Standup Zone Forum

Stand Up Paddle => SUP Safety => Topic started by: ZombieOTTR on August 01, 2016, 05:07:25 AM

Title: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.
Post by: ZombieOTTR on August 01, 2016, 05:07:25 AM
http://m.wmur.com/news/drowning-investigated-in-weare/40965196

2 paddleboarders drowned over the weekend in Weare, NH. Both did not have a life jacket.
Title: Re: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.
Post by: Ichabod Spoonbill on August 01, 2016, 05:15:54 AM
Really sad. Beginners need to be wearing those PFDs!
Title: Re: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.
Post by: Night Wing on August 01, 2016, 06:19:29 AM
Besides not wearing life jackets, probably didn't have leashes attached to their legs either. At least with a leash, the woman (and man) once in the water could have swam to their boards which float. Unless of course, they couldn't swim or panic set in and panic overrides everything (judgement).

Where I live in Texas, a sup is considered a "vessel" by both the US Coast Guard and our own Texas Parks & Wildlife Department (TPWD) so there are rules. If one is on a sup paddling on a private lake and/or pond, a life jacket (PFD) is NOT required to be onboard or worn. But on any body of public water, a life jacket has to be on board or worn by the paddler.

A sup surfer (in Texas) is NOT required to have a life jacket on board or worn by the sup surfer as long as the sup surfer "is in the surf zone". But paddling out beyond the surf zone, then a life jacket is required to be onboard or worn. The sticky part of the rules is not thought out well since there is no mention what constitutes where the surf zone begins and ends. I've always gone by the surf zone is where the water begins to make a building wave coming towards the shore (beach).
Title: Re: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.
Post by: OUTSIDEWAVE on August 01, 2016, 09:04:12 AM
it is very sad and I am am shocked at how many people die in lakes that at first glance seem pretty calm. Or does the wind come up and play a part?
Title: Re: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.
Post by: Badger on August 01, 2016, 10:50:26 AM
Obviously the person wasn't wearing a leash or they wouldn't have had to look for the body.

Title: Re: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.
Post by: lucabrasi on August 01, 2016, 11:19:49 AM
it is very sad and I am am shocked at how many people die in lakes that at first glance seem pretty calm. Or does the wind come up and play a part?
yes, very sad. I am not sure about with them or where they were but around here it can come up and out of nowhere very quickly. Usually you have a clue with thunderstorms if you keep an eye on the sky but they also can sneak up on you very suddenly before you know it. You learn pretty quick to keep an eye on the sky with whatever you doing outside.
Title: Re: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.
Post by: Easy Rider on August 01, 2016, 12:01:36 PM
(http://www.theeasyrider.com/palladium/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/LeashesSaveLives.jpg)
Title: Re: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.
Post by: addapost on August 01, 2016, 12:06:57 PM
Horrible story. This is at least 6 deaths that I know of in the U.S. since summer started. I have no direct knowledge of what happened here but I will say it's not just about leashes, you would not believe how many people cannot pull themselves onto the board when they are in deep water. I teach lots of beginner lessons and when folks fall off the board they simply cannot get back on. There are multiple factors for this: overweight, lack of strength, lack of coordination, tired, cold, or combinations etc. If they are alone, no PFD, in deep water? Forget about it.
Title: Re: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.
Post by: 2Rivers on August 01, 2016, 12:16:39 PM
(http://www.theeasyrider.com/palladium/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/LeashesSaveLives.jpg)
This would be an AWESOME sticker! Any available?
Title: Re: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.
Post by: robon on August 01, 2016, 12:37:16 PM
Horrible story. This is at least 6 deaths that I know of in the U.S. since summer started. I have no direct knowledge of what happened here but I will say- you would not believe how many people cannot pull themselves onto the board when they are in deep water. I teach lots of beginner lessons and when folks fall off the board they simply cannot get back on. There are multiple factors for this: overweight, lack of strength, lack of coordination, tired, cold, or combinations etc. If they are alone, no PFD, in deep water? Forget about it.

I think it's pushing around 10 deaths in the US since May now. You bring up very valid points about people struggling to get back on their boards. I'm visiting relatives on the prairies in Alberta right now and was on a lake just outside of Calgary, and watched multiple people struggle greatly to get back on their boards in calm water. Some of these paddlers were young, fit males who were beginners and it would sometimes take them two, three times to get back on and stay on. So, imagine a situation with lots of wind, waves, and other variables you mention such as fitness, weight, cold water etc. Not good and it has happened this year on a mountain lake already.

I mentioned in another thread about leashes increasing survivability. Combine leashes and PFDs and your survivability goes up exponentially, and while leashes are very important, PFDs WILL save lives in many circumstances and buy time for rescue. So can leashes, but if you can't get back on your board, then you're in serious trouble. Especially in cold water when you lose muscle coordination quickly. A couple days ago on the lake I mentioned above, out of at least 20 paddlers on rental boards, I only remember one with a PFD, and I don't think a single paddler was wearing a leash. Insane that rental outfitters are allowing this to still happen. Sure, part of the responsibility should be on the paddler, but out on a body of water with high potential for strong wind and constant boat wakes, and almost no one is wearing PFDs or leashes?
Title: Re: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.
Post by: Kaihoe on August 01, 2016, 02:30:30 PM
it is very sad and I am am shocked at how many people die in lakes that at first glance seem pretty calm. Or does the wind come up and play a part?

I'm no expect on this but lakes can behave in really weird ways.  I know lake Windermere in England is notorious for having all sorts of crazy currents and undertows. My gran used to live there and we where always told not to swim in the lake it was that dangerous. 

 I suppose its all about appropriate knowledge and experience.  I can remember sitting on a beach in the UK (one of the few with surf) and a a mother telling here kids to swim in the rip because 'its calmer there'. 

 But as to the thread I think overall safety for beginners is a real challenge. They really need to be wearing PFDs and a leash
Title: Re: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.
Post by: PonoBill on August 01, 2016, 02:51:03 PM
I pulled a kiter into the beach on the columbia this weekend. As I've said before, I don't do that unless I see they are in distress. If they're wearing float or have their gear, then they need to rescue themselves. I won't go into the reasons, but I think it makes sense.

Anyway, she accidentally released her chicken strap. Her boyfriend collected all her gear, including her harness, and kited it to the event center, about a mile away. When I came on her she was swimming weakly in a full wetsuit. When she heard me coming (I whistle all the time) she rolled on her back and waved both hands. So I cut over to check on her. she asked for a lift to the beach. I moved to the front of my Bullet and said "climb on the back and kneel down". She tried about five times and couldn't get on the board. Young, decent shape, a little pudgy, but no physical reason. She just couldn't do it. I can get back on with stuff in the way--a PFD, slippahs shoved into my belt, camelback, whatever. But we don't realize what a practiced move that is until we see someone else flail at it.

I had her just pull part of her body onto the board, hold onto one of my paddle loops, and I towed her in. She claimed I saved her life. That she thought she could swim the 100 or so yards easily, but she couldn't. She was swimming against the current.

I told her "if that happens again, swim with the current for the nearest shore. Even if it's Wells Island, you can walk to the inside point, and then swim across the shallow water."

I might as well have been speaking swahili. I could pretty much tell she thought the right thing to do was stay in the middle and get rescued.
Title: Re: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.
Post by: Bean on August 02, 2016, 11:45:53 AM
Good save PB, hopefully the message will sink in. 

Hopelessly swimming against the current is an act of desperation that reminds me very much of those who get lost and whose last actions consist of shedding supplies and clothing including boots hats and gloves.  What a shitty feeling that must be.
Title: Re: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.
Post by: photofr on August 03, 2016, 12:37:27 AM
Leashes can be great, PFD could save lives, but without a doubt in my mind, people need to take their own responsibilities - and this starts with the basic needs:
If you can't swim 40 yards, you have no business being more than 40 yards from shore.
Before getting on a board, you must ensure that you know how to get back on your board.

Do we really want to hear a rental company say:
"I thought they could get back on their board".

I know, it sounds stupid, but humans have egos. Perhaps one way to reduce suicide-by-SUP is to enforce couple of things, and sadly LEASH and PFD is better than nothing, but they are not the first things people should learn.

Perhaps all that's needed are couple of tests before purchasing a SUP (or renting one) would suffice in reducing the majority of deaths on SUP.

Title: Re: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.
Post by: Gramps on August 03, 2016, 07:44:08 AM
Quote
Leashes can be great, PFD could save lives, but without a doubt in my mind, people need to take their own responsibilities - and this starts with the basic needs:
If you can't swim 40 yards, you have no business being more than 40 yards from shore.
Before getting on a board, you must ensure that you know how to get back on your board.

I've been at this for about 3 years and always wear a leash, carry a PFD, am a good swimmer and can get back on my board, but being 69 and often paddling alone, I always try to stay close to shore.  The water where I paddle is cold and the wind can come up quickly, so when I do cross open water I'm extra careful.  I've tried to convince those beginners that I've met to do the same, with limited success.  I don't want to drown or put a rescuer at risk because I was foolish. 

Title: Re: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.
Post by: Ichabod Spoonbill on August 03, 2016, 08:17:22 AM
It's hard to convince beginners that things can go badly wrong. The whole paddling thing seems so simple, so easy.
Title: Re: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.
Post by: photofr on August 03, 2016, 09:05:30 AM
It's hard to convince beginners that things can go badly wrong. The whole paddling thing seems so simple, so easy.

In the late 80's, SURFSKI paddlers didn't die at sea because they couldn't get back on their skis. Since there were no "easy" skis, since all skis were pretty much elite skis, you took two strokes and fell out of the ski. Sounds simple, and it was: you VERY quickly learned to get back on your ski - and got plenty of practice.

Today's stable surfski (since about 2011) has changed this: there are now surfski accidents that could have been very easily avoided. The same is true for SUP:

FIRST PROBLEM
There are people on very stable boards who never EVER practice getting on and off their boards in deep and cold water.

OTHER PROBLEMS
You can follow the law and have a PFD on the deck of your SUP, but what good will this do to the person having a heart attack?

The PFD, without a doubt, will help some people in many cases - just like:
A helmet worn while driving a car will help prevent head injuries in car crashes.

WHAT'S NEXT?
Will you pass a law stating that all car drivers and passengers should have a helmet?
Will you also pass a law to ensure that ever single surfer, SUP surfer, and long distance SUP paddler wears a PFD and a HELMET?

Plus, the whole PFD set out by the Coast Guard is a bit of a nonsense:
1- the requirement is to have it on board, not on you.
2- the minimum required by law is to have a type III PFD, which will NOT keep your head out of the water should you become unconscious.
3- you should try jumping off your board in cold water (with a type III vest in rough seas) and then come back and tell me how that really helped you.
4- people who are inconfortable in the water THINK they will be okay the second they done a type III vest.

That doesn't mean you shouldn't wear a PFD... it just means that we are back to square ONE:
Understand your limits.
Understand gear limitations.
Do not blindly copy the mass.
Take responsibilities and learn something that may save your life at sea.
Title: Re: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.
Post by: yugi on August 03, 2016, 09:37:37 AM
When looking at that lake you'd think you could toss a cookie across.

Most accidents of that nature seem to happen within "toss a cookie" distance from shore.

Title: Re: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.
Post by: yugi on August 03, 2016, 09:40:33 AM
It's hard to convince beginners that things can go badly wrong. The whole paddling thing seems so simple, so easy.



WHAT'S NEXT?
Will you pass a law stating that
 …

That law has already been passed. It’s called “Darwin’s Law”.

Sad but true.
Title: Re: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.
Post by: pdxmike on August 03, 2016, 12:48:27 PM
This sentence from the article stood out to me:

"It’s unclear what caused the woman to fall into the water."

That sounds silly to anyone here--of course falling in is part of standup.  But if the writer wrote it, that means some beginner paddlers (not necessarily these ones) must also believe it--that falling in isn't something you need to worry about. Combine that view with a dead calm lake, and you can imagine people feeling OK about going out on a board with no swimming ability at all.  In all the discussions about drowning and pfds, I don't remember this being discussed--that people may be going out with no swimming ability and no pfds because they don't believe there's a chance they'll fall in.
Title: Re: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.
Post by: Quickbeam on August 03, 2016, 01:01:04 PM
This sentence from the article stood out to me:

"It’s unclear what caused the woman to fall into the water."

That sounds silly to anyone here--of course falling in is part of standup.  But if the writer wrote it, that means some beginner paddlers (not necessarily these ones) must also believe it--that falling in isn't something you need to worry about. Combine that view with a dead calm lake, and you can imagine people feeling OK about going out on a board with no swimming ability at all.  In all the discussions about drowning and pfds, I don't remember this being discussed--that people may be going out with no swimming ability and no pfds because they don't believe there's a chance they'll fall in.



Yes, I think that’s probably part of it. Our sport just looks so easy. I mean if you rent a stable enough board, there’s nothing to it. Until of course, the wind comes up on the lake, or a boat goes by giving off a large wake. And then all of a sudden you’re in the water. And of course you’re not wearing the life jacket because you don’t have to - it only has to be on the board. So the life jackets on the board and board is floating away because you don’t have a leash on and all of a sudden you’re in serious trouble.
Title: Re: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.
Post by: Bean on August 03, 2016, 01:04:16 PM
...Plus, the whole PFD set out by the Coast Guard is a bit of a nonsense:
1- the requirement is to have it on board, not on you.


The CG PFD regs are clearly a compromise for boats of all sizes, but never contemplated SUPs.  It makes sense that adults don't need to have to wear their PFD's when they are on most boats since falling overboard is not expected.  This changes as boats get smaller however, and falling overboard while taking a leak is very common. 

Trouble is, if we lobby for specific rules for SUP we could get more than we bargained for.   
Title: Re: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.
Post by: Quickbeam on August 03, 2016, 01:46:57 PM
Trouble is, if we lobby for specific rules for SUP we could get more than we bargained for.


Yes, that’s the danger for sure.

I do think there needs to be better regulation, but not over regulation. A requirement that leases and PFD’s must be worn (maybe with an exemption for PFD’s when surfing) would be fine with me. Maybe also a requirement that rental companies provide PFD’s and leashes.
Title: Re: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.
Post by: Quickbeam on August 03, 2016, 01:52:00 PM
And just in thinking about this, if we don’t lobby for better regulations, it may get done anyway. With all the deaths happening, sooner or later someone is going to do something, and if we don’t get on top of it ourselves, we may very well not like what we get.

Title: Re: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.
Post by: photofr on August 03, 2016, 02:09:30 PM
Indeed, you have to be careful what you wish for.

Perhaps you want everyone to wear PFD while paddling their SUP, but they won’t – so you make them with a new law. Then you realize that there are still accidental deaths, so you make all stand up paddlers wear a helmet. When that doesn’t work and when people are still dying in winter, you make everyone wear a cold water survival suit (I don’t mean a thin wetsuit).

If you are not sure where this is going, I’ll give you a hint:
Think about an Outrigger Canoe paddler, wearing a super bulky Class I lifevest (not a PFD), forced to wear a helmet at all times, as well as a survival suit in Hawaiian waters… because officials will prove that no one can survive swimming for 30 hours without a survival suit.

Training is what is needed - not new laws
Title: Re: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.
Post by: Easy Rider on August 03, 2016, 02:23:59 PM
It is Education that is needed not Regulation.

The entire SUP industry needs to come together - and fast - on this issue or it will be regulated by others.   

Manufactures / Distributors / Retailers / Rental companies / Instructors / and the SUP media Industry (all of it) need to educate the general public not only as to the dangers of the sport - but also the most basic of safety measures. 

Swimming ability / Leashes / PFD's all need to be addressed. 

It is ease of entry into the sport that is causing the problems. 
People look and images on line and in print of healthy / fit people on glassy water / in sunny and warm conditions and think "how hard can it be?" 

As an eye opener - do a google image search of "Stand Up Paddle" 
Look at how few images show any sort of safety. 
Kinda scary.
Title: Re: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.
Post by: Quickbeam on August 03, 2016, 05:05:03 PM
It is Education that is needed not Regulation.

The entire SUP industry needs to come together - and fast - on this issue or it will be regulated by others.   

Manufactures / Distributors / Retailers / Rental companies / Instructors / and the SUP media Industry (all of it) need to educate the general public not only as to the dangers of the sport - but also the most basic of safety measures. 

Swimming ability / Leashes / PFD's all need to be addressed. 

It is ease of entry into the sport that is causing the problems. 
People look and images on line and in print of healthy / fit people on glassy water / in sunny and warm conditions and think "how hard can it be?" 

As an eye opener - do a google image search of "Stand Up Paddle" 
Look at how few images show any sort of safety. 
Kinda scary.


O.K., I agree. An excellent post and I agree with all your points.

However, if the education doesn’t happen then something else needs to, because there are just way too many people dying in our sport. It’s crazy the number of people that are dying in what should be a relatively safe sport. If people simply wore PFD’s and leashes I would hazard a guess that there wouldn’t be near the fatalities we are seeing now.

So I agree, let’s get on with the education, because if it doesn’t happen there will be regulation, and it will probably be more than we need or want. And if the education doesn’t happen, then how can you not support at least some kind of minimal regulation to save lives? I don’t want to wear helmets or be mandated to wear full immersion gear or anything like that, but again, if no education is forthcoming, I would support regulations for PFD’s (not in surf) and leashes.
Title: Re: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.
Post by: pdxmike on August 03, 2016, 05:37:05 PM
Yes, education comes first, and to me, swimming is key.  SUPs are like giant pool toys.  Pools don't allow toys you can float on because they allow people to go into deeper water in the pool than they can handle, then they fall off and drown.  The difference is the SUPs can float you out into places far worse than the deep end of a warm pool with a lifeguard. 

As others have said, things like swimming ability and common sense are the keys to safety, but they're not easy to give credit for in regulations.  I don't want to carry a paddler's license.

For regulations, I'd replace the "pfd on the vessel" with "wear either a leash or pfd".  Although I almost always wear an inflatable pfd, I'd object to being required to wear one.

Regulations alone won't do much.  Most people drowning now are already ignoring them, not even carrying a pfd.
Title: Re: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.
Post by: Quickbeam on August 05, 2016, 11:36:22 AM
From today's Distressed Mullet. Maybe something is starting to happen!






SUPIA, ACA and industry leaders talk abotu safety
We were pleased to be a part of a preliminary safety policy meeting spearheaded by the SUPIA (Stand Up Paddle Industry Association) and the ACA (American Canoe and Kayak Association) to discuss standardized best practices recommendations for paddlers, manufacturers, retailers and rental businesses. It was a very productive meeting and the beginning of a long but important process.

It was fantastic to see the SUPIA step up and drive this with the ACA, bringing experienced, passionate but rational experts together to discuss a roadmap toward reducing injuries and fatalities in our sport. I left the meeting feeling inspired and energized and felt we'll be able to move in a positive direction as a community and a sport.

While I can't give out all the details yet, I can say that there were three things that seemed universally accepted. The first is that a PFD attached to a board simply for compliance to national laws does very little to protect paddlers. Second, the original classification of SUPs as crafts was made too early to be able to foresee how the sport would grow and evolve and had they known where we'd be now, the regulations would be quite different. And finally, if we don't step up as an industry and a sport and find ways to keep our people safe, Coast Guard, State and Local agencies will.

I applaud the SUPIA and the ACA for taking this leadership role and look forward to accompanying them on this journey on the safety committee. It seems that each week we lose another paddler to drownings that for the most part, seem preventable by either wearing an appropriate leash, and/or wearing a lifejacket or flotation assisting device. The work we all do in the next few years will save hundreds if not thousands of future paddlers and help preserve all the things we love about this sport.

—John
Title: Re: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.
Post by: Easy Rider on August 05, 2016, 01:04:35 PM
^^^ Great to hear.  I guess almost a year worth of emails is finally making something happen.
Title: Re: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.
Post by: photofr on August 05, 2016, 01:54:25 PM
While we can't save everyone, most deaths can be saved my making sure that stand up paddlers wear a leash in all conditions. Education should also be at the top of the list.

PFDs and helmets are not, in my opinion, as important for ocean paddling as the above.

So if we are really concerned about people's safety, can someone please explain to me why it will take couple of years to implement something like education, or better yet: WEARING A LEASH!?

REF.: "the work we do in the next few years..."
Title: Re: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.
Post by: Quickbeam on August 05, 2016, 02:15:07 PM
^^^ Great to hear.  I guess almost a year worth of emails is finally making something happen.


Good for you Easy Rider! Also wanted to say I liked your video shown in the other thread. Will be most interested to see Part 2.
Title: Re: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.
Post by: SeldomScene on August 05, 2016, 07:45:11 PM
I'm all in on the leash thing.  However, folks need to be able to remount in all conditions.  That means practicing it, just as kayakers practice rolling and re-entries, and surf skiers practice remounts. From both sides, in all conditions.  If you're too weak or fat to climb back on, you shouldn't be out there.  Otherwise, you'll try til you're too tired then be floating helpless or dead leashed to your board.  When I kayaked, I practiced rolling year round, in the pool, lake and ocean.  In my surfski, I drop off then remount at the end of almost every paddle session.  Good cool down. 
Title: Re: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.
Post by: stoneaxe on August 05, 2016, 09:09:37 PM
I went out for a paddle last weekend in Onset harbor with my wife. There's a rental place nearby, lots of SUPs out. Nobody with leashes except us, PFD's on boards for the most part. It's a fairly placid harbor but has some currents and I've had afternoon winds kick up and make paddling tough. It was kind of shocking to see so many newbs, half with backward paddles. One guy on an old mistral windsurfer with a kayak paddle was paddling back to his place to get his PFD since the harbor master had told him he needed one.... he said he was paddling to the bar...... :o We saw him later with his PFD duck taped to the board on his way back. Same day we had seen this young guy out paddling all over the place, again PFD on the board. On our way back to the launch point the wind had kicked up....maybe 10-12 mph in our face. We're paddling up the beach and I see the guy fall in about 50yds in front of us....the board goes 10' away from him and he starts swimming after it......he doesn't swim as well as my 6 year old granddaughter and the board pulls away. He's lucky he was only in 5 ft of water and we were downwind....I stopped his board and guided it into the beach. Why would you not wear the PFD and paddle out in the middle of the harbor if you can't swim for shit?... ::). I told him that I'm a good swimmer, had paddled the board I was on 1,000's of miles, was wearing a PFD, and had on a leash.....I'm not sure he got my point..... :P
Title: Re: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.
Post by: PonoBill on August 05, 2016, 10:12:09 PM
50 percent of the people on the planet are dumber than a box of hammers. You can't fix stupid.
Title: Re: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.
Post by: pdxmike on August 06, 2016, 12:07:51 AM
And even the hammers know to use their heads.
Title: Re: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.
Post by: yugi on August 06, 2016, 03:06:14 AM


From today's Distressed Mullet. Maybe something is starting to happen!


I applaud the SUPIA and the ACA for taking this leadership role and look forward to accompanying them on this journey on the safety committee. It seems that each week we lose another paddler to drownings that for the most part, seem preventable by either wearing an appropriate leash, and/or wearing a lifejacket or flotation assisting device. The work we all do in the next few years will save hundreds if not thousands of future paddlers and help preserve all the things we love about this sport.

—John

Glad to see mention of flotation assisting devices, rather than full PFD.

One can certainly inform people better. Especially Re leash.

I’m with pono though, if they think they are going to save hundreds if not thousands of future paddlers they are setting everyone up for disappointment. I recommend they adjust their goal to better informing people, then let people save themselves. Or not.
Title: Re: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.
Post by: addapost on August 06, 2016, 04:41:45 AM
50 percent of the people on the planet are dumber than a box of hammers. You can't fix stupid.
And the bottom half of the upper half are not very impressive either.
Title: Re: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.
Post by: Quickbeam on August 06, 2016, 06:47:35 AM
And even the hammers know to use their heads.


Now that's funny!!
Title: Re: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.
Post by: Badger on August 06, 2016, 06:54:02 AM
And the other half avoids doing things that others might consider to be stupid. Therefore, their logical conclusion is that they themselves must be highly intelligent.
Title: Re: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.
Post by: SeldomScene on August 06, 2016, 08:57:40 AM
To quote a wise Native American friend, "half the people don't need help, the other half can't be helped."
Title: Re: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.
Post by: pdxmike on August 06, 2016, 01:13:51 PM
From today's Distressed Mullet. Maybe something is starting to happen!

SUPIA, ACA and industry leaders talk abotu safety
We were pleased to be a part of a preliminary safety policy meeting spearheaded by the SUPIA (Stand Up Paddle Industry Association) and the ACA (American Canoe and Kayak Association) to discuss standardized best practices recommendations for paddlers, manufacturers, retailers and rental businesses. It was a very productive meeting and the beginning of a long but important process.

It was fantastic to see the SUPIA step up and drive this with the ACA, bringing experienced, passionate but rational experts together to discuss a roadmap toward reducing injuries and fatalities in our sport. I left the meeting feeling inspired and energized and felt we'll be able to move in a positive direction as a community and a sport.

While I can't give out all the details yet, I can say that there were three things that seemed universally accepted. The first is that a PFD attached to a board simply for compliance to national laws does very little to protect paddlers. Second, the original classification of SUPs as crafts was made too early to be able to foresee how the sport would grow and evolve and had they known where we'd be now, the regulations would be quite different. And finally, if we don't step up as an industry and a sport and find ways to keep our people safe, Coast Guard, State and Local agencies will.

I applaud the SUPIA and the ACA for taking this leadership role and look forward to accompanying them on this journey on the safety committee. It seems that each week we lose another paddler to drownings that for the most part, seem preventable by either wearing an appropriate leash, and/or wearing a lifejacket or flotation assisting device. The work we all do in the next few years will save hundreds if not thousands of future paddlers and help preserve all the things we love about this sport.

—John
That sounds good, and I hope this goes in the right direction, which to me would be requiring wearing EITHER a pfd or leash.  But I don't trust the ACA.  Last year I asked the ACA about their views on PFD regulations. They didn't respond.  When I wrote again, they responded:

ACA
most certainly has a position of PFD wear on Stand Up Paddleboards – we recommend that SUP paddlers wear either an inherently buoyant of inflatable PFD at all times while SUPing, with the exception of the ocean surf zone.

I agree with that myself--as a RECOMMENDATION, not a law.  So I asked for what they thought the LAW should be, not what they recommend.  (And if fact their videos about leash and PFD wear have good, clear recommendations.)  I got this response from T.J. Turner, their Education & Outreach Coordinator:

The United States Coast Guard classifies a SUP as a personal watercraft and must be treated as such. The USCG has stated that an individual must have on the vessel or on their person a PFD to be in accord with the law, as well as a white light if operating 30 minutes before or after sunrise/set, and a sound signaling device (whistle). As for the ACA’s stance on the matter. We agree with the USCG.

Could there be any more bureaucratic, thoughtless position than that?  Turner went straight to the Coast Guard's stupid classification of SUPs, saying the ACA agreed with it, and then also supported having a PFD "on the vessel".  He also completely left leashes out of the answer.  Based on what the ACA told me, my guess is that unless the ACA will lobby for a requirement making WEARING a PFD mandatory, and will oppose any effort to allow leashes as an alternative.  I don't see the ACA understanding or caring about any arguments against mandatory wearing of PFDs, or in favor of leashes.

By the way, I should have then asked him, if the ACA agrees with the Coast Guard, then does that mean the ACA also supports the CG's requirement that unlimited SUPS carry flares or other signaling devices?  After all, they are vessels, and vessels over 16' (I believe) have those additional regulations.  If you believe the CG's rules are correct, you have to include those additional stupid rules.
Title: Re: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.
Post by: photofr on August 06, 2016, 02:57:54 PM
It is so unfortunate that people will pass more laws directly affecting everyone.

You can recommend wearing a bike helmet through education, and ultimately see lots of people wearing one. You can also recommend people wear a Leash and some sort of flotation devices, and ultimately see lots of people wearing quality leashes.

The problem is that if you let a law state that we must ALL wear a vest, you are not even close to solving real problems on the water. So, clearly, education is needed first, and then a list of recommended safety items can be brought forward as a recommendation. The alternative is that we will eventually be forced to wear:
Floatation aid
Leash
Helmet
Thick neoprene
Light
Flares
Horn
Life lines
Towing point up on bow and stern
Tow rope
Fire extinguisher

What's next?
Fire extinguishers for hikers in wilderness???

The days of a surfski or board under your arm, and a paddle in the other ARE JUST GONE - even if you train and can swim 8 km without thinking twice. This may turn out to be a slap across the face for many people, and all of this because we don't want to take the time to learn or educate others.


leashes.
Title: Re: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.
Post by: Eagle on August 06, 2016, 05:27:53 PM
http://m.wmur.com/news/drowning-investigated-in-weare/40965196

2 paddleboarders drowned over the weekend in Weare, NH. Both did not have a life jacket.

This seems to be the common problem over and over.  There already is a law to have a PFD - but some paddlers do not follow even that.  So adding more laws may not reduce drownings by much.  Some paddlers simply are not aware of the risks.  It seems in most cases - the paddler that drowned was not wearing a PFD or even had one strapped to their board. 

Education is the key.  Adding other safety devices like leashes etc should be optional the way it is.  Some paddlers have drowned because the leash has held the person underwater.  For us in the ocean -> we always wear a PFD -> and always use a leash.  Everyone we paddle with does.  Education and simply wear a PFD.  Also use a high quality leash and make sure your board to leash connection is good as well.
Title: Re: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.
Post by: photofr on August 06, 2016, 10:50:37 PM
The cool thing about education is that sometimes, you can "just ask a question" to your students:
- Scenario No. 5: It's a hot day (around 78 degrees), you are wearing shorts, you have a leash attached to your leg, and you have just paddled some 14 km. On the way home, you find couple of waves on an offshore reef and decide to surf one. You are still 500 meters from shore. Water temperature is about 55 degrees. YOU FALL IN, YOUR LEASH SNAPS.

What do you do?
(describe your actions, step by step)

In a classroom situation, it's always amazing to watch people's eyes and reaction. You can almost "see" them thinking and light up. So, if you are going to pass a single law, make it *Education.
Title: Re: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.
Post by: Bean on August 07, 2016, 03:55:33 AM
It depends.  What are the wind and current conditions? How far did the board go? How shallow is the reef?  The shoreline could even be a factor.

If the board is retrievable, but a long swim you will be better off leaving your paddle and swimming for your board.  If you throw it like a javelin out past the breakers it might still be there when you paddle back out.  Of course if you have a paddle loop on your shorts you're good to go. 
Title: Re: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.
Post by: photofr on August 07, 2016, 04:55:04 AM
I have watched students 100s of times when presented with different scenarios: the point is that it makes them think, it made you think about it, and it would make anyone start thinking.

Education is ... "start to think about it".

The law is... "its the law... and I won't think about it".
SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2024, SimplePortal