Standup Zone Forum
Stand Up Paddle => SUP General => Topic started by: marvinhecht on November 20, 2014, 07:56:26 PM
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I have enough credit to get a new (or relatively new) SUP board from SURFTECH. I need help deciding betweeen these models:
11" x 29ish Laird Pearson / Arrow SURFTECH with 4+1 fin boxes
9.6" x 29ish Laird Pearson / Arrow SURFTECH with 2+1 fin boxes
10"6 x 29ish Gerry Lopez Purple "Big Darling" SUP with 4+1 fin boxes. Or it may be possible to get one ofthe other Gerry's:
2014 10"6 x 32 Blue Big Darling (nice, little wide)
2014 Gerry Lopez Big Darling (widended for the last year) 11"2 x 32 (orange)
- this last one seems nearly perfect, but I am worried I will grow out of
it too soon.
Background:
I am living in Honolulu and have been SUP sufing for about 1.5 years now. My "home" breaks are Canoes, Pops, Paradise, and Three's (in that order). I've been on 2 downwinders and 1 race, but I like SUP surging the best. Also learning regular surfing but not as fond of it. I am 5"9. currently 220 lbs, but have been as low as 170 lbs (and dieting to get back down to that). I like the looseness of
quads so I would want to run quads in either case.
Skill: I can catch a wave fine, walk forward on the board to get more speed and get the last little bit of the wave, and my paddling form has improved recently. My balance is pretty good too - I can balance on my 12 x 26 sup-converted-to-windsurfer just fine.
What I am working on: Riding waves > 3/4 feet (face), entering at a steep wave at an angle (so as to not to summersault), I can turn on a wave *some* of the time to follow the curl. I can put my paddle out as a brace (Alma). I have not done a bottom turn yet, nor can I consistently turn to follow the curl and go down the "trough". I have been riding mostly boards 11-12" but lately I am stable on 9.7" and 10" boards about 29" wide.
Goals: eventually be able to zig zag up and down the face, maybe do some tricks
(helicopter).
For those of you who have surfed both these boards - what are their characteristics and how would that help or hinder my getting to my goals?
In my experience the Laird allows me to do some things really well: I can step back and do a buoy turn / 360 really easily on the laird. I can glide really well on the laird. On the lopez's I can surf a little better (i think). I didn't mention it above but I've also tried the surf music at pops and with quads it really rocked. But the surf music is so wide it feels like paddling a turtle!
BTW - both Laird and Lopez have ended their relationship with Surftech - Laird now has his own company, and Lopez is with Naish. I am bummed out about that. The only surf sup shapers that surftech still has are Robert August and Al Merrick. I have only tried an Al Merrick 9.7 (a long time ago - and I was falling)...but I could also get a 2015 Al Merrick Caddi 10" but it is in AST not tuflite (and I am tough on things). And I don't think a quad is available in the Merrick's.
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Simply put go with the Laird lots of reasons most important you'll like it best
JimK
www.extremewindsurfing.com
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9'6" Laird will be da kine! Lopez too wide for Town..
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I agree, either Laird was made for that wave.
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The purple Lopez comes in quad (I didn't see a 5 fin option) and the 9-6 Laird comes in 2+1. You sound like you want to go quad but want other options. I don't know how important to you that is but if it is paramount, you haven't found the perfect board yet. My preference is longboards as a single, and fishy wide tail shorter boards as quad. The Blue lopez is quad +1 and although it's a bit wide, as a first board it will work really nice for you now and great for anyone coming over and trying SUP out.
The short view is "What board do i get now?" Ask around this forum. It's HIGHLY likely that you'll have another board a year into the sport and you'll be able to dial your preferences in better and the bigger board is always a plus for friends and family. This sport is an addiction and your shaper is your "dealer." :)
Having said that, I loved surfing the Laird 10-6 x 30, even at 240#. I was able to dial in my current longboard, thanks to that demo. I haven't tried the Lopez surftechs so I don't have the reference. The last bit of advice is to find a shop that will let you demo those models. Nothing like a demo to help your brain figure out what your body likes intuitively.
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My Laird experience:
I had the 10'6 x 30 with 4 +1 set-up....surftech model
I really didn't like it as a quad or a thruster.... very sticky, and slow to turn.... I almost gave up on it.
But then:
I put in a 10.5" single fin, all the way back in the box (for noseriding) Bingo!
Turned like a dream, all of a sudden, the board came alive.... try it, see what you think.
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I wrote a very long reply but it did not post yet... so in case it doesn't:
- I have a few other SUP's I am repairing etc -- all 11"-12" one with quads.
Sounds like I probably want to go with Laird, maybe the 9.6. The folks at surftech are cautioning me that the 9.6 may not be as good because of how the weight is distributed on that version of the board (?).
If its not a quad but turns as easily - that's fine w/ me.
Also - what are the Lopez Big Darling and Little Darling w/ quads really BEST at? What kind of waves / surf? North shore?
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Big darling very wide and big - 170 liters. Slow mushy waves. Lil' darling narrow and low volume 127 liters not a noserider at all. Would work fine anywhere in Hawaii if you can ride a narrow low volume board.
There is a reason they are all on closeout!
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Speaking from first hand experience i rode the lopez big darlin in santa cruz a couple of years back I loved it rode it at capitola on a bout a 3 foot day and had a blast. Not sure how capitola compares to wakiki except that maybe wacky rolls a lot more and cap breaks but I could be totally wrong there. Let us know what you decide and post some pictures. Ironically the first sup Iever tried was the Liard 11x29 and while it took almost 2 hours I di manage to stand on and paddle 100yds with out falling off. the caveat was it was in the lagoon in carl bad with about 10 jet skis doing circles and turning it into a washing machine like soup but then I didn't know any better then.
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oh and one other thought if you are 59 220 wide will be good for you unless you are a pretty surfer already, I am 5"11 235 and i find a board at 32 is pretty sweet.
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I am leaning toward the Laird now - the 11"0. This appears to be a classic shape / design that is so good - it lives on - with Bob Pearson designing boards with the same dimensions for Laird SUP and for the Arrow Santa Cruz surf shop. And the 11" is just under 30" wide.
On the Lopez boards - I actually liked the most the "revised for 2014" 11"2 x 32 (orange) Big Darling. It made me look better than I was in Waikiki because I could lose my balance and still recover. And the waves in Waikiki are slow rolling 1-3 feet waves most of the time. But lately 32" seems to wide. When I fall and try to flip the board over - I can't get my arm all the way around it.
The 10"6 x 32 Big Darling was similar, and it seemed especially wide for the length. It's been a long time since I surfed the purple 10"6 x 30(ish) Lopez board - and I remember it was a little tippy, and nothing very distinct about it.
I called the guys at Surftech and I can demo both the laird and (any of the Lopez's) side by side. We'll see!
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All,
One final thought tonight: Since I am currently almost done repairing a beat-up NSP 11" and making it an 11"7 pintail with (possible) quads
http://www.swaylocks.com/forums/nsp-sup-11-pintail-and-quads-conversion-shaping-questions
...another option is to do nothing for now- just finish the repairs, ride that thing until I can reliably turn on a wave, helicopter, etc. and then later on put the surftech credit to whatever 9.0 board is available (e.g the 9.0 Al Merrick Caddi is still staying in the lineup). I've also gotten into downwinders and could be interested in the new surftech Bark Downwinder. Last but not least - there is also a chance to pick up a used 14" Gerry Lopez Kawi-Kai (tiger-looking) or a 14" Laird/Bark flatwater race board. If the board I am reparing turns out really good - these later possibilities may need to be given more weight. Marvin.
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I don't have any skin in the game (i.e. I don't sell boards commercially) but I understand the motivation now for a new board to replace the NSP. I don't know anyone that enjoyed surfing that thing for more than their first wave or two.
Great score on the demo side-by-side from Surftech. I don't think anything any of us will say will have more weight than your own gut feeling after the demo. I also think you've done a solid job narrowing down your choices. You're definitely on the right path.
What Creek said about fins...that's gospel. Do what you can to try a variety of set ups during your demo. My own new custom in small waves was mediocre with side bites and spot on perfect as a single, while my other shorter board is perfect for me as quad.
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Cool thanks!! Keep those comments coming!!
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All,
One final thought tonight: Since I am currently almost done repairing a beat-up NSP 11" and making it an 11"7 pintail with (possible) quads
http://www.swaylocks.com/forums/nsp-sup-11-pintail-and-quads-conversion-shaping-questions
I don't mean to be rude.. but.. IMO that Franken-Board needs to go into the bin..
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The Frankenboard probably SHOULD go into the bin, or sold .. but this weekend Suftech is letting me demo the 2 boards in question... I am off to Waikiki right now! Trying the Lopez purple one first.
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Are they close-out pricing those boards?
I could always use another crowd control/ lineup dominator.
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Howzit brah, Lopez vs. Laird?
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results
1) surfed the purple gerry lopez 10"6x29 saturday for 3 hours in Waikiki
fins: gl1 quads
Really hard work balancing but a good abs workout. Out at populars surf break I fell a lot and had a hard time in bumpy conditions. Had to rethink everything and forget I was on a SUP and imagine I was
on a regular surfboard -- and really concentrate. Harder to get on a wave. But twice ... I nailed it and zoomed down the wave and into the trough. Faster than I've ever gone before on any board. This board is awesome once in the pocket and turning on the wave face.. That's where this board is 'home'. Kind of like that part in Star Wars where Luke finally makes it into the trough in his x-wing! Odd experience for me -- I am used to boards that just glide into the wave but the turn as easily as a 16-wheeler truck on a race track!
2) SUP-surfed the Surftech 10"6x30 Pearson Arrow Laird sunday for 3 hours in Waikiki:
laird thruster 2+1 with center being 10.5" and all the way up near the side bites for looseness.
Fell a lot also..but able to think a little less about balance overall. Very fun board. Slightly better glide when doing regular paddling. The wide "garbage pail" type nose helped to get on the wave and maneuver onto the face, or do last left or right adjustments-- to make "lemonade out of lemons" (i.e. catch a wave that really is a dog). Was able to stay balanced and walk forwards -- to ride various sections--and once made it nearly to shore. Felt a bit more like I was sliding "on" the wave (or lip or foam) than "in" the wave. Caught way more waves overall. Felt the acceleration once really well but did not seem to have the same breakneck speed as with the Lopez.
Overall - the Laird was more comfortable and "fun"; the Lopez was more challenging but seemed to really have potential for me to grow into it over time. If I could get used to the Lopez I think I would eventually lean to carve and ride a tube someday. The Laird might allow me to learn things like the crossover and/or the helicopter sooner and gets me on the wave easier - but may not force me to truly surf & carve as soon.
Note: next weekend I am testing the laird again but the 11'0 version-- it has a quad setup option.
For now... I am really conflicted each board has strengths and weaknesses....no clear hands-down winner!!!
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I picked up an 11' Laird surftech used, and for me it was a tank. I'm quite a bit lighter than you though. I just remember thinking how slow it was. It should perform better with a heavier rider in bigger surf.
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"nothing like a demo"
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Forgot to mention, I was out this morning on the 8'11 Lopez Little Darlin which I also picked up used. Surf conditions where maybe waist high and clean with light wind.
I really like this board. At first I got in with the JP 8'8' WB. The 32" width just felt like too much and too slow in these weak glassy conditions.
I grabbed the Lopez and had a fun session. With it's narrower width it has good glide and is easy to get in a wave. Also for me it holds really well on hard cut backs which I love to do. I've haven't ridden the Big Darlin, but the shapes look similar. Looks like they have the same square tail. It also handles late takeoffs without pearling the nose.
I've got a 10' Laird and have to stay way back on the drops or the nose will stick.
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as an afterthought one more thing... as you mentioned the Laird has a big nose. Great for noseriding, but plays hell getting down the face in heavy offshores. Generally when it's winding I leave the Laird in the van.
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It is funny you mentioned the nose of the laird as being a (sometimes) impediment in the surf. I was trying to get on this wave and the drop was a little heavy and the round nose went down and went SMACK and made a huge sound like someone belly floppying - and that ended that run.
I guess a more pointed nose like the Lopez would have sliced through that and I might have continued (if I could have kept my balance). But I did find that I wish the Lopez had a little more nose rocker because it did have a tendency to pearl sometimes. Guess I may need to get back more. (That really is an issue for me - I still have to remind myself to step back to the tail once on the wave- more often than not).
Note: Even Laird Hamilton now has a model with a pointier nose, just not with surftech any longer:
-the model with the same Pearson-Arrow shape as for Surftech:
http://www.lairdstandup.com/Surfer.html
-newer, more "surf" oriented models with a pointier nose:
http://www.lairdstandup.com/Surfer-Hybrid.html
http://www.lairdstandup.com/Fire-Fish.html
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IMO just different designs for different conditions. Certain days I love my Laird board.
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-newer, more "surf" oriented models with a pointier nose:
I encourage you to read some of Supthecreek's reviews of both performance oriented shorter boards, and his search for a performance longboard. He surfs both styles and surfs them hard, but one will perform similar to a shorter prone board with nearly all the time spent on the tail, and one is targeting his longboard style (cross stepping, nose rides, and all the other things Creek does while he's surfing -intentionally or otherwise). He does a rather clever job of presenting his take, some pictures and a bunch of video, and it all works to tell a story of how it works for him.
I say this because that laird board is a really refined SUP for the longboard style, and for the right rider it will be the go to board in nearly all conditions. The exact same thing could be said about the Lopez. That's where the demo comes in, and all our advice goes out the window. Your experience with the board in your specific conditions are far more valuable than ours on a specific board. I've read glowing reviews here of boards I've tried and completely failed on. Based on my experiences (and mine alone), I have to take discussions about boards below 9 foot and thinner than 31 inches with bags of salt. I know of excellent surfers who surf very small boards and are as stable as pyramids on them.
Ultimately you'll buy a board and surf it to death. You'll likely buy another before that death, and probably have a couple dozen chances to ride other shapes. Take everyone of those chances. Your brain is refining what works on every demo, and that idea of the perfect board is becoming clearer with each session. Finding things that work for you is a big part of the fun of SUP surfing, and the process is never fully completed as long as you have the strength to drag the board to the water and hop on top. ;)
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What a nice reply - thanks! I'll look at Supthecreek's reviews.
I should mention that to build up the amount of credit I've built up to get one of these 2 boards, I've been renting all sorts of boards from them for nearly 2 years. The ones I liked a lot were:
GL 11"2 x 30 light blue Big Darling (rented many times)
GL 11"2 x 32 orange Big Darling (rented the most - maybe 8 times)
This board allows (still does) me to ride in both small and huge wave
conditions in Waikiki and look good - I can lose my balance, recover and
keep going. My 12-year old son swears by this one also.
Laird 11" - I remember it was great at doing the 360" in flat water (on other boards I could not do it). it was fun but different than the lopez's.
Al merick 9.7 - the pits. Just fell 90% of the time. Saw another guy my size struggling too.
GL lil' darling- can't even stand on it without falling off - in flat water. neither can my son.
Jamie Mitchel -10" - same as the lil darling.
GL yellow 10" x 34" surf music - i remember turning on a wave by accident felt great.
This was at publics.
But I felt like i was paddling a turtle! My wife liked it though..she stood up on it fine
in somewhat rough waikiki waters.
GL 9" x 34" red real stubby board - like the GL yellow - but worse. Way to wide.
Bark Competitor / dominator etc - fast, sleek, good in flatwater
Laird/Bark 14" - ironically great for beginners because it is 30" wide and so stable.
loved it.
Gerry 14" DW board - seemed skinny and too high (but now I know this would be perfect for DW).
Below - pic of me before returning the 2 boards. I am 220 lbs right now (ouch) and 5.9"
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Administrator: I just realized this thread should probably go under Gear Talk. If you see this, please move it. Thanks!
Still looking for thoughts / comments.
It sounds like traditional "longboard" style sups are good for riding the nose. I've never ridden the nose, not sure if I am really interested in that. Performance surf sups (non-nose-riding) seem to all have a pointy nose and look more like a big version of a shortboard. If that is so, then I probably should be getting the Gerry Lopez purple one. Because I am bigger, this smallest version of the Big Darling is for me like the Little Darling is for most other people....
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I have good news and bad news.
first the good: you're closer than ever to deciding which board is right for you.
now the bad: You're gonna get sand in your Porsche. ;)
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+1 slatchjim - that beautiful Porsche is going to change! Have been following this thread with some interest. Marvin - your last comment was interesting. I thought you actually stated you liked the Lopez mo bettah! ESPECIALLY if noseriding and longboarding style really not important! Dollars to donuts no matter which way you go you will have more than one sooner than you think and the Porsche WILL be sandy!
Aloha,
mrbig
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Yes the Porsche already has sand in it. And an extra scratch when I bumped a fin against it once. Also, the last few days I've left it outside the garage while trying to repair my Frankenboard - bad when a newer hobby supercedes another hobby.... I watched the movie "North Shore last night" again - and learned so much esp from the things Chandler was saying. It was fun to see both Gerry Lopez and Laird Hamilton in that movie playing Vince and Lance respectively. Also lent some old longboard movies from a friend and watching them soon to get a sense of what classic longboarding is like in contrast..
Also - one other board I love to ride is the Rusty 10" and 11" sup..
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rode a boardworks Rusty SUP today 30 x 10. pointy nose similar to the lopez. could hardly catch anything today at waikiki canoes. when i did it was an ultra short ride - wind blew me nearly to a halt. when i got back to moku rentals they siad it was the horrible wind, not me or the board. Nonethless--- is there some special trick to getting a small pointy board ONTO the wave?
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Any thoughts on the proper method for getting onto a wave on a pointy-nose "performance" SUP such as the Lopez Big Darling 10"6 - vs one that is wider and rounder ?
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Set up closer to the peak and near a more critical section of the wave. Work less and let the wave do the heavy lifting. Get a good pivot turn down to help with positioning. More about pop than glide.
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Any thoughts on the proper method for getting onto a wave on a pointy-nose "performance" SUP such as the Lopez Big Darling 10"6 - vs one that is wider and rounder ?
check this thread out...
http://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,25697.0.html
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Don't cheat. Straight take-off standing towards the tail; and then do a bottom turn. Angle take-off no turn boo hiss! And ALWAYS take one more paddle stroke.. 8)
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Guys thanks!
The last few days I demoed the 11" Laird in red with Gerrry Lopez Quads -- and it was my best experience overall. Totally scored more long rides on waves than ever before in a single session - and did a couple of wide arching turns and direction changes on the wave. The extra bit of length seems to help. I also did not think of balance at ALL (but my abs also weren't sore afterwards). So at Surftech they said that on the Laird 11"0 vs the Laird 10'6 the the middle/wider section of the board is a little more forward, so that one does not have to step back as much. That could be it too. I do need to learn to step back more - that's for sure regardless. But once on the wave I was able to step forward to speed up once slowing down, and then step back in case I started pearling. Anybody compared the 11.0 vs 10.6 Laird specifically and have thoughts? The 10.6 would be new in the box but Blue and the 11.0 is nearly new and red. The 11.0 is a tad heavy carrying it around and won't quite fit into my Honda Odessey - but I'd mostly be locking it up at a Surf locker - so that would not mater too much. Thanks!! Pic below of the Red 11.0 model.
Don't cheat. Straight take-off standing towards the tail; and then do a bottom turn. Angle take-off no turn boo hiss! And ALWAYS take one more paddle stroke.. 8)
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I have the Pearson Laird Surftech 10'6" - I think it is a great all around board, but I've not ridden many others.
It turns great because of the pintail. It is a good noserider but very difficult to get to the final foot of
the nose before the tail pulls out. I surf it from 2 inches to double overhead. I think it is the pintail, in part,
that allows it to surf size so easily.
I weigh about 175 currently.
But at 220 I think the 11' might be a better choice for you, at least initially.
You might outgrow it but it will be easier to progress and have fun on.
It should also be a bit easier to flat paddle to where you want to surf!
(caveat: I only tried the 11" once briefly before I purchased my 10'6"...which,
as a beginner back then, was much tippier but so much fun!)
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Subber,
Ah yes - on my driver license (4.5 years ago) I was 172 lbs. Its all this great Hawaiian food (I love Kalua Pork) that has me a little higher now!!
Thanks for your thoughts. I demo'ed the 10.6 also and had almost as much fun and was almost as stable, but I had to think about balance more and did not nail 1/2 as many waves.
But it is interesting that the 11.0 is actually less wide (28.5 vs 28.75) so possibly a little tippier for someone starting out. It also could have been that having quads on the 11'0 helped - then again there are others I have heard from in another forum that swear by 2+1 SOLUS fins, or 1 single massive fin. The one guy found that 1 single massive fin helped loosen the board up AND of course that helps nose-riding.
The 10.6 that I was able to demo only had the 2+1 slots and I was riding it with that. Is that what you have? I wonder if you put 1 single big fin - maybe getting your toes all the way to the nose. Still debating... luckily the 10.6 that Surftech has does have the 4+1 configuration. Regardless of which one I end up with I'll be experimenting with every possible fin combination...
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That is the one I have - 3 boxes.
Had it about 4 years.
I do think it is 29.75 inches wide.
From a site:
10'6" x 29.75" x 4.38" x 154 liters < I have this one.
11'0" x 29.50" x 4.38" x 165 liters
I have accumulated quite a fin collection including some very large single fins.
I routinely get up to about a foot from the nose - any more, usually kerplunk.
Parallel stance nose riding is like a flying carpet!
It maybe if I tried more often for that last foot I could, but I surf in pretty cold
waters and like to stay dry. Most of the time, I only fall into the water one or two times
per session.
I normally use one of the big single fins. I also have some large 5.125" side bites and I
sometimes run it as a twin if the waves are small and mushy - less drag - or sometimes
a small single (7.5") - also less drag. I can also slide around the top turns in those configurations.
I do wish I had the boxes to try it as a quad but I think my favorite would still be with the big single.
It maybe less effort to paddle the 11 and maybe
a bit easier to catch waves, especially if they are mushy.
If you are that comfortable on the 10'6" you might get that because as you progress
you balance will get better - & you might also drop towards your previous lower weight.
Either size would probably be a lot of fun. They are great boards.
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FWIW, surfboard factory outlet out in westOahu has both of those lairds for less than the closeout price listed on the surftech USA web site. You could always save your credit for a later purchase.
I've not ridden any of these boards.
For canoes, longer is better. There are too many proners on 11+ boards at that break. If you want to stay out of the pack, you will need board length.
Big darling II is a newer design, with a more typical bottom contour. If I had to buy without demo, I'd go that route.
Credit at surftech distributor on queen st does not run out. I checked with them the other day, and I've still got rental credit from around 6 years ago. You will use it sooner or later. I would try a couple other brands, just so you know what is out there. Maybe start with the naish 11 and c4 10-6.
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Still deciding.. thanks for all the feedback.
I'll have to call the surfboard factory to see what they are going for. These would be going for about 1050 k in credit (give or take) because that's the price of the other discounted Laird boards on Surftech's USA site.
I posted some pics in this thread:
http://www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Stand-Up-Paddle/Review/2013-Surftech-Laird-110-vs-106-vs-Lopez-106/
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Ok....I don't know who put the guard on the pintail in that last pic, but that's just wrong.
Be nice to shapers !
I'm barely over nose guards.
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Surftech puts noseguards and tailguards on every demo board they rent. If I get this one, I thought it would be wise to keep them on... however you give me second thoughts. Does it interrupt the flow of water (on the front, or back) and therefore make the flow of water NOT what the shaper intended?
BTW latest update... had a lousy session re-testing the Laird 10.6 and almost picked up this Laird 11.0 but the guys at Surfech suggested I give the Lopez 10.6 Purple Big Darling one more try.. they put a set of V2 F4 quad fins on it to loosen it up even more than stock, and suggested I try the board on some steeper waves like at Ala Moana Beach Park (e.g. Tennis Courts, Concessions) vs the milder, less steep Waikiki waves at Canoes and Pops..... Will keep you'all posted.
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Hey, it is many years later and I was re-reading my old thread, it is very interesting. In case anybody was waiting in suspense about what I decided on - it was the Lopez board. At the time it was the more challenging board, and helped me get a better ab workout, as well as better performance in the surf itself, which was my goal. While I miss the Laird 11.0, I think I made the right choice. Unfortunately I moved away from Hawaii (I know) back to Canada where I grew up. But I brought the board with me! Had to rent then buy a wetsuit, but Kincardine (Lake Huron) is my new "home" break. This 10"6 Lopez feels like a heavy oil tanker up here because the waves here are very small, high period, and all windswell. But this board still rocks! Now looking for a 9"3 or 8"8 SUP surf so I can catch these small waves better, and turn in time before the next one comes!!
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Nice to see this man. Glad you got some miles out of that board too!
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Some eye candy. I'm 6'7, 225 lbs. This is L41 ST. It's 8'8" x 32" x 4 1/2" 140 liters. Super stable in chop, and turns on a dime. The L41 TV Dinner might even be better? Talk to Kurt. http://www.l41surfcraft.com/models-sup