Standup Zone Forum
General => Training, Diet, and Fitness => Topic started by: firesurf on November 28, 2014, 07:53:34 AM
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It started late summer, the inside of my elbow ached on the way home from a long sup surf session. I pretty much have ignored it although the pain has been nagging me on and off for months.
This week we've had some surf, and being a big starved for it I evidently hit it too many times and stayed in each session too long.
My normal is after excessive sessions I generally will eat a belly full and lay out on the couch. Next morning a bit stiff but otherwise good to go.
Not so this time. The elbow pain has gotten worse, and now radiates up my inner forearm and into my wrist and fingers with certain movements.
The most concerning was after the last cold sunset session I had crazy shooting burning type pain. I generally can ignore and work through most issues.
Passed on a session this morning as I don't want to fire it back up.
I've been putting Arnicare on the area several times a day, and have ordered a FlexBar by Thera-Band to help strengthen the muscles.
Any suggestions appreciated.
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Is it hurting on the bottom or top arm when paddling?
It's a tendon issue and unfortunately will require rest to heal. Those heal slow enough with rest and super slow if you keep pushing it.
One of the causes is gripping for a long period. If this is your case you can try putting some padding on your paddle where you grip with the bottom hand (Wetsuit material). this allows you some comfort and less tension.
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I'm not really sure what position is aggravating it. I will pay close attention on my next outing. The over gripping is a real possibility.
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I had “Golfers elbow” in both elbows bad. I definitely got it from SUP paddling. The cause was “over doing it”. It developed in May of 2013 and stuck with me all summer and fall. Last November I finally decided to stop paddling for the entire winter to let it heal. Within about a month or so, by Christmas, the right elbow felt fine but the left was still painful to the touch (right on the medial epicondyle- the “funny bone”). I continued to not paddle and it continued to hurt. Finally in March I went to see an orthopedic doc, mainly for a PT referral. He confirmed that it was medial epicondyle tendonitis and listed the treatment options. I opted for PT to start. The PT gave me this routine which I did for a week and the pain totally went away and has not returned. I have been paddling since with no issues.
-400mg ibuprophen twice a day for a week
-Direct ice on the site for 10 to 15 minutes followed by
-heat for 15 minutes followed by
-massage and stretching for 5 minutes.
-Repeat two or three times.
Do that once or twice a day for a week or so.
I did that routine once a day at night for a week and it went away.
Good luck with whatever you do.
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Try 100 mgs of B6, daily. A guy who knows paddles and paddling recommended that to me, and it worked for me. My case was caused by surf ski paddling, and wasn't quite as bad as you describe.
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We have a PT/MT so am setting up an appt. asap.
Thanks for this helpful info...
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This may sound a bit homeopathic and I haven't tried it but people in other sports report that Alfalfa supplements relieve and relinquish tennis elbow or tendonitis. It's cheap so it may be worth a try.
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The Thera Band flexbar definitely worked for me. I had been seeing a Dr for my elbow tendonosis with some success but a friend gave me the flexbar and said it had cured him in six weeks after seeing a Dr. for a year. I used it for about six weeks as well and am pain free (at least in my elbow). The other modification I made was to shorten my paddle a bit and that seems to put the blade in a better position at the start of my pull.
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It sounds a lot like a stroke issue. I think you are paddling with your arms--that doesn't work. People get a good stroke and then get excited in the surf and it goes away. Watch the Dave Kalama videos and pay attention to reaching and short strokes--well in front of your feet. Dave says technique is MORE important in surfing than racing because if your technique is bad you won't get the waves. If you're in Kalama sized waves that's a big deal, because big bruddah is right behind--and you're too far in.
Keep your arms straight, don't bend your elbows and pull. You can do that little bit later on when you stop hurting yourself, but for now, they are poles. No bends. Stack your shoulders, reach way out, and pull by rotation of your core and thrusting your hips. If you catch yourself reverting, then stop. Go paddle outside the break, get your technique back, and surf some more.
You hands need to be open. Not just loose--open. Upper hand NOT holding the handle, lower hand gripping with fingertips. And Sorry, TW, but padding makes that worse--you grip the padding, and that exacerbates the problem. Open hands, not gripping.
If you're hurting yourself paddling you don't need PT, you don't need medicine, you don't need therabands, you need to stop hurting yourself. I'm 67, I have bad shoulders, I paddled hard for ten miles today and I feel great. That's not because I'm anything special, it's because I paddle with decent technique.
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I had sore "funny bone" on both elbows after a surftrip up the coast a few weeks back - I normally don't suffer from tendonitis at all. What I think happened in my case is that I switched from a long- to a short sleeve wetsuit on this trip and since I have a habit of clutching for board when I dismount I kept knocking my elbows in the same place when falling. It got so tender I could barely touch it - at first I thought it was tendonitis but the knocks made more sense to me and pain has since gone away completely.
So going forward I either try and fall differently or wear long sleeve suits......
Not saying this is what is happening to you - but just putting it out there as an option.....
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While surfing, I had considerable elbow/forearm pain develop until switching from a big teardrop shaped blade to a slender one (mine is from Werner). Instant relief. Worked on technique as well, as PonoBill wisely suggested in this thread. The narrower blade seemed to help that greatly, at least for me. Good luck.
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You hands need to be open. Not just loose--open. Upper hand NOT holding the handle, lower hand gripping with fingertips. And Sorry, TW, but padding makes that worse--you grip the padding, and that exacerbates the problem. Open hands, not gripping.
So true. That's why my paddles always have non skid on the shaft. Otherwise they are slippery and require you to grip hard. Bad, bad, bad. If you get blisters toughen up.
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This might sound far fetched, but I had exactly the same type of problem.. and here was my solution..
I took out a friend who had just started SUP on a short paddle in the bay. To model "perfect" form and paddle technique, and because I'm always told my elbows are too bent, and to ensure I got some sort of work out, I decided to lock both elbows and paddle slowly along with him as I coached.. Keeping the elbows locked, meant gripping the paddle more tightly...
So next day, I get this searing pain in my right elbow and wrist with shooting pains up to the shoulder. I head to the same PT I have been using for 15 years who is a miracle worker. Her expertise is sports physio and getting semi pro sportsmen and women back on the field mid-game. Multi-PT visits for the same issue don't work for me. I like one shot solutions and she normally delivers.
Ah, she says, all that paddling has made your forearms and shoulders too tight. She showed me some stretches, massaged the arm, and off I went. This made sense.. I rarely stretch before or after paddling.
3 days later, despite the stretches, the pain got worse. I was about to go back to see the PT when I remembered this video, and thought, wait a minute, it could be my back that is causing some sort of referred pain..
So I got out the knobbled roller and lay over it on the floor, and MIRACLE, the pain literally left my elbow and wrist in an hour and has never returned. Even my PT was amazed... I thought I'd be off paddling for months...
It was the back roll exercise in this vid that did it.
http://youtu.be/Hqgxr_V2i5I
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I had “Golfers elbow” in both elbows bad. I definitely got it from SUP paddling. The cause was “over doing it”. It developed in May of 2013 and stuck with me all summer and fall. Last November I finally decided to stop paddling for the entire winter to let it heal. Within about a month or so, by Christmas, the right elbow felt fine but the left was still painful to the touch (right on the medial epicondyle- the “funny bone”). I continued to not paddle and it continued to hurt. Finally in March I went to see an orthopedic doc, mainly for a PT referral. He confirmed that it was medial epicondyle tendonitis and listed the treatment options. I opted for PT to start. The PT gave me this routine which I did for a week and the pain totally went away and has not returned. I have been paddling since with no issues.
-400mg ibuprophen twice a day for a week
-Direct ice on the site for 10 to 15 minutes followed by
-heat for 15 minutes followed by
-massage and stretching for 5 minutes.
-Repeat two or three times.
Do that once or twice a day for a week or so.
I did that routine once a day at night for a week and it went away.
Good luck with whatever you do.
addapost:
Thanks for that regimen...I've had an elbow bothering me for over six months; not sure if it's from paddling or jiujitsu or something else, but I talked to a PT in my jiujitsu class and he told me essentially the same thing you noted.
I'll put up a post in about a week or so to let everyone know how it went....
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First off, thanks for all the advise!
I just finished doing the paddling exersizes video with Suzie Cooney.
Great stretch. Visuals are very helpful!
Truth be told, I'm thinking I got away with a lousy paddle stroke which has finally caught up with me. I'll be checking out the Dave Kalama videos as well.
Changing up my stoke will be a real challenge. Can't teach an old dog...
Most of the time I use my KeNalu elite Maliko with XTuf shaft so don't think it's the paddle.
The PT/MT really dug into the entire area and she concurred with the regimen of ibuprophen, cold/ heat/ stretching.
One of the exersizes our PT recommended was to drill a hole through a piece of PVC, tie a piece string through the hole and hang some weight. Using an exaggerated overhand method, wind the the weight up and down.
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I'd go back and read over what PonoBill advised. I had the same elbow problem about four years back. The thing that helped me the most was keeping my lower arms elbows straight while paddling. Also keeping a very light almost loose two finger grip with the lower hand. I still consciously try and paddle surf like that. I honestly haven't had any elbow or shoulder pain for years. Of course, just before I catch a particular challenging wave all my technique goes out the window.
Heck yeah you can teach old dogs new tricks especially when it take pain away;)
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I had “Golfers elbow” in both elbows bad. I definitely got it from SUP paddling. The cause was “over doing it”. It developed in May of 2013 and stuck with me all summer and fall. Last November I finally decided to stop paddling for the entire winter to let it heal. Within about a month or so, by Christmas, the right elbow felt fine but the left was still painful to the touch (right on the medial epicondyle- the “funny bone”). I continued to not paddle and it continued to hurt. Finally in March I went to see an orthopedic doc, mainly for a PT referral. He confirmed that it was medial epicondyle tendonitis and listed the treatment options. I opted for PT to start. The PT gave me this routine which I did for a week and the pain totally went away and has not returned. I have been paddling since with no issues.
-400mg ibuprophen twice a day for a week
-Direct ice on the site for 10 to 15 minutes followed by
-heat for 15 minutes followed by
-massage and stretching for 5 minutes.
-Repeat two or three times.
Do that once or twice a day for a week or so.
I did that routine once a day at night for a week and it went away.
Good luck with whatever you do.
I'm going to try that with my shoulder, which is improved but not perfect.
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Elbow is still painful, but today I paddled out in the surf for about an hour. Just took it easy and didn't get carried away, actually for a change I knew when enough was enough.
Mentally focused on trying open hands & straight arms. Anyway had fun. Iced it a couple times after and hopefully on the mend.
Also, afterward I read up on some of the old threads on paddle lengths in the surf, thinking too much length may be part of my problem. So I cut 3 1/2" off my paddle which makes it about 6" taller than me.
Feeling good about it so looking forward to the next session, maybe tomorrow.
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See turmeric tea thread.
I had that spot as well. Mostly felt it at night when all my demons attack me. But straight lower arm... yes. And paddle grip like DW mentioned.
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So I've been having the same elbow pain for about 2 weeks now and Haven't paddled in over a month, I have been doing a ton of more weight training and rowing, come to find out it appears that I am squeezing to hard on the Dumbbells and Row Handle. I'm going to try what Addapost posted to see if it helps. Take a long weekend off and then start again Monday with a softer grip and see how it goes.
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Rowing and paddling use the same type "grip". As in don't grip the oar or paddle. Just form a hook with your fingures when pulling. On the recovery relax the fingers, open the palms.
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I find that paddle wax helps keep your grip loose, especially when the paddle sticks to your lower hand.
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Tennis, hockey, baseball the looser your grip the better it is. More power, speed, and way less pain!
Saw a video on paddling recommending an OK grip on the lower hand, exactly like a circle change-up grip - seam heads only; and a duck head grip - open without the clenched death grip I had perfected..
Paddle on boize!
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timely post as I have been suffering from some elbow tenderness lately…I paddle the same way as I have for years without issues. On a 2 hr paddle it's hard to keep proper technique the whole time but I try.
I was thinking maybe I was using my computer and tablet too much ..I am the fastest 1 finger typer in the world and thought maybe I was typing too much ;D
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Try a Kevlar shaft paddle with a lot of flex. Only thing that worked for me on a 5 day trip. I switch on between that and Carbon SUP Position paddle depending on how my elbow feels.
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Caribsurf ... As long it's better by CCBC time .... Cause 11 hrs will take a toll !!
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no way I will miss the CCBC Pdlsrfr..
actually once I get going the pain goes away, it's usually sore afterward and I am trying to lift a pint glass...
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Awesome bro, looking forward to paddling along side you .... Maybe this year we'll see some whales !!
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Wow, this is the thread I've been looking for. I did a search on the forum some time ago re elbow pain and for some reason never found this.
I've had elbow pain for a while now and have been told it's golfers elbow. Still not sure exactly what caused it as I also had it while bike riding. Just recently started massage treatment and it has been helping. I haven't been on my board much in the last little while, so once I start doing more paddling that will tell me how successful the massage has been. If that doesn't work will definitely try some of the other remedies mentioned here.
Thanks so much for all the great information.
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i had golfers elbow for a while. The way i recover from it was doing this exercise with a FlexBar:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZsa0bBCAf0&ab_channel=TheraBandAcademy
i only did this for a week daily. Actually i have a flexbar in my office, i do it all the time.
Cured in one week
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Thanks Corrego, I'll give that a try as well.
Took Fri-Sun off for rest, did the 400 mg of Ibuprofen 2x daily.
This morning I wore a Copper Sleeve, held the bar lightly, and got thru a solid 30 Min Rowing with minimal issues.
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Can anyone tell me if the length of the paddle could have an affect on the elbows?
Here’s what happened. I started getting sore elbows last spring / summer. I hadn’t ridden a bike in years and then bought one early last spring. My elbows first got sore while riding my new bike. I didn’t end up riding it very much as I ended up on my paddle board most of the time, and found my elbows continued getting sore. After every session on my board my elbows would be sore. At the end of the summer my elbows were really sore, and for just these past few weeks I have been getting treated with massage, which has been making a difference.
I also bought a new paddle which I thought might help. The paddle I used all last summer was the three piece, adjustable, Werner Nitro in medium, which I believe has around a 98 sq. inch blade. I just recently purchased a new, one piece Werner Trance with the 85 sq. inch blade.
So about 4 or 5 days ago I went out on my board and used my old Werner Nitro paddle. I had the paddle adjusted to the shortest it will go, which is at 74”. This is the length I normally used it at last summer. After about 1/2 hour on my board my elbows were really quite sore. This is the first time in a while that my elbows have been that sore, although I haven’t been paddling very much in the last little while. I was pretty sure it might be because the blade is so much bigger than my new paddle, as the little bit of paddling I have done this year has been mostly with the new paddle (with the smaller blade).
So today I went out once again and again took my old paddle, although this time I adjusted it so it was set to 75 1/2”. I was out for the same amount of time and in fact paddled the exact same route I did previously. My elbows were fine. So, I thought O.K., I’ll shorten the paddle back to where it was when my elbows got sore. So I shortened the paddle back to 74”, did the same route again, and once again everything was fine.
The only thing I can think of is that when I went out previously and my elbows got sore, I was a little tired, but that is the only difference I can think of.
The reason this is important to me is that I would like to cut my new paddle down to 74”. Right now it is at 75” and it just feels to big. Just doesn’t feel quite right. My old paddle at 74” seems to be at a comfortable height so that’s why I’d like to cut the new one. But before I cut it down, I want to be sure this won’t have any negative impact on my elbows.
Anyone have any thoughts on all this???
Oh, yes one final thing. I’m 5’ 8” tall, and in my stocking feet, with my arm stretched up over my head, from floor to the top of my index finger I measure 84 1/2”.
And sorry, one final, final thing is that I just purchased a “Thera-Band FlexBar”. This is the one “Corrego” refers to in reply #29. I just got it yesterday so haven’t used it yet, but will definitely be starting with it soon.
Thanks in advance for any insight you might be able to provide.
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Had a sore elbow like that a couple of years ago - after too much repetitive strenuous SUP paddling for hours at a time. After using the green Flexbar and reducing the amount of paddling -> elbow was fine after about a month or so. Seems to have been caused from simple overuse -> so moderation was the key to getting back to normal. The constant tension and stress on the joint and tendons was probably just too much is all. The Flexbar should help a bit.
In regards to paddle length - maybe get your elbow back on track 100% -> then think about shortening it after. ;)
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trust me , the flex bar works
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Ok so which color flex bar it seems there are different resistance bars ???
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If you are a big person and have strong forearms you could probably go for the blue. But it seems they want you to "progress" through different colours to gradually strengthen your tendons and muscles. As smaller lightweights - we only got one colour - and the green one worked for us. It has ok torque when you twist and hold. We just did our own exercises after a while as what they demonstrate is very easy and low torque.
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trust me , the flex bar works
I started using the flex bar yesterday. I have the red one. Have to admit my elbows feel a little worse this morning, but I'll keep at it and see how it goes.
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trust me , the flex bar works
I started using the flex bar yesterday. I have the red one. Have to admit my elbows feel a little worse this morning, but I'll keep at it and see how it goes.
Don't over due it. If it starts to hurt, stop. It does take some time for it to take effect so don't rush it.
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trust me , the flex bar works
I started using the flex bar yesterday. I have the red one. Have to admit my elbows feel a little worse this morning, but I'll keep at it and see how it goes.
Don't over due it. If it starts to hurt, stop. It does take some time for it to take effect so don't rush it.
O.K., thanks Tom. Have to admit, I did use the bar quite a bit yesterday. I thought maybe it was normal for the elbows to start hurting more until they got better. Guess that's not the case. I'll ease off and not go at it quite so hard. Thanks for the advice.
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Thought I'd provide a quick update. I'm pretty sure I originally got my golfers elbow from bike riding. After years of not riding, I bought a new bike early last year and noticed my elbows were aching when I was riding. Never thought of it at the time, but later realized my handle bar grips were aligned in a way where my wrists were seriously flexed. I didn't ride the bike for all that long and then started paddle boarding. I think my time on the paddle board made an already existing problem worse.
I just put up with the problem last year and didn't really start getting treatment until early this year. I started off with massage and that did help. But after a while the condition seemed to plateau and while my elbows were better, they still weren't where they should be. I then tried the flex bar, and as mentioned in a couple of posts above, that actually hurt me. I maybe went at it too hard to start, but I got scared away from it and just didn't use it anymore. I next tried the treatment "addapost" recommended in reply #3 in this thread. That is taking 400 mg of iBuprofen twice per day and using ice and heat on the elbows for 15 minutes (see his post for a better description of the treatment).
It has now been two days since I stopped doing addapost's suggestion, and so far my elbows seem like they are back to normal. Definitely the best they have felt in a very long time. I should also say that I did not go on my paddle board during the time I was doing this treatment, and I haven't been on it since I've stopped, so I suppose the real test will be how my elbows feel after a couple of times on my board. But so far at least, my elbows feel really good.
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I'm gonna try one of those flexbars, see how they do from me. I've had pain my outer forearm for a couple weeks. Last week, I was wincing from pain when shaking hands and lifting a pan full of food or water. I self diagnosed as tennis elbow.
I have been trying to ice and ibuprofin and bought a copper sleeve. No idea what set it off, I actually took some time off of lifting and haven't been paddling in a while. But it's a bit scary cause just the little movements here and there are kinda painful.
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Be sure to Determine if you have tennis elbow or golfers elbow before using the flex bar. There are different exercises depending on which you have..tennis elbow is pain on outside bone of elbow while golfers elbow is pain on the inside bone of the elbow and each has its own set of exercise. I had golfers elbow but was doing the exercises for tennis elbow with the green flex bar. It wasn't getting any better until I figured out I was doing the wrong exercise. Check YouTube for some good exercises and video instruction
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Anything that misaligns your wrists can cause that kind of pain. You don't even need to apply pressure. typing a lot with a non-split keyboard fired up my forearms.
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One thing to watch for on your stroke is a high elbow on your top hand. It's not uncommon and it does put a strain on your elbows.
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A couple of things I am trying to help with my technique to alleviate my golfer's elbow. I am really trying to concentrate on not gripping my paddle too tightly, especially with my top hand. I'm not 100% sure, but I think gripping the paddle too tightly with my top hand might be one of my problems.
Another thing that was suggested to me, by one of the posters on this board, is I am trying not to feather my paddle when I take it out of the water. This other gentleman said he used to get sore elbows and by not feathering his paddle it helped him a lot.
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Ok so which color flex bar
PDL:
No idea about the flex bars, but..
Maybe you oughta lay off the "shake weights" for awhile?? :o
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I thought I’d revive this older thread in case anyone is still having elbow pain. I have been struggling with golfers’ elbow for a couple of years now. I’ve tried about everything there is to try and while my elbows are not as bad as they were previously, the issue is still present. I am currently going to both physio and regular massage and while both are helpful, I still haven’t found a cure.
I have tried and tried to figure out what is causing the issue, and then just the other day I was able to isolate it down to being my top hand that seems to give me the problem. My left elbow is much worse than my right, and my left elbow seems to experience more on the water symptoms when I’m paddling on my right side. Seems odd I know that it has taken me this long to isolate the issue, but it has been very illusive.
Then shortly after I came to the above conclusion, I found a posting on Seabreeze that I found very informative. I have seen lots and lots of posts about proper form being the issue. Most of the posts however refer to the fact that you shouldn’t hold the paddle tightly. You need to use a very loose grip. That’s great advice, but in my case, I do use a loose grip and it wasn’t making any difference. Then I found “Goochi’s” post on Seabreeze (https://www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Stand-Up-Paddle/SUP/SUP-Elbow-pain-remedy?page=2) that addresses the very issue of the top hand on the paddle. I haven’t had a chance to get out and try this yet, and it seems to be a pretty subtle adjustment, but it also seems to address the very thing that I’m experiencing. So I’m not sure yet whether or not this will work for me, but thought I’d share it in case there are others out there like me who are still searching for a solution.
Hope this is of some use to others.
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I thought I’d revive this older thread in case anyone is still having elbow pain. I have been struggling with golfers’ elbow for a couple of years now. I’ve tried about everything there is to try and while my elbows are not as bad as they were previously, the issue is still present. I am currently going to both physio and regular massage and while both are helpful, I still haven’t found a cure.
I have tried and tried to figure out what is causing the issue, and then just the other day I was able to isolate it down to being my top hand that seems to give me the problem. My left elbow is much worse than my right, and my left elbow seems to experience more on the water symptoms when I’m paddling on my right side. Seems odd I know that it has taken me this long to isolate the issue, but it has been very illusive.
Then shortly after I came to the above conclusion, I found a posting on Seabreeze that I found very informative. I have seen lots and lots of posts about proper form being the issue. Most of the posts however refer to the fact that you shouldn’t hold the paddle tightly. You need to use a very loose grip. That’s great advice, but in my case, I do use a loose grip and it wasn’t making any difference. Then I found “Goochi’s” post on Seabreeze (https://www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Stand-Up-Paddle/SUP/SUP-Elbow-pain-remedy?page=2) that addresses the very issue of the top hand on the paddle. I haven’t had a chance to get out and try this yet, and it seems to be a pretty subtle adjustment, but it also seems to address the very thing that I’m experiencing. So I’m not sure yet whether or not this will work for me, but thought I’d share it in case there are others out there like me who are still searching for a solution.
Hope this is of some use to others.
Interesting. The last time I sup surfed was November 2016. I paddled for 4 hours. My right elbow and forearm have hurt ever since. This never happened prior with recreation, surf or race paddling. I play hockey 3-4 times per week and it kills after every game. Im gonna give surfing a go again when the warmer weather decides to arrive but if it gets worse Im gonna scratch it all together unfortunately. I miss it.