Standup Zone Forum
Stand Up Paddle => SUP General => Topic started by: Zooport on September 21, 2014, 11:07:56 AM
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SUP surfed both Saturday and Sunday morning in Huntington Beach and had these reactions to my SUPing from proners. Note: I am extremely careful not to take waves, endanger or get in the way of proners.
1. Proner #1 said, "Good morning" to me as I paddled by. We chatted for a minute and as I was paddling away he said "I've always wanted to try one of those things."
2. Encouraged by this, I said "Good morning" to the next proner I passed. He said "Good morning" too and we exchanged pleasantries.
3. Finally said a friendly "good morning" to a more surf punk looking guy on a shortboard as I paddled by and, as you can probably guess, got nothing but stinkeye. Said "good morning" again and he nodded but continued the lethal look. If looks could kill, I would be bleeding out in the ocean right now. I never took a wave he wanted and actually was rarely even near the guy.
The first two people looked more like working and family men, the last one looked like he lived only to surf. Seems to me like those kind of guys hate us the most. Surfing is their life and we must be ruining that somehow. Most others are more reasonable. What do you think?
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Just the way some people are...
I have always lived to surf... but never cared what anyone else rode or did.... I just like being in the water... it's more fun to be around stoked, happy people.
Most surfers are the same way.... but as in many things in life.... it's the assholes that stand out.
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My possible explanation as an outsider: The first guys are there for the same reason you are--enjoying the activity. They have no reason not to accept you unless you're unsafe, hogging waves, etc.
The rude guy is there trying to live out the whole mythical, badass surfer lifestyle/image that's in his head. Your mere presence as someone who doesn't fit the proper image of a "surfer" threatens his whole inner fantasy world he's so desperately trying to hold together, so he lashes out at you. Your surfing ability, unselfishness, etc. are irrelevant and won't change his opinion or response. Your showing up as a conventional person on a standup board is the equivalent to him of you sneaking into an obsessive/compulsive's house and randomly moving things out of place.
Think of all the movies (Vertigo, Shutter Island...) that show people being torn apart psychically by the mental turmoil of being forced to come to terms with a reality that differs from what's in their head, after having spent years building and trying to maintain a false, imaginary world, and how they lash out at anyone/anything that threatens that, because it's a matter of survival for them.
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most of the stink eye and words I get come from the surfers who don't know or choose not to follow the rules or frustrated 40-50 something on small boards not catching waves. however some are just assholes period wheter they be in the water inline at he store or on the road. I'd say 10%
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My possible explanation as an outsider: The first guys are there for the same reason you are--enjoying the activity. They have no reason not to accept you unless you're unsafe, hogging waves, etc.
The rude guy is there trying to live out the whole mythical, badass surfer lifestyle/image that's in his head. Your mere presence as someone who doesn't fit the proper image of a "surfer" threatens his whole inner fantasy world he's so desperately trying to hold together, so he lashes out at you. Your surfing ability, unselfishness, etc. are irrelevant and won't change his opinion or response. Your showing up as a conventional person on a standup board is the equivalent to him of you sneaking into an obsessive/compulsive's house and randomly moving things out of place.
Think of all the movies (Vertigo, Shutter Island...) that show people being torn apart psychically by the mental turmoil of being forced to come to terms with a reality that differs from what's in their head, after having spent years building and trying to maintain a false, imaginary world, and how they lash out at anyone/anything that threatens that, because it's a matter of survival for them.
Spot on explanation PDX.
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most of the stink eye and words I get come from the surfers who don't know or choose not to follow the rules or frustrated 40-50 something on small boards not catching waves. however some are just assholes period wheter they be in the water inline at he store or on the road. I'd say 10%
Good observation. This guy fit that bill. I was catching 3 waves to his 1. Never got in his way or took one of his waves though.
I remember when I used to prone surf on my 6'2" board, I got pretty annoyed with people too. Harder to catch waves on those potato chips. Never gave stink eye or hatred though.
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My possible explanation as an outsider: The first guys are there for the same reason you are--enjoying the activity. They have no reason not to accept you unless you're unsafe, hogging waves, etc.
The rude guy is there trying to live out the whole mythical, badass surfer lifestyle/image that's in his head. Your mere presence as someone who doesn't fit the proper image of a "surfer" threatens his whole inner fantasy world he's so desperately trying to hold together, so he lashes out at you. Your surfing ability, unselfishness, etc. are irrelevant and won't change his opinion or response. Your showing up as a conventional person on a standup board is the equivalent to him of you sneaking into an obsessive/compulsive's house and randomly moving things out of place.
Think of all the movies (Vertigo, Shutter Island...) that show people being torn apart psychically by the mental turmoil of being forced to come to terms with a reality that differs from what's in their head, after having spent years building and trying to maintain a false, imaginary world, and how they lash out at anyone/anything that threatens that, because it's a matter of survival for them.
Wow, I think you just successfully psychoanalyzed jerk wad surfers. Good insight.
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I have to admit, I have never had much problem with younger surfers so far. It has been the older guys who seem to stink eye and lecture the most i.e. late 30's and above. The younger people actually seem to be more flexible and usually friendly/courteous.
However, I have to admit, a lot of the older proners are also pretty nice. The not so nice older ones have occasionally pulled up and turned right into me like they were thinking of running me down but had second thoughts, but they have been uncommon.
Some of the younger guys I have seen and recognize seem to have developed a portfolio of activities which includes both prone and SUP, depending on their mood and conditions.
When I was first on the ocean, a guy in his forties always made a point of paddling over to me and telling me "Hey, man, don't be a hazard." I could never understand what he was talking about, since I was on an inflatable board way away from the lineup on empty water with nobody in front of me. I now realize he was stating that my EXISTENCE was a hazard because I was on a SUP.
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Yaa, man. Don't you know? You have no right to exist! So quit existing right now!
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My possible explanation as an outsider: The first guys are there for the same reason you are--enjoying the activity. They have no reason not to accept you unless you're unsafe, hogging waves, etc.
The rude guy is there trying to live out the whole mythical, badass surfer lifestyle/image that's in his head. Your mere presence as someone who doesn't fit the proper image of a "surfer" threatens his whole inner fantasy world he's so desperately trying to hold together, so he lashes out at you. Your surfing ability, unselfishness, etc. are irrelevant and won't change his opinion or response. Your showing up as a conventional person on a standup board is the equivalent to him of you sneaking into an obsessive/compulsive's house and randomly moving things out of place.
Think of all the movies (Vertigo, Shutter Island...) that show people being torn apart psychically by the mental turmoil of being forced to come to terms with a reality that differs from what's in their head, after having spent years building and trying to maintain a false, imaginary world, and how they lash out at anyone/anything that threatens that, because it's a matter of survival for them.
Excellent.
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Not everyone responds positively to me out in the lineup... but I usually have such a big stoked grin on my face, that they're infected before they even realize it. Every day on the water is a true gift from God. I try really hard not to let anyone else throw their shadow on my stoke. (Breathe.... release....) and much of the time I find I'm contagious. Now there are those who won't say 'hi' or are disgusted with my lack of ability, but I can't do much about that but get more time on the water, now, can I?
Stoked in California
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Hey guys,
I hate the stink eye as much as the next guy. In fact, eggy sessions surrounded by angry surfers often ruin my sessions. I think it's important, though, to look at our part. I'll speak for myself...
When I was new I had no concept of snaking or respect. And so what did I do? I snaked..a lot. Not too mention on a boat-of-a-board that most of us start out on. I still see a fellow SUP'er drop in on guys constantly. It really gets to me. That's the kind of behavior that's going to get us banned from all beaches except a few select SUP spots. I love T street, 204's, the Pier and Strands too much to lose them! In fact, the first time somebody gets seriously injured by a SUP, I think SUP's being banned is a very real possibility. Hawaii has already started.
So it doesn't surprise me when we get the stink eye. Sometimes our fellow, especially new, SUP'ers have earned that for us. Not too mention the insane advantage we have over proners.
I think it is our job to police ourselves before the lifeguards and laws do! Keep an eye on fellow SUP'ers...
Note: i'm not talking about anyone here. It sounds like the guy who started this thread is more than respectful.
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Well maybe I am an optimist.
Only Stink Eye?
I remember a Gal once asked me if I was Happy,
I said yes and she told me to tell my face that You're Happy.
So I suppose you don't always know what you are projecting out to others..
I figure everyone is entitled to a bad day.
You don't know what others are going through...
Surfing can be a great way to decompress..
Give the guy some slack...and space..
I surf with many of the same guys (proners) day in and day out..
They have all pretty much lashed out in one way or another over the years...
They just didn't quite know how to deal with their issues at times.
If the Guy was yelling out to you then that is a different matter..
You might ask him to leave his baggage at home.
Be Cool and Compassionate...
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I think it is our job to police ourselves before the lifeguards and laws do! Keep an eye on fellow SUP'ers...
I totally agree...just like ice hockey.
When I first learned prone surfing which was later in life, I didn't know all the rules. Luckily the surfers at my home break and those who I was very fortunate to learn from, were excellent in teaching me the etiquette in addition to how to surf. This is exactly why I am not too thrilled about the big box stores selling SUP boards. When you buy from a big box store you don't get any personal tips, guidance etc., recipe for disaster in my book. We really do need to police ourselves. I'm new to SUS so I stick to areas way away from everyone else, did pretty much the same when learning to prone surf. I really believe we can make a big impact if we police ourselves. No need to be a prick, a gentle heads up to a wave hog that may not realize what he/she is doing goes a long way. Just my 2 cents.
Fanatic 9'5" Allwave
KeNalu Ho'oloa paddle
Surftech 11'6" Balboa
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If the Guy was yelling out to you then that is a different matter..
You might ask him to leave his baggage at home.
Be Cool and Compassionate...
Well said. It's important to remember that technically were guests in there territory. Surfing has been around a lot longer than SUPing. Doesn't mean we bend over... just means we keep a certain level of respect and understanding. If everyone has fun..we have nothing to worry about.
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If the Guy was yelling out to you then that is a different matter..
You might ask him to leave his baggage at home.
Be Cool and Compassionate...
Well said. It's important to remember that technically were guests in there territory. Surfing has been around a lot longer than SUPing. Doesn't mean we bend over... just means we keep a certain level of respect and understanding. If everyone has fun..we have nothing to worry about.
"Cool and compassionate" yes, but "Guests in their territory" seems awfully deferential. You're not guests at all, and it's not their territory, regardless of who came first in history (which very well may not have been prone surfing).
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There was no trouble at all today. I was just remarking on the different reactions; thought it was interesting. I try very hard to be a good ambassador for our sport, probably overly so. Plus, like many of us, I prone surf too and I used to hate SUPs too, so I know where they are coming from.
The problem is that the haters just irrationally hate us all because they have made judgement on all of us because of what the SUP kooks have done in the past.
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PdxMike,
While what your saying may be true, it's kind of missing my point. My point is lets just be respectful. Nobody wants to lose our SUP freedoms that the surfing majority would be happy to fight to have removed. It's already started in Hawaii..
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I'm sure everyone's experience is different, just as our worldviews are unique. There's plenty of people SUP surfing that give haters ammunition. Kooks, wavehogs, loudmouths. I've been all three. I'm still number three and take a good run at one sometimes. It's certainly not a bad idea to at least speak to other SUP surfers who are being a pain in the ass. But it's not what we are there to do. It's not enjoyable, it doesn't add to the experience.
As far as who hates us most, I've never had much grief from good surfers, or shortboarders. And never from anyone riding bigger surf. It's mostly poor to mediocre longboarders on weeny little three foot waves that get their panties in a knot. That makes it just a laughable situation that I'm really way past caring about.
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PdxMike,
While what your saying may be true, it's kind of missing my point. My point is lets just be respectful. Nobody wants to lose our SUP freedoms that the surfing majority would be happy to fight to have removed. It's already started in Hawaii..
I got your point. Certainly be respectful. And certainly prone surfers will be pushing for restrictions in the future. That's why I wanted to point out there's no need to feel like standups are guests. In Hawaii, the opponents of the recent proposed standup restrictions preached aloha, respect, etc. but also made it absolutely clear they had every bit as much right to the water as anyone else. That turned out to be a powerful combination. You can show respect, and understand the other side's views, while still being clear you have the same rights they do to the water, and you'll get more respect back if you do.
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PdxMike,
While what your saying may be true, it's kind of missing my point. My point is lets just be respectful. Nobody wants to lose our SUP freedoms that the surfing majority would be happy to fight to have removed. It's already started in Hawaii..
I got your point. Certainly be respectful. And certainly prone surfers will be pushing for restrictions in the future. That's why I wanted to point out there's no need to feel like standups are guests. In Hawaii, the opponents of the recent proposed standup restrictions preached aloha, respect, etc. but also made it absolutely clear they had every bit as much right to the water as anyone else. That turned out to be a powerful combination. You can show respect, and understand the other side's views, while still being clear you have the same rights they do to the water, and you'll get more respect back if you do.
Agreed :)
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Hey guys,
I hate the stink eye as much as the next guy. In fact, eggy sessions surrounded by angry surfers often ruin my sessions. I think it's important, though, to look at our part. I'll speak for myself...
When I was new I had no concept of snaking or respect. And so what did I do? I snaked..a lot. Not too mention on a boat-of-a-board that most of us start out on. I still see a fellow SUP'er drop in on guys constantly. It really gets to me. That's the kind of behavior that's going to get us banned from all beaches except a few select SUP spots. I love T street, 204's, the Pier and Strands too much to lose them! In fact, the first time somebody gets seriously injured by a SUP, I think SUP's being banned is a very real possibility. Hawaii has already started.
So it doesn't surprise me when we get the stink eye. Sometimes our fellow, especially new, SUP'ers have earned that for us. Not too mention the insane advantage we have over proners.
I think it is our job to police ourselves before the lifeguards and laws do! Keep an eye on fellow SUP'ers...
Note: i'm not talking about anyone here. It sounds like the guy who started this thread is more than respectful.
I agree I see lot of sup dropping in way of on the shoulder, Thing is that is wrong those guys should be taking off at he peal like any good surfer If you are on the should then maybe your not as good as you think and should rethink your position in the line up
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I think it's a frustration thing if you only prone surf on small boards. I've been out trying to make it work on a small board when a stand up guy comes out and happily catches lots of waves and get's long rides and is back in the lineup pronto. I finally say screw it, if you can't beat 'em join 'em. I'm going in and getting my stand up board.
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Jerks are jerks whether in the water, on the road, in the bleachers at their kids' games, etc. I try to be respectful and be the first to apologize when I'm at fault but I don't think there's any point trying to convince them that all SUPrs aren't kooks. They've made up their minds so I just ignore them. It must be exhausting to be angry all the time...
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vfq0bvVhQWw
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Gotta disagree.....! no we are not guests in their territory. there is no difference in riding waves just how you catch them and the ocean is for us all. saying we are guests in their territory is like sying they have more right o be there than we do or if you wan to split hairs since I have surfed for nearly 50 years then someone who has only surfed for 30 has less right to be there>>>>>>> I don't think so.
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I prone surfed like a lot of you before I got into using
a paddle , when I go {sup} surfing I think of it as surfing and
not sup or susing , we should just do away with that silly sup specific
vocabulary and just consider ourself surfers 8)
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Right on Rolf!
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I prone surfed like a lot of you before I got into using
a paddle , when I go {sup} surfing I think of it as surfing and
not sup or susing , we should just do away with that silly sup specific
vocabulary and just consider ourself surfers 8)
Hear, hear!
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How about "kneesers", about half way between "proner" and "SuSer", since I do a bit of popping up from knees after paddling into the wave. I'm not the only one, I see a few doing it, too, even a guy standing up on a longboard and using a kayak paddle to paddle on knees into the wave and pop up.
I don't really regard "proner" as derogatory, per se, it is pretty clear and succinct what you are talking about in the mysterious glossary of surfing terminology. Doesn't seem any worse than "sponger" or "butt boarder".
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Back in the early days there were some of us who enjoy the English language that tried to kill SUP. Notably Clay Feeter, publisher of Stand Up Journal gave killing it a serious shot. Didn't happen of course. Once a train leaves the station it's tough to get it back. Like 12'6" and 14' race boards as the standard. Done deal, next issue.
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It seems like there's a couple discussions going on about what to call people ("proners", etc.). I don't like SUP, or SUS, or even worse, SUPpers. I don't see "proner" as derogatory either. I think of everyone surfing as "surfers" but when people are discussing the two groups, such as in regard to regulations, you have to use words to differentiate the two. In those discussions, calling surfers (the ones without paddles) "surfers" isn't clear, unless you're the type who doesn't consider surfing with a paddle as being a "surfer". Saying "proners" or "prone surfers" is just a way to be clear in a concise way.
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I tend to call us paddle surfers.
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1. Proner #1 said, "Good morning" to me as I paddled by. We chatted for a minute and as I was paddling away he said "I've always wanted to try one of those things."
2. Encouraged by this, I said "Good morning" to the next proner I passed. He said "Good morning" too and we exchanged pleasantries.
3. Finally said a friendly "good morning" to a more surf punk looking guy on a shortboard as I paddled by and, as you can probably guess, got nothing but stinkeye. Said "good morning" again and he nodded but continued the lethal look. If looks could kill, I would be bleeding out in the ocean right now. I never took a wave he wanted and actually was rarely even near the guy.
2 out 3 not bad I'd be happy with that. Some of my local breaks you can paddle through a thick steam of stink eye. Stand up's are progressing super fast and alot of riders are dropping down too fast to the new super small models and look really unsteady. This really is the pet hate of proners when guys are constantly tea bagging or paddling around with rattle legs. I never really have a problem with the younger crew it's the old salts that are just haters. I find laying down and paddling into the pack then sitting on the board seems to calm the angst , it just takes the attention away from then slowly drifting out and catch a wave. All this quickly falls apart when some other Stand up rider paddles out through the pack and tries to take the first wave. I'm the first person to jump to my feet and have a quiet word to him in front of everyone. May not earn me respect amongst the crowd but I certainly get alot more tolerance.
Name wise for Sup's or Stand Up's , I just say I'm going surfing no matter what I ride.
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You're right about the wobbles being bad first impression. Not understanding
what we're up to, the struggle for balance while paddling seems to counterbalance
any later ripping you do on the wave. If I'm on a small board I'll spend a good deal
of time prone to blend into the pack as well.
As far as playing cop with the newbie standup, I'm kind of over that. If one shows
up and starts to screwup, I'll either move on, or kind of block them out when the sets come till they move on.
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I actually don't get much stinkeye. Probably because I rarely paddle out into the middle of a competitive pack of surfers. Prefer to surf lesser waves, at lesser spots, with lesser tension.
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It seems like there's a couple discussions going on about what to call people ("proners", etc.). I don't like SUP, or SUS, or even worse, SUPpers. I don't see "proner" as derogatory either. I think of everyone surfing as "surfers" but when people are discussing the two groups, such as in regard to regulations, you have to use words to differentiate the two. In those discussions, calling surfers (the ones without paddles) "surfers" isn't clear, unless you're the type who doesn't consider surfing with a paddle as being a "surfer". Saying "proners" or "prone surfers" is just a way to be clear in a concise way.
I couldn't agree more I go surfing not suping or paddling. After all when a proner catches a wave and stands up isn't he standing up surfing.
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You're right about the wobbles being bad first impression. Not understanding
what we're up to, the struggle for balance while paddling seems to counterbalance
any later ripping you do on the wave.
I see your point, but I am finding the opposite true right now. When I'm out on my stable, floaty AllWave, perfectly balanced, is when I get stinkeye. When I'm out on my 8'3 X 28, I'm working to stay upright and seem to get more respect. Maybe it's because it's obvious that I'm not out on a big tanker to hog waves.
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It not as if there is no bad vibes between surfers themselves.
Surfed for many years on long boards and there are always wave hogs.
shoulder hoppers and living traffic hazards in the lineup. Short Boarder hate Long
Boarders and they both hate Supers. And they all have problems with each other
in crowded breaks. This is the problem with limited waves and overcrowded breaks.
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Zooport, it could be that the 3rd guy you passed wasn't giving you the stinkeye, but rather was just afflicted with a serious case of "bitchy resting face" (or technically, it's male variant, "asshole resting face"):
http://youtu.be/3v98CPXNiSk
;D
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I don't know, when they start performing an exorcism ritual when you pass, it might be a case of real assholiness rather than asshole resting face.
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Zooport, it could be that the 3rd guy you passed wasn't giving you the stinkeye, but rather was just afflicted with a serious case of "bitchy resting face" (or technically, it's male variant, "asshole resting face"):
http://youtu.be/3v98CPXNiSk
;D
Too funny!
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My wife has BRF (self-admitted). She can be a little scary.