Standup Zone Forum
Stand Up Paddle => Gear Talk => Topic started by: Weeble on January 26, 2015, 02:15:34 PM
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I'm 45 years old, 6' 2", and about 210lbs. Starting to do some comparissons on smaller surf SUPs. Been paddling for about 3 years now in South Florida, mainly racing & touring. I normally paddle a Bark Laird 14 and an older model Fanatic Fly 12.6 (the white one with the red stripe). SUP surfing was alway aggravating for me as I always seem to heavy for the boards I tried. Then I got a Boga Todos... a 10.2 x 33 or so. Not a lot of rocker, but I could catch small stuff, and slower rollers. The big thing was that the board at least let me start to get some footwork skills and such and built my confidence for catching little waves. However, will very little rocker it can pearl pretty easy, and it's hard to catch faster moving waves with it. I spent this past weekend surfing with out gang of paddlers and got to jump on a few boards that used to give me fits, and tried one that I wasn't even sure if I could handle. I surfed a Starboard Whopper (don't recall the details, but it's pretty short a more rocker than I have on the Todos) and had a blast on it. Then I got on a Fanatatic 9.5 Allwave and loved it. I caught more waves on that board than I ever have. I fell a bunch as well, but mainly because I was trying to push my limits on it with footwork and turns. Anyway, any bigger guys out there using the Allwave, or other similar sized boards? I liked the 9.5 length, and it seems that it's 170 liters might be about the magic number for me. I'm in Florida, so we don't the big stuff here. I'm not looking to do anything crazy, just knee to waist stuff when it actually shows up for us. Any suggestions or experiences to share would be much appreciated.
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I'm the opposite of a bigger guy, and this isn't exactly a "smaller" board, but based on PonoBill's review, this thing surfs unreal.....
http://www.ponostyle.com/foote-production-boards/
http://foote-surfboards.com/board-styles/production-sup/
I have no affiliation with these guys...just keeping an eye on what they're up to!
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i think the Whopper is 10*34, still a pretty sizable board. i used to own a board that size...great to start out with, but they're basically barges that don't turn very well. i'm just about your size, and have owned Fanatic AW's before. If you tried it and liked it, that should be all that matters. nothing is more important than your own personal demo. i think you could certainly go a bit smaller than that 9.5 AW, e.g., Starboard Hero (9*33), Simmons-shapes (great in smaller waves and you can easily go sub-9 ft), but unless you can demo those boards first, why not just get the tried-n-true?
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Search around on this site. You'll find plenty of quality commentary that's already been made to fill in the details you're looking for. Supthecreek is a bigger guy and is a fan of the Fanatic boards, so I'd start by looking at his posts and going from there.
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hey Weeble... it's kind of hard to search accurately here, so it took a while to come up with my 8'10 review.... lots of banter on it about Allwave performance, durability and such.
I think you are right on track going with the 9'5.... it will be a great transition board. Very stable, durable and really fun to surf... I was on mine 9'5 for a year and totally loved it. It is a great flat-water board as well... great for creeks and estuaries that your raceboard won't fit into.
I'll keep looking for my 9'6 review and link it.
here's the 8'10
http://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,20552.0.html
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At 235 I got 25#'s on you and I'm very comfortable on a 9'2" 150L Riviera Turbo Nugg. I think 170L is a lot. My Infinity is 10' 170L, it surfs well but it is too much volume. I haven't tried the Allwave, but I have heard great things. At your weight I would think you could be comfortable on 130-140L board. A lot depends on the shape of the board and the distribution of volume. I demoed an 8'6" 141L Infinity Phoenix, and it was more stable than my 170L board. The Simmons shape let's you go smaller than you would think.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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i think the Whopper is 10*34, still a pretty sizable board. i used to own a board that size...great to start out with, but they're basically barges that don't turn very well. demo those boards first, why not just get the tried-n-true?
Beached , I'd say your way off base on the Whopper. Have you ever surfed one? Just because it has similar dimensions to another board you surfed does not mean it will surf the same. The Whopper is pretty thinned out at the rails and although wide, is not very thick. It is 168 liters, which is not super huge. Regardless of the dimensions, the Whopper turns really nice, and I have not heard one good surfer who surfed it say it doesn't surf well. If you're a big guy, I would highly recommend the Whopper, it is a blast.
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Lots of choices these days which is great, especially at your size. I've got a couple inches and 60+lbs on you so what I think is a big guys board will differ from what you'll need. Your best bet of course is to demo but if your looking for something that will work well in smaller waves where you can get in early for a longer ride I'd look for something between 9' and 10' with thinned out rails and nose, volume under 160l with the rocker to work on shorter period waves.
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weeble.... there is a tendency around here these days to recommend shorter, thinner, less volume.
Apparently everyone is forgetting how they got to this point.
We all rode big boards and progressed smaller if we felt the urge. Some are happy with comfort and enjoy the cruise of a bigger board and have no desire to go smaller.
As a beginner on surf SUP.... take your time and go with a size that will give you the most fun and let you learn on a big enough board to make it easy.
yeah, yeah... I'll probably get slammed for saying "take the easy path" but I have always been a big fan of being on a big enough board that you can concentrate on surfing.... not balancing.
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The thing I've found with this forum is that you have to be careful getting input when it comes to SUS vs SUP. SUP flat-water, essentially the same world wide. SUS, whole nother animal. Most of the folks imploring you to "downsize" are SUSing in near perfect, enviable conditions. Ultra smooth, long period,dry hair paddle out channels etc.etc. If you are SUSing where wind chop and swell are common partners you are benefitted by looking at things more pragmatically. It would be great if folks would disclose not just what they ride, but also where, along with personal stats as well. Age and height, have a lot to with the equation beyond just weight. In the winter, I'm up in north Florida, so as we get open ocean swells, even that will effect advice compared to your location in south as you are blocked by the Bahamas' and won't get the same kind of swell. More than likely, when you get waves, you are going to get chop along with it, so stability would be paramount. Additionally, in short period, choppy mess, the ability to do a last second,180 pivot and go is a critical tool to have in the holster. Oddly with chop, the likelihood of you being able to accomplish this without falling can go DOWN with a smaller, less stable board. Larger, teardrop boards like the Starboard Whopper are perfect platforms for dealing with FL slop. Since you have height you can "leverage" that with your paddle, to get the board to do what you want when it comes to surfing the wave, so bigger won't be as much of an issue compared to some one of similar weight and shorter stature. Stability also allows you to enjoy more time on the water. With my JP Fusion I can stay out for 3-4 hours no problem in very rough conditions. It also has a place to mount a small gas grill when there's no surf. I'd make sure you are not getting the whopper "extra" 36" wide, that would be the Olivia Jensen of surfboards. From what I've read the 2015 Whopper is also reshaped to make it an even better surfer, so I'd try to get one of those if able.
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Weeble, you're displacing 96 liters with your body weight. Based on your described experience level, you're in the market for a board with between 145L and 125L. The distribution of those liters is dependent on your stability, surf experience, type of surfing you do, and the break you'll be riding most. JayInSoCal is right. We'd all sing the chorus of demo if you can. I'm partial to the SUP sports products for durability lightness and surfability, but everyone is different and everyone has access to different products.
At an optimistic 245#, I've enjoyed boards from 180L down to 140L but after trying quite a few, I've settled in on between 165 and 160L as my happy place. Demo rides help you dial those liters in, and gives your brain and balance a reference for how they should be distributed.
(and Standuped makes excellent points to consider)
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I personally love checking out all the options out there. I had a blast going through the process of ordering my SIMSUP from Kirk, and am currently on the hunt for a second board to round my quiver. I plan to demo as much as I can before buying.
Here are some other options in a similar vein-ish as the Whopper & Allwave (these often come in either production or custom):
Foote Trinity (as posted above): http://foote-surfboards.com/board-styles/production-sup/
Infinity Wide Aquatic: http://www.infinitysurf.com/sup/wide-aquatic/
SUP Sports Stoke (Wide or X-wide): http://supsports.com/standup-paddle-boards/stoke-series/
King's Super Simmons: http://www.kingspaddlesports.com/supersimmons/
Lots of other options out there too.
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+1 what Standuped and STC said, as well as what others have said about the pack rush to go smaller. I surf from South Beach to Cocoa. Started on a 10.6 C4, then went to a 9.6 Allwave, currently on a 9.1x31 Hokua. Along the way I've had occasion to use my gf's 9.3 and now 8.5 prowave and in Costa Rica we rented a 9.0 Mactavish and an 8.5 Chelu. The boards we used in CR were 130 and 96 ltr, respectively and no problem but in SoFl windchop I can't even stand on her 8.5 prowave, which is 109ltr. So far the Hokua at 150ltr has given this 5.10 200lb intermediate the happiest trade-off between work and maneuverability and it's not bad when things do clean up.
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i think the Whopper is 10*34, still a pretty sizable board. i used to own a board that size...great to start out with, but they're basically barges that don't turn very well. demo those boards first, why not just get the tried-n-true?
Beached , I'd say your way off base on the Whopper. Have you ever surfed one? Just because it has similar dimensions to another board you surfed does not mean it will surf the same. The Whopper is pretty thinned out at the rails and although wide, is not very thick. It is 168 liters, which is not super huge. Regardless of the dimensions, the Whopper turns really nice, and I have not heard one good surfer who surfed it say it doesn't surf well. If you're a big guy, I would highly recommend the Whopper, it is a blast.
yeah, i should've said 'my 10*34 was a barge...'. I haven't surfed the Whopper, just made a (dumb) assumption. A lot of folks think the Hero doesn't surf well either, and I know that's not true. i still think he can go smaller than a Whopper as his next step, but that's just IMO.
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We are generally in the same weight, height, experience ?? category. I have already decided that my downward limit is 130L and my upward limit is 160L.
I was going to keep my Vernor at 9'32.75" for a year then get as bullet proof a board as I could to go further. The Vernor is already a grizzled veteran at 8 months. I may sell it for salvage, or keep it as a beater if my wife doesn't become enraged at the number of boards hanging around.
Having been on the mid 9 to 10 foot Mana and Jimmy Lewis, I know I don't want much more than 9 feet for turning and sprightliness. The 9'5" Mana felt barge-ey to me. I liked the JL Stryker a lot better than the Mana at 9'5", but it still felt a bit too long. The question is, how short and how wide?
So far, I have been thinking 9'2" Prowave, or a custom Hammer at 8'6" and 32 inches wide. The Prowave would be a challenge, but the impeccable construction and durability are definitely a plus. The L41 boards made locally are tempting, just don't know how solid. The L41 I tried was like a wave catching dream, which you would expect for a board made for local conditions. I don't want a ding magnet any more, my Vernor cured me of that, and I will gladly sacrifice some performance for durable construction now.
If I ever go down the coast, I will see if I can demo the stock 8'5" Hammer in Santa Barbara.
I still haven't entirely mastered the Vernor, so I have a couple of months, but now that my torn left knee is getting a lot better, I can see I am progressing again.
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Weeble, it might be difficult for you to try the Foote 10'4" X 34" and it's surely going to sound like too much board to you, but it's not. It surfs as well or better than my custom 9 foot Foote, it's absurdly stable and it slices through whitewater like it wasn't there. I think Rick Romano in Virginia beach has some of Bill's production boards, don't know if he has the 10'4".
I suspect that I'm the only guy that's tried this board so far, or there would be a lot more raving going on. It flies in the face of the current trend, and even in the face of where I've been going with my 9.0 Foote and my 8'8" L41. But it is simply amazing for a guy my size.
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Weeble as you can see from the responses there are many good choices. Only you can decide what it is you are looking for in a SUS. Fanatic, JP Australia, Starboard, Foote, L41 production boards or customs,North Pacific, Supsports, and my favorite is Stu Sharpe CoreVac Performer or Honey Badger.
At your size you have many options. At first glance, 170 liters seems to be too much for your weight but 130 - 150 liters sounds a little more in your weight range. But go with what you want and feel comfortable.
If you want to try a few of my boards in the 170 to 150 range we can meet up in cocoa or indianatlantic for a surf. Ps I feel real comfortable on my Laird Bark 14 also.
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Weeble
If you like the AW take a look at the new AW size wise the 9'1 would be an easy transition but if you wanna go as short as possible the AW 8'11 is doable the new AW is quicker rail to rail without losing down the line speed
If you want to Super Charge AW performance this year they are offered in LTD construction
Lastly we are offering not only ZONER disc but we have a reorder deal on 2015's
JimK
Www.extremewindsurfing.com
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I'm 45 years old, 6' 2", and about 210lbs. Starting to do some comparissons on smaller surf SUPs. Been paddling for about 3 years now in South Florida, mainly racing & touring. I normally paddle a Bark Laird 14 and an older model Fanatic Fly 12.6 (the white one with the red stripe). SUP surfing was alway aggravating for me as I always seem to heavy for the boards I tried ...snip... I liked the 9.5 length, and it seems that it's 170 liters might be about the magic number for me. I'm in Florida, so we don't the big stuff here. I'm not looking to do anything crazy, just knee to waist stuff when it actually shows up for us. Any suggestions or experiences to share would be much appreciated.
Aloha Weeble...
Here's my take on your scenario...first off...you are a bigger guy...but, at 210#, not that big...I could build you a sub-7' board if you REALLY wanted one...;-)
I've designed and built shorter high performance wave riding boards for guys way bigger than you...some over 300#...
In fact, my 8'10" x 32" 150 liter quad + 1 Wide Point design that Starboard put in production back in 2010, helped to get scores of bigger paddlesurfers all over the planet on a sub-9' SUP...
http://surfingsports.com/2011_starboard_sup_catalog/sup_catalogue_011_lowres_Page_21.jpg
That said, for your weaker wave venue in South Florida, my Hammer design would work brilliantly...I have two widths and volumes at the 9'5" length that you seem to like...
http://supsports.com/standup-paddle-boards/hammer-series
We have a hot deal on our production Australian Pine wood veneer Hammers…9’5″ x 31″ 160 L…9’5″ x 33″ 178 L…10′ x 31″ 170 L…
Maui Blue…Seafoam Green…$1299 with custom bamboo fins…quad + 1 fin box options…GoreTex breather…ergonomic handle…and, big wave rated leash with safety quick disconnect…absolutely gorgeous boards...
This is one of the best SUP deals going on one of the best all around boards on the market…quality…value…performance…
We have built a number of custom Hammers for Florida folks as well...so, I wouldn't rule out my 8'11" x 31"...Zoner BulkyBiker is your size...maybe bigger...thought that he was gonna go wider than stock, and ended up with stock size and his own graphics...
Shown below is a custom 8'11" x 33" @ 169 liter Hammer we built for Rick in Florida...we've also built him a 9'7" x 32" Stoke custom...but, we also have production 9'6" x 32" @ 165 L and 9'6" x 33.5" 175 L Stokes...quad + 1...a carbon 9'6" x 33.5" is shown below as well...we also have several of these coming out of one of our local California glass factories any day now for stock...very popular board...we can also build you one with your own graphics in a relatively short time (~ 4 weeks) as I have a number of CNC machined blanks in stock...
http://supsports.com/standup-paddle-boards/stoke-series/
Anyways...as already pointed out...these days, there are more options out there for bigger guys...
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As always, the folks on the Zone are very informative and helpful and I appreciate every comment. I am still going thru them all. Lot's of great advice and explanations of experience. I will comment more once I get a chance to digest it all. But mostly, thanks to all of you that took the time to read and comment!
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Now depending on how "small" you want to go, the "Mini Simmons" style of board might also be a consideration....as we see a lot of them at SanO, and that's about as mushy of a wave around (at least in this area).
As my signature says, I'm 6'1"/220 and my board of choice for everything from knee high to a couple foot OH is my Corran Addison 7'8"x30"x4-3/8"x119ltrs...but there are plenty of Infinity Phoenixs, Kings Simmons SUP, and a few other brands in that style down there that work well also.
Now it can be a bit of a handful when it gets a little white cappy out there, but certainly doable with admittedly a little more paddle work to you on top.
So while I've never been over to your side of the country to SUS, I do believe like others are saying here...that I wouldn't go over 140 liters at your size, and experience level.
My personal opinion is that too much volume is actually more tippy to stand on and paddle around, as too much board is above of the water, and you bob around out there like a cork floating on top the water, instead of having more of the board under that water and the chop, to help you float "through it".....if that makes any sense.
Another friend of mine who's over 230 just loves his Starboard Hero in brushed carbon at 9'0"x33"x4-3/8"x149ltrs, and he surfs it really well on most all of the condition down there...so that might be another option (although others here have given you some very good ones also) if you still feel you must go just a bit wider, and with a touch more volume.
Good luck on your search...sometimes thats as much fun as the actual purchase. :P :D
PS. My Chelu 8'5"x29" is 106 liters, and does still "float" me...sort of, as long as I keep paddling...and is great fun in the wave when conditions are just right (ie. chest high+ and glassy), but those days seem to be few and far between most of the time, and why the Mini Simmons is my "go to" board 90% of the time. Not saying you should go that low, just that at 210, I think you can trim your volume down much more, and go "smaller than you might think.
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Check out the Angulo 8'8" and 9'4". AST or carbon. Not as thick as some, and turn well from the tail..
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This is a topic that is near and dear to me. I'm 6'7" and 265# with a BMI of 28 (so, not getting down to 240# any time soon) and I've been SUP'ing since 2006 (Little Dume, AKA LairdLand). I'm also 59 years old, but I can still run a 7:50 mile and scull 2K in under 8 minutes.
When I started, the common wisdom dictated a whole lot of board, and I had a custom Infinity made -- probably one of the first 200 standos out of that shop. I had ridden the original prototype SurfTech Laird (really. i did.) and was trying to scale it up a little for my size. Yeah. It was comical: 13'10", 36" wide, 5.5" thick, Imma guess 350liter, basically a blown-up single-fin. No handle, and Boehne had to mail me my vent to install myself because we were all making it up on the fly and people were just getting a clue about SUPs blowing up in the sun -- hey, I was a "pioneer" consumer. It was a total dock. It was also a ton of fun. Jesus, did that heavy thing carry some momentum through the section. I sold it to a morbidly obese lawyer who was trying to drop 100 pounds -- i hope it worked.
Then, a couple of custom Infinity quads in the 11'x34" range. But that doesn't help your question a bit.
Twelve years later, I have a Laird Bully 12'6" (245 liter (!!) which still feels like a dock, but it's my go-to "small wave theft device") and I'm pretty sure it's discontinued. I also ride an Infinity Wide Aquatic, which at my size is amazingly surfable for a production all-rounder. The Starboard Atlas comes on my radar a lot, and the WarDog boards in SB catch my eye a lot, too. I'm in Malibu, so it's a split whether to go to the OC orbit or the Santa Barbara orbit.
My, how I do go on.
TL;DR: I say Infinity Wide Aquatic 10'8" for small, easy days, and check out WarDog in SB for a stick for higher-stakes days.
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Aloha betteryeti,
We have built scores of boards for bigger guys who know how to surf since you resurrected this almost 4 year old thread...
A big Hammer would be a no-brainer...
https://blog.surfingsports.com/2018/09/big-hammer-sups.html
Hammer SUP surfing gallery...
https://supsports.com/stoked/hammer-sup-surfing/
https://supsports.com/standup-paddle-boards/hammer-series/
For example, I could knock 2' off your current length...getting it down to 10'6" length and still keeping your current 245 liters...of course, all of the dims are tweakable...
I have a client named Big Will who is 6'5" 265#...and, he rips on my 9'5" x 33" Hammer at 188 liters...also, my 10'3" x 33" Mahalo at 185 liters...
If you want to go with a round pin, we built a killer 10'6" x 33.5" Mahalo at 220 liters for Matt that weighed in at 23#...
https://supsports.com/standup-paddle-boards/mahalo-series/
Closer L@@K at Mahalo design elements...
https://supsports.com/stoked/mahalo-sup-design/
I've also designed a new Shaka NR (Nose Rider) Squash model...for example, we could build a 10'8" x 34.5" x 5.2" at 236.46 liters...
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This is a topic that is near and dear to me. I'm 6'7" and 265# with a BMI of 28 (so, not getting down to 240# any time soon) and I've been SUP'ing since 2006 (Little Dume, AKA LairdLand). I'm also 59 years old, but I can still run a 7:50 mile and scull 2K in under 8 minutes.
When I started, the common wisdom dictated a whole lot of board, and I had a custom Infinity made -- probably one of the first 200 standos out of that shop. I had ridden the original prototype SurfTech Laird (really. i did.) and was trying to scale it up a little for my size. Yeah. It was comical: 13'10", 36" wide, 5.5" thick, Imma guess 350liter, basically a blown-up single-fin. No handle, and Boehne had to mail me my vent to install myself because we were all making it up on the fly and people were just getting a clue about SUPs blowing up in the sun -- hey, I was a "pioneer" consumer. It was a total dock. It was also a ton of fun. Jesus, did that heavy thing carry some momentum through the section. I sold it to a morbidly obese lawyer who was trying to drop 100 pounds -- i hope it worked.
Then, a couple of custom Infinity quads in the 11'x34" range. But that doesn't help your question a bit.
Twelve years later, I have a Laird Bully 12'6" (245 liter (!!) which still feels like a dock, but it's my go-to "small wave theft device") and I'm pretty sure it's discontinued. I also ride an Infinity Wide Aquatic, which at my size is amazingly surfable for a production all-rounder. The Starboard Atlas comes on my radar a lot, and the WarDog boards in SB catch my eye a lot, too. I'm in Malibu, so it's a split whether to go to the OC orbit or the Santa Barbara orbit.
My, how I do go on.
TL;DR: I say Infinity Wide Aquatic 10'8" for small, easy days, and check out WarDog in SB for a stick for higher-stakes days.
You and I are very close in size. I'm 6'7 250# 55yrs old. I have been through a number of surf sups over the years. Even built my own just because most of the shapers are little guys that don't get it. That goes for my prone surfboards, race boards, bikes, ski's, golf clubs, cars, etc. etc. My current board is a 10' x 29.5" 162 liters Coreban Icon that I run as a quad. Anyone that knows me, know I paddle skinny boards for my size. I've gone down to 130 liters and it was a serious struggle, but I stuck it out for a few weeks. Now I'm looking for a little more stability in the chop. So a little more width and a little less length. I'm not a fan of wide tail boards, but I don't have that much experience with them either. I'd love to try some of Warren's higher volume boards. I've never seen a performance Infinity or Hobie or Kings surf sup anywhere near what I need for my size. Most of the manufacturers shift to an all arounder shape when they get near 150 liters. We are definitely in the custom range with only a few options production wise. I'd like to go 9'6 - 9'0 x 33" 150-160 liter range. Naish has a 10'33 Wide, 4.75 Thick - 190L Mana that I've considered, the tail is a little too thick and the rails a little too fat for my liking. I see a lot beginners surfing them. I might be able to push it a little harder?