Standup Zone Forum
Stand Up Paddle => SUP Advocacy => Topic started by: TallDude on September 17, 2014, 09:42:24 AM
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Thanks to Surfline cameras and the rewind feature, I was able to see Mr. Torn Blue Rash Guard "protecting their line". You can see it was no accident. There is a big gouge in the side of my board from the impact. He took off with one thing in mind.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFm5IPb-2I4&feature=youtu.be
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What a wanker. A little water polo hold down might change his approach.
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Kick his ass seabass!
That was bullshit. Two can play at the game. Go find a 12' tandom board. Sit on his ass and fuck with him. Don't let him have one wave. Do it with a smile, it digs way deeper into these shallow minds.
I have gotten into it with that guy and he's a pussy, I promise. It's going to get worse unless we stick up for ourselves. I started suping in HB in 05', I think? I have noticed the attitudes are switching for the worst amongst the proners. I personally don't put up with the bigotry, the misguided hate these small minded people have.
Pm me if you want some back up, I'll be happy to bring out my log and sit on his shoulder all day, with a smile of course ;D
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I've got 10 years on the national team, I'll hold him under with just my big toe, it's amazing to see what a little toe hold combined with a simple splash of water will do to a mans fighting spirit.
I had another run in today, I'm kinda fired up.
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Now, now, guys, take his waves, but don't go all "Point Break" medieval on him, you'll never un-dork him.
It's kind of like hardcore nerds, you will never un-nerd them. I know, I am nerdish.
You are right, though, that was intentional from pop up to impact.
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Explain it to me please…
Yes, the longboarder appears to make a beeline for the SUP'er, but shouldn't the paddle out be behind the guys who are taking off on the wave?
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I did the water polo dunk one time. It worked.
On the kinder side, ask him about his water polo experience. Whatever the answer, you can guide the conversation from there.
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Explain it to me please…
Yes, the longboarder appears to make a beeline for the SUP'er, but shouldn't the paddle out be behind the guys who are taking off on the wave?
It's Doheny, paddlers are not allowed on that side.
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Explain it to me please…
Yes, the longboarder appears to make a beeline for the SUP'er, but shouldn't the paddle out be behind the guys who are taking off on the wave?
It's like walking down a busy street with pedestrians passing each other in opposing directions. From your experience walking in this situation you can read the on coming people and move left or right. If someone is riding a bike towards you, you and everyone else will give the bike space. From your experience you know how much room the bicyclist is going to need. A kid with less experience might walk right into the bike. The experienced cyclist can also recognize the kid and slow down or alter their course as to not hit the kid.
The more you surf and have experience reading the line up, the sharper your responses will be. I had been zig-zagging prior to that impact, reading who might catch the wave in front of me, and made adjustments to give them space. When you are paddling out against the current and wave force, you don't generate much speed so your reaction time is much slower than the person who is catching the wave. They have more speed and more options. They can temporarily straighten out and make a late bottom turn, or take a high line, or stall, etc. in order not to hit someone in front of them. The right-of-way is a continual dance. Catching waves and being respectful of who has position, and who is just oblivious to that is more frustrating. Making adjustments to intentionally run into someone is just saying I feel I own this beach.
The State Parks are reinforcing these proners belief in that. They are basically saying, if the Longboard Surfing Club doesn't want you, then neither do we. This is probably one of the reason the BOP moved.
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Mate he could have easy missed you regardless, even if you were in the wrong place. (Not saying you were).
In fact it looks to me like he would have been better to bottom turn around you anyway?
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Explain it to me please…
Yes, the longboarder appears to make a beeline for the SUP'er, but shouldn't the paddle out be behind the guys who are taking off on the wave?
It's Doheny, paddlers are not allowed on that side.
Bingo! Also, if you can't navigate a ton of people on the inside while on a wave, you should not be surfing Doho. That is some bullshit TallDude! He clearly veered high to hit you. There were more bad vibes from the prone crowd this morning, and the guards posted 2 signs showing where SUP's go (I didn't see those yesterday). I'm just going to ignore anything proners say to me from now on.
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The past few times I've been out at Doho have increasingly gotten worse. I thought it was because I got to surf my old break back in RI recently where 15 people makes a crowd and thought I just needed to get used to this congestion again but this thread makes me rethink that now. I haven't had any personal experiences at Doho lately but the vibe in general just blows. I hate that other people can't be relaxed in the ocean and just enjoying the fact that they're able to be there.
A couple months ago, I saw an old crusty longboarder, some dude with a mustache and full pad on his Infinity longboard, literally jump off his board and attempt to punch another proner in the face because he dropped in on him. They wrestled around in the water for about 15 seconds and then both were out of breath so they climbed back on their boards and proceeded to tell each other to go f**k off about 20 times. It was unreal. Everyone around them, proners and standups, all basically said in unison, dude this is 1 ft. Doho... are you for real? This particular mustached douche has had words with me before because I was north of the hammer, that's all. Not because I dropped in on him or because I was taking too many waves or because I'm ugly or that I smelled, but simply because "I wasn't allowed there". He drives an old white Ford Ranger in case you happen to see him in the parking lot...say hi and tell him it's a beautiful day, he'll probably be so confused that he won't know what to do. He's one miserable dude. Probably friends with blue rashy.
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There are times I wish I was out there.....probably very good though that I'm not.
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Stoneaxe, I would love to see you in that mix for the entertainment value. But it wouldn't be worth it when they are putting you in the back of a squad car.
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Running over a 6-8 tall dude on a SUP on purpose......serious lack of mental capacity
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Wow!!! Are you going to show this to the authorities?
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The Local Authorities are the source of the problem. What are they going to do. "Hey come on you guys. Be nice to those Sweepers. But if those Sweepers cross into your area, we'll bull horn them and tell them to get the hell south the line."
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It is hard to believe the guy did not see you and purposely ran in to you. What is wrong with people? Hopefully it was not intentional and the guy is just incompetent. I am curious to see how his board fared in the collision.
Please give us a detailed description of this guy so we can introduce ourselves appropriately.
On a side note I heard last week a SUP dropped in on a proner then bailed and took out the proner's fin box. Accidents do happen.
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What about the authority of authorities?
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It is hard to believe the guy did not see you and purposely ran in to you. What is wrong with people? Hopefully it was not intentional and the guy is just incompetent. I am curious to see how his board fared in the collision.
Please give us a detailed description of this guy so we can introduce ourselves appropriately.
On a side note I heard last week a SUP dropped in on a proner then bailed and took out the proner's fin box. Accidents do happen.
He looked like the alien monster stalking Tom Skerritt in the ventilation shafts of the Nostromo, a bee line.
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The mayor and the city council, etc., might view this differently. Instead of keeping this in the zone, since it is on video, let it loose.
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Be careful what you ask for especially when dealing with elected officials. Historically the sport has deal with events like this on the water. If you have the skills a long hold down can do wonders to someones "attitude". I could be handled in the parking lot but any physical exchange on land is looked at a lot differently then on the water.
Complaining to authority could be counter productive as they may use the incident as an excuse to keep SUP out of the lineup.
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It's Doheny, paddlers are not allowed on that side.
I'm reading this to mean that the pile of rocks in the center of the video is some kind of dividing line. Is that correct?
It's like walking down a busy street with pedestrians passing each other in opposing directions. From your experience walking in this situation you can read the on coming people and move left or right. If someone is riding a bike towards you, you and everyone else will give the bike space. From your experience you know how much room the bicyclist is going to need. A kid with less experience might walk right into the bike. The experienced cyclist can also recognize the kid and slow down or alter their course as to not hit the kid.
The more you surf and have experience reading the line up, the sharper your responses will be. I had been zig-zagging prior to that impact, reading who might catch the wave in front of me, and made adjustments to give them space. When you are paddling out against the current and wave force, you don't generate much speed so your reaction time is much slower than the person who is catching the wave. They have more speed and more options. They can temporarily straighten out and make a late bottom turn, or take a high line, or stall, etc. in order not to hit someone in front of them. The right-of-way is a continual dance. Catching waves and being respectful of who has position, and who is just oblivious to that is more frustrating. Making adjustments to intentionally run into someone is just saying I feel I own this beach.
The State Parks are reinforcing these proners belief in that. They are basically saying, if the Longboard Surfing Club doesn't want you, then neither do we. This is probably one of the reason the BOP moved.
I don't doubt that he went for you intentionally, I just wondered if it was because you had violated some sacred statute of surfing etiquette and in his mind he needed to teach you a lesson, much the same way some in this thread are suggesting you drown him just a little bit to teach him a lesson. In light of your explanation and PB's info, I agree with the general consensus: he's just an aggro asshole.
If you really want to make an impression, take him to small claims court for the repair costs. No lawyers required, and your chances of monetary recovery are really good since you've got video of the run-in.
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Yup. On the end of it is a concrete thingy called the hammer. SUPs are not allowed past it. It's long past time to make that rule go away.
TallDude is a much more rational guy than I am, If someone did that to me there would be blood in the water--mine or his. If nothing else I'd bite him. That's at least the equivalent of someone slapping your face. I imagine the moment passed without any response because you simply couldn't believe it happened. I recommend calmly removing all his lugnuts. Worked for me.
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So wrong on many levels. He possibly drops in on another guy causing the wave to break sooner. Wastes what may have been a fun wave. Risks his equipment that could potential end his session. He tried to harm someone. So whats the point he's trying to get across?....Sups take all the waves...sups have no etiquette...sups are dangerous?
Talldude - What was the conversation immediately after the incident?
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Me thinks catch him on video a few more times and he'll be ripe for assault charges. Bring your GoPro next time and bust this chump. I'd even rent one of those Hobie barges at the shop on the other side of the boneyard and let this guy come at you.
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Show it to the DA with the warning that if they don't address the idiot you will. He assaulted you and if he could turn into you as he did, he could have cut back and actually made the wave.
Why did you surf that? Not that you have any blame but that really looks like a weak wave and even more soo when you are stuck taking off at the end of the wave. We have a similar setup and boy do the crowds show up for the weak and wimpy and of coarse they own it attitude. I rarely go out there as it just is not worth it. I will bet churches was really going off that day.
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I think you'd have a tough time proving anything in court. The video is grainy at best. You'd have to prove a) that is you in the video. b) that was the surfer in question. c) that his intentions were malicious. It's not "assault", it's two guy participating in a sport with known risks (one of the risks is possible collision with other participants). While I know his actions were deliberate, I doubt you could prove it. Even if he admitted it was him in the video, all he has to say is that it was an accident. It sucks, but dealing with aggro assholes is the reality of Doho.
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If you catch him doing this on video several times, you can establish a pattern of recklessness or neglect. It may not be criminal but could make a case for negligence in civil court. You may even be able to file a restraining order against this guy. I would consider that stalking if he kept doing it to me. I'm not a lawyer so any attorneys please chime in.
Bottom line, whether court worthy or not, the threat of legal action is better than inaction. If all of the people on this thread that have had incidents with this person acted on this, you could probably run this person out of Doho. At minimum, file a police report to document the incidents. When there are enough complaints against the same person, the authorities may be compelled to investigate.
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My daughter sent me the link to this after I had seen it from the link here. I think you may become an internet phenom rather quickly. Somewhere between "Ain't nobody got time for that!" and a Rickroll.
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I asked a Hood River cop about this at Pine Street Bakery yesterday. He said the video would be supporting evidence. I've forgotten the language he used, but essentially the incident is your word against his (you can identify him) but with the video as support it's a lot stronger case.
It would be nice to have better video, but that's exhibit one. If you intentionally bump a pedestrian with your car it's assault with a deadly weapon (I didn't know that, I thought it was just a gentle way of saying "walk a little faster, eh"). He said people have gone to jail for that. He told me they took a guy into custody this summer for intentionally opening his car door in front of a bicyclist--a cop saw him do it, and then yell at the guy on the bike about weaving through traffic while he was laying on the ground). Slamming a surfboard into anyone at high speed is certainly a step up from that. He could have killed or maimed you.
I still think the proper response is in the water, under water. But it's not just a civil issue.
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I think you'd have a tough time proving anything in court. The video is grainy at best. You'd have to prove a) that is you in the video. b) that was the surfer in question. c) that his intentions were malicious. It's not "assault", it's two guy participating in a sport with known risks (one of the risks is possible collision with other participants). While I know his actions were deliberate, I doubt you could prove it. Even if he admitted it was him in the video, all he has to say is that it was an accident. It sucks, but dealing with aggro assholes is the reality of Doho.
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Not a horrible outcome if Talldude went to court and to get off, the guy had to argue that he hit Talldude because he was unable to control his prone board, either because he didn't have the skill to go around Talldude, or because prone boards are inherently uncontrollable. Capturing him telling the judge that would be a good video, also.
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I'm definitely big enough to hold my own, but I rarely go there. I can repair the damaged board myself. It's a little torn up glass.
Can you tell I've been cooling my jets? A couple of distance paddles helps.
I've grown up in this culture, and it's not my first run in with someone in the line-up. I'm thinking I'll go longboard at DoHo next week and find out his name. Then I'm going to find out if he is part of the Doheny Surf Club. If he's not part of the Surf Club, I will be surprised. If he is, maybe the word will get around that he is making them look bad. Capo Beach is a small community.
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Surfers have been shooting their boards at others, slashing tires, in general acting like immature spoiled little babies forever. Arrests won't stop it, it will just bring the authorities into the mix... regulation will be their answer.
I like the infiltrate approach. Join the Surf Club.... find out the marching orders, then maybe a complaint would swing the pendulum.... but the tried and true "line-up solution" has sufficed for more than half a century. You deal with it how YOU see fit... everyone has a different reaction.... only you know yours.
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I don't know.....sure looks like the long boarder took the high line intentionally(jerk) but it sure does not look the the SUP started digging in in earnest to get out of the way, like jamming with all his might to clear the lane. Avoid the issue and get out of the way, I try..... for whatever that is worth.
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Trust me Stoneaxe's presense would be enough!
JimK
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Surfers have been shooting their boards at others, slashing tires, in general acting like immature spoiled little babies forever. Arrests won't stop it, it will just bring the authorities into the mix... regulation will be their answer.
I don't think violence solves the problem. It only subjects you to the same legal problems. Ask the attorney in Santa Cruz if he is still tagging cars. A restraining order could be a very nice outcome where he has to leave because you paddled out.
It looks like tall dude had is paddle in the way of getting hurt. Had the paddle been on the other side the ahole may have hit him head on.
Also for the gratification response of feeding ahole the paddle that time is long gone. As of now ahole has gotten away with it. Who will be next.
Regulation already exists. Tall dude was limited to taking off on the shoulder because sup was not allowed on the peak. This is the root of the whole problem. Ahole was enforcing the rule playing tap out. He is being enabled by the discriminatory rules.
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Surfers have been shooting their boards at others, slashing tires, in general acting like immature spoiled little babies forever. Arrests won't stop it, it will just bring the authorities into the mix... regulation will be their answer.
Ahole was enforcing the rule playing tap out. He is being enabled by the discriminatory rules.
These guys literally surf right on the line, because they feel they are the self appointed enforcers of these rules. Arm with their boards that they are willing to shoot at man or woman SUP'r. I've seen it. It's there everyday. The are backed by the lifeguards too.
If you saw the whole video (which I didn't post), I was zig-zagging though a 4' to 5' set that just cleared. I had given way to a number of people. There was a lot of moving water swirling around the hammer that prevents you from getting any speed up. Maybe I could have paddled faster, but this guy had plenty of room.
The bottom line is, I though I might have over reacted getting in his face right when it happened. I mean, I hadn't seen the video, so maybe he was avoiding someone else? I went over to him to apologize, and he said " Just protecting OUR LINE." Meaning it just totally intentional. He could have just ridden the wave all the way, but he choose to intentionally damage my board. As to confirmed his aggression, earlier that day, he paddled behind JayInSoCal and pretended to accidentally catch Jason's leach and tried to pull him off his board.
I'm kind-of over it, but it's not over....
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I think you'd have a tough time proving anything in court. The video is grainy at best. You'd have to prove a) that is you in the video. b) that was the surfer in question. c) that his intentions were malicious. It's not "assault", it's two guy participating in a sport with known risks (one of the risks is possible collision with other participants). While I know his actions were deliberate, I doubt you could prove it. Even if he admitted it was him in the video, all he has to say is that it was an accident. It sucks, but dealing with aggro assholes is the reality of Doho.
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Not a horrible outcome if Talldude went to court and to get off, the guy had to argue that he hit Talldude because he was unable to control his prone board, either because he didn't have the skill to go around Talldude, or because prone boards are inherently uncontrollable. Capturing him telling the judge that would be a good video, also.
Yep, would you really care if you won and he had to pay? All the better for sure but just himself and you before the judge. I have not sat in a lineup but watching that it is obvious to anyone what happened there. It would be kind of a pain and I not sure I would either but it actually is extremely simple to file in small claims.
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Surfers have been shooting their boards at others, slashing tires, in general acting like immature spoiled little babies forever. Arrests won't stop it, it will just bring the authorities into the mix... regulation will be their answer.
I like the infiltrate approach. Join the Surf Club.... find out the marching orders, then maybe a complaint would swing the pendulum.... but the tried and true "line-up solution" has sufficed for more than half a century. You deal with it how YOU see fit... everyone has a different reaction.... only you know yours.
Have followed this thread and this answer would be mine.
There's another vid of a prone guy flying up over white water and hitting another prone square in the back with his fins. Fine young cannibals.
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My response to his "protecting our line" comment would be do it again and my response will be self defense....See how he likes me turning the nose in his direction and popping it 4' off the water...charge that mofo! That might be a bit much though...maybe better to let him try and run over your nose again but just lift the nose a foot before he gets there...take him out at the ankles.
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So if SUPs aren't allowed south of the hammer are proners confined to north of the hammer?
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My response to his "protecting our line" comment would be do it again and my response will be self defense....See how he likes me turning the nose in his direction and popping it 4' off the water...charge that mofo! That might be a bit much though...maybe better to let him try and run over your nose again but just lift the nose a foot before he gets there...take him out at the ankles.
It's very sad that it's come to this. "protecting OUR line", like children in the back seat of the car on a cross country road trip.... "Mommmmmmm! Matthew crossed onto MY side of the back seat". Going in the water with the goal of protecting a boundary instead of going out to have fun and emit good vibes is just wrong.
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So if SUPs aren't allowed south of the hammer are proners confined to north of the hammer?
This is the question at Dogpatch. Proners allowed in the SUP zone but not the other way around. I remember one day this summer when there were at least 30 people in a surf class totally overwhelming things south of the OK sign and not one eyebrow was raised by the LGs or rangers.
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It truly does suck that it's come to that but if someone attacks me I'm hitting back.
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It sounds like the only damage sustained was to the board and no bodily injury. I'd file a small claims action against the @$$hole. Costs: $30 filing fee for damages less than $1500; $50 to $75 (free if a buddy can do it for you) for service of the claim (because this is an act that caused property damaged, your attorney [wink wink] can request through the DMV the @$$hole's address), if not just wait for him on the sand and then have him served. There is a good chance that he'll not appear in court and thus you win by "default" ... the video is one heck of evidence.
If a money judgment and he refused to pay ... garnish his wages/take his board and sell it, etc. Judgment is good for 10 years, renewable for another 10 years before expiration.
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Devil's advocate here. I wasn't there, so I don't actually know. But could it be that the guy was falling and out of control, couldn't turn, so it wasn't an intentional crash? It looked like he was falling before he hit you. Stop the vid at 0:05 and see. Not sure, but seemed like out of control to me. Doesn't excuse it, he should have gone low and there wouldn't have been a problem. But it looked like he was falling on his inside rail.
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There a particular reason to pick at that old scab?
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The previous post was about a month ago, not that old. Particular reason to call me out for making an observation?
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I confess I was thinking the same thing.
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He told me flat out "he was just protecting the line"..... Earlier that day he pulled JayInSoCal's leash trying to get him to fall. The guy is a douche. I've let it go, but we know who he is.
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He told me flat out "he was just protecting the line"..... Earlier that day he pulled JayInSoCal's leash trying to get him to fall. The guy is a douche. I've let it go, but we know who he is.
In that case, I retract my statement. That guy is a JERK!
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never been near doheny but seems the rule empowers the self-appointed dbag protector of the line, where under normal circumstances people would work shit out---and there will always be dbags, but one wonders if this one would be so aggro if he didnt feel empowered by the rule
i have reined in my tendency to stand/defend ground as I age--have friends who were in the "right" get pretty damaged standing up to dbags--not worth it---walked-on pride gnaws at a guy for a bit, but he lives on ok--that's top priority at this point
that said if i am threatened or not allowed to walk away i will summon up the ugly shit of my NYC youth--havent needed to in years, thankfully
and with a dbag like that comin at you--cross checking is certainly allowed, if not encouraged.
peace/love
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Talldude, has that ever happened to you out there before? Do you surf that spot frequently? How long did you prone surf before you started stand up paddle surfing? Is there any possibility that he and other surfers could be angry that you tend to be in the way of other surfers more than others? No accusations at all, I promise, but I'm just curious if that could be a factor.