independent from the other.  Tom Blake (as the video showed) concocted a sailboard in the 30s but you lay prone rather than stand.  Newman Darby had his thing going on in 1948.  In kiteboarding should The Legaignoux brothers or Cory Roesele be credited as the inventors?  Both?  SUP you have John Pops Ah Choy who decided to use a paddle to surf with due to bad knees, but John Zapatocky was already surfing that way at least a good decade before that if not longer.  Did Pops know who Zap was at the time?  I know they became friends later on.  All these sports have an elusive past.
Title: Re: The invention of windsurfing
Post by: Area 10 on October 31, 2016, 12:32:04 PM
Sure. But it would have been gentlemanly to have mentioned Chilvers when talking about "the invention of windsurfing", since Schweitzer etc clearly knew about him since they had tried to sue him (and lost). To deliberately leave this detail out does not I think reflect well on them, or the accuracy of the video. Which is a shame because the footage is really great.

But I am sure I'll be pretty much alone in taking this view since I know that many of you here are connected to the people in the (first) video. However since I am connected to the person in the second video (albeit distantly: I grew up with his friends and saw them develop the sport) I'm sticking up for him. Someone has to, as he's received a pretty poor deal out of it over these years.
Title: Re: The invention of windsurfing
Post by: Dwight (DW) on October 31, 2016, 12:45:51 PM
Enough on Streamers  >:( 

Back to the sartorial delight of the 80's and how it translated to the water.

Someone sent this postcard to my parents this summer.

I never saw so many windsurfers on any finger lake.  Now I am jealous I wasn't invited. 

PS: Windsurfing was terrible on the finger lakes.  We would sit around and watch the weather channel waiting for a jump above 15 mph.  Once every 2 weeks it would happen and it would last for 47 minutes.

Were you there when Jeremy had the windsurf shop at Myers Point? Did you know Michelle, the hottie who did nude modeling at Cornell?  Trying to figure out if Jacky and I were sailing the Finger Lakes at the same time. 1980-1985 then we moved to NC for more wind. Michelle moved to Hawaii. Jeremy moved to the Gorge.
Title: Re: The invention of windsurfing
Post by: starman on October 31, 2016, 01:20:34 PM
Area 10, arguments about the patent disputes aside, there should be no doubt that windsurfing exists today because of Hoyle Schweitzer and Jim Drake. Further more, Hoyle and Diane Schweitzer deserve all the credit for it becoming a worldwide success. Chilvers deserves no mention as he did nothing to contribute to the sports growth from garage prototype to the sailing version of an F1 car.
Title: Re: The invention of windsurfing
Post by: PonoBill on October 31, 2016, 01:32:55 PM
^^And the gauntlet gets tossed.

Doesn't matter much, it's not just history, it's relatively meaningless in terms of where the sport IS, which is shockingly diminished from it's  90's craziness. A cautionary tale of hockey-stick growth and the pursuit of performance over usefulness.  I used my sailboard plus a cheap liferaft as a cruiser sailboat for a month in the San Juans. That wouldn't occur to most windsurfers today--because it's windsurfing, not sailing.

I sailed the 12'6" I gave to Bob (Stoneaxe) quite a bit in the great lakes (Road America and other tracks) and finger lakes (Watkins Glen).  Great fun, though the sail I used mostly was a 9.0, and the technique was classic sit-up-and-beg with a lot of sail pumping to get back to shore. The exception was during a microburst storm in Chicago where my 4.5 was much too much, and getting back to shore was more a matter of luck than good management. Did a two-mile walk of shame and was very happy to do it.  Land, precious land.
Title: Re: The invention of windsurfing
Post by: Beasho on October 31, 2016, 02:20:00 PM
I think it shows how more than one person can come up with the very same or similar idea completely independent from the other.  Tom Blake (as the video showed) concocted a sailboard in the 30s but you lay prone rather than stand.  Newman Darby had his thing going on in 1948. In kiteboarding should The Legaignoux brothers or Cory Roesele be credited as the inventors?  Both?
 
Nope!

Ben Franklin invented kite surfing. 

Go to the museum in Philadelphia and you will see this picture.  Kind of makes sense, apparently he did a lot with his kite.
Title: Re: The invention of windsurfing
Post by: Area 10 on October 31, 2016, 02:58:37 PM
Area 10, arguments about the patent disputes aside, there should be no doubt that windsurfing exists today because of Hoyle Schweitzer and Jim Drake. Further more, Hoyle and Diane Schweitzer deserve all the credit for it becoming a worldwide success. Chilvers deserves no mention as he did nothing to contribute to the sports growth from garage prototype to the sailing version of an F1 car.
Only someone from the US would see the growth of windsurfing as more significant than its invention.

But anyway, the video is called "the invention of windsurfing" not "the promotion of windsurfing". If it were called the latter, I'd have no argument with your position. But it isn't, and to create a video about the "invention of windsurfing" and not mention at least in passing, Chilvers, is charmless, and possibly inaccurate.

But at the end of the day you will no doubt support your countrymen no matter what. And I'll support mine. Same old same old.
Title: Re: The invention of windsurfing
Post by: Philn on November 02, 2016, 09:02:29 PM
Anyone know what happened to Richard White..

Kitesurfing on the north shore of Oahu.
Title: Re: The invention of windsurfing
Post by: DavidJohn on November 02, 2016, 10:01:32 PM
Anyone know what happened to Richard White..

Kitesurfing on the north shore of Oahu.

Thanks.. He was a good friend and last i heard he was back on the mainland..
Title: Re: The invention of windsurfing
Post by: surf4food on November 03, 2016, 06:45:19 PM
Area 10, arguments about the patent disputes aside, there should be no doubt that windsurfing exists today because of Hoyle Schweitzer and Jim Drake. Further more, Hoyle and Diane Schweitzer deserve all the credit for it becoming a worldwide success. Chilvers deserves no mention as he did nothing to contribute to the sports growth from garage prototype to the sailing version of an F1 car.
Only someone from the US would see the growth of windsurfing as more significant than its invention.

But anyway, the video is called "the invention of windsurfing" not "the promotion of windsurfing". If it were called the latter, I'd have no argument with your position. But it isn't, and to create a video about the "invention of windsurfing" and not mention at least in passing, Chilvers, is charmless, and possibly inaccurate.

But at the end of the day you will no doubt support your countrymen no matter what. And I'll support mine. Same old same old.

I don't know if that's a fair thing to say.  I never new anything about Chilvers before your post and now that I was made aware of him I too am surprised he is not mentioned in the clip.  Too bad him and Drake/Schweitzer couldn't collaborate. 
Title: Re: The invention of windsurfing
Post by: SUP Sports ® on March 23, 2017, 08:24:49 AM
Great stuff...fun days...always interesting to go back in the time machine and have a look around...;-)

As far as the "invention of windsurfing"...before Chilvers...Darby...Drake/Schweitzer/Parducci...there was Tom Blake on Oahu with his "sailing surfboard" in 1931...and, Riki Ebisu on Maui in 1941...etc...

I think Tom Blake's efforts pre-date Darby's by 30 years, and he invented the fin, hollow boards, water housings, and the modern surfing
lifestyle.

Here is an excerpt from the definitive Tom Blake biography: "TOM BLAKE: The Uncommon Journey of a Pioneer Waterman."
http://www.legendarysurfers.com/surf/legends/ls07_blake.shtml#skeg_1935

 From the Gary Lynch book:

 > In 1931, Tom Blake went on to invent the sailboard. "Actually," Gary  corrected me, "1931 was the start of the invention of the sailboard. That
 > was gradual. Tom used an umbrella at first, then a crude sail and so on until a first version of the first complete 'sailing surfboard', as he
 > called it, was up and running and even in competition by 1935. 1940 was the first production models by L.A. Ladder."
 > The year 1931 also saw Blake's first production surfboard, manufactured by Thomas Rogers Company, Venice, California. The 1931 hollow board now featured transverse
 > bracing.
 >
 > Around 1934-35, the Robert Mitchell Company Tom Blake boards featured the "Tom Blake Approved" logo. Later on, the 1940 version of the "Hawaiian Hollow Surfboard,"
 > U.S. Patent Number 1872230, was manufactured by the Los Angeles Ladder Company,
 > This model also was "Tom Blake Approved."
 >
 > Hollow boards, camera housings and sailboards were soon overshadowed by Tom's
 > application of fin to surfboard. One of his most enduring contributions the surfboard
 > skeg -- or "fin," - eventually caused a quantum shift in surfboard riding and development.


 From the Tom Blake autobiography by Gary Lynch:
http://www.legendarysurfers.com/surf/legends/ls07_blake.shtml#skeg_1935
http://library.thinkquest.org/2804/windlink.html
http://sport.iafrica.com/extreme/activities/192264.htm

> The modern sport of windsurfing can be traced back to the 1930s when a surfer named Tom Blake, whose arms became particularly tired one afternoon from paddling his board out to
> catch the waves, thought he  should be able to use the wind for propulsion.
> After some experimentation, he added a mast and sail to his surfboard. Later, he added a foot-controlled rudder and called his invention "a sailing surfboard".
> Blake's invention, however, was not widely received and it was another 30 years before S. Newman Darby took the idea a step further.
>
> Darby invented a rectangular sailboard to which he solidly attached a mast and sail. Steering was accomplished by moving a horizontal lever attached to both sides of the sail. Darby's
> invention was published in "Popular Science" magazine in 1965.
>
> Today's boardsailing or windsurfing is the product of a new sailing idea developed by three Californian surfing enthusiasts named Hoyle Schweitzer, Jim Drake and Allen Parducci in 1966 > and 1967. Their invention, initially called a 'Baja Board', consisted of a free-sail system that allowed the mast, boom and sail assembly to move in all directions around a universal
> joint.
>
> In 1969, Hoyle Schweitzer started a business which he called Windsurfer.

http://www.originalwindsurfer.com/site/main_1967.html
SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2024, SimplePortal