Post by: Admin on April 21, 2015, 04:53:55 AM
3 Weeks into April, the Zone is seeing over 25% more users than last year. Users refers to both registered Zoners and guests alike.
Women are now at 11%. Sounds low but that has doubled.
44% of users are under 45 Years Old. That number is also growing. Under 35 has seen the largest bump.
Interest in Surf is growing modestly again but significantly trails general interest in the sport.
All of the above is based on Zone specifics. Google Trends has the important SUP search terms down slightly from last year (with the exception of "Stand Up Boards" which is up modestly. This likely has more to do with changing search and info gathering habits than it does sport health.
Summary: Expect company at your local spots this year.
Post by: spookini on April 21, 2015, 05:17:12 AM
* sales breakdown: inland locations vs. oceanside (surf specific shapes)
* sales breakdown: inflatable vs. hardboards. The # of iSUP variations the big companies offer now is a bit ridiculous, but they must feel the demand is there or will be there going fwd..
Post by: Admin on April 21, 2015, 06:01:11 AM
Good info. I'm curious re: the industry at large (esp in the US)..
* sales breakdown: inland locations vs. oceanside (surf specific shapes)
* sales breakdown: inflatable vs. hardboards. The # of iSUP variations the big companies offer now is a bit ridiculous, but they must feel the demand is there or will be there going fwd..
Sales figures are tough for all sports and are highly inaccurate. Especially now. It used to be easier as the large brick and mortar venues and some specialty shops would report to trade groups and that made up a significant percentage of sales. In the internet age most have no interest in sharing their sales info and if they did it would only be to mislead their competition :). Anecdotal is as good as it gets.
We are seeing growth from all US locations but the rate of growth in California, Hawaii and Florida have moderated where the other states are ramping up. We saw this start gaining momentum last year and that acceleration is continuing.
Post by: surf4food on April 21, 2015, 07:40:00 AM
On another note, how can we get more women and also more people of both genders under 40 to post on the Zone?
Post by: Admin on April 21, 2015, 08:09:34 AM
When ever I go out in Mission Bay on a nice warm day or any other flat water spot it seems women make up at least half if not more amongst paddlers out that day. If the biggest growth is in recreational flat water paddling and based on what I see, yeah 11 percent seems low and perhaps not very accurate.
On another note, how can we get more women and also more people of both genders under 40 to post on the Zone?
I see the same thing here (Hood River) in terms of women. Pretty close to 50% on the water. These are site usage statistics which simply tell us who is using the Zone. This may have more to do with who is doing the online gear research and possibly subsequent purchases over who is doing the riding. Interesting however that those segments are rising so quickly. That is new.
In answer to your second question, we could welcome more women and young people by killing the Hot Chicks thread and we could stop talking about our Plantar Somethinghurtsitis and low T counts, but we aren't likely to do any of those things. It smells like old guy balls around here...but its home.
Post by: surf4food on April 21, 2015, 08:22:55 AM
In answer to your second question, we could welcome more women and young people by killing the Hot Chicks thread and we could stop talking about our Plantar Somethinghurtsitis and low T counts, but we aren't likely to do any of those things. It smells like old guy balls around here...but its home.
[/quote]
Ha ha yep. I'm no spring chicken myself at 53 but it would be nice to interact with others outside my own demographic on here and I'd like to think I am still young at heart, maybe bordering on immature;)
Post by: spookini on April 21, 2015, 08:30:49 AM
Having said that, I doubt busy soccermoms have the time or inclination to hang out on the Zone.
"Recent posts" vs. "Recent threads" was bad enough. The hotchicks thread is tasteful. Killing it would be a FIASCO!! :( ;)
Post by: lucabrasi on April 21, 2015, 08:39:24 AM
Post by: surf4food on April 21, 2015, 08:45:56 AM
Post by: Beasho on April 21, 2015, 09:36:08 AM
I was out there the other day with (a guy named) Christi Davis who started surfing there the same week as Grant Washburn 24 year ago and he is 63. That morning he had caught 3 waves before I was even able to get comfortable :o
And I am only 18.
Post by: surf4food on April 21, 2015, 09:41:51 AM
Post by: TallDude on April 21, 2015, 10:12:55 AM
while were at Costco." Hot dogs!
Post by: pdxmike on April 21, 2015, 10:15:19 AM
I recommend standupzone to new people all the time, and since so many are women it seems some growth in women here is inevitable. Not being one myself, I don't know what would make this site more attractive for women, but my guess is they'll come here for the same reasons guys do--general advice, gear reviews, etc. If there are topics of special interest to women, they'll generate them themselves. It seems most efforts to intentionally attract women to something are patronizing and horrible--the "pink board syndrome".
Post by: stoneaxe on April 21, 2015, 10:33:51 AM
I'm guessing women are about 30% of SUPs overall but maybe only 5% surf here in new England. Almost none that I know are on the zone despite my mentioning it more than a few times. Most are on FB and pretty active there. I think it's the old guys balls smell admin talks of.
Getting more ladies here....easy....do a men of the zone calendar. I'll volunteer for the spread (it will take that much to show all my magnificence).... :o
Post by: robon on April 21, 2015, 10:45:59 AM
As far as a younger demographic in males and females using the zone on a regular basis? Not going to happen. The popular threads around here are retirement related with a lot of topics on the zone having an over 50 vibe going. Just the way it is. Great site for information on gear and how to get started, but younger paddlers aren't likely to stick around once they get the information they are looking for.
Post by: spookini on April 21, 2015, 10:58:19 AM
There's a standup facebook page here-- Stand Up Portland--don't know the actual numbers breakdown, but women are at least as active as men in posts, and the most common posts seem to be women organizing meetups
What little I know about women, I'd say that's where most would likely spend there online SUP-time -- FaceBook and meetup pages. It has nothing to do w/ the old-man smell here.
Pdx, Atleta is basically porn for old men like
And let's leave my pink SUP out of this.
Post by: PonoBill on April 21, 2015, 12:13:37 PM
So yeah, growth seems steady but not explosive, and most of it is inland. That tallies with the reported "industry research" which as admin points out is useless bullshit.
I don't think SUP growth will ever be explosive. We went through the traditional fad period in the middle of a recession. Everyone knows what it is now, I never get the "whut the heck is that thing" comments anymore, though I occasionally get the "Surf's Up?" comment when well inland, which is apparently very clever and humorous.
The tailout in Google search is predictable. You don't search for something you already know about unless you are taking some action. So the "what is standup paddling?" searches are pretty much done. I love using google trends for research, but it's a limited tool. The best indication of worldwide SUP growth would be Asian manufacturer's stats, but those are even more unlikely to contain actual information.
(http://www.ponostyle.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/GoT.jpg)
The most intense interest per capita in Game Of Thrones is in Kazakhstan. You can come up with all kinds of reasons why that might be so, my guess was it's newly available. But no, it was as intense in 2009 when the series started. Given the general level of intrigue in that region it's possible they think it's reality TV.
Post by: pdxmike on April 21, 2015, 12:32:04 PM
This video covers this subject:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4EDhdAHrOg
Post by: Admin on April 21, 2015, 12:56:00 PM
Consider also that some of the users with ambiguous names may be women. I just learned that Chan is not an Asian dude.
Post by: TallDude on April 21, 2015, 01:54:06 PM
They need to make boards lighter so women can load them onto there cars easier.
The car racks need to be smarter, like secure themselves.
They need a big strap handle you can put over your shoulder.
They need to make boards wide enough to do yoga on. Not just the little miss thong size either!
They need at least one cup holder, and a spot for a towel.
They need to stay in one place while doing yoga, or in the middle of a very important conversation with a friend.
They need to come with matching rash guards and workout shorts.
They need to be shorter as to not be an issue in the Starbucks drive thru.
And the fins need to be reversible so they can be loaded on the car either way. I don't want to talk about this one anymore! ::)
Post by: Chan on April 21, 2015, 03:29:58 PM
Things to improve on so women will be more likely to try SUP:
They need to make boards lighter so women can load them onto there cars easier.
The car racks need to be smarter, like secure themselves.
They need a big strap handle you can put over your shoulder.
They need to make boards wide enough to do yoga on. Not just the little miss thong size either!
They need at least one cup holder, and a spot for a towel.
They need to stay in one place while doing yoga, or in the middle of a very important conversation with a friend.
They need to come with matching rash guards and workout shorts.
They need to be shorter as to not be an issue in the Starbucks drive thru.
And the fins need to be reversible so they can be loaded on the car either way. I don't want to talk about this one anymore! ::)
If they could do something with board storage like the banana industry has done I think the female market might respond well. http://www.dumpaday.com/funny-pictures/the-groupon-employee-in-charge-of-replying-to-comments-needs-a-serious-raise/
Post by: pdxmike on April 21, 2015, 03:36:26 PM
Post by: noworrieshawaii on April 21, 2015, 03:37:07 PM
Post more pics of Danny Ching's abs... :)
Post by: Admin on April 21, 2015, 04:59:56 PM
Post by: esskay1000 on April 21, 2015, 06:06:14 PM
If they could do something with board storage like the banana industry has done I think the female market might respond well. http://www.dumpaday.com/funny-pictures/the-groupon-employee-in-charge-of-replying-to-comments-needs-a-serious-raise/
Post by: SeaMe on April 21, 2015, 06:38:54 PM
The hotchicks thread is tasteful.
As compared to what, Penthouse Forum letters? :P If a bunch of grown men want to act like horndogs on a public forum, far be it from me to stop any of them, but I'm sure more than one woman has spent time lurking and decided it's not worth joining in because of what sometimes passes for 'humor'.
Post by: SUPcheat on April 21, 2015, 07:12:26 PM
Post by: lucabrasi on April 21, 2015, 07:44:14 PM
This video covers this subject:Oh my word.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4EDhdAHrOg
Well thank goodness for the new calender and banana bunkers to right the ship. :DThe hotchicks thread is tasteful.
As compared to what, Penthouse Forum letters? :P If a bunch of grown men want to act like horndogs on a public forum, far be it from me to stop any of them, but I'm sure more than one woman has spent time lurking and decided it's not worth joining in because of what sometimes passes for 'humor'.
Post by: SUPcheat on April 21, 2015, 08:04:04 PM
Post by: spookini on April 22, 2015, 04:48:52 AM
As compared to what, Penthouse Forum letters?I dunno, seems pretty tame to me. Zoners have posted pictures of there gf's and wives.
Can anyone spot SeaMe in this picture?? :o ;D
Post by: lucabrasi on April 22, 2015, 04:58:51 AM
No clue but you would never catch me in a solid beach hat with stripes on my suit.As compared to what, Penthouse Forum letters?I dunno, seems pretty tame to me. Zoners have posted pictures of there gf's and wives.
Can anyone spot SeaMe in this picture?? :o ;D
Post by: PonoBill on April 22, 2015, 09:01:56 AM
Post by: pdxmike on April 22, 2015, 09:16:20 AM
Post by: PonoBill on April 22, 2015, 09:23:42 AM
Post by: TallDude on April 22, 2015, 09:39:31 AM
Well, Admin, that 11% must have been nice while it lasted.But it's that 11% that we live for.
Post by: pdxmike on April 22, 2015, 09:46:48 AM
Post by: Area 10 on April 22, 2015, 09:57:18 AM
I agree with you, SeaMe. It is frankly a bit sad IMO - mostly a bunch of old men leering over girls young enough to be their granddaughter. It is out of keeping with the sophistication elsewhere on the forum. But we've had this argument before and nothing changed then, so I guess the smell of old men's balls will keep the pictures of granddaughters rolling in forever. There's a very nuanced argument to be had on the topic with arguments both ways, but we aren't gonna be having it here, if past experience is anything to go by.The hotchicks thread is tasteful.
As compared to what, Penthouse Forum letters? :P If a bunch of grown men want to act like horndogs on a public forum, far be it from me to stop any of them, but I'm sure more than one woman has spent time lurking and decided it's not worth joining in because of what sometimes passes for 'humor'.
Post by: NEplay on April 22, 2015, 10:08:23 AM
There is one young women who paddles out in pretty rugged surf at Long Sands in York, at least I saw her once but did not get a chance to say hello.
There is pretty slow growth amongst women in the surf in New England it seems to me. As far as racing and performance flat water it seems to be the same old group every year for women and I mean old(ish). But New England is always slow to adapt.
I am of two minds about the hot chicks thread, boys will be boys I suppose. I have clicked on it and have seen beautiful photos and some seriously cheesy stuff. Not to call out Pono but if its true that men here gag if they are confronted with male genitals then the sport has bigger problems.
Post by: SlatchJim on April 22, 2015, 10:10:40 AM
Post by: SeaMe on April 22, 2015, 12:18:23 PM
As compared to what, Penthouse Forum letters?I dunno, seems pretty tame to me. Zoners have posted pictures of there gf's and wives.
Can anyone spot SeaMe in this picture?? :o ;D
Me, a prude? My husband would tell you otherwise. :-*
I agree with you, SeaMe. It is frankly a bit sad IMO - mostly a bunch of old men leering over girls young enough to be their granddaughter. It is out of keeping with the sophistication elsewhere on the forum. But we've had this argument before and nothing changed then, so I guess the smell of old men's balls will keep the pictures of granddaughters rolling in forever. There's a very nuanced argument to be had on the topic with arguments both ways, but we aren't gonna be having it here, if past experience is anything to go by.
I don't expect change but the "guys just being guys" echo chamber has gotten old (no pun intended). I'm not interested in policing anyone (or being policed in turn) but I will throw out food for thought: Google a "SUP" topic and the Zone is almost universally the first result, meaning many non-members pass through here when looking for info. So when you post to the Zone, it's not like you're talking to a small group of friends at a table who know you as a person and get your sense of humor; it's like you're on stage in front of an open mic in a theater crowded with strangers who are judging you solely on what's coming out of your mouth in that moment.
A "Women and Sup" thread wouldn't completely miss the mark, especially one that takes time to appreciate women of all ages doing all things SUP. Do NOT...put the "hot chicks' thread in there, ... keep the salacious appropriately separated.
I'll skip the debate over whether "salacious" content belongs on any SUP forum, but something to remember is that a thread of that sort is going to show up in the "recent" feed whenever someone posts, and it's common for the mentality to leak into other threads. Keeping it separate might not be as simple as saying, "don't click."
Post by: feet on April 22, 2015, 01:37:57 PM
If the Zone actually cared about being welcoming to women, the HC thread would have been killed long ago. I think SUP and the Zone can do without the objectification of women in this fashion. I never understood the pin-up snap-on tool calendars my mechanic uncle hung up around the garage, and the HC thread oozes the same creepy, unwelcoming vibe. An old boys club, if you will...
The sport in general is still full of exciting developments. I think the BOP style races are a lot of fun to watch and the sport could easily capitalize on that aspect. The fact that I've been drooling over TOMO styled boards all winter is a testament to the new and exciting shapes still being developed.
Post by: esskay1000 on April 22, 2015, 02:52:02 PM
Im a 33 yo guy. I lurked for 2-3 years and joined in 2013 perhaps. I stayed around because I appreciate the intelligent discussion of SUP related and other more general topics. The voices here are unique (in spite of the stat that it is ~80% male and mostly 50+) and very knowledgeable.
If the Zone actually cared about being welcoming to women, the HC thread would have been killed long ago. I think SUP and the Zone can do without the objectification of women in this fashion. I never understood the pin-up snap-on tool calendars my mechanic uncle hung up around the garage, and the HC thread oozes the same creepy, unwelcoming vibe. An old boys club, if you will...
The sport in general is still full of exciting developments. I think the BOP style races are a lot of fun to watch and the sport could easily capitalize on that aspect. The fact that I've been drooling over TOMO styled boards all winter is a testament to the new and exciting shapes still being developed.
While I agree with you on the objectifying women thing and wouldn't care if the HC thread stopped, we have to remember that women push the objectification of women in media just as much - or arguably more - than men, so it frustrates me when they cry about it because they're a big part of the problem. All those magazines in the grocery store checkout line with half naked women on the cover and inside - most are women's magazines and purchased almost solely by women. Some issues of Cosmo are practically porn, but it's women buying it and looking at scantily clad women in the magazine. As this article points out, men like looking at hot, half-naked women, and women do too. Let's face it, women are beautiful and fun to look at, and men smell.
http://www.theatlantic.com/sexes/archive/2013/03/womens-magazines-objectify-women-just-as-much-as-mens-magazines-do/274330/ (http://www.theatlantic.com/sexes/archive/2013/03/womens-magazines-objectify-women-just-as-much-as-mens-magazines-do/274330/)
Post by: TallDude on April 22, 2015, 02:57:42 PM
Post by: SlatchJim on April 22, 2015, 02:59:58 PM
I think there is room for improvement 8)That's who you remind me of! ;D
Post by: spookini on April 22, 2015, 03:14:45 PM
The HC thread? Yes, it's fit female figures, attired for sun exposure 8). A few recent posts are out of place -- nothing to do w/ SUP.. no paddle, no board, no nada. At the same time, google-image Alana Blanchard and tell me what's going on there?? Starboard doesn't post videos of Ms. Baxter wearing ski pants. Reef is selling more than sandals. And a female Zoner self-posted a vid recently -- she was ripping it up, in small swim attire. I was not offended.
(I am concerned about TallDude's new avatar ???)
I'm not concerned whether the HC thread gets re-bumped every few weeks.
Am too busy worrying about flying fish who DW on inflatables, and the retirement of seals who attack sharks who attack us.
it was pretty big and somewhat lumpy and gnarly.NEPlay, between the BananaBunker and Pono's self-professed fear of genitalia, the imagery you've just conjured up is WAY out of line. ;D
Post by: SUPcheat on April 22, 2015, 04:02:16 PM
I certainly understand why this "hot chicks" thing doesn't go both ways. I love to see a beautiful woman in a tiny bikini (though at 68 I feel like a dog thinking about chasing a car) but a guy in a budgie smuggler makes me gag. Even a fit one, though most guys wearing speedos are not.
https://youtu.be/rl6SpFVJoUA
Post by: mittenkitten on April 22, 2015, 05:34:07 PM
Here in Michigan I'd venture to say that at least half of the SUPers here are women. Every year more female friends and acquaintances ask me about buying a board and getting into the sport, so there is no shortage of interest on the part of women. I think one of the biggest issues they have is commitment... for some reason investing $1000 plus into a sport seems to be an issue - even for those with the money to do so. (I, on the other hand, have no problem blowing my entire tax refund on a board. Or two.) I'm not sure why this is - until now I haven't given it much thought but may be a thought worth exploring.
The HC thread? I personally couldn't care less, but thats me. I'm not interested in it so I don't peruse it. I don't find it insulting or demeaning. Just seems like a typical dude thing. If there were enough ladies here I may have very well started a Hot Dudes thread. (No this would not include guys in speedos. Gross. Just gross.)
I've often felt that it might be cool to have a "Women in SUP" type thread - community, girl power and all that. I've found many women often feel uncomfortable in spaces (weather physical or on the internet) primarily occupied by men. I'm one of a handful of women at my gym who works out in the free weight section. Anyone else I try to get in there states that they feel intimidated or scared. I'd venture to guess they feel the same way about other primarily dude inhabited spaces.
As far as Tall Dudes' comments about what would get women into SUP? I like lifting heavy sh*t, Starbucks blows and I'm not into yoga - so yeah, none of that BS would work on me. I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt and hope you don't think we're all weakling, yogi airheads that only want to paddle with our BFF and utilize some snazzy snap n' go rack system. Sadly I can see where that stereotype would come from, so while I my immediate reaction was to jump down your throat I'll just try to remind you we're not all like "that", especially those of us truly passionate about the sport.
Post by: surf4food on April 22, 2015, 06:01:49 PM
Post by: TallDude on April 22, 2015, 06:27:05 PM
As one of the few women, and under 40, on the Zone, I'll weigh in!
As far as Tall Dudes' comments about what would get women into SUP? I like lifting heavy sh*t, Starbucks blows and I'm not into yoga - so yeah, none of that BS would work on me. I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt and hope you don't think we're all weakling, yogi airheads that only want to paddle with our BFF and utilize some snazzy snap n' go rack system. Sadly I can see where that stereotype would come from, so while I my immediate reaction was to jump down your throat I'll just try to remind you we're not all like "that", especially those of us truly passionate about the sport.
I'm glad you didn't jump down my throat. I've been married 26 yrs, so I know where my place is. My list is actually the most common negative comments (excuses) I hear from women, as to why they don't get into SUP (or Mountain biking). They love it when I lug 3 or 4 of my boards and paddles down to the (flat water) beach so they can take them out at their leisure. The women who I paddle with either surfing or racing are good friends. I've been paddling with them for years. Like you say, the group is kind of the same group. Occasionally a new comer, but most are just outdoors kind of people. Some are past and present surfers, some have outrigger back grounds, some are lifeguards, some are just competitive people. Not too many soccer moms, mall dwellers, or Kardashian lovers. They are what the list was all about. Just my observation, but I think they are the majority of never to be zoners.
Post by: mittenkitten on April 22, 2015, 07:13:43 PM
^^Interesting perspective. Although I don't do yoga myself I never thought of it as some girly thing even if most of the participants are women. One of my neighbors is a yoga instructor and also trains from MMA. Plus many dudes I know do yoga. Maybe I live in a yuppie bubble from Hell.
I agree - yoga is for men and women alike, and I give props to those that are truly into it. I think TallDude and myself were thinking more of the type of women that are only into "yoga" so they can buy expensive color coordinated yoga clothes and commune with their girlfriends as opposed to actually being really involved in the practice.
Quote
Not too many soccer moms, mall dwellers, or Kardashian lovers. They are what the list was all about. Just my observation, but I think they are the majority of never to be zoners.
Agreed. I figured you were referring more to these types. As a female, I just wish there were more of us like the women you discuss knowing and less of the Kardashian lovers. They give us as a gender a bad name. Maybe I've replaced shoes and make-up with bikinis and neoprene, but at least I like to use my brain, challenge my body and get outdoors. No doubt there are larger societal strings still pulling women to be Kardashian-esque automatons - it just makes me sad.
Post by: PonoBill on April 22, 2015, 07:38:31 PM
I admire the real yoga practitioners. For that matter, I admire a well filled pair of LuLu Lemons pants. But Laird is a serious yoga dude, as is Gerry Lopez. When I seize up totally I go do a few sessions, but it takes a lot of time, it's boring as hell--though the women tend to be easy on the eyes--and it's VERY hard for me to do. Downward Dog is NOT a rest pose for me.
Post by: PonoBill on April 22, 2015, 07:49:18 PM
Not to call out Pono but if its true that men here gag if they are confronted with male genitals then the sport has bigger problems.
Na, it's just me. Not so much the package, but all the stuff that surrounds it. If I saw myself in a Speedo I'd be running for a bucket.
Now that I think of it, it's mostly an association with some particular incidents, some stretching back forty years, but some just recently. I bet some people here remember the soft fuzzy hairy euro guy that SUP surfed Kanaha (badly) last November in a speedo. He was very pleased with himself and his opportunity to display whatever it was he was displaying. Oh, the horror. And then there was the really weird guy two years ago strutting around various Maui beaches in white speedo with suspicious tan blotches all over it. Looking at him was like seeing a possum squashed by the side of the road. You had to look a second time, but you spend a long time wishing you hadn't.
Now you share those mental pictures, if somewhat less vividly. You're welcome.
Post by: SUPcheat on April 22, 2015, 08:09:34 PM
All the years I spent at the gym just jogging and lifting weights makes me feel kind of idiotic now that I am doing something that actually requires me to put my body in balance and motion.
I remember many years ago talking to a pro baseball player on the Oakland A's who was a friend of a friend whose exercise coaches were actually recommending to them the girlie stuff like jazzercise and yoga. Some of the so called female exercises are pretty pragmatic as far as getting you in motion and balance are concerned.
I have also recently discovered elastics, which allow graduated forces without reference to gravity. I have been "combing out" my shoulder muscles before going out or when sore, and it seems miraculous how they make pain go away and work a myriad of small fibers with gradual but non injurious forces.
There was a skinny hippie guy who used to go out SUP surf with a speedo around Privates when I first started going out on the ocean. Dude was thin and ripped, and looked like he was born in it, he did not look bad.
It is kind of like European sports cars. If you don't look like a thin, well dressed Italian count, the cars can scream midlife crisis.
Post by: supthecreek on April 22, 2015, 08:19:11 PM
Women are more into the flat-water, but a few are venturing into the surf.
Today, one of my female proner buddies, just announced she got a new Cannibal Surf SUP and she is stoked!
She charges in the heavies all winter, so I can't wait to see her in the line-up on her new SUP
More than half todays SUP crew also surf prone.
One woman just came back from surfing Costa Rica all winter and said she was considering a SUP as well.
I have mentored 3 other surfers who made the change to SUP this winter.
Lastly, the SUP surf age is dropping here, with more good surfers in their 40's taking up the paddle.
The state of SUP around here is growing, getting younger and attracting more women.
OK.... my take on the HC thread:
The hot chicks thread is baffling... it feels adolescent to me. There is unlimited access to whatever on the interweb... so it's not like I need a source of "hot Babe" pics.
I think the Zone would be a better place without it..... because it lowers our net worth.
I did post on it one time....to give kudos for a fantastic video of a woman in a full wetsuit, ripping waves on a short SUP. To me that is as hot as it gets ;)
Says something, that the "State of our Sport" thread has raised the HC thread to center stage. It's a sign.....
onward and upward
I took this picture of the SUP crew, this morning... plus two women are rippers on prone. One is the new SUP owner and the other has tried it, and has an open mind to it.
The Insert is the new SUP convert ripping last week on her LB :)
I'd say we're doing pretty well!
Post by: PonoBill on April 22, 2015, 08:26:18 PM
I'm still waiting for the mantle of maturity to fall on my shoulders. Not there yet. Maybe when it shows up I'll take up golf.
I don't speak for anyone but myself, but I certainly don't feel any kind of lust from looking at the pictures in the Hot Chicks thread. I appreciate the beauty and grace of athletic women. What I appreciate most is the same kind of thing, regardless of how skimpy the bikini.
Post by: SUPcheat on April 22, 2015, 08:41:37 PM
Post by: spookini on April 22, 2015, 09:21:50 PM
a bunch of old men leering over girlsThat comment is offensive to leering old men! Redd Foxx on being called a dirty old man: "I was a dirty young man, too. And when I'm dead, I'll be a dirty dead man." I'll stop looking when I'm dead..
Besides if we take away the HC thread, what next? It'll be open season on life's simple pleasures. Like the Lululemon catalog Pono intercepts before his wife can go through the mail. ;D ;D
Post by: lucabrasi on April 23, 2015, 03:26:46 AM
Post by: Admin on April 23, 2015, 04:44:18 AM
now I have to look up lululemon.
See you back here in a few months. Be careful not to lust while you are there. Just admire the forms and move along.
Post by: spookini on April 23, 2015, 05:20:38 AM
now I have to look up lululemon.You know lululemon. You just don't know you know lululemon.
Back to the original topic, I think SUP is barely past early adopter phase here in the NewEngland area. Many ppl are aware of it in some form, and thinking they'd like to try it now. But most have not tried it yet. Kids seem to think it's cool, women seem to think it's cool. Men.. not sure yet. I talked to one guy who said it looked "gay" and wouldn't you rather just kayak? ::)
When I think of a fad, I think of NordicTrak...big, bulky, and not much fun, but they sold like crazy. SUP is big and bulky -- but at least it's fun. Starboard has 31 different 'flatables in their 2015 lineup. Overkill, but they're probably betting that removing the big/bulky objection will help sell a lot of boards to folks on the right of the adoption curve.
Post by: raf on April 23, 2015, 07:17:52 AM
As one of the few women, and under 40, on the Zone, I'll weigh in!
I've found many women often feel uncomfortable in spaces (weather physical or on the internet) primarily occupied by men.
That's a good observation. And why wouldn't they feel uncomfortable? "I'm looking for tips on what board to buy and stumble on a thread dedicated to rushing blood into a bunch of guys' flagging penises. What fun!" :P Anyhow, as Admin noted, its non-negotiable. Thats too bad because it does nothing to elevate the zone (queue the puns...) and potentially alienates half your audience right off the bat. As a business owner, thats not something I would look to do in my shop.
Post by: spookini on April 23, 2015, 08:06:41 AM
Then guys like myself will log on, peruse the photos, and be labeled as leering old men. But at least no one will feel alienated anymore. :D
Post by: Off-Shore on April 23, 2015, 08:44:44 AM
Post by: PonoBill on April 23, 2015, 08:55:36 AM
At the far end of the discussion is the simple truth that anyone can create a forum if they want more control over what people see and do. And then see if you can find anyone to come.
People hang out in place like this because they like the people and the discussions. If they don't, they don't. Wanting the place to be different in some particular aspect says more about you than it does about the forum.
Post by: spookini on April 23, 2015, 09:22:11 AM
the frequent users who will jump in if there is a feeling that someone is being abused.Jump in? More like pile on ;)
Starboard has 3 dedicated yoga boards this year. I guess downward dog likes to run in packs. Included is a "yoga crossover" board. I have no idea what that is. Perhaps it's for the female paddler who needs to make a quick escape from the drooling old men in her SUP yoga class. This photo is featured on Starboard's SUP yoga page, BTW.
Post by: TN_SUP on April 23, 2015, 11:32:55 AM
THIS IS Different from my imaginary childhood friends, right?
Post by: TallDude on April 23, 2015, 12:28:15 PM
Guy's look at other guys they don't know, to either admire or be jealous of the other guys material positions and/ or how often and where that guy gets to play.
That girl above is in such good shape, I think it just intimidates women that are insecure. It might have an adverse effect on sales. Maybe a yoga hack, soccer mom in less than great shape, doing some basic yoga move on the board would appeal to the non-paddling wanna be women?
Guy's see another guy in great shape, and they wonder what kind of paddleboard he has and where he bought it.
I did a search for fat, over weight men on standup paddleboards. Pretty much nodda. Joe Blair's name and picture popped up here and there ::) I think Joe's really in pretty good shape.
Post by: stoneaxe on April 23, 2015, 12:45:18 PM
TD....glad you didn't get pictures of me in your search....not that it doesn't apply.
Post by: pdxmike on April 23, 2015, 01:40:44 PM
But I still see lower purses for women (I know there are some justifications for that), fast women getting left behind by slower men drafting in a train the rules prohibit the women from joining, and women relegated to slower 12-6 boards that slow them down and penalize their lack of height and narrower shoulders by distorting their strokes (which ironically doesn't happen nearly as badly with most men on 12-6s).
I was just reading about the Boston Marathon. Marathon participation now is about equally split among men and women, but it wasn't long ago women were banned from running at Boston. I also just read about Katie Ledecky tying Michael Phelps in the 400 free at a meet. Granted he's gone faster, but so has she, and after all he is the greatest swimmer of all time. Yet there's still no 1500m free for women in the Olympics, which is looking ridiculous now. And in both distance running and swimming, like SUP, women have some characteristics that allow them to compete much more closely with men than is true for strength sports. Those to me are good models for SUP racing as far as genders are concerned, and good for predicting where SUP racing may be headed.
So to me, the HC thread in the big picture isn't that important even if it's as bad as some people think (I don't). And I can (and hope to) see the day when people think back to the days where women can't draft with men (or vice versa) the way they think back disbelievingly about how women were banned from the Boston Marathon, and had no Olympic marathon until the 1980s.
Post by: esskay1000 on April 23, 2015, 01:53:29 PM
My Nostrodamus capabilities are weak with outdoor activities, I wish I could have predicted the downfall of rollerblading and the rise of fatbikes, but my guess is that SUP will keep growing, mostly flatwater and inland, and then shrink to a solid core who are really dedicated to it. Similar to what we've seen with whitewater kayaking. I know I'll never stop, so I'll be a card-carrying member of that core
Post by: SUPcheat on April 23, 2015, 04:41:57 PM
I belong on a professional committee, all men. We tried for literally 20 years to get women professionals to participate. We got one woman who comes every year or two, bosses everybody around, tells them how the committee should operate, offers to bring cookies next time, then doesn't show up for a year or two again when she feels the need to boss the committee around.
Guess what, we don't give a rat's ass anymore if women are on the committee.
Post by: stoneaxe on April 23, 2015, 05:16:52 PM
The zone has for the most part been a guys club but only because that was the largest demographic of SUP. I'd like nothing more than to see a whole bunch of our sisters to join in. Life is simply far more pleasurable with them around. They should put up a hot guys thread, join the conversation, have a laugh, and share the stoke. I miss hearing more women's perspectives on things here. There was a time when there was far more participation as a percentage of posts on the zone, in the early days noworries and chan were the only women here but they talked a lot, and had interesting things to say.
I married my wife because she is a strong, determined, smart, self-confident woman. She would roll her eyes at how stupid silly guys can be over a pair of breasts but laugh at the thought of it being offensive.
I'd like nothing more than equality, as much as equality is possible anyway. The sexes are different, each with its strengths and weaknesses. I'd like to see absolute equality in rights and such obviously but we can't legislate human nature. We raised two daughters to be as self-reliant as their mother. I never wanted them to have to rely on some guy. Most of the guys I know are schmucks.
Post by: PonoBill on April 23, 2015, 05:24:29 PM
Post by: pdxmike on April 23, 2015, 05:31:04 PM
Post by: stoneaxe on April 23, 2015, 06:00:49 PM
Post by: lucabrasi on April 23, 2015, 06:10:36 PM
.......... All those magazines in the grocery store checkout line with half naked women on the cover and inside - most are women's magazines and purchased almost solely by women. Some issues of Cosmo are practically porn, but it's women buying it and looking at scantily clad women in the magazine. As this article points out, men like looking at hot, half-naked women, and women do too. Let's face it, women are beautiful and fun to look at, and men smell.I didn't click on the article here yet..... but I will look at the magazines in the checkout and just a little louder and in my best golden pipes sarcastic or deadpan baritone recite the "headlines". I got to say "SEX, SEX, SEX" the other day. Actually it is really one of the tamer ones if you think about the crap right there as you are getting ready to pay for the stuff that keeps you alive that EVERYONE passes by. We have no choice but to stand in front of it. "3 ways you can..., 5 best positions for....., 4 things to do to..., blah, blah, blah........... " Lot's of stuff right there I can't or wouldn't say out loud but sifting through it you can find one or a few every time if you look around and no little kids are in line. There is usually something even if little kids...... Pick up the magazine, make a little show of it and say "Natalie Woods Diary" in golden pipes baritone game show announcre voice. It still conveys the absurdity of our world.
http://www.theatlantic.com/sexes/archive/2013/03/womens-magazines-objectify-women-just-as-much-as-mens-magazines-do/274330/ (http://www.theatlantic.com/sexes/archive/2013/03/womens-magazines-objectify-women-just-as-much-as-mens-magazines-do/274330/)
It's ok to flaunt where EVERYONE passes by? How many times have you squirmed with your youngster with some fool commercial or headline that is out there? Am I some old fogey cuz I find it uncomfortable to watch a cialis commercial with my kids in the room? ............but please apologize for the instant replay or live mic picking up fudge in the heat of the moment.
HC thread? Really?
After months/years of reading your posts and interacting, I feel like I know several of you and find myself talking outloud about you to others - that's when the wife buts in and says "you talk like you know these people but you never even met them!"Depends on the friend.
Ok, I popped in lululemon. Looks like Athleta......but this was the second or third choice or top news search.
http://www.businessinsider.com/lululemons-anti-ball-crushing-pants-2015-4
Lot's of boards on the tops of cars............
Post by: spookini on April 23, 2015, 07:40:56 PM
One group trying to figure out what would attract another group is what led to the PT Cruiser.But it holds all my gear.
Post by: pdxmike on April 23, 2015, 09:20:19 PM
The standupzone equivalent would be to change things so that not only were current guys alienated, so were the women that are already here. Not that I see that happening...
Post by: blueplanetsurf on April 25, 2015, 04:28:19 AM
The second chart shows demographics, I am surprised that only about 20% of views are female, like others have said, looking at sales and demographics on the water it seems closer to 50/50.
Post by: spookini on April 25, 2015, 04:55:02 AM
I am surprised that only about 20% of views are femalePerhaps b/c it's views since the beginning of time? And only recently swung toward 50/50.
the freak spike in November 2014 was when we posted the Miss Hawaii SUP event video.
So it's now been proven: most of us DO enjoy looking at hot chicks on paddleboards. ;D
Apparently, many many (many) times ???
Post by: Tom on April 25, 2015, 08:12:42 AM
Post by: pdxmike on April 25, 2015, 11:08:12 AM
hey luca, I ,d like to see some anti-ball crushing wetsuitsTom--this one looks pretty loose: http://www.spoon-tamago.com/2015/04/24/quicksilver-japan-develops-business-suit-wetsuits-for-the-board-room-or-the-beach/ plus you can wear it to work. Not totally a thread hijack because it shows how a company has made a wetsuit men can wear to work, but haven't come up with one for women yet.
Post by: SUPcheat on April 25, 2015, 11:12:27 AM
hey luca, I ,d like to see some anti-ball crushing wetsuitsTom--this one looks pretty loose: http://www.spoon-tamago.com/2015/04/24/quicksilver-japan-develops-business-suit-wetsuits-for-the-board-room-or-the-beach/ plus you can wear it to work. Not totally a thread hijack because it shows how a company has made a wetsuit men can wear to work, but haven't come up with one for women yet.
Things that look good on thin, svelte Asians have a tendency to look quite different on lumpy Caucasians.
Post by: pdxmike on April 25, 2015, 11:30:54 AM
Yes, I'm sure that'd be the focus of the comments if you showed up at work in one of those--"Hey, is that a 46L? You should have got the 48R". That and "What's that smell?"hey luca, I ,d like to see some anti-ball crushing wetsuitsTom--this one looks pretty loose: http://www.spoon-tamago.com/2015/04/24/quicksilver-japan-develops-business-suit-wetsuits-for-the-board-room-or-the-beach/ (http://www.spoon-tamago.com/2015/04/24/quicksilver-japan-develops-business-suit-wetsuits-for-the-board-room-or-the-beach/) plus you can wear it to work. Not totally a thread hijack because it shows how a company has made a wetsuit men can wear to work, but haven't come up with one for women yet.
Things that look good on thin, svelte Asians have a tendency to look quite different on lumpy Caucasians.
Post by: Badger on April 25, 2015, 11:32:28 AM
hey luca, I ,d like to see some anti-ball crushing wetsuitsTom--this one looks pretty loose: http://www.spoon-tamago.com/2015/04/24/quicksilver-japan-develops-business-suit-wetsuits-for-the-board-room-or-the-beach/ plus you can wear it to work. Not totally a thread hijack because it shows how a company has made a wetsuit men can wear to work, but haven't come up with one for women yet.
Wow, someone spent a lot of time and money working on a design that will never sell.
Business must be good.
Post by: pdxmike on April 25, 2015, 11:38:09 AM
It also could be a site like this just may not be that attractive to women. Even though women must be a huge percentage of first board buyers, they may not be that likely to come here to read board reviews or advice. But it's not like women don't do that with other topics. I bet a huge percentage of people researching products on houzz or amazon (at least some product categories) are women. And it's not like women don't use computers--facebook must be at least half women users, and pinterest almost entirely women. So it's not like the old joke about when iTunes started up, it took three years before they sold a country song--not because nobody liked country, but because nobody who liked it had a computer or internet.
Maybe if standupzone wanted to attract more women, it should send out a catalog in the mail now and then. Those only go to women, and the websites associated with them are used 99% by women. That's what got my mom to use the internet--being able to read product reviews on websites of companies that send her catalogs. Guys do buy some products those companies sell, so the reason almost all their website viewers are women has to be the catalogs.
Post by: blueplanetsurf on April 25, 2015, 04:07:41 PM
I am surprised that only about 20% of views are femalePerhaps b/c it's views since the beginning of time? And only recently swung toward 50/50.
No it's been pretty consistent, about 80% male viewers on average.
We have one video on SUP yoga, which has the highest percentage of female viewers but even for that it's about 50/50.
Maybe it's that youtube has a predominantly male audience?
Post by: PonoBill on April 25, 2015, 06:46:09 PM
(http://www.ponostyle.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/streetfash.jpg)
(http://www.ponostyle.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/streetfash2.jpg)
(http://www.ponostyle.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/streetfash3.jpg)
Post by: pdxmike on April 25, 2015, 07:10:49 PM
Post by: PonoBill on April 25, 2015, 08:17:57 PM
I'm sure every old windsurfer remembers the stories of guys embracing windsurfing as a cultural icon when it was hot all over the world. Didn't really sail them, just had them on the rack. I heard stories of people with boards through bolted to the rack to prevent theft.
Post by: SUPcheat on April 25, 2015, 10:14:01 PM
Post by: TallDude on April 25, 2015, 10:41:12 PM
Post by: SUPcheat on April 25, 2015, 10:44:00 PM
Post by: TallDude on April 26, 2015, 09:58:33 PM
BOP then
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSPNxJJ2B1w
BOP now
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpdWwPqwau4
We've come a long way! Too bad we don't know where we're going.
Post by: SUPcheat on April 26, 2015, 11:46:23 PM
Post by: feet on April 27, 2015, 02:54:01 AM
Am I a bad person for finding the BOP carnage entertaining?
No, it simply means youre in the 99%. Somebody somewhere did the stats, and only 1% of BOP viewers didn't enjoy the carnage.
But seriously, it is really fun to watch and it would really be great for TV. Golf is an okay game to play in person, but I cannot understand how people can watch it on TV. In comparison, BOP style races are entertaining and exciting. I mean, if we consider how we broadcast things like bowling, cycling, marathons, nascar, etc.; SUP racing is so much more fun to watch. I'd be shocked if this doesn't make the ABC/NBC/CBS saturday afternoon summer sports programming within a year or two.
Post by: TallDude on April 27, 2015, 06:59:20 AM
Post by: spookini on April 27, 2015, 08:50:02 AM
SUP? For a non-paddler, I imagine it'd be boring as hell to watch -- less exciting than Olympic rowing or canoe'ing. Except for the carnage part. Crashes make everything more interesting.
Post by: surf4food on April 27, 2015, 11:22:08 AM
So does expanded viewership of such events grow the sport, or deter the potential newbie?
I would like to think that average non SUPer viewing BOB for the first time would have the ability to differentiate crashes and carnage at BOB from just going out for a flat water paddle session. Plus airing it in such a way to cut to scenes of people cruising around in a calm lake and showing the diversity of the sport I think would spark interest.
Post by: lucabrasi on April 27, 2015, 11:40:26 AM
Being a participant makes any sport more interesting to watch. Golf is very watch-able, if you golf. Cycling is fascinating to watch -- if you know what's going on.
SUP? For a non-paddler, I imagine it'd be boring as hell to watch -- less exciting than Olympic rowing or canoe'ing. Except for the carnage part. Crashes make everything more interesting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0NDjR9C28o
I agree tho I do find curling somewhat fascinating every four years without carnage and I have never curled anything.
Post by: PonoBill on April 27, 2015, 12:16:38 PM
I've been in every BOP since the first one, and Salt Creek was right up there with the best of them. Don't let the carnage outtakes keep you from doing it.
I practiced surfing my 12' 2" every day for the week before, and had the re-entry down pretty well, and then I chickened out on the surf class because it got huge--everyone was flocking to it for obvious reasons, and I knew the 14 and 12'6" boards would still be swilling around in the break when they launched last, so I switched to my 17 bullet, which was a good choice for the sprint since they started us first, in a good lull, not so good in the distance, when the announcing goobers stalled the launch and chucked us into a set. Surfing my 17 in was a little different than the 12', but I didn't have too bad a time of it either day.
Do it. It's SO much fun. Geez, two more and I'll be in 70+ group. That's a sobering thought.
Post by: surfcowboy on May 03, 2015, 09:03:47 AM
I gotta say, more women and more focus on things to attract women on the land couldn't have hurt them. My wife loved the event but completely for the hang and to watch.
Lots of disposable income and they influence a ton of purchases for a household, women are good friends for an industry to have.
I live in LA, all the girls that surf here wear wetsuits so if you want to show women accurately to me, put them in a 4/3 cause that's how I see them most often.
Since this thread has really gone into "the state of the zone" I'll add my thoughts. This is an old boy's club and from its design/look to its content, the Zone is really not aiming for a younger and more female crowd. (This is where we get into my opinions and know that I'm not attacking, just offering thoughts. No malice or harsh criticism meant, I love this forum as most can tell from my activity.)
Admin, a software update and UI pass might not be a bad thing to consider but please be careful, do it well with a good company. (And TEST on a beta site before migrating!!!) Even the old dog swaylocks got a new look this year. (And yeah, it was a nightmare but at least it looks like 2008 over there instead of Netscape 1996.) in the age of Facebook people expect a clean easy to use UI. The content will follow, I'll bet. I'd be happy to advise and you have enough solid tech folks on here that this place could get pretty great.
If not I'll still be here and I'll post media as I can but making that all easier would skyrocket pics and video posts I'll bet.
Maybe we could start a friendly thread on proposed features and folks could help collect the good ones.
I'll start. Declare officially supported photo sharing sites that work seamlessly with the Zone. Do the same with video and make sure that the link codes are compatible so that it's effortless to share media here. I have given up on posting pics at times due to the hassles and I own a software development company and have used and done light web programming for over 15 years. I hate to think what happens to casual users who try.
I'm willing to be on the advisory board, this site has been a lot of fun for me over the years. I want it to grow and flourish.
Post by: Admin on May 03, 2015, 09:40:09 AM
Admin, a software update and UI pass might not be a bad thing to consider but please be careful, do it well with a good company. (And TEST on a beta site before migrating!!!)
Hi SC
We are running the current version of SMF with the Default theme. The vast majority of forum sites run on one of 3 (fairly equal) forum platforms. If anyone wanted to attempt write code to compete with the years of development, complexities and ecosystems that are reflected in each of those software lines it would cost many millions. The existing forum lines are all free. :)
We use the Default theme which, although it is quite basic looking, auto updates without breaking when the SMF base code is updated (which happens frequently). We could choose a custom theme (skin) like Swaylocks has but that means that every plug in (the Zone uses 85 plug ins) can break at each update. Even without a custom skin a few break with every update.
I would like to see a SMF default theme go to a responsive design and that is rumored to be in the works. Not sure of an ETA though.
The way video and photos (and most other behaviors) on forum sites are handled are by 3rd party mods or plug ins. These are written by developer teams and offered for either free or for sale to forum owners. The ones that we use are pretty well the defacto standards.
Please let me know what issues you are having posting photos or videos and I will be happy to troubleshoot. Video should be as simple as pasting an URL from any major site into your post. Photos can either be embedded (from any site) or uploaded via the attachments option below the posting window.
Post by: PonoBill on May 03, 2015, 11:47:10 AM
I think the underlying notion of this forum being more interesting to women if it underwent some kind if spring cleaning is fundamentally flawed. If I had any rule for marketing, it is that for it to be effective it much have razor-sharp focus and purpose. Anything less is just the pink board syndrome. Once a site has evolved as long as this one has, any attempt to change the focus is more likely to lose ground than gain. Its just applying guesswork and belief insted of data and experience.
Yeah, I know, facebook has a timeline. They tweak the UI frequently. Lots of people on Facebook therefore...
If you really think the BOP could have been saved or even helped by making some effort to attract more women, then I'm at a loss as to what more I could say other than: Nah.
Post by: lucabrasi on May 03, 2015, 12:09:42 PM
If you really think the BOP could have been saved or even helped by making some effort to attract more women, then I'm at a loss as to what more I could say other than: Nah.Maybe could say, Hey baby.........wanna BOP?
Post by: stoneaxe on May 03, 2015, 12:20:40 PM
The zone being more friendly to women simply means treating them as equals, something I've always done anyway.
Post by: lucabrasi on May 03, 2015, 01:32:13 PM
Since this thread has really gone into "the state of the zone" I'll add my thoughts.I have stumbled across many, many forums searching out whatever.....how to do something, how to fix something, etc. Tahoe, Suburban, etc. dishwasher, golf, club building, fishing, carp fishing, fly fishing, muskie fishing, trout fishing, sup, kayak, ski, xc ski, Giants, Niners, etc, etc, etc. (politics or guns? I am sure I have but by golly, can't think of an exact instance off the top of my head). For the most part all have the same.....basic feel when you fall into the middle of whatever you have searched out. Kind of look the same, click here, click that.....categories, search more here for this or that. Some were to get a chore done. Some searching out gear or advice or something of the like. I am sure I was searching out something like that when I found this place. Some have to do with things I like. Things I like alot. Never have stuck around another one except a fishing one and I don't follow or post like here. It is regional and that is really probably the only reason I am there still and darn if it isn't the hardest place to post a picture. Full of bloat. It is a national one splintered off into states and so much other stuff it is pretty bloaty and it just doesn't have the "feel" of this place. Closest one I can think of to this place is tgr as far as.........returnable attraction but that's just me and I think it has to do with the members more than anything of attracting and keeping people. I am sure many people stumbled through here for very similar reasons as I did and kept coming back.
Post by: surfcowboy on May 03, 2015, 07:30:23 PM
Also remember that I am very likely wrong. ;)
That said, I know a lot about framework software, my company makes one. And yes, you'll kill yourself trying to code it alone. (Ours is aimed at corporate video, not forums but I know what you can and can't do so I'm not just a hater sitting on the sidelines saying "you oughta".) Small customizations can be made but I'm sure you keep up on the dev. We moved to a responsive design last year and it's so much nicer for all users. I trust that you'll stay on it, but keep on the primary devs about the media stuff, it's live or die to a group.
And yes, we come here for the users and info. Thanks for giving us a place and keeping it sane. Some other forums have devolved to where it's hard and painful to participate.
It's also nice to give my ad revenue to a small business instead of Facebook and Google making every dollar online. Peace
Post by: headmount on May 03, 2015, 09:44:56 PM
The zone being more friendly to women simply means treating them as equals, something I've always done anyway.
I treat most of them as superiors because they pretty much rule over us guys. Women's intuition vs men's wishful thinking. Guess which one is usually right.
Post by: Admin on May 04, 2015, 03:51:18 AM
First, you guys got my opinion, and kudos to the admin for taking what I said graciously. I know it's a mostly thankless job.
Also remember that I am very likely wrong. ;)
That said, I know a lot about framework software, my company makes one. And yes, you'll kill yourself trying to code it alone. (Ours is aimed at corporate video, not forums but I know what you can and can't do so I'm not just a hater sitting on the sidelines saying "you oughta".) Small customizations can be made but I'm sure you keep up on the dev. We moved to a responsive design last year and it's so much nicer for all users. I trust that you'll stay on it, but keep on the primary devs about the media stuff, it's live or die to a group.
Hi SC, No offense taken at all. I appreciate the concern.
Responsive is in Beta for the SMF platform and default theme that we use in the upcoming 2.1 version. Here is a link. You might recognize the forum theme :) http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=530233.msg3764642#msg3764642
I am hopeful that this happens on time but these can go long so I want to set low expectations. We should see a hugely improved mobile experience when that is running. We have been transitioning to responsive on all of our sites this year and are begining the go live process on our big daddy starting this week. Wish me luck. It is always way more work it than it sounds like. Troubleshooting for 14 resolutions. Whoopee!
Basically, If you can't operate all major functions of a site with your thumb...it is a failure. Brave new world. Mobile (including tablet) is now 55% of Zone traffic.
Let me know what type of added functionality you would like to see added for media sharing. Photos (emebedded and uploaded) are part of the core. Videos are handled by a plug in. There are options available for both but this is the best combo I have found.
Post by: yugi on May 04, 2015, 05:30:09 AM
A forum isn’t a magazine. the content is what the members choose to post. Discussions that turn to issues like this always wind up in the same place—with someone wanting to control what other people do. I find that much more abhorrent than some relatively innocent pictures (Does anyone really believe people are getting stiffys over these????).
At the far end of the discussion is the simple truth that anyone can create a forum if they want more control over what people see and do. And then see if you can find anyone to come.
People hang out in place like this because they like the people and the discussions. If they don’t, they don’t. Wanting the place to be different in some particular aspect says more about you than it does about the forum.
word. Control is way overrated.
…
Now that I think of it, it’s mostly an association with some particular incidents, some stretching back forty years, but some just recently. I bet some people here remember the soft fuzzy hairy euro guy that SUP surfed Kanaha (badly) last November in a speedo. He was very pleased with himself and his opportunity to display whatever it was he was displaying. Oh, the horror. And then there was the really weird guy two years ago strutting around various Maui beaches in white speedo with suspicious tan blotches all over it. Looking at him was like seeing a possum squashed by the side of the road. You had to look a second time, but you spend a long time wishing you hadn’t.
…
hahaha. Gotta love forums. Discussion of the “State of the sport” quickly went to HotBabes and then rapidly declined into talk about Banana Hammocks.
So, back to the “State of Sport 2015”: top athletes always set the trend. Looks like Travis Grant is launching a Speedo trend. Probably vastly more efficient upwind. So better shape up and get ready to go speedo shopping. (jump to 2:00 for the Speedo paddling)
https://vimeo.com/105877040
Post by: stoneaxe on May 04, 2015, 07:10:32 AM
Post by: spookini on May 04, 2015, 08:18:45 AM
...traumatic memories.Mighta been no picnic for them either, Stoney... ;D
Post by: stoneaxe on May 04, 2015, 09:55:09 AM
Post by: spookini on May 04, 2015, 11:32:47 AM
Post by: SUPcheat on May 04, 2015, 03:56:57 PM
Post by: stoneaxe on May 04, 2015, 05:57:30 PM
It's actually a slightly more bizarre story than it even sounds..... :o
Speaking of the state of the sport and somewhat loosely linked to the other discussions here....I wonder if they have naked SUP at Hedonism? The poster for the aforementioned Jamaican vacation.
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_T2wyuqI_pxE/TUYYo37gpKI/AAAAAAAACXU/Aqj3bRcKEKU/s640/Old+ad+3.jpg)
Post by: spirit4earth on May 19, 2015, 02:26:33 PM
I'm all about the big wave talk, shark talk, gear talk, etc, but if the forum had more threads about inland paddling that were interesting, more women would show up.
Does this forum advertise? Before anyone can post, they need to know it's here.
Post by: spirit4earth on May 19, 2015, 02:32:18 PM
In Portland, there seems to be huge participation among women. I get asked about how to get started paddling by way more women than men. There's a standup facebook page here-- Stand Up Portland--don't know the actual numbers breakdown, but women are at least as active as men in posts, and the most common posts seem to be women organizing meetups for paddles. Otherwise, the topics are all unisex--paddlers are paddlers all with similar interests. SUPs are also now common props in catalogs for women's athletic wear--Athleta, etc. Having standup get linked with yoga seems huge for getting women involved with standup.
I recommend standupzone to new people all the time, and since so many are women it seems some growth in women here is inevitable. Not being one myself, I don't know what would make this site more attractive for women, but my guess is they'll come here for the same reasons guys do--general advice, gear reviews, etc. If there are topics of special interest to women, they'll generate them themselves. It seems most efforts to intentionally attract women to something are patronizing and horrible--the "pink board syndrome".
You're right about "pink board syndrome". The last thing I'm interested in is a bunch of girly sup gear. I'm also sure that most paddling women aren't doing yoga on their boards, so that assumption needs to go away, too. Good topics, good input and advice, tasteful appreciation------that will bring the women in. Once they know the forum exists.
Post by: spirit4earth on May 19, 2015, 02:36:02 PM
Things to improve on so women will be more likely to try SUP:
They need to make boards lighter so women can load them onto there cars easier.
The car racks need to be smarter, like secure themselves.
They need a big strap handle you can put over your shoulder.
They need to make boards wide enough to do yoga on. Not just the little miss thong size either!
They need at least one cup holder, and a spot for a towel.
They need to stay in one place while doing yoga, or in the middle of a very important conversation with a friend.
They need to come with matching rash guards and workout shorts.
They need to be shorter as to not be an issue in the Starbucks drive thru.
And the fins need to be reversible so they can be loaded on the car either way. I don't want to talk about this one anymore! ::)
No offense, but this is an example of what will NOT attract women to this forum! Or to the sport, actually. It's kind of funny, though, because you're exactly right about this particular type!
Post by: spirit4earth on May 19, 2015, 02:43:46 PM
As one of the few women, and under 40, on the Zone, I'll weigh in!
Here in Michigan I'd venture to say that at least half of the SUPers here are women. Every year more female friends and acquaintances ask me about buying a board and getting into the sport, so there is no shortage of interest on the part of women. I think one of the biggest issues they have is commitment... for some reason investing $1000 plus into a sport seems to be an issue - even for those with the money to do so. (I, on the other hand, have no problem blowing my entire tax refund on a board. Or two.) I'm not sure why this is - until now I haven't given it much thought but may be a thought worth exploring.
The HC thread? I personally couldn't care less, but thats me. I'm not interested in it so I don't peruse it. I don't find it insulting or demeaning. Just seems like a typical dude thing. If there were enough ladies here I may have very well started a Hot Dudes thread. (No this would not include guys in speedos. Gross. Just gross.)
I've often felt that it might be cool to have a "Women in SUP" type thread - community, girl power and all that. I've found many women often feel uncomfortable in spaces (weather physical or on the internet) primarily occupied by men. I'm one of a handful of women at my gym who works out in the free weight section. Anyone else I try to get in there states that they feel intimidated or scared. I'd venture to guess they feel the same way about other primarily dude inhabited spaces.
As far as Tall Dudes' comments about what would get women into SUP? I like lifting heavy sh*t, Starbucks blows and I'm not into yoga - so yeah, none of that BS would work on me. I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt and hope you don't think we're all weakling, yogi airheads that only want to paddle with our BFF and utilize some snazzy snap n' go rack system. Sadly I can see where that stereotype would come from, so while I my immediate reaction was to jump down your throat I'll just try to remind you we're not all like "that", especially those of us truly passionate about the sport.
I'm glad you weighed in-----good stuff. I've noticed that on some biking and kayaking forums, the "Women and fill-in-the-blank" threads fizzle out. I don't think
there needs to be a separate thread. That seems to emphasize exclusion rather than inclusion. Thoughts?
Post by: spirit4earth on May 19, 2015, 02:50:28 PM
I find a lot of women are very competitive and insecure about their looks. I don't know why? They are better looking than us guys.
Guy's look at other guys they don't know, to either admire or be jealous of the other guys material positions and/ or how often and where that guy gets to play.
That girl above is in such good shape, I think it just intimidates women that are insecure. It might have an adverse effect on sales. Maybe a yoga hack, soccer mom in less than great shape, doing some basic yoga move on the board would appeal to the non-paddling wanna be women?
Guy's see another guy in great shape, and they wonder what kind of paddleboard he has and where he bought it.
I did a search for fat, over weight men on standup paddleboards. Pretty much nodda. Joe Blair's name and picture popped up here and there ::) I think Joe's really in pretty good shape.
I think you've got it right! The pic Spookini posted is beautiful----she's amazing! BUT, she's not your average, or even above-average, female paddler. Too many pics like that will make the rest of us gals want to sit home and eat ice cream!
Post by: SUPcheat on May 19, 2015, 03:30:35 PM
Post by: lucabrasi on May 19, 2015, 03:37:57 PM
Something to reliably keep their hair dry. I listened to a couple of women who said they wouldn't do kayaking or Sup because they couldn't stand getting their hair wet and messy every time they went out.Already covered earlier.
Post by: SeaMe on May 19, 2015, 03:45:59 PM
Does this forum advertise? Before anyone can post, they need to know it's here.
I don't know the answer, but I don't think it really needs to. Do a search on SUP and SUZ threads are usually allover the first page of results. I don't think the lack of women here has anything to do with finding the forum.
Post by: spookini on May 19, 2015, 04:23:35 PM
The forum, though, tends to lean more towards paddle surfing, which is, I guess, more exciting than lakes and rivers.
Nah, most of us don't REALLY surf. We just like to talk smack and TELL PEOPLE we surf. :)
Fair to say most ppl on this board flatwater a fair bit, even the surfheads lucky enough to live near a break.
Post by: spirit4earth on May 19, 2015, 04:30:06 PM
The forum, though, tends to lean more towards paddle surfing, which is, I guess, more exciting than lakes and rivers.
Nah, most of us don't REALLY surf. We just like to talk smack and TELL PEOPLE we surf. :)
Fair to say most ppl on this board flatwater a fair bit, even the surfheads lucky enough to live near a break.
Ahh....I see! :))
Post by: PonoBill on May 20, 2015, 04:31:32 AM
What city is Travis Grant doing the video? Australia?
Australia is really not a city. I think it's like an island. Probably in France or something. Where they speak, like, Mexican.
Post by: lucabrasi on May 20, 2015, 04:50:12 AM
.......they speak, like, Mexican.:)
Post by: SUPcheat on May 20, 2015, 11:02:13 AM
Australia is an island, but they call it a continent to make the Australians feel better. However, after too many lagers, Australians become incontinent.
Post by: pdxmike on May 20, 2015, 11:51:05 AM
Post by: spirit4earth on May 20, 2015, 01:55:21 PM
First, you guys got my opinion, and kudos to the admin for taking what I said graciously. I know it's a mostly thankless job.
Also remember that I am very likely wrong. ;)
That said, I know a lot about framework software, my company makes one. And yes, you'll kill yourself trying to code it alone. (Ours is aimed at corporate video, not forums but I know what you can and can't do so I'm not just a hater sitting on the sidelines saying "you oughta".) Small customizations can be made but I'm sure you keep up on the dev. We moved to a responsive design last year and it's so much nicer for all users. I trust that you'll stay on it, but keep on the primary devs about the media stuff, it's live or die to a group.
Hi SC, No offense taken at all. I appreciate the concern.
Responsive is in Beta for the SMF platform and default theme that we use in the upcoming 2.1 version. Here is a link. You might recognize the forum theme :) http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=530233.msg3764642#msg3764642
I am hopeful that this happens on time but these can go long so I want to set low expectations. We should see a hugely improved mobile experience when that is running. We have been transitioning to responsive on all of our sites this year and are begining the go live process on our big daddy starting this week. Wish me luck. It is always way more work it than it sounds like. Troubleshooting for 14 resolutions. Whoopee!
Basically, If you can't operate all major functions of a site with your thumb...it is a failure. Brave new world. Mobile (including tablet) is now 55% of Zone traffic.
Let me know what type of added functionality you would like to see added for media sharing. Photos (emebedded and uploaded) are part of the core. Videos are handled by a plug in. There are options available for both but this is the best combo I have found.
I do wish there was a "thumbs up" and a "thumbs down" option for individual posts.
Post by: spookini on May 20, 2015, 02:04:23 PM
I do wish there was a "thumbs up" and a "thumbs down" option for individual posts.
Dangerous. The egos on here are fragile enough as-is!! :o :o
Post by: spirit4earth on May 20, 2015, 05:16:27 PM
I do wish there was a "thumbs up" and a "thumbs down" option for individual posts.
Dangerous. The egos on here are fragile enough as-is!! :o :o
Thumbs up! :))
Post by: Biggreen on May 20, 2015, 05:47:47 PM
I do wish there was a "thumbs up" and a "thumbs down" option for individual posts.
Dangerous. The egos on here are fragile enough as-is!! :o :o
Well it's obvious you're not referencing the male ego. I've never heard "fragile" and the "male ego" used in either the same sentence or the same context before ;D. Would be an absolute first in history...and to think it occurred on the Zone!
Post by: magentawave on June 20, 2015, 06:49:33 PM
When ever I go out in Mission Bay on a nice warm day or any other flat water spot it seems women make up at least half if not more amongst paddlers out that day. If the biggest growth is in recreational flat water paddling and based on what I see, yeah 11 percent seems low and perhaps not very accurate.
On another note, how can we get more women and also more people of both genders under 40 to post on the Zone?
Post by: clayfeeter on July 02, 2015, 05:33:27 AM
I agree with Pono Bill (I think it was) who noted that the sport continues to surge at a steady growth.. not a lot of peaks and valleys... just how anything healthy moves.. including hurricane swells (you want them to build slowly and last)
...it IS nice, as someone posted, that people now know what sup is... and also that every single one of my two 23 and 26 yr old daughters' friends want to do it!
Post by: magentawave on July 06, 2015, 05:57:20 PM
Re: the state of sup today
I agree with Pono Bill (I think it was) who noted that the sport continues to surge at a steady growth.. not a lot of peaks and valleys... just how anything healthy moves.. including hurricane swells (you want them to build slowly and last)
...it IS nice, as someone posted, that people now know what sup is... and also that every single one of my two 23 and 26 yr old daughters' friends want to do it!
Post by: PonoBill on July 06, 2015, 09:13:45 PM
Post by: southwesterly on July 06, 2015, 10:03:33 PM
Clay has done them all. Very well I might add.