Standup Zone Forum
Stand Up Paddle => Downwind and Racing => Topic started by: doctor_who on July 07, 2014, 12:32:28 PM
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Aloha to everyone.
I am trying to find the difference in numbers but as well in handling on the 2 SIC boards:
2014 Bullet 14 - "SCC" construction and
2014 Bullet 14 v2 - "SCC” construction.
Does anyone has any experience with those two boards ?
Their web site doesn't say much....
Thank you in advance.
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Aloha,
Last year I owned the the production 14 Bullet in SCC (actually first one off the line) and this year just replaced it with a Bullet V2 in SCC. Both boards share many of the same characteristics, ie planing hull, similar widths etc... The biggiest and most obvious change is the lower rocker of the V2, it makes the board much more efficient in flatwater. I just received it, but will post a review soon. I was quite amazed at how much lower the rocker is, even compared to my wife's 12,6 Bullet. I am loving this board! It is going to make a fantastic winter training board, a downwind weapon, maybe even a chop race board! Cannot comment on its large swell downwind ability as the winds have died here, I do know the 12,6 is excellent. The original may be more forgiving in close frequency swell but the V2 will be far more efficient. I downwind a lot on small swells with narrow race boards and think the V2 is equal on getting on to plane. Just way more stable. Will post a review soon.
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I believe both boards are 27.25" wide.
The regular 14' Bullet is a dedicated downwind board. Its absolutely killer in DW conditions.
The V2 14' Bullet is a hybrid shape which will potentially get you on the podium when the conditions turn nasty, and serve you well as a very fast downwind missile in even light wind. I tell people I think its the best all-around board of 2014...maybe even ever.
raf
owner of Soposup
SIC dealer and fan
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The entire Bullet line up are downwind boards. V1 obviously better for smoking conditions, tighter troughs. The V2, they flattened out some of the rocker line, which increases water length, to get on a little earlier. Obviously the less rocker means it's more technical. Mark always says, one board isn't always faster then the other. The variance between V1, V2, & V3 etc is more or less for type of downwind condition
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Thanks for your input. Few questions:
Which version is more forgiving to Downwind errors ?
Which version is for a newcomer to Downwind ?
Which version handles better side chop ?
I do have other boards (touring and flat) so I am searching for a DW SIC board.
Thanks
PS: Would it be possible for someone to upload some photos of ver2 ?
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Thanks for your input. Few questions:
Which version is more forgiving to Downwind errors ?
Which version is for a newcomer to Downwind ?
Which version handles better side chop ?
forgiving? you need to be more specific. I'm not sure what you mean by forgiving. If you dont know how to surf, your better off on a V1 with more rocker. Like I said V2 & V3 are flatter rocker, and more "technical to ride" But if your dealing with steep drops, eventually your either gonna ride the tail or end up in the water.
Anyboard can be used to go downwind, it just depends on your personal ability. It takes a lot more skill to ride a bigger board with less rocker. 12'6 often fit in the troughs so nice a slight shift in weight is all you need. But a 17'er requires a lot more skill to keep that nose out of the wave in front.
as far as side chop goes, ALL SIC boards handle side chop very well, they are built for Hawaiian waters, windy, swells, open ocean chop! all bullets, and F series boards have rounded rails leading to harder edges near the tail. They are very forgiving in rough conditions side chop is never an issue with rounded rails. I honestly cant say one is more stable then another.
Another design concept is stability, Mark designs his boards to be very stable. However the one variable he cannot control is paddler ability. If you think your just gonna get on the water and rip a downwinder like JR... like anything else it takes time to learn, it takes more time and practice to get fast.
You should be picking a board based on your type of prevailing downwind conditions.
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By forgiving I mean, if the board will allow me to correct my moves or just gona through me into the water. I am more on flat racing and upwind than downwind. So, I am searching for a board to learn with.
Thanks.
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Specialist DW boards like the Bullet, M14, Coreban Dart, Naish Glide etc are all easier to downwind than boards designed to be more flatwater capable. So they are more "forgiving" in that environment. The wider boards are generally easier and therefore faster when you are starting out. As you get better, you appreciate the ease with which the narrower boards will get you onto bumps especially in marginal conditions. The bigger and windier the conditions get, the harder flatwater boards become to use, and the more the specialist boards come into their own.
I think you've been given some really excellent advice here. I currently have 6 DW boards and have owned others. Each of them can be easiest and/or fastest on any given day, according to the conditions. The tricky thing is that it is hard to gauge ahead of time which one that will be. And what is fastest and easiest for one person maybe not for another who is different physically and in terms of skills.
Downwinding is a very technical skill - almost intellectual, sometimes. It comes with hours of practice and reading the sea. The more I do it the more I realise how little I know. It is of course also hugely demanding physically. You can be very "flat water fit" but still find yourself completely destroyed in double-quick time downwinding.
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....You can be very "flat water fit" but still find yourself completely destroyed in double-quick time downwinding...
How True !!!!
So I guess the ver. 1 is more of a "typical" DW board than the ver.2 which has a lower rocker, thus more technical. Will we all agree with this comment ?
Thanks,
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Yes, in downwinds the bigger rocker of the V1 will be less likely to poke than a V2 - so more forgiving. It's very well behaved. Also the V1 will be way more forgiving on your wallet!
One of our downwind gang is still waiting for his V2 so we haven't tried it yet. A buddy has a Rogue Rage though, which has a lower rocker a la V2. In downwinds one needs to move around a bit more on the Rogue than the Bullet V1, so it is slightly more technical but it really isn't as big a difference as you may be imagining. You need to move back on Bullet V1 or M14 anyway at times - depending on conditions. Moving back isn't that hard - you have time to do it and it's stable when you need to do it so it's a skill I find pretty rapid to get used to. All the downwind boards are great all-round but the lower rocker Rogue Rage is noticeable better on flats and chop - very fast.
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I agree with Yugi, but would like to add that I use to have a Coreban Alpha that was a typical DW shape with lots of nose rocker. If you do pearl with that board it would send you airborne instantly. With the Bullet 12 you have time to step back and usually the nose pops out. It’s probably the same with the 14 V2. On race boards the nose also pops out, but it sometimes will steer to the right or left quickly and throw you off the side.
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I heard (@video review) that the V1 more for “open ocean” conditions, where the V2 it is for "less" than these conditions.
Here in Greece, technically where I paddle, I do not have open ocean conditions (as @Hawaii)
and defiantly I do not do any island crossing...which means the difficulty is much less than you will expect @"open ocean".
Thanks.
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I have a fair amount of time on my 14' V3 (the hollow V2 version). Steering is instant and board is very fast on plane. You got to keep paddling to maintain glides but they're easy as butter strokes. You must use that rudder--going straight will spear the nose. Not the end of the world tho, it does resurface well. The light weight (21) makes getting into the smallest glides fairly easy. The difference with a 17 is that once you get the 17 rolling it flies right over all those little bumps and you get on the fast chair. I still twitch enough with my weighting that the 14 rolls where my 17 doesn't. Most time rolling scrubs speed but occasionally, at higher planing speeds, rolling can be a great way to maneuver thru a mogul field and not smack the nose. My opinion is that at 190, I'm up at the high end of the weight range for this board. My 11 yr old grandson is flying on it at 108 lbs. It behaves for him like the 17 does for me. He's also a powerhouse. Just set the Hawaiian record for 200 back for 11-12 age group.
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headmount's back yard is Maliko so he's got some good advise on downwind expectations.
Yes, the V1 is more forgiving in the sense that it's not as technical to ride as the V2 and V3. And better to have in epic wind. If you have no downwind know how, you'd find the V1 easier to ride then the V2 or V3. If your more experienced, the V2/V3 would be my choice.
I think you guys are over thinking this, ALL bullets are open ocean capable, after all hawaii is the breeding ground for all things SIC. it's not a question of being open ocean or not. I think it's a question of both local downwind swell period type, and personal ability, if it's downwind you'll have fun on either one. Another important factor is you need to remember the latest version doesn't supersede the last. All SIC versions are in full production, the introduction of the V3 doesn't render the V1 obsolete, it's just another option for different conditions or skill levels.
a perfect example is when the 17' V2 came out in Hawaii... everyone jumped on it. But a lot of guys went back to the V1 because it was a better board for certain conditions. Guys on Oahu love the V2, at the same time you'll find on Maui and the Big Island majority prefer the V1.
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I was recently lucky enough to get my hands on a new, Maui built, hollow moulded Bullet 14 V3(non ASS)for two days on Maui. (Thanks Mark!!)
At first it felt strange having been on a 17'4" for the previous 4 weeks.
Once I got used to it I started to have serious fun with it.
The first thing that struck me was the weight; this was the standard, non "ultralight layup" but it was still only 11 - 11.5kg.
It really catches bumps easily and gets up to speed with ease.
I did find myself pearling the nose at first but once I sussed out that you need to be quick to get it pointed down the line on the bump rather than straight ahead it it flies linking bumps with ease. (I was easily able to keep up with my mate on his production 17'4")
When it did pearl it still tracked dead straight.
When you get back on the tail it surfs really well. I had it with a straight spitfire type SIC fin and I reckon it would surf and handle even better with fin change.
I found the stability on par with the 17'4" bullet. Very very stable at 26.75".
It paddled very well on the flat section across Kahului harbour. Easier in a side wind than my 17'4" in fact.
I thoroughly enjoyed my time on the V3, I couldn't help but feel that combined with ASS to give you that ability to instantly point the nose where you want would make this a very fun 14' board for smaller DW conditions.
I'm looking forward to seeing the new production Bullet 14 V2 in Australia where I think it will suit our conditions very well.
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If you're looking for more of an entry level, learning to downwind board, you may want to check out the SIC F14 Wide Glide. At 30" wide this board is incredibly stable in all the conditions I've used it in, wind speeds and gusts at around 25-35, G30-35. I've paddled it on the North Coast of Santa Cruz CA and have done numerous Maliko's and a couple Kihei runs on the board. It never failed me, and is the definition of forgiving. When you outgrow it, it will be a board you can keep, using it for touring, fitness paddling, teaching friends how to SUP, having an extra board for friends to paddle, etc. In the month I used it on Maui it never dinged, no paint chips, just solid. I suppose the only downside is that it's a little on the heavy side. But that only underscores the board's durability. It won't be as fast as a Bullet if fast is what you're looking for, but I don't think you can go wrong with it as your first downwind board.
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How does the F-16 fit into mix
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I am about to buy a 14' Bullet and was wondering how important the ASS is ? I will be doing mostly downwinders on North Shore Oahu which is not as good as the South Shore but will take occasional trips to do the Hawaii Kai run. Do I really need the rudder? I am going to buy a board tomorrow so any input would be really appreciated.
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the rudder isn't necessary, like all things it depends on your rider skill. If you know how to surf, you'd probably have an easier time getting away with not having the Active Steering. There are quite a few guys who rock the fixed fin version. Anyone serious about downwind on a 14' board will find the rudder a must. If your paddling in wind not at your back, the rudder helps with tracking, and elimanates the "one sided" paddle, and in the end contributes to efficiency.
The F16 falls into the unlimited class category. The F16 or unlimited class Bullet series are for the die hard downwinders who want maximum glide time. Unlimited board are heavier then their shorter counterparts, may not accelerate as fast from a dead stop, but the glide and carry doesn't compare. what ever floats your style is what I say