Standup Zone Forum
Stand Up Paddle => Gear Talk => Topic started by: 10generation on August 07, 2016, 10:21:03 PM
-
Just stumbled on a great deal for a red 12'6" for my boat, time to shop for my hardboard.
200 lbs, 5'10", intermediate paddler.
Looking for a hardboard for ocean paddling. Want to train to do a relay segment of the rock to rock (Catalina to San pedro here in LA), and maybe one day, the whole thing.
Stability in side chop, ocean swells, and speed.
Been looking at SIC wide glide and Amundsen TRT. Other option would be to look at having something built custom, if that could get me a meaningful difference beyond the factory boards.
To be clear, I'm not looking to place in any race, I want to be able to paddle long distances on the ocean with as much ease as my wallet can give me :-).
Thanks for any advice.
10gen
-
I’d try a Bullet first. I wouldn’t expect it to be too hard for you. They are stable boards and great for all-round and distance paddling in all conditions. Far stabler than a redPaddle 12’6 x28. Only if you can’t manage that should you look for wider. A wide board ultimately won’t be fun for distance as your paddle stroke will need to be so offset by the width.
-
I'm sure the SIC f14 Wide would do what you want. I;m only 5'6" and have no problem with paddle stoke on it, can almost do too many stokes per side. If it's truly 30" wide its for only couple inches before it narrows dow.
I'd be interested in seeing if someone has experience on the TRT in ocean conditions and if it handles it.
-
Are you looking at a 12'6" board or a 14'?
-
I'm sure the SIC f14 Wide would do what you want. I;m only 5'6" and have no problem with paddle stoke on it, can almost do too many stokes per side. If it's truly 30" wide its for only couple inches before it narrows dow.
...
as compared to what?
I'd be surprised if, at 5'6, you had progressed to narrower and would still say that for distance paddling.
-
Out of the 2 boards -> for long distance in the ocean would go for the TRT for more efficiency. But for DW the SIC would be much better. Both boards paddle very nice and 30 wide is ok. If you can balance on a narrower board for your uses - then you open up many more options. We have 5 boards ranging in widths from 30 to 23 - and all are perfect when used in appropriate conditions. Every board has its very own specific power zone and problem area.
-
http://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php?topic=25245.0
This topic was raised on the zone before.
I have only been on the TRT in swell/waves that was 2 to 3 feet on a lake for a couple hours. I went upwind, downwind, and in side chop/swell to get a feel for the board. Haven't tried the SIC yet, but it being a true planing board with a DW pedigree, it would/should be better in side swell, DW, and out right sloppy conditions, and the TRT should be a bit better on the flats and upwind. With that said, the TRT was remarkably stable and very easy in 2 to 3 foot swell and the conditions I had it out in weren't enough to challenge the limits of the board in open water. I think you could have it out in conditions that are a couple feet bigger than what I did and still feel confident. I have a Naish Glide 14 x 29 and the TRT felt every bit as stable in the same conditions (2 to 3 feet). The Glide would/should probably win out in larger quartering swell and bigger DW conditions overall, but the TRT feels ok for sure. The Glide is another price point board you may want to consider.
-
The F14 is a dog padding upwind or into chop. Great board otherwise.
-
I've never tried a wide glide--never seen one. The standard downwind board in the Gorge is the Bullet 14 V2 in SCC construction usually. I'm not sure why anyone would need a wider board (27.5"), it's as stable as a dock, even with my 240 pounds and geezer balance. As I mentioned in an earlier post, these boards are so common here that I see one or two on a car every day. Big Winds has four in their rental fleet.
I've tried the TRT and TRX Amundsens--both fine boards, but again, the TRX was more than stable enough, I couldn't see the value of the extra width.
I don't say this kind of thing lightly. Unless you have some special balance challenges or are more than 250 pounds I think you'll wish you went for more performance pretty quickly. You might fall off a few times in the first week, but then you'd wonder what the fuss was about. The only way I'd consider a 14 foot board that wide would be for touring with gear.
-
One of our paddle buddies here has a Wide Glide and he bought this after trying my Bullet 14v1 TWC which he found too tippy and kept on falling off in our offshore swell and wind conditions. I agree with Pono that perhaps had he persevered on it he would have cracked it but he decided that he'd rather have something he felt confident on and spent less time in the water so went ahead with it. He smokes me on it too, although I can keep up on my F16. He's strong, fit and 190. So if you're willing to having a learning curve go with the Bullet. I find the Wide Glide.... well..... WIDE and sluggish compared to my Bullet.
-
I took an Amundson TR on the Cape Cod Bay Challenge last year, which was about as close to open ocean as you can get without actually being there. The swells were constant, up to shoulder high from the left. We were all getting knocked around a lot. Everyone was falling. I think the wider boards with the lower volume noses like mine had advantages and disadvantages. When the chop was small, they were great. The sharp nose would cleave through the waves. The smaller side chop wasn't a huge deal. When conditions got worse, I felt like I was on the wrong board. Some of the paddlers on boards like the Starboard All Star, which has a lot of flotation in the nose, were doing better. Of course, we were all getting our asses kicked, but I could see how the board shape was making a difference for some people.
The same thing was happening with the front chop. When we were approaching Wellfleet, the waves were right in our faces. The higher volume boards were going over the waves, but mine was often going through. This might not have been so bad, except that the waves were slamming into my board bag, which was stopping me.
I wasn't on the exact models you're describing, but have paddled that TR for a few years, my feeling is that it's a good light chop board, but not when the waves get heavier. I mostly get light, short-period chop on the Hudson River, so it's fine for those conditions. Also, I would strongly consider replacing the stock fin with something better, like an Allison Hybrid. It made a difference of about two strokes per side.
-
I should add that my board is a 12'6", not a 14'.
-
^ The TRT has a different rocker line than the old TR you are paddling and it is more stable in all conditions. Different board, but it does pierce through waves and I stepped back a bit to help with this. The Amundson 14 TRX and TR have been redesigned. The original 14 TR-X (2012-2013)was very well received for rough water and down wind paddling and the newer models continue to get high praise for their versatility in all conditions.
Ponobill brings up a great point in the sheer size of the boards the OP is looking into and I was originally considering the TRT as a touring board that I could pack gear on. The Wide Glide is a very big board too. Both would be good for long distance paddling but better options are available for performance while still getting a stable board at a narrower width. The Bullet and TRX 14 are good suggestions. Always a compromise though. The TRX 14 is very stable for it's width and I included a video done by big winds and Amundson describing the TRX. Skip past the two minute mark.
https://vimeo.com/161210243
-
Actually tried the TRT and TR on a demo day recently and found them to be pretty good. Interestingly they have a more damped feel than other boards. With the inclusion of "About a 1/2" concave on the bottom with flat rail panels out on the rails" the board feels better. And is somewhat in line with the SB AS triple concave design. We have boards ranging in width from 23 to 30 and they all paddle fine. A bit slower on flat with a pin tail - but not much. For rough water in the ocean a 30 is much more comfortable than a 23 - and way faster and way more fun.
When we DW up Squamish way - some paddlers ride the F14 and love that board. It affords them a lot more stability than the Bullet 14 and 14V2. The F14 is a very good DW board for rough conditions. And we would get one - but have too many boards as is. :)
-
I prefer a pointy nose, "a la" Bullet, JL M14, JL Rail, Rogue DW, for busting through steep stuff: up, down or side. I've tried displacement , boof , even duckbilled (Naish Maliko) noses ... I definitely prefer pointy for the messy stuff.
I'm really not getting the overtly wide thing. It's has been. Then again I travel light and I'm the kind of guy that doesn't understand picnic tables for picnics either.
The whole downwind board thing is a very predictable (in French one says "healthy") kind of roll. More hammock kind of swing than the race board treetrunck roll. Basically something you tune into quickly. Anything with a displacement nose is liable to play tricks when the nose pokes.
I think there's a reason the wide boards aren't being seen in festive areas. What pono said.
-
I took an Amundson TR on the Cape Cod Bay Challenge last year, which was about as close to open ocean as you can get without actually being there. The swells were constant, up to shoulder high from the left. We were all getting knocked around a lot. Everyone was falling. I think the wider boards with the lower volume noses like mine had advantages and disadvantages. When the chop was small, they were great. The sharp nose would cleave through the waves. The smaller side chop wasn't a huge deal. When conditions got worse, I felt like I was on the wrong board. Some of the paddlers on boards like the Starboard All Star, which has a lot of flotation in the nose, were doing better. Of course, we were all getting our asses kicked, but I could see how the board shape was making a difference for some people.
The same thing was happening with the front chop. When we were approaching Wellfleet, the waves were right in our faces. The higher volume boards were going over the waves, but mine was often going through. This might not have been so bad, except that the waves were slamming into my board bag, which was stopping me.
I was on the F14 for that paddle, and was doing better in the mess in the middle of the bay, than the last few miles straight into the chop in the harbor. For me the F14 is a pig into the chop, the nose just slams against it and bogs down. Might be better with larger cleaner waves where it can ride over. I ended up getting a Bark Eliminator (because I'm 250lbs) with a pointy nose that pierces the typical chop we get around here. Not sure if the Eliminator would have been as stable as the F14 out in the mid Bay washing machine, but it does cut through the chop a lot better.
-
Thanks very much guys.
I'm looking for a 14' board.
My red is a used one that is 30", I'm open to a TRX or bullet, but don't want to be worrying about stability.
Sounds like the Amundsen might be a bit more versatile than the wide glide across varying conditions.
Thanks again.
-
Thanks very much guys.
I'm looking for a 14' board.
My red is a used one that is 30", I'm open to a TRX or bullet, but don't want to be worrying about stability.
Sounds like the Amundsen might be a bit more versatile than the wide glide across varying conditions.
Thanks again.
The TRT is wider and more stable than the TRX or Bullet. And either Amundsen is better on flat and upwind vs the F14. If you can try these boards on the water -> you will notice the balance and efficiency differences immediately. I personally like the TRX better than the TRT. But the TRT is a very nice board nonetheless for more stability and heavier paddlers. Really just depends what works best for you.
-
Really the TRX is one rocking board. The TRT will get old fast unless you're hauling cargo. Same with the F14. The wide boards are for the first five weeks of your sup experience. Life goes on. Do you really want to buy a board for when you sucked at this??
-
Hey Bill, I respect your opinion, but isn't that a little harsh for a board you haven't even seen, let alone paddled?
I have an SIC F14, and I really like it. No, I don't race. Yes, there are faster boards out there. But I paddle a lot on a windy, cold lake, and have done more downwinders there than I can remember. I can paddle it into the bumps and glide, and have a hell of a lot of fun on it. I like being able move around on the board, and I like the stability. I don't come from a surf background, but I can confidently move back and forward on the board, and I'm working on cross stepping on it. I know that for me, if I were on a less stable board, I wouldn't be able to move as much, and probably be locked into one stance, like when I'm on my tippy M&M 14.
I picked the F14 a couple years ago after having a really miserable experience in the ocean on a Naish Glide 14. Between the swell and the reflected cross chop, I couldn't stay up on it. I switched boards with someone else, and then paddled away with no problem at all. So I really believe the board design makes a huge difference. And maybe that makes me balance challenged, but whatever. For me it's all about having fun, I don't need to be the first to finish.
-
Huh? I love F14s. I just wouldn't get the wide one--that's the only one I haven't seen. I've been on dozens of F14s, including super-skinny customs. Which one do you have?
I hadn't heard of the F14 wide glide before this thread. I'm familiar with the V1--which was 27.25 wide but had a little more volume than the V2, wider tail, thicker. Then the V2, which is 27.5" wide, but has a thinned out nose and tail and a little less rocker, and the V3 which is 26.75" and thinned out everywhere.
I find the standard V2 F14--which are like belly buttons here in the gorge-- and the old V1, which was always just called the F14, to be super stable and easy to ride. My only reservation is in recommending an excessively wide board to someone who is stepping up in performance but whose weight and height would indicate a higher performance board might be more satisfactory over the longer term. I figure if a 6'2", 240-pound geezer with balance issues is comfortable on a board, a lighter, shorter, and probably younger guy should be fine in no time.