Standup Zone Forum

Stand Up Paddle => Gear Talk => Topic started by: Badger on April 09, 2016, 08:25:33 AM

Title: What's the best weed fin?
Post by: Badger on April 09, 2016, 08:25:33 AM
I need some ideas on a weed fin for my new Sunova Search 14'.

I had the JL Tracker on my M-14 and that worked well. Are there any other designs out there that I should consider?
Title: Re: What's the best weed fin?
Post by: Bean on April 09, 2016, 08:34:06 AM
Any fin with a good rake angle should do it, in addition to the usual suspects, take a look at peak at the BlackProject fins.  (I would like to try out a BP Maliko fin.)
Title: Re: What's the best weed fin?
Post by: SUP Sports ® on April 09, 2016, 08:45:42 AM
I've been designing weed fins for a couple of decades now...my FreeWeed designs will do the trick of shedding weeds while allowing for great tracking...speed...and, maneuverability...

https://youtu.be/sGFLWVGmAqU

Info:
http://supsports.com/sup-fins

Order link:
http://supsports.com/product-category/sup-fins/
Title: Re: What's the best weed fin?
Post by: Quickbeam on April 09, 2016, 05:12:10 PM
I use the SIC weedless fin and quite like it.

http://www.sicmaui.com/weedless-8-3/
Title: Re: What's the best weed fin?
Post by: juandoe on April 09, 2016, 06:41:15 PM
We have some pretty sticky weeds.  This works well for me.

http://www.makanifins.com/collections/stand-up-paddle-sup-fins/products/kawa-stand-up-paddle-sup-race-weed-fins

Title: Re: What's the best weed fin?
Post by: Area 10 on April 09, 2016, 09:35:23 PM
I need some ideas on a weed fin for my new Sunova Search 14'.

I had the JL Tracker on my M-14 and that worked well. Are there any other designs out there that I should consider?
How do you like the Search 14? How does it compare to the M14, and what conditions are you using it in?

Title: Re: What's the best weed fin?
Post by: Badger on April 10, 2016, 12:17:40 AM
How do you like the Search 14? How does it compare to the M14, and what conditions are you using it in?

I just bought the Search a few days ago. I'm taking it out for the first real test today. I'll do a review with pics after I have some time on it.

I got it mostly for surfing but also for downwinders and flatwater. It's definitely a better surfboard than the M-14. Probably not as fast on the flatwater but should go pretty good downwind.

I want the weed fin for downwinders. I forgot to specify that the fin will also have to allow the board to turn. The surf fin that comes with it is actually pretty swept back and may be adequate for now. It's going to take some thinking to choose a high performance fin with all the choices out there. They cost so much that I can't afford to experiment.

Title: Re: What's the best weed fin?
Post by: JimK on April 11, 2016, 05:59:26 AM
Badger,

I don't have a Search as you own the ONLY one in North America but on my 14Ft I LOVE for DW and surfing (yes SURFINGa 14FT board one of my "Guilty Pleasures")

I LOVE the RFC (Rainbow Fin Co) PREPPER Fast reasonbly turny and sheds EVERYTHING when others stop to clear the weeds (a swimming activity) I just glide through

If I can be of any help getting you one just PM or email me

JimK
Extreme Windsurfing
Title: Re: What's the best weed fin?
Post by: Badger on April 11, 2016, 07:26:48 AM
Thanks everyone. These are all really good suggestions. I will have to do some thinking and research.

Jim, I have a list going of things I need so I'll be contacting you soon.

Title: Re: What's the best weed fin?
Post by: baddog on April 11, 2016, 01:55:23 PM
Uhhh... late to the party, but that JL / Curtis fin is better for flatwater and "no Bueno" in the surf.  Take a look at the new FCS II Flow:

(http://i1148.photobucket.com/albums/o567/mootrail/Plow_PG__80094_1440384420_1280_960_zpsuspugpze.jpg) (http://s1148.photobucket.com/user/mootrail/media/Plow_PG__80094_1440384420_1280_960_zpsuspugpze.jpg.html)

Awesome all around fin that tracks well, turns and surfs well with drive and sheds weeds nicely with a bit of ramp and rake.  Can't say it will be good downwinding, but I'm guessing, yes.  The snap-in FCS IIs are awesome, the glass construction is durable and the $70 price point is a deal.  Comes in a  8", 10" & 11" sizes as well.

I'd recommend the Futures California Downwind as well, but the price is up there.

(http://i1148.photobucket.com/albums/o567/mootrail/Futures-California-Downwind-SUP-Fin-surf-accessories-sup-fins-01_zpsj8m5bicx.jpg) (http://s1148.photobucket.com/user/mootrail/media/Futures-California-Downwind-SUP-Fin-surf-accessories-sup-fins-01_zpsj8m5bicx.jpg.html)

A nice fin designed for California kelp conditions and my first choice if I'm just paddling in the open ocean.

As a Sunova fan, I'm guessing whatever fin you received as stock will not be good at shedding seaweed, even if it has a lot of sweep.  You need either a lot of fin rake like your JL or a bit of ramp on the leading edge along with a slightly laid back rake (Check the two fins above).  That ramp is key to forcing the seaweed down and off your fin.
Title: Re: What's the best weed fin?
Post by: Area 10 on April 11, 2016, 02:54:55 PM
Yes, the SIC Weedless is a great all-round/downwind fin, and very light.

The California downwind is good if you want more area. Expensive, but looks great.

Another one worth considering that hasn't already been mentioned is the Candace Appleby FCS fin. It's particularly useful if you want to surf as well as downwind your 14.

And if you are really on a budget the FCS SUP Touring Fin 9" in composite (that's plastic to you and me) is a surprisingly good all-rounder for a 14. It's pretty similar in shape to the Slater Trout fin which is many times more expensive. I have both of them and under most conditions I'd be pretty hard pushed to tell the difference when the board is actually in the water. Tough, cheap, effective. Lots to like there.
Title: Re: What's the best weed fin?
Post by: TallDude on April 11, 2016, 05:26:47 PM
Just to clarify, a weed fin is only going to slightly help you in kelp. As far as weeds go, the worst weed I have paddled in is the milfoil weed in Big Bear Lake which grows near the shore.  It's reed like and will wrap around a short foiled or vertical fin. I've seen the boards of people next to me and in front of me come to a complete stop and throw the paddler because the weeds wrapped around their fin. The reeds of the milfoil weed have little barbs that bind to each other. It gets thick and floats right surface. You have no choice but to paddle through a mile or two of it during the PaddleFest race. I've not only had no problems with my 'Eric Terrien' fin. In fact I don't feel the weed at all paddling straight threw it. 
Title: Re: What's the best weed fin?
Post by: SUP Sports ® on April 11, 2016, 06:41:06 PM
Fins are the least expensive way to unlock the hidden potential in practically any board...and, weed fins shouldn't just only be good for venues with weeds...the FreeWeeds work unbelievably well, with or without weeds...

I have had long conversations with fin gurus like George Greenough, Curtis Hesselgrave (RIP), & Jim Drake (RIP) regarding weed fin designs over the last several decades...as the Central California Coast is very weed choked...and, I have applied elements that have worked for me during extensive R&D into my designs...for SUP, windsurfing, & surfing...I firmly believe that FINS MATTER...and, in fact every board that we sell has a custom optimized fin set included...

I remember when my wifey was SUP racing and she was the only female to finish a race in Dana Point because she was the only paddler that had the right weed fin...funny thing is that I have personally ridden the same fin in over triple OH surf...so, unlike other fin offerings...I don't/won't design or build any fins that don't/won't also surf...;-)

Anyways, the CAD designed fins that I build are fairly priced at $10/inch...high quality...high performance...extensively tested...aesthetically gorgeous...

The bamboo core, in addition to helping to create progressive twist in the tip area of the fin...also, helps to make a more environmentally friendly product since it displaces hydrocarbons...

Here are some additional specs...






Title: Re: What's the best weed fin?
Post by: stoneaxe on April 11, 2016, 08:14:27 PM
I can't be the only one to notice that the thread subject line gets cut off in the "Unread Posts" column of the front page..... ;)

Title: Re: What's the best weed fin?
Post by: kelpstroke on April 11, 2016, 09:31:53 PM
(http://cdn.surffcs.com/images/surfboard-fins/sup_weed_racing.jpg)

I paddle the kelp beds of Palos Verdes with the 10" FCS weed racing fin and like it just fine.

My favorite weed fins are probably the blunt, shallow, permanently attached fins on my ULI.  Probably best for rivers but also great in the surf.
Title: Re: What's the best weed fin?
Post by: TallDude on April 11, 2016, 09:40:18 PM
I have that same fin on my 14' Hobie. It doesn't track as well, but it surfs better with that fin. Works good in kelp. Totally sucks in Lake weed.
Title: Re: What's the best weed fin?
Post by: Area 10 on April 12, 2016, 12:34:43 AM
Just to clarify, a weed fin is only going to slightly help you in kelp. As far as weeds go, the worst weed I have paddled in is the milfoil weed in Big Bear Lake which grows near the shore.  It's reed like and will wrap around a short foiled or vertical fin. I've seen the boards of people next to me and in front of me come to a complete stop and throw the paddler because the weeds wrapped around their fin. The reeds of the milfoil weed have little barbs that bind to each other. It gets thick and floats right surface. You have no choice but to paddle through a mile or two of it during the PaddleFest race. I've not only had no problems with my 'Eric Terrien' fin. In fact I don't feel the weed at all paddling straight threw it.
Yes, there are all kinds of weed. In the situation you describe I use either the Futures Keel fin or the True Ames SWT (Shallow Water Touring) fin. The SWT is probably the ultimate solution for really grim weedy situations.

But the OP is looking for a fin he can use for surf too, and downwinding. So presumably he's going in the sea, mostly, and dealing with kelp rather than lake or river weed. The highly specialised flat water fins like the two I've just mention are no good for serious downwinding or surf.

As mentioned before, the most important thing for a good kelp fin is to have the little "radius" (as the fin makers sometimes call it)  or ramp bit at the leading edge of the base of the fin. This is where stuff gets hung up. You've got to reduce the angle of that leading edge for the first inch or so.

I often paddle a canal that gets all manner of weed and flotsam in it in summer. The with a keel or SWT fin I can get through it, but the problem becomes the front of the board, not the fin. Flat water cutting-type displacement noses collect leaves, weed etc on the very top of the nose. It's amazing how much even a leaf or two slows you down. It's a good lesson in how much a clean entry to the water matters in pure flat water. In those situations you can actually be faster on a downwind board than a flat water one, because DW noses just glide over the weed etc. Crazy, huh?
Title: Re: What's the best weed fin?
Post by: Badger on April 12, 2016, 12:53:04 AM
What we have is eel grass. It grows in tidal rivers and bays.

It looks like this when it's growing but as it matures, it breaks off and floats around loose everywhere.

http://prepestuaries.org/01/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/eelgrass-FId.jpg

If you don't stop to remove it, you end up with a five pound clump of weed dragging on your fin. You can get it to come off by paddling backwards or standing on the nose. That's what I'm dealing with.

.

Title: Re: What's the best weed fin?
Post by: Area 10 on April 12, 2016, 02:13:46 AM
Well in that case, get the Fins Unlimited Eel Grass fin. You can't get more designed for your needs than that!
Title: Re: What's the best weed fin?
Post by: Badger on April 12, 2016, 03:29:22 AM
You got my hopes up but the FU Eel Grass fin doesn't look that great.

The Sea Grass fin would work better but isn't big enough for a board like the Search 14.

http://store.finsunlimited.com/finsup.html

.




Title: Re: What's the best weed fin?
Post by: Bean on April 12, 2016, 03:49:04 AM
Badger, which fin box design do you have, US Standard or US Surf?
Title: Re: What's the best weed fin?
Post by: Badger on April 12, 2016, 04:04:58 AM
Badger, which fin box design do you have, US Standard or US Surf?

Not sure I know the difference. Can't find any info on Google.

It's the standard Futures type box.  What's the US Surf?



Title: Re: What's the best weed fin?
Post by: Bean on April 12, 2016, 06:44:53 AM
US-Standard seems to be used by the SUP Co's that have a windsurfing history like Fanatic, Naish, Starboard etc.  while the US-Surf box seems to be used by the likes of 404, SIC etc.  There is not a huge difference but US Standard fins are a little thicker at the fin tab, set a little deeper in the box and has a distinguishing hump (like on the Naish fin below,).  Fins made for the US Surf box will fit the US Standard box but not vice versa (unless you do a little cutting/grinding).

I would bet dollars to donuts that Sonova, having a strong surf background, uses the US-Surf, longboard box. 
Title: Re: What's the best weed fin?
Post by: Badger on April 12, 2016, 06:55:27 AM
Yup, Sunova uses the US Surf box.

I've seen that US Standard hump on other fins, Angulo I think was one, and never knew why it was there.

.
Title: Re: What's the best weed fin?
Post by: Bean on April 12, 2016, 07:06:25 AM
Good to know, it seems eventually we'll all have at least one Sunova in our quiver...
Title: Re: What's the best weed fin?
Post by: Area 10 on April 12, 2016, 07:33:18 AM
You got my hopes up but the FU Eel Grass fin doesn't look that great.

The Sea Grass fin would work better but isn't big enough for a board like the Search 14.
I don't think you'd find that the Sea Grass to be too small at all. Most SUP fins are too big at the moment IMO. The Search is very low volume for a 14ft SUP, and you'll be able to sink the tail fine, and it's got hard rails there so you won't need very much fin. You can go smaller than you think with fins that have plenty of tip volume (unlike a Dolphin shape).

Too much fin just adds drag. I actually prefer the 7" SIC weedłess fin to the 8.3" one for most ocean paddling. Much easier to quarter wind and waves.

Most people use large fins because their board is too tippy for them. But they'd usually be better off getting a wider board and dropping the fin size IMO.

If you want to be able to turn your 14 hard and surf it well then you don't want to overdo the rake. It's all about compromise, and you've asked for a couple of things that don't sit easily together (eg. weed-shedding but good for DW and surf).

The Futures Triangle cutaway sheds weeds well too, and there's a big one if you want to add stability. It's not the greatest DW or surf fin in the world, but it you want one that adds stability, sheds weeds, and tracks well then that is worth looking at too.

Fins are very personal choices. But in general you want to be going as small as you find gets the job done. And what you can get away with is probably smaller than you think. The old surfer's longboard adage that you need an inch for every foot of board (ie. a 10fter needs a 10" fin) does not apply to SUPs.

I wish someone made a weed-shedding (ie. more raked, and with a radius at the bade) squirrel fin (check True Ames Squirrel fin), but unfortunately no-one yet does. It would be an awesome ocean SUP fin.
Title: Re: What's the best weed fin?
Post by: Badger on April 12, 2016, 08:44:15 AM

If you want to be able to turn your 14 hard and surf it well then you don't want to overdo the rake. It's all about compromise, and you've asked for a couple of things that don't sit easily together (eg. weed-shedding but good for DW and surf).


The weed fin I'm looking for would be primarily for downwinders and flatwater.  For surfing, I use the surf fin that came with the board.

We do most of our downwinders on an inland bay. There aren't many opportunities for ocean downwinders around here. Weeds aren't a problem in the ocean anyway.

So far, I like the Futures CA Downwind and the RFC Prepper. They look like they would shed weeds and still turn well.

You're right, I probably don't need a big fin. The Search is stable even without a fin.

.

Title: Re: What's the best weed fin?
Post by: mrbig on April 12, 2016, 08:54:30 AM
Bean. +1 on the differences between the two. Old dog did a lot of grinding to get some Maui Fin Kai Lenny's to fit. Dremel the humpty dumpty bump into oblivion. New knowledge always welcome! Gracias.

Badger, we have the lovely eel grass here on the cape as well. The older JL weed fin worked a treat! Kelp and eel grass completely different so I will keep my yap shut regarding speculation on kelp fins.
Title: Re: What's the best weed fin?
Post by: Bean on April 12, 2016, 09:09:37 AM
Mr Big, I've thought about the MFC fin for my Jav, but I'm no Kai ;D
Title: Re: What's the best weed fin?
Post by: mrbig on April 12, 2016, 09:40:14 AM
Bean, Ha! Me neither. I got a huge BOP 32 cm monster to stabilize my Tippecanoe Marlin in chop. Learned a lot about primary and secondary instability in crazy wind chop. And Exocet non-standard boxes!!

When I go to recreational paddles and real racers see it they all laugh!
Title: Re: What's the best weed fin?
Post by: SUP Sports ® on April 12, 2016, 10:39:26 AM
Badger, which fin box design do you have, US Standard or US Surf?

Not sure I know the difference. Can't find any info on Google.

It's the standard Futures type box.  What's the US Surf?

I've never heard the Euro box fins referred to as "US Standard"...IMO, they are not standard at all in the US for most US domestic board builders...;-)
The Futures box (US box) which I design my fins around is for fins with 9mm thickness...the Euro box fins use 9.6mm thickness and do have the offset for the greater depth of the box...

On another note...
We do also have Eel Grass here in Santa Barbara...my FreeWeeds have been tested extensively in it...standup paddling...paddlesurfing...& windsurfing...they have also been tested at a particularly notorious spot down in the Baja that becomes fully plugged with it in the Summertime...especially, at lower tides...
Title: Re: What's the best weed fin?
Post by: Bean on April 12, 2016, 11:09:18 AM
I've never heard the Euro box fins referred to as "US Standard"...IMO, they are not standard at all in the US for most US domestic board builders...;-)

German Democratic Republic didn't make sense either...hey work with me here. ;D 
Title: Re: What's the best weed fin?
Post by: mrbig on April 12, 2016, 11:16:55 AM
Exocet said U.S. box..They lied, or perhaps, they were mispoken..U.S. box from "Somewhere in France"..
Title: Re: What's the best weed fin?
Post by: Bean on April 12, 2016, 11:28:13 AM
Sa·cré bleu!
Title: Re: What's the best weed fin?
Post by: SUP Sports ® on April 12, 2016, 11:37:54 AM
I used to manufacture G-10 fins for the E-box...I still have a quiver of Exocet waveboards with those fins...
Designed in France...built at Cobra...

There used to also be an issue with the Tuttle box fins back before US sailboard manufacturers became extinct...
Larry Tuttle developed the base format here in the US...then, it was knocked off overseas...
The Cobra factory version was slightly different...we called it "CT" for Cobra Tuttle...;-)

Folks need to be careful not to use deeper base fins in shallow boxes...or, too long of fin tab screws...especially, with 2 piece US boxes...
We discovered a leaky fin box issue when I first started working with Joe Bark back in the day when he was using them...
Title: Re: What's the best weed fin?
Post by: mrbig on April 12, 2016, 11:46:08 AM
Too funny Warren. In my experiments to get the Kai Lenny to fit I discovered shorter screws had to be used or mayhem would result..
Title: Re: What's the best weed fin?
Post by: LeeBee on April 12, 2016, 06:28:56 PM
Take a look at the BlackBox Surf site. They have a fin that got very good reviews re. speed and has a very good rake angle for weeds. They make it in two sizes. It is listed a very good price and can say the smaller sized model (orange) which I bought is nicely shaped.
Title: Re: What's the best weed fin?
Post by: baddog on April 12, 2016, 10:44:26 PM
Badger, which fin box design do you have, US Standard or US Surf?

The Bahne Box aka Fins Unlimited / Futures / American / US Surf / etc. is the STANDARD for surfboards and most non-windsurfing SUP brands like Bark, SIC and Sunova.

The US Box is a windsurfing box which I believe was originally the Chinook Box and/or A Box and used by the majors, all of who came from windsurfing; Starboard, Naish, Fanatic, etc.  Why it's US Box now and fins can be list as US Box and/or A Box is some irrelevant windsurfing mystery.

The US Box is deeper and wider vs the thinner and shallower Bahne Box.

The Bahne Box fin has a 9mm base width that is shallower and has a higher pin position.

(http://i1148.photobucket.com/albums/o567/mootrail/Bahne%20Box_zps2bvu46gy.jpg) (http://s1148.photobucket.com/user/mootrail/media/Bahne%20Box_zps2bvu46gy.jpg.html)

The US Box fin has a 9.2mm base width that is deeper with a tab and has a lower pin position.

(http://i1148.photobucket.com/albums/o567/mootrail/Bahne%20Box_zpsj3ywdzy3.jpg) (http://s1148.photobucket.com/user/mootrail/media/Bahne%20Box_zpsj3ywdzy3.jpg.html)

Although Standard Bahne Box fins fit into an US Box, they fit too low in the box and are generally loose and wiggly around.  You get lucky occasionally, but there are a few sure fire fins that always fit tight; the FCS IIs!

No reason ever to fit a US Box fin into a Bahne Box.  For a proper fit, the base needs to be ground down and the pin relocated.  Besides, the G10 fins are heavy, overkill for SUP speeds, over priced and designed mostly off old windsurfing fins.
Title: Re: What's the best weed fin?
Post by: Area 10 on April 12, 2016, 11:15:30 PM
Thats a great explanation baddog, thanks very much.

Buying a fin with a Chinook/windsurf fitting when your board has a surfboard fitting leads to a world of pain. I bought a Black Project Maliko downwind fin that BP told me would be great for my SIC Bullet. Build it had a windsurf fitting and the SICs use surfboard boxes. I had to spend 2 hours grinding away at a G10 fin to get it to fit. And then the heaviness of the G10 material unbalanced the board when I was carrying it.

You can't always tell what box you are going to find in a board though. Gong use (or used to use) a Chinook/Windsurf type box yet it isn't a windsurf brand.

In general the whole situation is a mess, and it's a total PITA, especially if like me you have multiple boards from different manufacturers and like to experiment with fins. I pretty much end up customising a set of fins for every board I have. The situation is made worse by the fact that the tolerances of the boxes change slightly when they are fitted due to expansion etc of materials. So you can have two boards from the same brand but which won't take the same fins unless eg. you are willing to have the fin wobbly in one and needing a mallet to fit it in another.
Title: Re: What's the best weed fin?
Post by: Quickbeam on April 12, 2016, 11:45:19 PM
Take a look at the BlackBox Surf site. They have a fin that got very good reviews re. speed and has a very good rake angle for weeds. They make it in two sizes. It is listed a very good price and can say the smaller sized model (orange) which I bought is nicely shaped.


Hey LeeBee,

I’m curious which Blkbox fin you have? I went on their website and they list two different fins, each one in two different sizes. They have the Custom Race fin by Larry Allison and the Custom Race fin from Futures, both of which come in either 6.5” or 8”. Which one is it you have? Was also wondering if you knew where the reviews were? I did  a quick search but couldn’t find anything. On the Blkbox website they have the same quote from Gary Stone from Paddleboard Specialists for each fin, but I couldn’t find anything else. Are there any other reviews you’re aware of? Anything else you can tell me about your fin?

Thanks for any information you might have.
Title: Re: What's the best weed fin?
Post by: Bean on April 13, 2016, 03:57:30 AM
Semantics aside, as long as we know that there are more than one longboard style box in use by the major manufactures.   Easy enough to know what you have by simply looking at your fin base.

Black Project is one of the very few fin companies that actually offer their fins with the two specific bases.  I got interested in this thread because of my interest in their fins.  Area 10, I bet they would exchange that fin for you.

I'm with QB on the Blackbox fins, and would also like to see the one LeeBee is talking about.
Title: Re: What's the best weed fin?
Post by: mrbig on April 13, 2016, 05:38:49 AM
Great information. Just for fun went to the new improved MFC website and observed that their fins fit U.S. Box. The hump was still on the fin base, however!

I know from painful experience how much work it is to grind to fit. And you will need a rubber mallet..

Detailed factual information such as was uncovered in this thread is what makes the zone such a great place.
Title: Re: What's the best weed fin?
Post by: Larry Allison on April 13, 2016, 11:48:05 AM
Interesting Thread here which I have been getting PM's to share in. I have been watching this thread and noticed alot of good info along with bad smoke and mirrors info as well. Hope you don't mind if I speak honestly which may offend some of the promoter guys, but I am more concerned about the people who spend their hard earned dollars to understand and get the most for their money which is one of the great things I love about the Standup Zone. Alot going on in this thread which makes it confusing, so I will star with the title "Weed Fin".

In the mid 80's I was lucky to spend time in Corpus Kristy and South Padre Texas doing Windsurf shows and Windsurfing with surf. In understanding Eelgrass, it's like speghetti it wraps around the fin. I designed a fin called the Ninja Race Weed, like the pic below with a 35 degree leading edge to allow the eelgrass to slide off at high speeds. What people are not aware of, is that at 15 to 25 miles a hour speed on water your fin creates a vacuum that causes the Eelgrass to stick at the leading edge of your fin 2 to 3 inches off the base, like the chart with the red lines acting as Eelgrass shows. What I was not aware of till recently is that if your Sup fin with a large tip area over hang off the trailing edge along with a angle of 50 degrees or greater. Eelgrass will stick and wrap around the curve in the trailing edge like the Gladiator type design which Red line Eelgrass shows below. I never experienced this before because I only produce Fiberglass fins where the tip taper foil along with the "S" flex twisting off releases the Eelgrass most of the time. But now in seeing my same designed made by someone else overseas in todays low cost cookie cutter technology of Honeycomb, the fin flex's laterally from tip to base acting like a hook in the tip catching the Eelgrass. This Honeycomb structure also effects the projection of the same fin plan shape compared to Fiberglass which is the best projection twang over the mussy feel of Honeycomb.

All my Sup designs have a leading edge sweep of 40 degrees or less which is why they all go thru Kelp and Eelgrass. I found back in 2007 when I was first paddling with a Noserider fin that the Ninja Weed Fin  made me aware of this for tracking and stability. The Chart below shows the Leading edge Rake of a surf fin compared to my Sup Fins. Even my surf Sup fins start at 40 degrees to 45 degrees like the Moray fin which is the middle fin in the chart below.
Title: Re: What's the best weed fin?
Post by: Larry Allison on April 13, 2016, 12:21:49 PM
Take a look at the BlackBox Surf site. They have a fin that got very good reviews re. speed and has a very good rake angle for weeds. They make it in two sizes. It is listed a very good price and can say the smaller sized model (orange) which I bought is nicely shaped.

Yes LeeBee, I find it interesting and I guess Flattering when people use your design as a starting point but claim design rights and forgets the history behind the fin along with the developing time that was put into the fin years ago. Not to mention then having the same fin made in a Honeycomb structure which kills the design function of the fiberglass function. LeeBee would explain why my name is on the fin my friend along with the good reviews. Here are some pics showing the transformation from Ninja Race to Stealth Ninja to a rounded tip Stealth Ninja which is now a Blk Box in Blue down to a curved tip to call it surf blk box orange. 
Title: Re: What's the best weed fin?
Post by: Larry Allison on April 13, 2016, 02:27:16 PM
Take a look at the BlackBox Surf site. They have a fin that got very good reviews re. speed and has a very good rake angle for weeds. They make it in two sizes. It is listed a very good price and can say the smaller sized model (orange) which I bought is nicely shaped.


Hey LeeBee,

I’m curious which Blkbox fin you have? I went on their website and they list two different fins, each one in two different sizes. They have the Custom Race fin by Larry Allison and the Custom Race fin from Futures, both of which come in either 6.5” or 8”. Which one is it you have? Was also wondering if you knew where the reviews were? I did  a quick search but couldn’t find anything. On the Blkbox website they have the same quote from Gary Stone from Paddleboard Specialists for each fin, but I couldn’t find anything else. Are there any other reviews you’re aware of? Anything else you can tell me about your fin?

Thanks for any information you might have.

Opps, Sorry Quickbeam I meant to copy you with LeeBee! Mahalo,Larry
 
Title: Re: What's the best weed fin?
Post by: Larry Allison on April 14, 2016, 09:18:00 AM
Wanted to share some fin ideas for downwind conditions. Will start first with the Elite Aercor that Jeremy Riggs uses in Wave swell conditions, where you are riding a swell with wind assist. Here's a review and pic talking about the Aercor, with it's enclose bearing locking concept "Clicl It" used now by me for the last 4 years. This fin will be available in a Carbon Foam sandwich (NOT HONEYCOMB) later May for those who's mind set is weight. This fin is already light hence the name AERCOR!

Luc Benac  · Burnaby, BC, Canada ·
Tried Stubby - the TWC SIC Bullet 12 - last week-end. My first reaction was that somebody took a saw to the board - where is the nose? But it is a nice little fun board. And tug boat wake was encouraging. I think that it could double both as an all-around board for my wife and a surfy, sneaky, durable board for short period waves when we got a front coming to the Rock or Spanish Banks. Sure got the perfect fin for it
Title: Re: What's the best weed fin?
Post by: Larry Allison on April 14, 2016, 09:57:10 AM
The Ninja is a Favorite for over 2 decade in 2 Sports, Windsurfing and Now Sup. The Ninja has the same plan shape but different structure lay up,in Windsurfing this fin was laminated with a Iso and Polyester Resin blend because of lateral stress loads along with a foil thickness of 7/16" thick for control. In the Sup world of today this fin is made up of a straight Polyester Resin blend at 3/8" thick for slower speeds and flex. This fin will never be made by me in a lightweight mold structure because the flex properties would change and turn this fin into a Anchor.

My friend Teene Froiseth in Hawaii at Makaha uses this fin as one of his favorites for downwind, because the water swell is different from Maui where Jeremy paddles. The depth of the Ninja gives you hold in a rolly surface and the flex makes the fin feel small for projection and maneuvering on high volume boards. The Ninja comes in Screw/Plate combo or Screwless in "Click It" style in a Fiberglass Layup only, which can be used on 12'6" or 14' boards.
Title: Re: What's the best weed fin?
Post by: Larry Allison on April 14, 2016, 10:05:27 AM
I will return with more downwind fin info, have to go in the sand pit because Race Season is on and Special Surfboard fins for overseas have to get done by me to help the crew finish. I shall return my friends.
 
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