Standup Zone Forum
Stand Up Paddle => Gear Talk => Topic started by: RunningBull on September 13, 2014, 07:09:31 AM
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I have been supping for a year and started catching a lot of waves but going pretty much straight. I am 6'1 205 lbs. I want to learn to carve. I surf mostly in choppy florida wind swell meaning 3 -foot waves. I am considering a starboard hero or 9'10 nalu. Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated.
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I have been supping for a year and started catching a lot of waves but going pretty much straight. I am 6'1 205 lbs. I want to learn to carve. I surf mostly in choppy florida wind swell meaning 3 -foot waves. I am considering a starboard hero or 9'10 nalu. Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated.
what re u rideing now??
when i frist started i did the samething and one day i just had to learn that i need to get back on the tail a little bit and turn in to the wave face after that start trying to catch the wave at a little bit of a angle or catch the wave going straight then once u on the wave quikly move back to tail alittle bit and use paddle to help u turn the paddle is your best freind keep it in the water.
watch other sup surfing and pic it in your head how to do it and with time your body will follow i do it all time at work in my sleep even times when i shouldn't be if u know what i mean lol... now go out there and put some weight on that rail. :) :)
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Helps a lot to watch some videos on how to surf. The technique is the same no mater what the board is,
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I am on a starboard whopper which I really like. It is super easy to catch a wave on and a great flat water paddler. When I step back on the tail I find the board stops. When I lean in the rail it does turn a bit. The hero is like a mini whopper so I thought it would be a logical progression. Thanks for the response. And yes I am watching tons of sup surfing videos. It always is more the Indian than the arrow though the whopper helped a lot in catching mushy waves in florida chop.
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Whoppers turn just fine, but they like some rail pressure. Try moving your back foot to the rail on the side you want to turn towards. Make it a purposeful move--not a shuffle. You don't need to step back a lot if you are in a trimmed position to begin with, just shift your weight from centered to mostly over your back foot. Bending your knees makes this easier--don't lean back like the tin man. Or maybe in your case like a cigar store indian.
Remember to look where you want to go.
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The reason I have always been such an Allwave fan is because it is such an easy board for a big or balance challenged guy to use. You can go pretty short and still have great stability in a board that surfs really well.
I got my 8'10 when I weighed 40 lbs more than you, and rode it all winter in New England with no problem. It surfs really well, great tail rocker that makes it turn easily.
It handled any size surf I found..... a great board that will cover all the bases for you. You should try to demo the 8'11 & 9'1 to see what best suits you.
I am 66 and weigh 225. I just ordered the brand new Allwave shape in 8'5 length.
Here's a video of me riding my 2013 8'10 Allwave on January 15th.... it's a head cam video... but should give you an idea how well it floats me and how it surfs in head high waves.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZCooCJV_qI
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Learning how to turn is also next on my agenda. My retarded feet are finally starting to wake up after a lifetime of hibernation. I can adjust my step back two or three times before the wave hits depending on what it looks like over my shoulder, and I am no longer a complete Egyptian hieroglyphic or cigar store Indian surfer. I am also approaching my first anniversary of stand up surfing on SUP.
For me, it seems to come down to pushing outside my comfort zone. I have the tendency to just want to enjoy the ride rather than explore the hydrodynamics.
I figure I am not ready for the primetime lineup until I have reasonably controlled turning skills, which will probably take a while with the Santa Cruz mushers. I am beginning to feel an arc when I bend and stand up for moving around the gravity and momentum points.
Love your vids, Supthecreek, where you demo your experienced foot movements, it shows the ballet required for the waves.
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Thanks for the advice and yes good pun on my screen name. I like the video of the cape cod surfing just looks a bit cold. I noticed my feet were naturally moving towards turning rail side. How much does the fanatic 9' 5 weigh and 9'1? Thanks for advice I learn a lot on here.
Respectfully rb
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The reason I have always been such an Allwave fan is because it is such an easy board for a big or balance challenged guy to use. You can go pretty short and still have great stability in a board that surfs really well.
I got my 8'10 when I weighed 40 lbs more than you, and rode it all winter in New England with no problem. It surfs really well, great tail rocker that makes it turn easily.
It handled any size surf I found..... a great board that will cover all the bases for you. You should try to demo the 8'11 & 9'1 to see what best suits you.
I am 66 and weigh 225. I just ordered the brand new Allwave shape in 8'5 length.
Here's a video of me riding my 2013 8'10 Allwave on January 15th.... it's a head cam video... but should give you an idea how well it floats me and how it surfs in head high waves.
+1 I agree on all counts. Do go too long, go for an 8'10" AllWave. The AllWaves are as stable as bigger boards, but still surf well. I'm much smaller and lighter than supthecreek, and I can still turn well and have fun on my AW 8'10"
I was afraid of going that short when I bought the AW last winter, but I'm glad I didn't waste time with bigger boards. You have a big board, now get something that will perform in the surf.
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Remember to look where you want to go.
As simple and possibly insignificant as that might sound....it's amazing just how true that is.
First realized (stumbled into?) it a year or so back, when I was surfing some pretty quick, head high, closeout stuff, and was on one particularly fast, large, and closing out one....when I saw this one rapidly disappearing little exit just down from me. I dropped to build up speed, "never taking my eye off the prize", hit the bottom, and just went for it.
Much to my surprise (and immense joy) the board found the last little hole in the closing zipper, and launched me out the back, and well out of harm's way.
After that, turning and directing the board, all a sudden took on a whole new method....just look where you want to go, and let the body's reactions take care of the rest. Yes, maybe a little overly simplified, but really an important cue that shouldn't be dismissed or over-looked.
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RB,
I'm in the same boat as you, surfing straight in FL mush. I traded in a 10'6 all rounder for the SB Hero. I love this thing, however we haven't had any descent waves around here (Panhandle) until recently. I've been practicing buoy turns, and can do 360's in swell/chop. Hope I'm ready for riding real waves....properly.
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The advice helped a lot. I just carved a wave this am just by looking back and applying modest amounts of pressure on the same side rail. Just the subtle head movement and I turned back into the top of the wave.
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Guys.. Here's a longboarder from Japan who has very interesting ways of presenting information we all need/use. (in english..)
http://alohaki.jugem.jp
....and I will second everybody else's nod to the Allwave and add a Yes to Zoo's post. I had the 9-6 AW and traded for a 9-2 AW. The 9-6 was waaay too corky and now the 9-2 has begun to feel the same for my 180lbs. (shaved 10lbs after switching from Kites to SUP)
Jim
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Good for you, bull. When you start going for backside turns, moving your back foot to the rail becomes even more important. I move my foot before I start the turn. My backside turns suck, but they'd be a lot worse if I didn't do that.
You are right, it's not the arrow, it's the Indian. You can turn on any reasonable board. Unless you're just anxious to get something new, I'd stick with what you have until you master all the basics. That means be able to turn in both directions, get out through a tough beachbreak, catch the waves you want. Do a bottom turn and a top turn, and be able to pull out of a wave in several ways. There's no reason you can't do those all on a Whopper.
Great link, wetstuff.
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The fanatics are super corky. I have a fly wave 10'6 my all rounder in hrs. It is super durable and amazingly stable. But not great for wave riding as it is so thick. I wonder if the allwaves are somewhat similar. The key to the whopper's wave catching prowess is it is thin yet wide. I am interested in buying a short board like 9 feet or so but was leaning towards the hero or sb widepoint 9
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"until you master all the basics. That means be able to turn in both directions, get out through a tough beachbreak, catch the waves you want."
Gee, is that all? I guess I'll have to wait until I'm 70 to join the lineup.
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"For me, it seems to come down to pushing outside my comfort zone. I have the tendency to just want to enjoy the ride rather than explore the hydrodynamics."
Outside of the board choice, this may be the more important point---pushing past the comfort zone on whatever one is riding. This has been exactly my issue; I find that I too often allow myself to want to ride the wave without wrecking, which means staying conservative.
Can't do that if you want to improve.
How to do that?
SupSurfIsSurf and I went to Trails about 2 months ago and decided we were going to have a "radical" (radical for us anyhow) session by pushing each other to really get on the tail, force more aggressive turns, and trying to smack the lip. We found an open spot with punchy 3-5 foot waves about 150 meters from any prone surfers and then went to school, blowing ourselves up frequently as we pushed past our limits. It would have made the SUP surfing wipeouts highlights reel.
It was a great way to shuffle up the learning curve and I need to have more "go big or go home" sessions like that. In the usual more crowded lineup, though, I am a bit hyper careful about not hurting anyone and I don't want to give proners ammo about how SUPers can't handle their boards, so I surf much more conservatively.
I guess the answer is to seek out more remote spots or odd times so we can learn from going bananas.
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If you ain't falling you ain't tryin. You are already the biggest dork out there the minute you drive up with your boat ;) and you got a leash, and it's mushy. You may get a few bumps and bruises, so get to turnin and never go straight, (well actually, many waves dictate the route of downz zee the line, but you have a few months to go before charging Chopes ;D) I make a point to try something new or master something I suck at every day out on the water.
And, are you learning to carve? Or turn? Two different skills, I personally feel, leaning to turn will lead to learning to carve. Carving is using your rail and the natural curve of your board to arc a turn. And turning your board is usually done from the tail of you board.
All good points so far, I have always stuck to the rule of the body follows the head. It works for all sports. There's a little more I would add. Try to keep your upper body quite and relaxed. Your elbows should be loose. Most of your tension in your upper body is released if you keep elbows relaxed. It's hard to do, watch all the stink bugs surfing, don't be a stink bug. Keep your chest tall as well, it helps keep your hips loose. You want to keep your legs bent slightly at all times. The turn initiates through your toes, bending your knees and sinking your hips, while keeping your upper body quite and loose. Watch Dave Kalama ski moguls, then watch him surf. You will see the mechanics of turning are the same.
Every sweet spot is different on every board. I ride Blair's boards. I feel they are the best all around board out there. He places his side fins further up than most. But you get a great performing board with his fin placements. I have about 15-20 boards from tow boards to sup guns and I have not found a better shaper, for me.
For turning, I place my back foot just behind the side fin and I bring my front foot in closer, so basically narrow my stance. This places your center of gravity over the fins, once you have initiated the turn you have to widen your stance and move your weigh towards front foot, that will allow you to keep forward momentum. An easy way to learn this is using the speed of initially catching the wave. If your going left, paddle and take off going right, as the inertia of wave pushes you, use that speed and turn aggressively left, keep your weight forward and you will still have speed.
Carving is hard to learn in mushy waves, I feel. You need speed and steepish wave. Carving is more about body position and trusting your rail. You can use the paddle to lay out some of the meanest bottom turns. Work on your turns first, but surfing, to me is all about carving big turns and speed. You'll get there, if your asking and the will is there, then i bet you'll have it down soon.
I
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Does "going straight" mean riding the white water straight in? Sounds like you want to learn how to go "down the line" or ride clean water in front of the curl. That is hard to learn on a sloppy beach break.
I'd start with a boogie board. Knowing where you want the board to go is the first step, and a BB is a super easy way to learn the basics.
Consider a surf trip. You will learn a lot quicker on the right type of wave.
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goodfornothing u r now goodforsomething. Excellent intel.
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the easiest way is to hire Kalama for a day or two. Expensive, but he won't let you go straight. One of the gals I see often at Kanaha is a nice lady named Laurie. She was kind of an indifferent surfer until she hired Dave to prep her for a contest. Now she won't go ten yards without ripping the top off the wave.
Of course you don't need Dave to make yourself do the right stuff. Just imagine there's a very muscular Hawaiian guy ten inches behind you yelling "Commit! Turn, turn, turn! Put your knees into it! Watch where you want to go! Reach, dammit!"
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the easiest way is to hire Kalama for a day or two. Expensive, but he won't let you go straight. One of the gals I see often at Kanaha is a nice lady named Laurie. She was kind of an indifferent surfer until she hired Dave to prep her for a contest. Now she won't go ten yards without ripping the top off the wave.
Of course you don't need Dave to make yourself do the right stuff. Just imagine there's a very muscular Hawaiian guy ten inches behind you yelling "Commit! Turn, turn, turn! Put your knees into it! Watch where you want to go! Reach, dammit!"
I think I'll just hire you and give you a bullwhip. I'm sure I would learn it in a day, but I would need a kevlar wetsuit.
I did some turning this morning on the low tide beach break surf around the Hook, but it was pretty rudimentary and the waves were mostly mush. I also got hit by a lady driver. She looked like she could turn just fine, but I must have reminded her of an ex husband.
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The Hammer it wouldn't say its a beginner board but its super easy to use.
It turns like a high performance prone long board. It just super easy but a beginner
will need to get used to how fast it reacts. Its really telepathic you think turn and it does.
You can slow it down with the right fin setup a thruster setup would be good to start with.
Then when you get better no need to change to a higher performance board unless
you want to go down in size.
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I know some of you guy and gals are a little older and probably can't picture yourself skateboarding, but it is a great learn tool. I learned to surf along time ago. I wouldn't consider myself good, but I could catch waves and go down the line. Skateboarding made me a better surfer. I rode everyday for years. I still own a skateboard and skated my neighbors ramp a few years ago when I was 49. Great work out! I've thought about building a old guys 1/2 pipe with a harness and overhead cable (like the rock climbing wall setup). 'Shark Tank'!
Skateboarding is so much like surfing, they imitate each other. If want to practice surfing, do it in your drive way, or at a park, or on a nice empty sloping street on a skateboard. Get a big long nice carving skateboard, and practice practice. You don't have to wait for a set, or a surf outing, just grab your skateboard and carve it up. Wear a helmet, pads and wrist guards please, but you can do it. Leaning and turning, using your hips, and getting in tune with how each board turns. Here is a cool video on just this....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycpafeySMfk
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That's a good video, unexpectedly. Aside from the babe factor, it was good for seeing the motions involved and her explanations are understandable.
I don't think I have seen too many dudes around Santa Cruz my age on skateboards, but it's a thought.
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A retired buddy of mine rides his Kahuna Stick almost everyday down Coast hwy. He surfs but doesn't paddle surf. He loves to paddle that dry land though. This might feel more comfortable, rather than just skateboarding with nothing in your hands.
RIP :,( Buttons..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hx0ifdQJhvg
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Great suggestions and videos TallDude. I thought I was one of the only guys over 40 who still attempts to skateboard--on a Sector Nine given to me in an elevator in New York City by a medical school student. Apparently I should be using mine much more than I have been.
Superb also to see Buttons living on through video, but I have to admit that the Holly Beck ones always catch my attention. She's smart, personable, athletic, beautiful, creative and cool. My brain feels like it's been put through a Nutribullet every time I see her in something. If I only I was 20 lbs lighter, 20 years younger, and had more hair on my head than I have on my back....
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That's a good video, unexpectedly. Aside from the babe factor, it was good for seeing the motions involved and her explanations are understandable.
I don't think I have seen too many dudes around Santa Cruz my age on skateboards, but it's a thought.
Don't know your age "cheat", but mine's 54 and a buddy of mine turned me on to the Carver Monsta skateboard, and I'm on it quite a bit....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ydbx_hBfXjc
(Skip ahead to 3:25 if you don't want to hear a lot of "sales-like" chatter)
I gotta say, it does make a big difference it learning/trying new things a whole bunch of times on land before you go out and attempt it in the water. I do have a adjustable Kahuna Big Stick, but find I have more fun, and learn more with just the Carver by itself.
So just grab a board and go SUPcheat....hell, we ride SUPs out in the water, it's way to late now to start worrying about what other people think of us doing what we do for fun.
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I still use my longboards, but I gear up like I'm going to war. I've got a 59" Bombora that's a lot of fun, but at 67, with virtually every joint seeming a bit fragile, I'm pretty careful. Oddly enough I feel more comfortable on a mountain board with some brakes, or sailing my mountain board sans brakes at the beach with a windsurfing sail hooked to the universal I screwed to the nose. I guess dirt and sand just seems more forgiving--even though I have plenty of proof to the contrary.
Despite a lifetime of racing motorcycles and cars and doing stupid stuff on land, air, and water, most of my injuries come from skateboarding and rollerblading. I'm pretty good on rollerblades, sort of like a dancing bear. Haven't done it for a long time, but both of my serious shoulder injuries were rollerblade hockey and my weak ankle is from racing my daughter on skateboards.
I guess the bottom line is that skateboarding might be good for your surfing as long as you don't get hurt doing it, in which case you'll be benched for quite a while. So gear up, all the time. My worst shoulder injury was from a rollerblade fall when I didn't have elbow pads on. I ALWAYS wore elbow pads, except that one time.
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I have appointments this week Monday and Wednesday inland, but I might drive back to Santa Cruz for the day for the Tuesday break. Surf reports say up to 5-7 feet, so maybe I can get some four footers on the inside and practice turns. I'll just think about the chick on the skateboard, "cleavage left, cleavage right, cleavage straight ahead!"
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RBull,
Like you, I surf the Florida coast (I'm in Miami).
I began on a 10.6 C4 Classic and while others could carve that board I couldn't at the time. Like many others here, I finally learned to turn when I got a Fanatic Allwave. Surfing primarily Florida wind chop mush, I got a 9.6. That board really helped me break through. I'm now on a 9.1 Naish Hokua and loving it.
I still have the Allwave. Let me know if you're heading down this way and you can take it out.
Jorge
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The video of the hotties skateboarding alone makes this thread solid gold. Jorge thanks for the offer.
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I took a while off from skating my Bombora. Got back on it today. Did a 6 mile barefoot skate with my big stick down the pathway along the canal. Man, it's just so much fun!!! And yes, as the young hotties suggest, it does teach you how to get your carve on! Best thing is you don't have to be a "skater" to get the hang of it.
Heck, on one of our sister forums they have an entire category dedicated to Street SUP!!!
To give you an idea how stable and potentially fun the Bombora is:
http://vimeo.com/73718528 (http://vimeo.com/73718528)
I'm in no way as talented as that cat. I just like cruising and carving barefoot. Sometimes I stand both feet forward and glide like on a sup but mostly carve.
Today, I decided I want something more compact (Bombora is a beast at 59" long) in my quiver so I just purchased the Shaka Surf model (46" fish):
(https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=shaka+surf+kahuna&source=images&cd=&docid=DkkWL4yPh9USPM&tbnid=hSEDc8TiaN0rbM:&ved=0CAcQjRw&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fkahunacreationseurope%2Ftimeline&ei=_BkeVKGOL8idygS49ILQBQ&psig=AFQjCNFVGq4SmpRY00DLy9CgmATHFEa1EQ&ust=1411344356957036)
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An appropriately-sized right off the rack Fanatic Allwave with its user-friendly forgiving shape, flat deck and fuller rails will get you where you want to be.
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Holy cow "free", that was some just incredible cross-stepping skating....thanks for posting that!!
Hard to imagine all of the falls, and stumbles that he must have gone through to get that good, but sure glad that he did....so fun to watch.
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Yeah...but can he surf!?!
Geeze that guy is incredible.
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ya, the guy is unreal!
and if you prefer a skate reduction there is always the carver mini simmons ;D ;D ;D
(http://cdn3.volusion.com/c5qop.mug4k/v/vspfiles/photos/carver_mini_simmons-1.jpg)
http://carverskateboards.myshopify.com/collections/surfskate/products/27-5-mini-sims (http://carverskateboards.myshopify.com/collections/surfskate/products/27-5-mini-sims)
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I took a while off from skating my Bombora. Got back on it today. Did a 6 mile barefoot skate with my big stick down the pathway along the canal. Man, it's just so much fun!!! And yes, as the young hotties suggest, it does teach you how to get your carve on! Best thing is you don't have to be a "skater" to get the hang of it.
Free, I had to turn that video off... it was making me sick thinking how mangled that guy's feet were going to get if he wiped out at that speed doing one of those tricks! :o