Standup Zone Forum
Stand Up Paddle => Gear Talk => Topic started by: yugi on September 22, 2014, 04:33:52 AM
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Mo Freitas was on a cool looking Focus race board at Huntington beach. Anyone seen it or have any info on it?
Looks like a race board that would downwind well. I like pointy noses.
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It looks like a prone board. Other than seeing the picture, I don't know anything about it.
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It's their new "all waters" style race board... wicked narrow, but they're doing a big boy version too. Focus has stepped up their game. I have their new catalog at work... I'll chime in tomorrow on the specs of their production version.
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Focus has updated their Cali line by changing the shape above the water-line, and introduced a new Downwind model which is the board in the photo. That is the 12-6 by 24.5" I believe. They also have a 14' version that think comes in at 27". I'll need to look at my dealer catalog too and double check those dims. The 14 will offer competition for the SIC 14s, but come in well under 2k$ in glass.
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That board looks cool. Does Pat Rawson shape his race boards too?
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ok, here are the specs and costs on the new Focus Downwind boards:
12-6 DW Bluefin, 24.75" wide $1430 glass / $1995 carbon
12-6 DW Bluefin Wide, 27" wide $1430 glass / $1995 carbon
14 DW Bluefin, 26" wide $1665 glass / $2355 carbon
These are going to be hot boards in 2015
Raf
owner of Soposup
Focus dealer
www.soposup.com
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Thanks for the info Raf. I agree those are going to be hot boards. Any pics on the production version? The one Mo is riding looks like 20”. It’s at his knee!
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Mo's board is 22" :o
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no pics :(
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2 inches narrower than my old longboard. I guess if you're the size of a gymnast, you can do that sort of stuff.
(While I appreciate the conditioning it takes to be a racer, my lot is solidly cast in the surf category. All those years of basketball leagues, I was never jealous of those that just ran distance to stay in shape. I'm to squirrelly to be that disciplined and not goof off along the way)
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Slatch, these boards are exactly that; boards to goof around on when you aren't surfing. I think we are going to see some significant growth in the "downwind" market in the next couple years because these boards are better for most of the non-surf crowd than the pure displacement raceboards. They go fast on flats (not as fast, but still fast), they surf better than raceboards, and anytime the weather turns a little crappy or you are dealing with chop, they work better than raceboards. For folks living in a marine coastal environment, they make a lot more sense than displacement boards.
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Slatch, these boards are exactly that; boards to goof around on when you aren't surfing. I think we are going to see some significant growth in the "downwind" market in the next couple years because these boards are better for most of the non-surf crowd than the pure displacement raceboards. They go fast on flats (not as fast, but still fast), they surf better than raceboards, and anytime the weather turns a little crappy or you are dealing with chop, they work better than raceboards. For folks living in a marine coastal environment, they make a lot more sense than displacement boards.
Yep.
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Looks alot like the Infinity Blackfish, which looks alot like the NSP boards, which look alot like the Fanatic boards. hmmmm…..
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It's up on the website now.
http://focussup.com/boards/bluefin/
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Nitzan from Focus stopped by our shop today to show us the new Focus Bluefin - this custom was 14 x 23 (!), production will be 26" wide.
The idea is an ocean/downwind board that carries its width nose to tail, making it stable and allowing you to ride it narrower than a standard race shape... w/ the added speed of a narrow design.
He also pulled out a prototype Cali Race that could become production for 2016.
These are both California-made customs, they are working on a special order program for custom boards which is pretty cool.
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Thanks for sharing the photos Mitch - those rails look nearly parallel at some angles but I'm sure it's fast.
cnski: the nose design comes from Craig Lockwood's Waterman paddleboard design from the early eighties. Brian Szymanski's NCP paddleboards used a similar design and he adapted it to SUP. Steve Boehne shaped some of those early boards for Lockwood so it's in the Blackfish DNA, but I agree a lot of designs are carrying the width longer so they can go narrower (didn't some association try to ban that?).
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so... anyone ridden one of these yet?
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The 14' x 23" looks like the board that Mo raced on at the Lake of the Sky Race last weekend. Same traction pads and the Body glove sticker is a give away. It was very narrow. I paddled out to the start line with him and the board really goes through the water nice.
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I’m 155 lb. The board is super stable, very easy to buoy turn, rolls over side chop with ease, very forgiving in downwind, a little slow in upwind but not as bad as a planning board. I have the 12’6” x 27, but I wish I would have gotten the 24.75. My board weight in at 26.5 lb without the fin, much more than advertised, but it wasn’t a deal breaker for me. It comes with a very large and heavy fin that I didn’t even bother to put on. It has a lot of volume so a larger paddler won’t have a problem riding it.
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^thanks. I see you have a bullet 12. How does the Bluefin compare on downwinders?
The Bluefin looks like a lot of the newer less rockered DW shapes. I figure the boxy outline makes it more stable than it's width would suggest. I'm 165lbs riding 14 Rogue Rage and Bullets but ready to step down to a narrower more racier board even for DWs.
I'm familiar with Bullets and spending more time on a 14' Javelin x26 2014. From the looks the Bluefin could be somewhat in between - which would be perfect.
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Yugi,
I’ve paddled all the boards you mentioned. Going from a Javelin to the Bluefin would be a step down IMO. Downwind the SIC Bullet 12 is faster and feels like it catches bumps easier than the Bluefin, but upwind and flatwater the Bluefin is faster. I demoed a Rage Rogue and was disappoints in how heavy it was, but I heard Rogue is going to fix that. Where the Bluefin excels is in side chop.
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I got on the 14' x 26" last week with a client for a demo. They were looking for an open ocean paddler that was fast AND comfortable. I was really impressed with the board. The boxy rails are not the sexiest things around, but they get the job done; great stability in a 26" board. I'm not a monkey, but I could go to 24" without too much trouble at 170lbs. So you get a very clean stroke on such a stable board. I was on the carbon model, and it was light enough. As Chilly noted, very stable in side chop. It also tracks unbelievably well. My client noted that she could paddle 3x as many strokes per side before switching than she was used to. Parallel rails with a hard edged bottom will do that.
In the end she went with the Bullet V2 which is a little more stable when it gets hairy at 27.25" wide. The biggest downside to the Bluefin is the deck is higher than we are used to seeing, but I think thats really just something you would get used to pretty quickly. All in all, I think its a viable option to the V2, especially when you consider that it is about $600 less expensive.
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I was always amazed at how stable Admins original Foote 14 DW board was at 27".
http://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,2141.0.html (http://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,2141.0.html)
It had boxy rails also but not that boxy and not as long, mostly just in the standing area. My Vec was made to almost the same dimensions but it's 28" and doesn't have boxed rails...an inch wider but slightly less stable.
I can only imagine how stable that Focus is going to be carrying the box so long, add in the boof nose and the wider tail and it should be silly stable. I'm going to have to try one.
Do flatter rockers help or hinder stability? I guess it depends on the rest of the design.
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I saw these on CL San Diego. Not sure of the connection? http://sandiego.craigslist.org/csd/spo/5111512694.html
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I'll jump in on this discussion, full disclosure I'm a Focus ambassador. My current raceboards are a 2015 Bluefin custom 14x24.5 and a 2015 Cali custom 14x25, both US made. I'm 6'3" and 200 lbs for reference. The first thing I noticed with the Bluefin is that it is oddly stable for the width. I've had no issues with stability in any conditions on this board. The targeted use is open water paddling and downwinding, and I think it does really well for both; in messy conditions it the raceboard of choice. Downwinding it gets into bumps well and is really easy to surf on a bump; it's probably one of the better surfing boards I've downwinded on. I haven't had it in the surf yet but think it will handle really well, I know that the guys in CA like these in the surf. It isn't a bad board in flatwater either but does give up some speed, but it also wasn't built for flatwater. This board also has done really well paddling in reverberating boat wake chop on busy times on the lakes; it seems to stay above the mess and doesn't get pushed around with cross-chop. Cross-chop/crosswind conditions are way nicer on this board compared to standard race shapes.
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I was always amazed at how stable Admins original Foote 14 DW board was at 27".
http://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,2141.0.html (http://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,2141.0.html)
It had boxy rails also but not that boxy and not as long, mostly just in the standing area. My Vec was made to almost the same dimensions but it's 28" and doesn't have boxed rails...an inch wider but slightly less stable.
I can only imagine how stable that Focus is going to be carrying the box so long, add in the boof nose and the wider tail and it should be silly stable. I'm going to have to try one.
Do flatter rockers help or hinder stability? I guess it depends on the rest of the design.
That’s a nice board Admins has. Wow, from 2008. It’s funny how sometimes board designs makes a full circle. That’s a good question if rocker affects stability. I don’t know. Aside from width, my experience has been, a wide tail, plenty of volume, and square rails helps. I haven’t found it noticeable increase a sunken deck has on stability. Maybe because boards I’ve tried with sunken decks are tippy to begin with.
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Rocker adds stability. The rocker resists rotation along the axis and usually helps the board steer the direction you lean.
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Yeah....that's a special board he had. If I had known he was selling it I might have actually bought it and left it on Maui to use when I visit....I don't have that kind of $$'s to throw around but that's how much I liked it. There have been a few boards that just felt magical the 1st time on it...that was one. Strange since I would have to chop off an arm and leg to weigh the same as admin.... :P
That's what I was getting at concerning rocker. Seems like every board I've tried with minimal rocker wants to throw me off. But most of those also have had a somewhat displacement or at least rounded bottom. I simply can't use them, by the time secondary stability kicks in I'm already headed for the water. I have a hard time getting everything out of the Speedboard because it's such a thoroughbred. Get forward enough to get the tail to release and it becomes unstable for me with my crappy balance. I spend too much time bracing or on the edge to be able to put the pedal down. When I actually can it screams but it has to be glass for that to happen.
I always have to remember to tell people to take what I say with that in mind. Me saying a board is unstable doesn't really mean much to most folks. Bill says he has bad balance. When he got the Penetrator he was able to take it out DW....I couldn't paddle it 100' in flat water.... >:(
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Get forward enough to get the tail to release and it becomes unstable for me with my crappy balance.
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What do you guys mean by "get the tail to release"?
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Aside from width, my experience has been, a wide tail, plenty of volume, and square rails helps.
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"plenty of volume" is popular. Personally I'm not a fan. I like low riders in the water. "Enough volume" to float you, sure, but I find more than enough and i feel a bit corky. Not sure where this high volume thing comes from or what it brings you? Warmer feet in cold water for sure is one plus I appreciate.
I tried a 2016 prototype very low volume DW board, about <200L I'd guess on a DW recently in pretty good planing conditions. Interesting. Fun to be standing water level. Kind of surfy. Plenty fast. Keep the low rocker pointy nose from poking and it was pretty cool. Have a vid of a friend on it BTW if interested.
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If I’m in messy ocean chop that extra volume allows you to change positions on the board to adjust to the conditions without changing the trim too much. Also the board slows down and becomes unstable if the water is coming over the side or if the tail and nose are going under. Once you’re on plane that volume does nothing. I don't think that low volume prototype you mentioned would not work well were I downwind.
When the water coming off the tail looks like a rooster tail or sometimes you can actually hear it is what I think Stoneaxe was experiencing. He had to position himself way forward to prevent that, but the downside is that he had to stand over the rounded part of the rails where it gets really tippy.
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Get forward enough to get the tail to release and it becomes unstable for me with my crappy balance.
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What do you guys mean by "get the tail to release"?
On some of these race boards if you are standing in what you might normally consider the neutral point (around the handle) the tail is still pushed too far down in the water and the squared tail causes a lot of drag. Get the tail off the surface just slightly and you can feel the speed and length of glide increase. I forget the exact dims but the Speedboard narrows quickly once you get forward of the handle. The very 1st time I paddled it was on a glassy pond that Bob Blair uses for testing. He was paddling behind me and I was in what I thought was the right spot for the board. It felt pretty stable and pretty fast. He told me to take a half step forward. The board loses stability because the square tail is now out of the water and you are standing on a 20" wide part of the board but the change in speed and maybe more importantly glide is noticeable.
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OK, gotcha. I’d call it a “clean release”. Tail not too low but not to high either. A v light person on a big board sometimes needs to step back if tail is lifting water.
I wonder if Starboard / Mathieu Rauzier’s “turbo release” transom designs coming out mitigate the need for super clean board trim. The water behind a board with “turbo” channels looks pretty busy though. I like boards which leave no trace in the water behind them.