Standup Zone Forum
Stand Up Paddle => Gear Talk => SUP Gear Reviews / Newly Acquired / On Order => Topic started by: Luc Benac on November 22, 2014, 04:25:53 PM
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I am thrilled. I just got locally a used Javelin Carbon 2011 at a really good price and in great shape.
Regretfully I do not get to try it yet as we are flying tomorrow to France for a couple of weeks.
But as soon as I am back I plan to take it out on our inlet for some flat water goodness.
I have a Makani Kawa that I hope will work like a charm as I do not have a Ninja.
I plan to sell my JP Australia 14x28 to keep a two boards quiver Glide and Javelin.
Cheers,
Luc
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Looks fast just sitting there.. :)
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One board quiver. For those who don't mind the refreshing feeling of cold water, the 2011 Jav is a downwind machine!!!
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Luc--you'll love that board. I have the same model. There are a lot of boards with great graphics and beautiful shapes, but none I like better than that all-white Javelin. That and your Glide (what I also have) give you about as versatile a quiver as two boards could possibly give.
And Blue crab is right, too. If you've got the balance, that Javelin is quite versatile.
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I do not have the balance yet, just the swimming and bopping abilities for now :-)
Thanks guys.
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Best thing I ever did for my poor balance was get the Javelin. The speed and glide are addicting. In calm water, more stable boards feel boring.
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It is fast but not stable. The narrow tail, soft rails, and being extra thick make it a true balance tester.
They dropped the deck on the 2012 Jav and now the new 2015 Javelins are wide and 3X the price.
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A couple of questions for you Javelin's experts.
1) Is everybody running a LA Ninja for flat water?
2) I notice that it is very difficult to carry the board using the carrying handle.
The weight distribution around the handle seems heavily shifted toward the tail, which almost guarantee that it will scrap at some point.
Any tricks in carrying the board around. On your head, shoulder, extra length harms :-)
Cheers,
Luc
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Just did my first outing today before packing and going to the airport tonight.
Moderate wind, light chop.
Hard work in side wind/side chop. I took a break every twenty minutes on different beaches :-[
One nearly missed fall in side chop saved by a last second kneeling on the windward side, but no dunking ;D
Nice comfortable glide going downwind (very light wind of about 5 knots) on gently formed wind "swell".
On flat water, the board is humbling as it does feel that you are not giving all you got, it just go faster.
This is not a board on which I would like to be too tired and not focused on choppy conditions. It requires your attention to prevent sudden surprises.
Just getting into a good rhythm and keep it going makes the board feels quite stable.
Tippy yes but great secondary stability.
No problem with the Makani Kawa.
Maybe $4K gets you the new Javelin which would be a little bit or a lot easier and yellower but for the price I paid, I could not be happier and then some.
Cheers,
Luc
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Luc--I'm no expert but I do have a Ninja on my Javelin. I've never been able to notice any dramatic differences from one fin to another, but Ninja seems to be a great, versatile fin not geared towards any extreme.
It seems like all my boards tip towards the rear when carried by the handle, whether it's a strap (Bark) or inset (Javelin and Glide). I carry my boards on my head for all but very short trips anyway. My fingers get tired using the handles, especially the Javelin's since it doesn't allow your fingers to curl.
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Here is old sup vic test data from a couple of years ago that seems applicable to your jav and glide -
http://www.supvic.com/the-rps-supvic-ultimate-14-board-test/
The results are quite interesting in that no two paddlers had the same times for the same boards. Every paddler was faster or slower on different boards - this goes to show that the results are specific to each individual etc - so ymmv.
Out of these - the Ace Touring and Bark designs are still in production with minimal changes - not really sure of any other ones.
The modern design of your Sportster actually has a good balance between stability and speed for a flat water board. You may find that board to produce surprisingly good results when compared to the old guns. It is however nice when one finds a deal on something they really want and need. ;)
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I've never been able to notice any dramatic differences from one fin to another, but Ninja seems to be a great, versatile fin not geared towards any extreme.
To most extend I do agree that it would take a better paddler than myself to be able to detect differences on similar fins of similar size.
i.e.
On the JP the OEM fin and the Kawa work the same and I would be hard pressed to do a conclusive blind test. Maybe a small nod to the smaller OEM fin on really flat water, but then again, a day in good shape versus a day in bad shape will likely create a bigger difference
On the other hand:
1) on really flat water the Hybrid on the JP feels just too big and I can tell the difference right away
2) on the Glide the Kawa does not seem to work that great and the OEM fin works better and makes the ride smoother
I am assuming that more radical fin design like the Aercor would possess more "personality" and make a more noticeable difference on the board handling. Such difference might be more or less pronounced depending on the board and the conditions.
Anyway that is my theory to justify trying out new fins ;). Left over from my windsurfing days where a fin could make a huge difference on a board.
I was really surprised at first about the balance at the handle, but after handling the board outside of a garage walking up and down the beach and parking lot, you get really used to the balance. That said, I do not have that problem with the Glide that is a breeze to carry by the handle.
Cheers,
Luc
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The Aercor is a very interesting design. It likely would have allowed a recovery from a broach yesterday when quartering a wave DW. Using the Elite was not optimal in that instance due to the incredible base tracking effect - here the fin needed to be loose. Straight DW however and in slop the Elite is perfectly manageable.
OTOH the OEM 8.3 SIC fin is much faster on flat and more loose DW - but tippier paddling sideways to waves to get to the wind line. Always compromises - but always fun to play on the water. Both fins work fine - but one is better than the other for different situations. The Hybrid works surprisingly well DW on the loose pin tail Touring - and the Dom DW works good with the quick Slater Trout shape.
Yes - fins for windsurfing can make a big difference - and one can accumulate quite a collection I understand. ;)
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Best thing I ever did for my poor balance was get the Javelin. The speed and glide are addicting. In calm water, more stable boards feel boring.
Mike, you are spot on, it is a challenging board that will make flat water runs more interesting and allow me to improve my overall technique at the same time, the results should be very rewarding. I hope to see these benefits for the downwind season on the Glide next spring/summer as an additional bonus.
Cheers,
Luc
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I just sold my 2011 Javelin yesterday. It was purchased out of surplus warehouse stock in 2013 and only had a year on the water.
I used the board in all kinds of conditions and as Gorgebob said, 'fast but not stable'. Still, after a month or so of daily downwinders, I got it to work very well in the Gorge. In Maui, I would have considered trying it in perfect Kihei conditions but everything else was just too rough and confused. I did use the Jav for a couple of flat water races last Winter and I will miss it if I do those same races again this Winter.
I used several different fins with the board. For downwind, I used a swept, old windsurf fin which allowed the board to track and turn when surfing. It was less stable than a long chord-length, deep, tracking fin which would probably be best in choppy conditions where you'd want the greatest stability.
Still, with the egg shaped rails, all the way back to the tail and the tall, boxy shape, it is a challenge to ride and paddle well. But you will get there if you ride it regularly. I would be sure and use the vent screw when storing the board and experiment with foot position as well. I found it most stable just behind the handle, a good place to start on downwinders, moving your feet around as necessary for surfing and trimming. In totally flat conditions, you can get your toes all the way up to the smooth part of the pad, in front of the handle. You'll find it even more unstable up there but that's a fast place to go on the flats.
Enjoy and good luck!
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In totally flat conditions, you can get your toes all the way up to the smooth part of the pad, in front of the handle. You'll find it even more unstable up there but that's a fast place to go on the flats.
That is where I was riding. Same with the Glide, front of the booties in line with the front of the pad.
The JP Australia on flat water is definitely super easy and comfortable to run but still very fast. Perfect for a day when you do not want to think too much, want to enjoy the scenery or with aching muscles.
It is immediately rewarding on flat water.
In the chop it cuts through most of the wave, but can slow down and get very wet.
So nothing wrong with the JP and it would be a keeper and a great board for flat/touring for a single board quiver.
The Glide is just better for confused water and downwind.
The Javelin while more demanding for flat water, should potentially bring better rewards even if it could be slower at first.
I could consider keeping the JP, but outside of the cost of having three boards, too many boards also mean that you do not not spend enough time on each.
Anyway this is getting out of the scope of the thread and into generalities...
Cheers,
Luc
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I also had the exact same board quiver. 2011 Javelin (GS) 14' and a 2012 Glide GS 14. Love, love, love the Glide. Bought the Javelin for more speed, but it was a Bioootch in side wind and side chop. Goes great downwind and I thought it was fantastic directly upwind too. Just slices right through the waves. For me, the constant balance checking on the Javelin took the fun out of it. I got rid of mine after about a year. Got an SIC X14 SCC and love it.
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I guess I am lucky been pretty light weight at 166 lbs.
I was actually pleasantly surprised with the Javelin on flattish water for the first time.
I was expecting to be thrown out of the board right off the bat, like when I tried the Ace.
As long as I keep on the flat water of the inlet close from my home, I feel that I have a fair chance of learning from that board without dreading going out. It better be that way, because I only go for flat water in the off season and the water is cold by then.... :'(
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When you get right down to it, I make the "Glide or Javelin" decision based on water temperature. And if it's really cold, or a long race where I don't want my legs to die, I bring out the Bark.
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When you get right down to it, I make the "Glide or Javelin" decision based on water temperature.
;D
I can only paddle during the WE so it really limits paddle time. So I would feel bad having three boards and not using them much.
If I was not my wife would make me feel bad about it anyway...
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I got a used LA Ninja to try out on the Javelin and compare with the Makani Kawa that I have been using.
I just had a 10km flat water paddle this morning.
First impressions.
Paddling with the tip of my feet touching the smooth pad at the front as usual.
1) The nose seems to engage slightly more if that is possible.
The feeling is that the board glides a little bit more. It feels like a chord between the tip of the nose and the tip of the fin.
2) It also feels a little bit tipsier even after the first hour of paddling but definitely seen some improvement as I get used to the fin I guess.
I have no idea if this translates in any improved speed, but that is very secondary as I am just looking for my own enjoyment.
I was paddling at 6.45 km/h average with max at 10 km/h according to my new Canmore GP-102.
Cheers,
Luc
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Luc, I have the same board, and like Covesurfer, I put a regular swept windsurfer fin in it, partly to loosen it up for downwinding, and because it sheds weeds well. I had the same Glide/Javelin quiver for a while, and at first the Jav gave me fits. I'm still not good in side chop on it, but it became my go to board for Gorge downwinder's for the last month of the season. While I'm not a great paddler, forcing myself to ride it in all conditions really upped my game. After getting used to the speed and ease with which it catches swell, it's really hard to go back to something slower... so I bought a 2014 LE ;) Keeping the 2011 Jav for my 16 year old son to ride.
Enjoy your new board!
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After getting used to the speed and ease with which it catches swell, it's really hard to go back to something slower
For now I have only been catching large motorboat's wake (of which we have many and that will always steer right by you as a matter of course). Based on just this, I can understand how this board can be addictive for "straight" downwind like the Gorge.
so I bought a 2014 LE ;)
Yes and the truck to put all the boards also - you lucky...... :-)
I am already enjoying the board and I am taking it out every week-end so far (touching wood for the climate to stay as good).
Cheers,
Luc
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I don't know why it always pops up, but this board is such a gateway board! I picked one up a few years ago for a stellar price that was my first flatwater board as well. Fantastic intro to speed.
A tip for carrying it is to always carry it tail first - that way you can at least see how high it is off the ground as opposed to having that danger spot in your blind zone.
I seem to remember that balance was considerably better standing back a bit (handle or further back) when things got choppy, but I can't confirm that for sure. Keep in mind I think that nowadays there are definitely boards that are the same width/narrower that are more stable/faster, but when that great deal comes along how can you really say no? Have a blast on it!
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I think the threads on this board won't go away because this is really the first board that does really well as a one board quiver, at least in capable hands. It has been really cool to see the All Star and Javelin progress over the last several years as one quiver boards which are fast in flats, considerably more stable overall, and great at picking up glides / racing in places like the gorge. The weird thing about the 2011 for me is that it is actually more stable in well groomed downwind conditions than in a flat water race. I sill love to for downwind but don't dig it for mild, distressed chop.
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don't dig it for mild, distressed chop.
Yes I cannot imagine that I will ever be good enough to enjoy side/confused chop of any kind on this board.
On the other hand, I could see myself getting good enough to take it on my favorite light upwind/downwind ride in Howe Sound where 90%+ of the time you go either against or with the chop. Downwind in light wind/chop seems to be the best with this board and it seems pretty stable in such conditions - unless I am due for a nasty surprise one day...
And yes the price was so "right". I would never have jumped the gun on a new Javelin 14x26 at $4K new, even if available used.
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I took the javelin with the Makani Kawa this time out on the same paddle. Similar conditions as much as can be.
GPS results are so very close than could be considered the same - which I guess is not really a big surprise.
In these flat conditions it would take a better paddler than myself to separate the two fins. Both seems excellent and deliver a nice ride.
Looking forward to try the Ninja on the Glide and of course if it makes it to me the Aercor.
Cheers,
Luc
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I took the Javelin with the Naish Dolphin 10.5 fin. As it was a little bit more windy and not super flat water today and I wanted to try it.
As expected, stability is improved including secondary stability. Side chop is still not fun but it feels a little more manageable.
The size of the big fin is not too evident upwind or in flat water protected from the wind. The board feels a little bit slower and not as responsive but it is OK.
Curiously, when trying to pick-up a wake, the Javelin loose the feeling of gliding that is so nice and it feels like if you had snag a weed.
All in all not a great success but something to keep trying for potential open ocean conditions.
Cheers,
Luc
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I just tried the Hybrid with tide, wind, quartering chop and board wake bouncing of the coast in our inlet, and it performed beautifully.
I had never experienced this board as stable in this kind of conditions. Usually I would have been on my knees or in the water.
Now the other side of the coin is that the Hybrid keeps the board straight. Not much foot steering and such.
I was wondering if the LA John Becker would be the same. Been a keel, it is probably not looser than the Hybrid but I wanted to ask just in case.
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DJ had mentioned that a friend of his had good success with adding a fin box closer to the center.
I had our local repair shop do just that and will try it this week-end.