Standup Zone Forum
Stand Up Paddle => Technique => Topic started by: stoneaxe on January 19, 2009, 10:05:32 PM
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What techniques do some of you use to practice building up your stamina/lung capacity for those long hold downs? Its something I need to work on.
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me, too. it's my biggest fear. er ah well it's among my biggest fears. :-\
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If you practice holding your breath you can increase the time you can hold your breath. I did this in high school when I had a pool in the back yard. I don't think it prepared me for the major hold down but I could go over 3 minutes..
Breathing technique is important for endurance and control. In thru the nose and out thru the mouth helps get control over breathing, but when you are diving you need to take in as much as you can before you go under. So take a big breath of air before you go under, dive deep to both get away from your board and under the turbulence and when the furry has passed, break the water with your arms to clear the area you pop up so the board won't kiss you.
You are on your own when a 30 ft wall of water crashes down on you. Help is not there for you, so be careful. Some do the canon ball, others dive and some just go along for the ride. For some reason I never think that big is better. Of course I surf a beach break most the time and the conditions I describe these large swell will ruin your beach break as well. So I really don't think you have to worry Stoneax because you are probably ready for what your area has to offer. You can be hurt in small waves, but 8 ft and above is a whole different story.
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My cousin back home uses the expand a lung breathing gizmo for free diving. He wants me to try it for surfing. Seems to work for him. He has a bottom time of 2 minutes now and going longer. Here's the link to for it.
http://www.expand-a-lung.com/
I'll give it a try soon I guess. Hope this helps guys.
Aloha,
Sam
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Funny you should ask that...it's something I've been studying intently.
Those lung expanders work well, Sam, you can also just get a replacement SCUBA mouthpiece or pull one off a snorkel and breathe through it when you work out, especially good for aerobic exercise.
However, I've just come across a breathing technique that more than doubled my breath-holding in one day. I know that sounds ridiculous, but I'm headed for three minutes after struggling with one just before I found this. I did 2:43 yesterday.
You fill the bottom of your lungs first, by pressing out forcibly with your stomach as you start to take a breath then expand your lungs. It's a little hard to describe the full cycle, but you can practice it anywhere and you'll get the feeling--it's kind of a rolling breath and you push downwards with your diaphragm.
I'm writing an article on it for Ke Nalu, but the rest is just refinements. If you take four long breaths like that you're good to go. What it does is use your full lung capacity instead of just the top. Shallow breathing just moves air up and down your trachea, and leaves a lot of stagnant air in your lungs.
How this applies to surfing is that I'm practicing taking these kind of breaths all the time when I surf. And when a big wave is coming that I aim to take, or I'm caught inside, I breathe this way. I can tell you first hand that it works well. the last two days have been rough for hold downs. As I said yesterday, two evenings ago I got caught inside the channel at Kanaha and held down forever. I probably would have made it anyway, but this technique transformed it from a grim battle to an interesting if unpleasant experience.
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You are on your own when a 30 ft wall of water crashes down on you. Help is not there for you, so be careful.
I'll be fine in that....watching from the beach.... ;)
Last years double hold down scared the crap out of me and I've been trying to work on it a bit without a lot of success. I've managed a slight increase of about 20 secs duration but I'm going to start practicing all the time. Especially during exercise and while paddling.
Thanks for the responses all. That sounds particularly interesting Bill. I could definitely use something that jump starts a larger capacity. Get that article published soon. Important stuff if it works as well for everyone. It could be especially valuable in the type of situation I was faced with last year. The wave slamming me into the water blew all the air from my lungs....if I'd had more to start with it probably would have helped.
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Easiest thing in the world to try this technique, Bob. Hold your breath the old way and time it. then do four big breaths pushing out your stomach first, then your chest. Time that. You'll be shocked. When you first start to feel the urge to breathe lett a little air out--just a tiny bit.
Tell me how that works for you
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Bill- wow, that does make an immediate improvement. The Laird book has some passages/suggestions on this too. I like the one on practicing in everyday scenarios like running up a flight of stairs, etc. It would seem important not to do it all the time though, or you might find yourself holding your breath before you even go under.
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I should mention that every source I've read (dozens so far) say not to do these practices alone or in hazardous conditions since you can faint holding your breath. Obviously this is less important when you're sitting on the couch tahn with your face down in a pool, or even sitting in the Paia traffic jam. Not that I'd know anything about that.
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Wow!...very 1st time I went from 1:15 which had been my best to 1:45 and I was a LOT more comfortable doing it. That was sitting at rest....amazing difference though. Very cool! One of the keys to using this is to getting to the point where you use it without even thinking of it. This has to have important ramifications for performance too. Getting your O2 up to max and keeping it there.
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This is terrific stuff and very helpful. thanks, bill et al.
i have a few other wipeout related questions.
during a thrashing, how do you let your body react? i read somewhere that some people ball themselves up cannon-ball style; others just go as limp as possible. is there a consensus as to what's better or the better bet?
what do you do with your mind? i think i read that the best course of action is to think happy thoughts, envision peace and tranquility, the better to keep the panic from rising. usually the panic gets to me before the happy thoughts have a chance. maybe i ought to work on that.
i'm sure there's other tips and pointers that the experienced here can offer. feel free!
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There's this: http://www.kenalu.com/2008/08/25/caught-inside/ but it's a little light. Still working on the longer version. I have a lot of practice at being worked, one of the few things I consider myself an expert at. I've been practicing the diaphragm breathing thing even around the house, and I' do it pretty naturally now. When I decide to hold my breath without doing extra cleaning breaths I'm good for about 1:40 which is a good 40 seconds longer than when I started this. Who knows what the source of the improvement is, but I'll take it.
As far as what to do when you're hanging out with the bubbles, I relax and try to laugh at myself for getting there in the first place. For me a sense of humorous disgust is as close as I get to peace when I'm bouncing around. If I think of it I sometimes fumble around for the leash since it give you kind of a certainty of getting to the surface when you want to. Other times I put my paddle back over my head, which seems pretty helpful.
Other than that, don't fight what's going on. Just hang out.
Between practicing diaphragm breathing and cross stepping everywhere I have certainly become a more entertaining, if somewhat irritating companion to Diane, so there's that.
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Link those all together for a new dance- do the Pono!
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This is terrific stuff and very helpful. thanks, bill et al.
i have a few other wipeout related questions.
during a thrashing, how do you let your body react? i read somewhere that some people ball themselves up cannon-ball style; others just go as limp as possible. is there a consensus as to what's better or the better bet?
what do you do with your mind? i think i read that the best course of action is to think happy thoughts, envision peace and tranquility, the better to keep the panic from rising. usually the panic gets to me before the happy thoughts have a chance. maybe i ought to work on that.
i'm sure there's other tips and pointers that the experienced here can offer. feel free!
In heavy wipeout, in all seriousness you gotta stay calm. Honestly, the staying calm part begins far before you even wipe out. If you are paddling out to the lineup and while you're in the channel you see the bombs rolling through and you start paddling like mad for no reason and you're heart is racing, you probably shouldn't be out there. You're already panicking. However, if you're paddling out in the channel looking at the bombs pitching over and you feel calm, collected, and it all puts a smile on your face, you should be alright.
When I do go down after a closeout, unless I get totally rag-dolled, I personally straighten my body out and let the wave drag me feet first as long as the waves wants to. I feel that if I resist, I spend oxygen that I need.
Also, ever since I've decided to just go with the wave, leash breakage hasn't been an issue. Keep a good grip on the paddle and you can control your direction somewhat underwater. You gotta go with the energy of the wave. If you try to resist or to fight against it, wasted energy.
Also, since paddles float you also always know which way is up. Once things calm down, I get to the surface for another breath to try and avoid the possibility of a 2 wave hold-down. Also, when you come up, don't race to try and get your board if you don't have to. It's wasted energy because the next wave is going to take it from you anyway if it's a sizeable day.
You also need to be able to hold your breath and stay calm with water in your mouth and nose. For me, free diving in the summer helps a lot as well. Sometimes when you get slammed, if forces water up your nose and in your mouth. Free diving for me, taught me to be comfortable with that. The natural reaction is to blow it out but if you do, you just lost your air.
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I went for 3:15 today sitting on the couch, that's pretty darned close to what Harry Houdini could do. I haven't bought one of those lung expander thingies, but I dug out a spare scuba mouthpiece and put some tape on it. I use it when I'm doing the more aerobic sections of my workout--crunches, ball sit ups, and the yoga moves. Three sets of 90 crunches sucking though a scuba mouthpiece is the most grueling element of my workout.
On the downside, my lungs hurt a little bit all the time now. Not sure what that is. Sort of a burning sensation above my diaphragm on both sides. Maybe that's telling me its working, or maybe I'm going to get bursitis if I keep this up.
All this paddling, working out, surfing and bicycling and I haven't lost a pound. I may have to go for lipo or something. Or maybe i shouldn't sit around drinking beer and eating chips while I'm watching "Boston Legal" on blueRay. Nah, that can't be it.
What a great show that is by the way--I completely missed it, which is a good thing. Now I get to see it all without commercials. Bought the first season at Costco--total hoot. I never thought I'd love William Shatner and James Spader. Watching TV is a good time to practice breath control, both rolling breaths, nose-mouth breathing and breath-holding.
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3:15!...damn! I bet you haven't done that in a long time. Mom has told stories of you scaring the crap out of her when you were a kid....diving in at one spot and coming up a long long way off.
Sue watched Boston Legal all the time. She would be laughing her ass off so hard I'd have to close the door to my office. Then I started watching....those two make an odd couple but it definitely works.
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PonoBill - I'm digging that technique and I noticed an instant improvement! I agree with what Nate is saying too. Having the right mindset when you're out on a big day definitely helps if, or most likely when, you get caught.
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Nate. Your technique sounds a lot like what my friend Johnny Voxland from Maui told me. On really big days, like Sunset or Waimea he has this technique: allow yourself to get dragged feet first, face up towards the surface, arch the back and your leash will pull you up towards the surface.
Pono. I like the technique. I always would oxygenate with several deep breaths, but the pulling from the bottom really seems to make a big difference.
I do agree with Nate additionally, that to stay calm is the single most important element.
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Looks like we've got some cracking waves on the way this week. Cheeeya-hooo!
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On the subject of breath training, the more you relax the better, here is a bit of Gold Coast Magic. Easy to relax when this stuff is going on.
Jacko
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXWcS-2Cxtk&feature=channel_page
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Hi all, new member been sup'n about a year and digging it.
Have had some experience breath holding (freediving, etc...) so I hope whatever I share helps.
First, before breathhold training, google "Shallow Water Blackout" and study; it's knowledge is essential for waterfolk. SWB will kill the unwary, as it has already killed many experienced freedivers and surfers (it's assumed that SWB killed Jay Moriarity). Most training methods do not increase your inspirary lung volume, rather they train your system to ignore CO2 chemoreceptors that signal your "urge" to breath when holding breath. So breathholding underwater is an inherently dangerous undertaking, but can be done safely when understood.
For me, relaxing is most important element of breath holding and riding out hold-down's. But, to relax you need confidence and that comes from experience & training.
Breathhold training on couch is a good start, it builds confidence that you can hold breath longer than 2-minutes and if you pass out, well just keep the glass foot table far enough away so you don't brain yourself on the way down, and you'll wake up okay. Be a tough story to tell your pals how you got the gash on your head. While holding your breath, think about relaxing, slowing heart rate down, minimizing movement, in essence, going zen. That many high-end freedivers are into meditation/yoga/etc... is no coincidence; the better you can relax & control your physiology. One old crusty spearo told me he would "shut off" his hearing while diving just to save oxygen to that system...dunno if it worked but he could do multiple 2-minute working dives and go much longer when needed.
The next would be of course to breathhold in the element you're preparing for. Please, ALWAYS do this in tandem or more, NEVER alone. Freediving is a good start and spearing/bottom scratching by breath is a blast and fun to feed family/friends/neighbors with your catch. Great activity when it's flat. There's also other activities, like the infamous carrying weight while walking the bottom that was popularized by surfing media over last decade.
If your a confident breathholder, then time getting worked in waves builds confidence there. I'll usually dive for best penetration, but if i'm sucked over I'll instinctively fall into a fetal position w/arms covering head (defensive boxer position) and ride it out. No use wasting energy struggling to go nowhere. As stated earlier, first be relaxed in the size of waves your surfing. That of course isn't always realistic, you gotta grow someday but do it reasonably. Be comfortable getting worked in 3' waves before paddling into 6', and bigger. For the most part, in waves of reasonable size at a safe break I enjoy getting worked. I mean, what other activity in the world can you get ragdolled, then come up laughing? 'Course I'm not talking about getting sucked over Mav's for 2-wave holdowns, but getting worked is relatively safe with the right attitude & training.
Anyway, for what it's worth; many have likely different views that are probably better but this has worked for me. Great site here, lots of info I wish I had last year... Cheers -JC
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Great post JC, and lots of good information. I used to do a lot of freediving, but drifted out of it. Couple of years ago I got some good Cressi fins, a low volume mask, a good bluewater gun and a float. So far I haven't done all that much with it--poked a few Moi and some popio--one more thing to work on.