Standup Zone Forum
General => The Shape Shack => Topic started by: TallDude on June 27, 2015, 04:01:38 PM
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I've been threatening to do a Shape3Dx Lite tutorial for a while, so here it is. I'm for the most part self taught on Shape3D. I've been fortunate to have Mark Johnson of Hobie and Timmy Patterson spend time with me and share their knowledge of the program. I'm a CAD guy by profession, a use a number of different CAD programs daily. I've been a software trainer for as well, so this didn't take me that long to throw together. I hope this thread grows with the input from the experts and questions from the future virtual shapers. Feel free to add, correct, and hopefully set me straight on my path to a great designs.
I would like to thank Shape3D for providing us with such a fun program. This thread is my donation of time to the Shape3D cause.
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I'm going for a paddle :P
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perfect timing I just discovered this program and am trying to design the mother of all boards well maybe the baby sister but it looks way fun to try some design ideas.
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Nicely done.....that had to take a while to pull together. I didn't really look at all the pages but I could tell at a glance that it's detailed. Like you I've been doing CAD a long time. Shape3D is easy to get in and play with if you have any background but I've seen folks without get lost. This will useful for sure.
I've toyed with the idea of building or buying a CAM shaper as something to play with and make extra money in retirement and if I do Shape3D will be one of the tools for sure.
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having a problem caning the bottom shape of the board at the center and the nose . How do I add concave ? to the center of the board it seem that the stringer point on the bottom is fixed?
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Add concave by dragging the rail line down. You are correct in that the stringer line stays static.
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Like Surfinib said. Here is the graphic on that edit.
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Thanks for the tutorial TD!
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Very nice. I followed the tutorial with my copy of Shape3Dx. I actually feel fully capable of shaping a board this way. Well, except for the years of experience with how much of everything and where.
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thanks
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Very nice. I followed the tutorial with my copy of Shape3Dx. I actually feel fully capable of shaping a board this way. Well, except for the years of experience with how much of everything and where.
I know you'll have fun with it. Now I'm curious to see what the first Pono shape will be. You might as well open an account with your new friend 'the CNC guy'. Or better yet, build one.
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Dude, thanks for getting us rolling with this. I missed this when it hit... Sanding. In good news my mouse hand is now strong enough to take on Shape3D.
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Yeah, thanks TD. What you've done is a very cool thing. Comes at the perfect time for me. Thanks again!
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This is great and thanks for taking the time post all of this, TallDude! ;D
Can I create a board in the free version of Shape 3D using images like the ones below? If so, how difficult is that?
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Yes, thanks for taking the time in doing this. I couldn't figure out anything on this before. Couldn't find or at least sit through any kind of tutorial online I searched out. Now I just opened something up to start messing with.
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Check this.
http://www.shape3d.com/Warehouse/Default.aspx
Go pull a board that's close and start there. You can mock something up pretty quick I'm sure. There's a search down below and I saw several that were close.
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I've seen what's in the Warehouse but I really like the outline of that JP and I'm wondering if the rocker can be copied too.
Check this.
http://www.shape3d.com/Warehouse/Default.aspx
Go pull a board that's close and start there. You can mock something up pretty quick I'm sure. There's a search down below and I saw several that were close.
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This is great and thanks for taking the time post all of this, TallDude! ;D
Can I create a board in the free version of Shape 3D using images like the ones below? If so, how difficult is that?
Thanks dudes! I'm glad it made sense to a few of you.
I can import a photo of a board into AutoCAD and trace it. Then I scale it. If it's a 9' x 30", I just keep increase or decrease the size of the photo till it is 9' x 30". I can then measure it completely and plug those numbers into Shape3D. You can do this with out AutoCAD by using a copier to enlarge it to 1"= 1'-0" scale, then measure it with a ruler. This will get you close to the rocker and shape. The subtleties of the bottom and rail shapes you'll have to figure out via first hand measuring or guessing from photos. Scaling a rocker photo is really shooting in the dark. The curvature of a camera lens usually makes the rocker appear more than it really is. The rocker is so wave specific, that I just use the numbers I know I want for my break.
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If you have the actual digital photos of the board (not screen caps) and access to Photoshop you can correct for lens distortion (some free editors can do it also). Most digital files have all the data you need associated with them. If you list the properties you'll see camera make, model, exposure, focal length, lens, etc.. It's easy in Photoshop....just go to Filters then Lens Correction...it will automatically grab the data and allow a one click edit based on what it sees. Not sure just how well it would work for this but worth a try. There will be some distortion no matter what you do but it should get you pretty close. You could also then scale the photo and apply a grid to get all your measurements.
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Good job TD on the tutorial.
Is the load image function not avalable on the free vershion?
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You actually can. I just tried it. On the 'Superpose' (superimpose) Tab you can import an Image and a Ghost board. You can re-size and rotate the images too. I'l play around with it and add to the tutorial. Thanks' for the tip.
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Yay! ;D
You actually can. I just tried it. On the 'Superpose' (superimpose) Tab you can import an Image and a Ghost board. You can re-size and rotate the images too. I'l play around with it and add to the tutorial. Thanks' for the tip.
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Cool no worries load image is for using a picture load goast is for opening anouther file on top of the one you are working on so you can compare changes or sections ect. You can use the space bar to turn the image or gost on or off
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I'm using the free version on a Mac and the only way it seems that I can load an image is to open a .s3dx file first, and when I do, the image becomes superimposed on top of the .s3dx file I had to open. How do you create a new board design from an image?
Cool no worries load image is for using a picture load goast is for opening anouther file on top of the one you are working on so you can compare changes or sections ect. You can use the space bar to turn the image or gost on or off
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There is no option for image import (at least in the free version) without first creating or opening some existing board file. Once you do open a file, here are some of the basics.
Also, you might want to edit (rotate , flip, lighten-up, etc.) the picture prior to importing it.
Disclaimer: "The board imported was just for an example and intended for educational purposes only. No boards were copied or harmed during this edit."
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Thanks for taking the time to do this TallDude. I compiled your screenshots into a PDF for easier reading (I like to browse this sort of thing on my iPad). For anyone that's interested, you can download the PDF here: http://bit.ly/1McDVEN
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Thanks Kayadogg..... I dig the cover sheet :^)
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I've been messing around more. Fun that you can try different graphics and such, I hadn't played with that.....a bit garish with the sunrise pic but I think it would be kind of fun to have a custom 14'er made for the CCBC. 14' x 29" x 5.5", flat from nose to tail, 6" nose rocker, 3" tail, soft rails up front, boxed in the middle, sharp in the tail, 230 L volume. Took all of 5-10 minutes to do.
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I'm using the free version on a Mac and the only way it seems that I can load an image is to open a .s3dx file first, and when I do, the image becomes superimposed on top of the .s3dx file I had to open. How do you create a new board design from an image?
Cool no worries load image is for using a picture load goast is for opening anouther file on top of the one you are working on so you can compare changes or sections ect. You can use the space bar to turn the image or gost on or off
The normal way I do it is to open a new board and scale its length to what you want and the right click to bring up the tab and scroll down to load image and then when it asks you if yo want to scale it to length hit yes, all very simple and the same as above.
I would love to do some video tutorials but I wouldn't know how to start trying to record it all of the screen and process it so in the mean time td keep up the good work!
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Snagit does video screen caps. I created some Autocad and Sketchup training sessions with it long ago...works well but you need to be well prepared and scripted. This is old, at the time Snagit was limited to 1024 x 768 and youtube degraded the quality but you get the idea.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6dm9SNDVEQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6dm9SNDVEQ)
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I'm not sure I follow you but I would love to see a video of you doing that. If you have a Mac you can do the screen recording with Quicktime which came with your Mac and then upload it to a Youtube channel. Considering there are videos about everything on Youtube, I'm really surprised there are no Shape 3DX tutorials on Youtube.
I'm using the free version on a Mac and the only way it seems that I can load an image is to open a .s3dx file first, and when I do, the image becomes superimposed on top of the .s3dx file I had to open. How do you create a new board design from an image?
Cool no worries load image is for using a picture load goast is for opening anouther file on top of the one you are working on so you can compare changes or sections ect. You can use the space bar to turn the image or gost on or off
The normal way I do it is to open a new board and scale its length to what you want and the right click to bring up the tab and scroll down to load image and then when it asks you if yo want to scale it to length hit yes, all very simple and the same as above.
I would love to do some video tutorials but I wouldn't know how to start trying to record it all of the screen and process it so in the mean time td keep up the good work!
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unfortunately I don't have my shape 3d on my mac as it is only a small scree, yes I found the same there are very few vids on how to use shape 3d. At some point I will try to but its not going to be a while as im super busy at the moment. What td has done so far is great and correct.
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Ok, here's my cue.
Charlie, hit me up and we'll skype and I'll get you all set up to screen record and post video tutorials. Any of you other guys too. If you are on a Mac, and want to make instructional PDF's, Clarify is the ,out amazing thing you'll see. Write and screenshot and mark up the shots right in the app and then export. (I haven't found a PC app like it but I'll look a little.) cheap and awesome.
Skitch is the best for screenshots and marking them up, easy, drag and drop.
I may be a newb at shaping, but technical documentation and training is my jam.
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Great, I'm really looking forward to this. Thank you!
TallDude already said that in order to open an image in the free version of Shape 3DX that you have to open an existing .s3dx file first, so my question is... After opening an existing .s3dx file and then importing an image of a board, is there anyway to remove everything from the original .s3dx file so you can start new with the image you imported?
Ok, here's my cue.
Charlie, hit me up and we'll skype and I'll get you all set up to screen record and post video tutorials. Any of you other guys too. If you are on a Mac, and want to make instructional PDF's, Clarify is the ,out amazing thing you'll see. Write and screenshot and mark up the shots right in the app and then export. (I haven't found a PC app like it but I'll look a little.) cheap and awesome.
Skitch is the best for screenshots and marking them up, easy, drag and drop.
I may be a newb at shaping, but technical documentation and training is my jam.
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Magenta, dig in there and you'll see. In the end, any shape that you start with is really just a few points so just make a file with no real shape, just like you'd start with and then drop the image over that.
Think of it like a blank, you have to start with some piece of foam or else you're not shaping. Just make a silly board and modify it. It's all just numbers so you can edit anything.
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Got it! Thanks, and duh, why didn't I think of that?? ???
Magenta, dig in there and you'll see. In the end, any shape that you start with is really just a few points so just make a file with no real shape, just like you'd start with and then drop the image over that.
Think of it like a blank, you have to start with some piece of foam or else you're not shaping. Just make a silly board and modify it. It's all just numbers so you can edit anything.
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Ok, here's my cue.
Charlie, hit me up and we'll skype and I'll get you all set up to screen record and post video tutorials. Any of you other guys too. If you are on a Mac, and want to make instructional PDF's, Clarify is the ,out amazing thing you'll see. Write and screenshot and mark up the shots right in the app and then export. (I haven't found a PC app like it but I'll look a little.) cheap and awesome.
Skitch is the best for screenshots and marking them up, easy, drag and drop.
I may be a newb at shaping, but technical documentation and training is my jam.
cowboy, thanks for the recommendations. I started using Skitch after seeing this and it's awesome. I do a ton of screenshots and have gotten so used to saving them then annotating in Photoshop. This feels like cheating. I dig it. I need to spend some time with Clarify but that will be in a couple weeks.
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I love Evernote but didn't know about Skitch until now. Thanks! It would be nice to be able to add a Skitch icon to my Firefox menu bar so we can do faster screen captures instead of having to open the program separately. It would also be good if we could drag images on to the Skitch desktop instead of having to import button. I know, picky, picky! The pixelate feature is pretty cool.
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WOW! Thanks for that effort! I have had a tab open on my computer for 3 weeks now with the Shape3d lite download page ready to install. I've been afraid to download because, well because I am absolutely useless with computers and technology in general. After looking at this I now know that this is WAY beyond me. You people are amazing. I'm just gonna keep buying production boards. :)
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WOW! Thanks for that effort! I have had a tab open on my computer for 3 weeks now with the Shape3d lite download page ready to install. I've been afraid to download because, well because I am absolutely useless with computers and technology in general. After looking at this I now know that this is WAY beyond me. You people are amazing. I'm just gonna keep buying production boards. :)
Addapost-it's worth trying it, even if it's just opening existing files and playing. -J
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I opened Shape 3DX and clicked the create a new board button and very carefully inputted all the dimensions of a board I want (and double checked them) and the board it created looked like what would happen if a Meyerhoffer board had sex with a platypus. ??? I think I'll follow the instructions in this thread the next time.
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Magenta, I did the same thing lol. It seems to love the peanut!
I have a roughed in shape of my new board. Need to dig in and also get some help. Seems like smoothing shapes out is an art but it's great to rough in a shape, get the volume and take a look at what things look like in drat form.
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Magenta, I did the same thing lol. It seems to love the peanut!
I have a roughed in shape of my new board. Need to dig in and also get some help. Seems like smoothing shapes out is an art but it's great to rough in a shape, get the volume and take a look at what things look like in drat form.
So how did you get past the peanut shaped outline?
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I'm not sure what you guys are doing wrong. I've never gotten a peanut without trying. Take a screenshot of your design numbers and post them.
I've been doing CAD and modelling for so long (somewhere in excess of 40,000 hrs) I tend to forget where the stumbling points are for folks that haven't. I just started playing with it and even the 1st board out looked pretty good. I have to say I'm pretty impressed with the ease of use and what you can do with the software, even with the free version. The shape of the 7-4 I'm thinking of is a bit unusual but it let me create it pretty easily and tweaking it is downright fun.
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Unfortunately I deleted the file so I can't show you a screenshot.
I have a Shape 3dx file (free version) that I want to add add more width to the nose and tail measurements (at the 12" point). When I click the "Resize" button (see first image below) I can modify the length, width, thickness and rocker, but it doesn't show where I can modify the nose and tail measurements. Does that mean that the only way to add more width to the nose and tail measurements is to add control points at the 12" from the nose and tail points and then tweak those points manually to get more width?
And if that's the only way to do this, how do I add control points? When I click "Components" in the top menu and then "Add new point" it only shows me the option from the Center or the Apex and not the nose and tail. (see image #4)
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You'd be surprised what you can do by dragging the nose and tails grips out-ward and on an angle. You can do the same with the middle control point.
Like this......
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Lman, I just started from a similar board in the warehouse and tweaked that. Got me to where I wanna go with no drama.
And yeah, adding points will get you there and some boards already have 2 points that you can just drag apart.
TallDude, do you use the "from stringer" or whatever mode? I did that and it seemed easy to tweak things.
Stone axe, we've talked about Bézier curves before but it seems shape3d doesn't smooth them well. Maybe I just need more points. All in all I've only spent about 30 min in the program. Need to get a little deeper and I'm sure it'll all come along.
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Thanks Talldude. That'll work. If I want to add more width 12" from the nose but want the area after that to get pointy, should I add another control point?
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TallDude, do you use the "from stringer" or whatever mode? I did that and it seemed easy to tweak things.
Stone axe, we've talked about Bézier curves before but it seems shape3d doesn't smooth them well. Maybe I just need more points. All in all I've only spent about 30 min in the program. Need to get a little deeper and I'm sure it'll all come along.
I plug in my basic board length and width, then do all grip editing without really paying attention to the actual measurements along stringer or straight line.
Bézier curves allow you to stretch, push and pull connected curves in and out of plane. If a board outline was one continuous radius it would just be a continuous curve. If you add a nose or tail shape that is a different radius you would have a kink where the two different radii meet. Bézier curves eliminate the kink by mathematically blending the transition of the different radii.
The more control points you add along the rail, the more you risk having a non-flowing outline. In other words, you might end up with flat spots. Brian from Pro-Cam CNC told me to keep it simple and avoid unwanted pits, bumps, and flat spots.
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I have just the 3 points in my 7-4 and had enough control to do all I wanted. I did add points to the slices to do the funky deck I have. Like talldude said, play with the beziers 1st. If you still think you need to add points right click over the edge of the rail where you want it (displaying the grid 1st helps) then add the control point. If you are closer to the nose or tail when you click it will give the distance from nose or tail then.
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If you want to put in Points in spacific places for out lines or rockers you can ether use the guideline function or a trick I learnt is to drop control points were you want them along the stringer or outline move them to exactly were you want by typing in the x y or z coordinate and then once you have got the cove fairly accurate actually delete the points again so you are left with only 3 or so and it will smooth out the curve for you.
If you allso do a save and reload before you move the line you will get the blue line of the original to compare against.
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Thanks but I don't know what beziers are in relation to the program or how to use them. I will tonight though go through this thread while I have the program open and follow the instructions. Amazingly, a search on Youtube for "shape 3dx tutorial" brings up nothing.
By the way, that is a radical looking board, stoneaxe. When do you plan on building it? I hope you start a build thread.
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Clicking on a control point activates the bezier handles. Click and drag on the handles...you'll get the hang of it.
I will document the build....going to be my 1st....but it won't happen until spring at the earliest. No place to do it at the moment. Here's what I hope it looks like when its done. I added the wood inlay stripe, the pinstripes and dual stringer in Shape3D but the nose, tail blocks and pad were done in photoshop.
(http://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=28274.0;attach=65966;image)
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Thanks but I don't know what beziers are in relation to the program or how to use them. I will tonight though go through this thread while I have the program open and follow the instructions. Amazingly, a search on Youtube for "shape 3dx tutorial" brings up nothing.
By the way, that is a radical looking board, stoneaxe. When do you plan on building it? I hope you start a build thread.
Haha, I have officially pulled out of this discussion. I have deleted the program from my computer (I actually had my wife do that, I don't know how) I have no idea what you guys are talking about. I'll follow along purely as a spectator. carry on
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Okay man, I started at the beginning of this thread with the program open and I learned a lot. I was able to use a file I already had and successfully tweak it to the way I want it to be thanks to these instructions. Yay! I'll have more questions later no doubt but I really appreciate the time you spent creating all the screen captures with annotations and instructions, Talldude. Thanks, and thanks to everyone else that's been pitching in their advice too.
Is there any reason why I couldn't take the file for the 8-6 I modified tonight and transform it into the 10'er that I want to build even though the 10'er will have a radically different outline?
P.S. The screenshot of your 7-4 looks super cool! Did you create the deck pad pattern in photoshop?
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I shaped a few all rounders for a friend of mine who has a few sup shops. He wanted a 9'6, a 10'2 and an 11'2 board. I designed the 10'2 then went back to the main board spec and changed the length to 9'6. Then saved it as that board. Then increased it from the 10'2 model to an 11'2 model and save it as the 11'2. He had all three cut, and they turned out fine.
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I did that and it worked great. Thanks! I took the 8-6 that Tom Whitaker did for me and created a totally different 10'er out of it.
I shaped a few all rounders for a friend of mine who has a few sup shops. He wanted a 9'6, a 10'2 and an 11'2 board. I designed the 10'2 then went back to the main board spec and changed the length to 9'6. Then saved it as that board. Then increased it from the 10'2 model to an 11'2 model and save it as the 11'2. He had all three cut, and they turned out fine.
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I was wondering what we should be shooting for when it comes to Volume Distribution on surf sups? My gut tells me to bring the volume a bit forward because we paddle them standing up. What do you guys think?
The first two images are for my redesigned 8-6 and the second two are for the new 10'er. Does the volume distribution look right to you?
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Next question is how to make the very tips of the nose and tail look better. As you can see, the tip of the nose is really thick. I want to preserve the existing volume and thickness in the nose and tail but I want to make the tips look prettier. Would you remove the existing control points on the nose and tail and put new ones in different places? If so, where would you put them?
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You should be able to do it just by moving the points closer and ajusting the slice it's only on big fat race boards you need to add points
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Been playing around with a shape and trying to determine the buoyancy line.
When the application prompts me the measurement window it's not clear
to me how do I get to the correct values to fill in.
Also, is any way to see the affect of different rider weights on the waterline?
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just use the volume tab and use the equation that 1L is equivalent to 1kg or weight
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Hi
This is how I use it :
My weight being 90 kilos, + 20 kilos for the board, paddle, clothes, leash, water, I get a total weight of 110 kilos
Hence, I need a 110 liters volume below the buoyancy line. I enter 110 liters in "volume", so I can see where the buoyancy line will be, and adjust the volumes of the board if necessary.
For a 50 kilos rider, I would enter 70 liters.
There is a little bug in s3D versions before version 9.0.9.8 : if you change the design (width or lenght for instance) , the volume below the buoyancy line is recalculated, which didn't make sense. In 9.0.9.8 shape3d keeps the value you entered (110 liters in my example)
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My current shape3d design :)
16'x27" DW
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PaddleSpot..... I'm dig'n that whole shape and graphic 8)
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Been playing around with a shape and trying to determine the buoyancy line.
When the application prompts me the measurement window it's not clear
to me how do I get to the correct values to fill in.
Also, is any way to see the affect of different rider weights on the waterline?
I not sure about that rocker line. I'm guessing a DW shape. I had older Hobie unlimited that was surfable, but totally plowed water in the open ocean bump and was a complete dogs in flat water. They designed it for the 38 mile open ocean Catalina Island to Mainland race. That board only had 5" of nose rocker and 3" in the tail. From the DW boards I've looked at, I think you might want to smooth that rocker line out a bit, and just add a little flip near the nose. Here's one of Supuk pics he posted of his latest DW unlimiteds. Look at the rocker on them.
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@TallDude
I never knew this topic on Shape3D existed here on the Zoner site. Probably because it was started in 2015 and the last post for this topic was in October of 2015 until today. I joined the Zoner site in 2016 so I'm glad Burchas started it up again because if he hadn't, I would have never seen it.
I've seen the Shape3D video tutorials for it, but there is no narrative in them. Without narrative, I couldn't make head or tails out of the program. I just wanted to say "Thank You" for starting this topic thread.
Since I mainly mess around with thickness and volume for custom builds (did that with my custom Hammer); maybe now I can retire my pen, pad and educated guesses along with my calculator. ;)
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NW, you are welcome. Just another piece of software to burn endless hours on. Fun to some, work to others.
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This is how I use it :
My weight being 90 kilos, + 20 kilos for the board, paddle, clothes, leash, water, I get a total weight of 110 kilos
Now it make sense. Thanks.
This is some nose you got on that board. I like it.
I not sure about that rocker line. I'm guessing a DW shape.
First TD, thanks for putting this thing together. This is very helpful.
As for the board. The baseline of the shape is a replica of the Naish
Maliko 2017. So it's an all-water.
I adapted it to a 16' added some rocker, 3.3" tail, 6.5" nose.
I re-configured the outline so it's less parallel for better maneuverability.
Narrower shoulders and a piercing nose and added a little more volume
to the tail.
It's going to have a recessed deck transiting to a flat deck towards the
tail. Right now the board is 313 litter but I expect to take it further down.
Just started it so expect a lot to change. I'm in Maui now about to test
all sorts of boards to develop the rail and bottom contours.
Shape3D is really fun to play with. I'm sure i'll tap this thread for some
more tips and tricks.
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Burchas, I get it and it is really close Maliko. The thing I've found is as you stretch these boards longer the volume placement needs to be adjusted. The area with the largest amount of volume in the nose I've heard other shapers call it 'Recovery Volume'. If it is too far forward, it feels like you either need to stand more forward or back on the board. Like you can't find that middle spot to just stand. Once you move that Recovery volume back away from the nose, the board sort of balances out. There is a similar effect at the tail, but it's less noticeable due to the smaller volume inherently at the tail. As you extend into the unlimited lengths, this becomes even more pronounced.
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TD, now that you mentioned that, it make sense. Stretching the board
by 2 feet while keeping the same profile means that I'm now standing
one foot further from the nose bulk which will make the board harder to
control and like you said, behave differently.
I've make the correction and it looks much more balanced which also led
me to streamline the nose even further and I like much more now.
As for contours, double concave to a V with sharp rail line seems to be
the trend these days.
I was thinking a V to a single concave to a V for this board. have the concave
release at the back 1/3 of the board to a deep V. Riding few more board
the next few days. Maui is a good place to test shapes in various conditions.
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Is that rocker measured of a naish or just I guess of what it is?
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Is that rocker measured of a naish or just I guess of what it is?
Starting point was a replica of the Naish 3D rendering. I've increased
both nose and tail rocker since I have more board to work with.
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This is some nose you got on that board. I like it.
Surfski nose, DW SUP tail :)
I actually keep the nose of my flatwater 18' with a little more rocker
https://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,29707.msg324347.html#msg324347 (https://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,29707.msg324347.html#msg324347)
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How can I add a stringer with the FREE version (Shape 3DX)?
Thanks
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MW, is there an 'Elements' drop down on your screen?