Standup Zone Forum
Stand Up Paddle => SUP Marketplace => Ke Nalu => Topic started by: LM on June 24, 2014, 12:51:49 AM
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Ke Nalu's latest creation the "Konihi" is now available www.kenalu.com (http://www.kenalu.com). We're planning on running a Zone special but production and quantities are currently limited so we need to see how the dust settles first. If you're serious about racing or flat water performance the Konihi is a true game changer!
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So Lane, I am getting a little confused over paddle choices now, but in a good way. I have a Maliko on an xtuff(s) shaft and have been thinking about a new blade so I can pick up some speed with an increased turnover rate. I train pretty hard on mostly flatwater, large lake, with wind and confused boat wakes. Was thinking about the new Ho'oloa 95/84 and now you have this new Konihi 84/95 blade. Can you compare these for me and make a recommendation? 53% increase in price for Kohini versus Ho'oloa. Is it signifcantly better for high seed paddling?
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Can you post a photo of the winglet feature
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So Lane, I am getting a little confused over paddle choices now, but in a good way. I have a Maliko on an xtuff(s) shaft and have been thinking about a new blade so I can pick up some speed with an increased turnover rate. I train pretty hard on mostly flatwater, large lake, with wind and confused boat wakes. Was thinking about the new Ho'oloa 95/84 and now you have this new Konihi 84/95 blade. Can you compare these for me and make a recommendation? 53% increase in price for Kohini versus Ho'oloa. Is it signifcantly better for high seed paddling?
The best way to describe the difference between the blade choices is; it sort of feels like a gear change going from an original design blade (Wiki, Maliko, Molokai) to a Ho'oloa and again to a Konihi. The Konihi feels similar to the Ho'oloa but it's much more stable (even with effort, it's hard to make it flutter & if you do it recovers immediately) & has the before mentioned extra power feel to it. If you're really serious about your training or race at all the Konihi is probably worth the extra money. If you're not competing the Ho'oloa will probably be fine but if you want the best the Konihi won't disappoint.
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Can you post a photo of the winglet feature
They're a subtle thing, I'm a true believer in subtlety, in all things, but when designing things for use in air & water subtlety is absolutely essential. You don't want to "force" either air or water...they do what they do, it only takes a subtle hint to get water to react & that's all it took to get the winglets to work. They aren't an "in your face" obvious thing & in fact unless you're looking for them most would overlook them at a glance but hopefully this picture helps show them a bit better.
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Any chance you'll introduce a bent shaft version?
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How do you justify a $100 increase in blade price?
Is it production costs?
Newer material costs?
Whats the weight difference between all the elite blades?
It seems like the only real difference is the design.
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Any chance you'll introduce a bent shaft version?
A bent shaft is not likely but not 100% out of the question
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How do you justify a $100 increase in blade price?
Is it production costs?
Newer material costs?
Whats the weight difference between all the elite blades?
It seems like the only real difference is the design.
There are many factors to consider in the pricing of anything & much of which are things you'd never consider unless you've been through the process. Simple things like travel, design factors, specific prototyping factors, production costs, marketing...it's a lengthy list. Another consideration has to be the competitions pricing, we're not going to sell ourselves short especially when we think we have a superior product...why is a Mercedes more expensive than a Toyota?
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Thanks Lane. So now 84 versus 95. Have only used the Maliko. Have two of them. One for me and my wife. Do you think most moving from the Maliko blade would want a 95 or the 84? I would say that I am a power paddler, but want to increased my speed. Softer catch and larger sweet spot both sound interesting, but I want the end result to be an increase in my average speed. Seems that some users of the new Ho'oloa have chimed in that they are faster as compared to the 1st generation Ke nalu blades. Are you saying that the Kohini is getting even better reviews/results than the Ho'oloa or just a better feel? Do you think that you are faster with the Kohini? I know that is very difficult to quantify.
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Interesting design. I was just now getting the handle on the 95 Ho'oloa and the 84 Ho'oloa for surf and race. Got to say I like the Ho'oloa over the Maliko. Tried with xtufs and 100 shaft. Now need to look at this one
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MD, which size Ho'oloa did you like best for training/eacing, 84 or 95 versus Maliko?
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racing not "eacing". Oops!
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I really like the 95 for the size but the 84 was real smooth for paddling around. I have a more power stroke and not high cadence stroke so the 95 fits me good. Gave the 84 to the wife and she loves it. She is a high cadence high power racer that wins. I made the mention of this Konihi and showed her the pictures and she got real happy and mentioned something about an early birthday present.
The Ho'oloa paddle blade is lighter than the others and smoother. Wonder if the Konihi is even smoother and lighter? Lane?
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Thanks Lane. So now 84 versus 95. Have only used the Maliko. Have two of them. One for me and my wife. Do you think most moving from the Maliko blade would want a 95 or the 84? I would say that I am a power paddler, but want to increased my speed. Softer catch and larger sweet spot both sound interesting, but I want the end result to be an increase in my average speed. Seems that some users of the new Ho'oloa have chimed in that they are faster as compared to the 1st generation Ke nalu blades. Are you saying that the Kohini is getting even better reviews/results than the Ho'oloa or just a better feel? Do you think that you are faster with the Kohini? I know that is very difficult to quantify.
Since you mentioned you're a power paddler I'd definitely go with the 95. I've heard similar reports of people being faster with Ho'oloas. Since there aren't really many Konihis out yet (there's a handful in Australia & I've been getting nothing but positive reports) I haven't heard much yet regarding increased speed, in theory they should give you a little boost. I can say for sure the Konihi does offer a better feel over anything I've ever paddled but I haven't personally time compared the Konihi with the other paddles, I need to but when I get out paddling I forget, bad excuse but it's the truth. I have done LOTS of cross comparing with the three different designs & doing "quick switches" the differences in feel are really noticeable. I also had a friend visiting that had never tried SUP before (very athletic, pro mountain bike racer though). I thought he'd be a great "control" since he had no prior knowledge of any of the paddles. I started him off with a Wiki (I didn't tell him I was studying anything of course) he paddled around for a bit & then I said, "here switch with me, I need to see something with that one" & gave him the Ho'oloa, again he didn't say much because I wasn't fishing for a response at all. Then I gave him the Konihi & he took a few strokes & said, "Wow, this ones the best one for sure". So even a complete novice can feel the difference, what difference he was feeling I can't be sure, it could have simply been the improved stability (& these things are stable) for whatever that's worth...
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Thanks Lane. So now 84 versus 95. Have only used the Maliko. Have two of them. One for me and my wife. Do you think most moving from the Maliko blade would want a 95 or the 84? I would say that I am a power paddler, but want to increased my speed. Softer catch and larger sweet spot both sound interesting, but I want the end result to be an increase in my average speed. Seems that some users of the new Ho'oloa have chimed in that they are faster as compared to the 1st generation Ke nalu blades. Are you saying that the Kohini is getting even better reviews/results than the Ho'oloa or just a better feel? Do you think that you are faster with the Kohini? I know that is very difficult to quantify.
Since you mentioned you're a power paddler I'd definitely go with the 95. I've heard similar reports of people being faster with Ho'oloas. Since there aren't really many Konihis out yet (there's a handful in Australia & I've been getting nothing but positive reports) I haven't heard much yet regarding increased speed, in theory they should give you a little boost. I can say for sure the Konihi does offer a better feel over anything I've ever paddled but I haven't personally time compared the Konihi with the other paddles, I need to but when I get out paddling I forget, bad excuse but it's the truth. I have done LOTS of cross comparing with the three different designs & doing "quick switches" the differences in feel are really noticeable. I also had a friend visiting that had never tried SUP before (very athletic, pro mountain bike racer though). I thought he'd be a great "control" since he had no prior knowledge of any of the paddles. I started him off with a Wiki (I didn't tell him I was studying anything of course) he paddled around for a bit & then I said, "here switch with me, I need to see something with that one" & gave him the Ho'oloa, again he didn't say much because I wasn't fishing for a response at all. Then I gave him the Konihi & he took a few strokes & said, "Wow, this ones the best one for sure". So even a complete novice can feel the difference, what difference he was feeling I can't be sure, it could have simply been the improved stability (& these things are stable) for whatever that's worth...
I just got this from my distributor in Australia:
"I was talking to Peasey earlier…..he trains on the Gold Coast with most of Australia’s top paddlers.
The boys were doing a bit of paddle swapping and they all loved Peasey’s Konihi.
Peasey said whichever of the guys that had the Konihi were consistently faster than when they had another paddle.
Comments were that they didn’t feel like it had any power and was really easy to use…..but they were quicker!!
Easier on the body and quicker…..pluses all round!"
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Lane,
Please post more Beta Feedback from your team riders, as it seems that they are the only ones who have this blade
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Lane,
Please post more Beta Feedback from your team riders, as it seems that they are the only ones who have this blade
The guys that have been paddling these so far have been in Australia (they got a handful of the first production tests since it was their peak season & still cold in the states) & handled by our distributor there. I'll see if I'm able to get any additional information though. Our supply is just arriving now so nobody in N. America has one yet but they'll be sent out soon & I expect to be getting some feedback shortly.
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Another 84 versus 95 question:
I'm happy with a Quickblade Kanaha AC 90 I have and familiar with QB V-Drive 91:
what would the 2 Konihi sizes feel like relative to these?
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Have been a keen supporter of Ke Nalu paddles here in Australia, having bought the Wiki, Maliko and Molokai paddles when first released. I like the Wiki for surfing, use the Maliko for racing being over 50 and more power type paddling, the Molokai is too big for me, so will cut down to use as an OC1 paddle.
I recently bought the Ho'oloa 95 paddle head and prefer that to my Maliko being the same power but allowing increased cadence. However i borrowed the new Konihi 84 and was blown away by it's lightness compared to mine. At first it feels like you're not going any faster, but was doing the same speed as before with a lot less effort. Then even I could increase the cadence and get a speed increase that I haven't been able to up to now with such minimal effort. What's great with Ke Nalu is the ability to just buy a paddle head such as the Konihi for relatively minimal cost and upgrade your gear.
Can't wait to get mine in the next week or so when they arrive here.......
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Since Lane opened the door
We offer our significant ZONER DISCOUNTS on all KeNalu paddles incl.the Konihi which is due in this weekm (I hope)
Just so everyone know's
JimK
www.extremewindsurfing.com
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Now that we're sending some Konihis out here in the states hopefully we'll have more info. soon but here's some more from Australia:
"Some feedback from the team guys that were lucky enough to score one of the preproduction Konihi 84 blades for testing:
"The Konihi 84 is really different to my other Ke Nalu blades. Feels like it's not very powerful cause it's so easy on the body but in time trials I'm faster with it than my other blades"
"So smooth and stable. Absolutely no flutter"
"It really loads up through the stroke. The drive it provides is unreal"
"It's so stealthy through the whole stroke, the catch and release is so clean"
"It's so easy to keep your cadence up with this thing. Love it"
These are the sort of responses we were hoping to get as main focus for the design was to create the most efficient blade possible.
We are stoked with the responses from the team guys!!.....makes all the time and effort that goes into research and development worthwhile.
Ke Nalu - POWERED BY PHYSICS"
(this was a Facebook post, here's some of the responses):
"The control from blade placement, power phase to blade exit is like no other paddle on the market. Why are paddlers changing to Ke Nalu? Well the proof's in its performance!"
"In two words "Silky smooth".............!!
I can give it 100% at training and the next day I'm ready to go again. By far the best paddle I've ever used"
"Tried it - loved it! Ordered and just waiting for it to get here now"
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Great post Lane! That is the kind of stuff we wanted to hear. Keep it coming!!
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So Lane, I am getting a little confused over paddle choices now, but in a good way. I have a Maliko on an xtuff(s) shaft and have been thinking about a new blade so I can pick up some speed with an increased turnover rate. I train pretty hard on mostly flatwater, large lake, with wind and confused boat wakes. Was thinking about the new Ho'oloa 95/84 and now you have this new Konihi 84/95 blade. Can you compare these for me and make a recommendation? 53% increase in price for Kohini versus Ho'oloa. Is it signifcantly better for high seed paddling?
The best way to describe the difference between the blade choices is; it sort of feels like a gear change going from an original design blade (Wiki, Maliko, Molokai) to a Ho'oloa and again to a Konihi. The Konihi feels similar to the Ho'oloa but it's much more stable (even with effort, it's hard to make it flutter & if you do it recovers immediately) & has the before mentioned extra power feel to it. If you're really serious about your training or race at all the Konihi is probably worth the extra money. If you're not competing the Ho'oloa will probably be fine but if you want the best the Konihi won't disappoint.
You say it's like a gear change....up or down?
In other words does each paddle stroke feel easier or harder on a Konihi compared to a Ho'oloa?
It was pretty cut and dry before with Wiki, then Maliko, then Molokai getting more square inches in the water and having progressively more "resistance" in their feel.
Just looking to keep up with all the great stuff y'all are producing.
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There's been some requests for more detailed info. for the Konihi. Now that more are getting out in the U.S market we're starting to get some reports. Here's an email I got today with some good comparison between his Molokai & his new Konihi 95:
“Got the Konihi (95) yesterday and switched out my Molokai blade for it on my flat water paddle. Paddled it today…Checking my records I have well over 1000 miles on the Molokais.
First impression - your production has really taken a step up in quality. Lay out of the glass was beautiful and the graphics really add to the look of the blade.
I paddle the Elkhorn Slough, a salt water estuary off of the Moss Landing Harbor, in the Monterey Bay of Northern California, 4 days a week, usually doing right around 6 miles. Depending on the tidal movement there is always a current going one way or the other on the paddle as well as an onshore wind of varying KPH, so the paddle is usually downhill one way and uphill the other. Sometimes lots of "ground" to cover if a high tide or not so much on lower tides. No two paddles are the same due to these conditions, therefore direct comparisons aren't able to be made. I run a Garmin 500 gps, from my mountain bike, on the board thereby being able to track time, mileage, highest speed and average speed for the paddle. I record this info and have it going back 3 years. Monday paddle with the Molokai was 5.45 miles at 1 hr 17 min, high speed 6.3 mph, avg for the paddle 4.2 mph. Todays paddle with the Konihi, I went the same course as Monday, tide coming in as on Monday but an hour later so probably a little slower as the water hadn't really started moving, wind was also a little lighter with smaller wind chop on the return trip. At the end, 5.43 miles, 1 hr 14 min, 6.2 high speed, 4.4 average. Since I've had the 14' Bark SUP, 9/12, my best average has been 4.5, with several 4.4s, but generally 4.1 - 4.3. Something might be happening! I've never paddled a Maliko, so if the guys that know say the Konihi is stronger, it might be approaching the Molokai, maybe stronger. I've got to paddle it more to see how the averages come out over a number of paddles. Friday, I will be paddling with my buddies so we can change around and I can get a better impression, of the differences.
Subjectively - My very first impression of the paddle was, entry and exit of the blade was right in line with the Molokai, smooth as butter, quiet with no drag on exit. Entry was probably a little softer but the power still came on and continued through the stroke like the Molokai. I didn't feel like I had a loss of power, which is a good thing, but it did feel like I was going through the water quicker with less "drag" which got me out of the water and back in sooner. I think I had a faster cadence just because of that as opposed to trying to go faster, which I think accounts for the better average speed. Given the conditions from one day to the next I would have expected a 4.3 average. I always guess before I check just to see how close I am and I'm usually right. Tried to get the paddle to flutter, gripped to hard, no flutter, paddle off vertical, no flutter. Only thing about that is the Molokai isn't so forgiving and makes you paddle with good form, but I think I'll take the potential increase in speed, I got trained to paddle with the Molokai. At the end of the paddle, shoulder wise I didn't feel as used as I normally do, and with the avg speed I was really surprised.
So far so good, I'm impressed.”
I know some Konihis have gone out to Zoners, I'm curious to hear your reviews.
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OK I'm trying the 84 Konihi Elite in the surf later today and/or Tomorrow just waiting out the rainy part of the storm
it should clean up soon
jimK
Waiting
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I've put about 50 miles on the Konihi 95 so far this past week and all I can say is WOW!!!! Actually, I can say more. It is the best paddle I have ever laid my grubby little hands on. It is soooo smooth. Like others have said before, it has a very soft catch and smooth release. The one thing I really noticed is the power is instantaneous and very consistent throughout the stroke. Very stable. Very easy on the shoulders. It certainly rewards you with a proper stoke and becomes very quiet. The blade likes to be buried deep. I sized my paddle the same as my Maliko Elite forgetting the blade is 2 inches longer than my Maliko. As a result you need to bury the blade 2 inches deeper. This effectively made my Konihi 2 inches shorter than my Maliko. But I think I like the shorter length. My cadence is faster and I can get more weight over the paddle more effectively. It feels very high performance. I look forward to paddling it more and it complements my 19'6" unlimited very well. It is a very good looking paddle as well:
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cnsky - whats the longest distance you've paddled in one session with this paddle? I'm curious how it is for long distance paddles (20+) in one session?
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PDLSFR- I would say 10 miles for most distance paddled during one session. The Konihi really seems to perform at different intensities. I think it would be a great long distance paddle. The 84 might be the call depending on your size. The paddle is so good I can see using it for everything, except whitewater of course.
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Bought my 85 Konihi from NZ Boardstore today.
Assembled in the shop, light, very light.
473g with a 90 shaft and ergo T.
Very happy :D
Bit of a blow here at the moment, mini downwinder planned for tomorrow.
Bring it on.
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Since Lane opened the door
We offer our significant ZONER DISCOUNTS on all KeNalu paddles incl.the Konihi which is due in this weekm (I hope)
Just so everyone know's
JimK
www.extremewindsurfing.com
Hey Jim,
What is the discount password?
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What is the discount password?
BIG HAOLE
Just remember, it will not work without the secret handshake!! ;D ;D
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What is the discount password?
BIG HAOLE
Just remember, it will not work without the secret handshake!! ;D ;D
I tried it and it says it's expired.
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I received this review the other day:
"I rarely send feedback on anything, but I have to say the Ke Nalu Konihi is simply awesome! I have the Quickblade Trifecta, as well, and although they feel very similar, the Ke Nalu is better on a number of levels. I also have a Werner Grand Prix 1000 Medium, but I really haven't been fond of it, at all, so I won't really compare it.
From the grip down:
Ergo T handle is great. I have fairly larger hands and the Ergo T is the perfect mix, allowing me to "cheat my hand" over to one side or the other, and still have a very secure grip. The 100 Flex Shaft is just a bit stiffer than the QB Trifecta and I really like the one-way slide texture. First couple of paddles have been in the rain and I have had no hand slippage. The diameter of the shaft is great, as well. Not as thin as the Trifecta and not as thick as the Werner, which even though I have large hands, I find too thick for good wrist angle on the entry. The blade is beautiful, with the production quality a step above the QB stuff in my opinion. Very well finished. I opted for the 94, which feels very similar to the Trifecta 96.
As far as performance, I love it. The entry is quiet, the catch is very secure, and when you get both of those correct, the pull is sooooo smooth and strong. The Trifecta doesn't flutter, but there must be something going on because the Konihi is noticeably smoother. It's hard to quantify, even with a SpeedCoach, because of changing conditions, but I do think I'm a bit faster at the same effort with the Konihi. Maybe .1 to .2 mph over an hour, which in racing terms would be substantial.
Will be ordering another one . . . ."
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A little bit confused, is there a zoner discount on the Kenalu store or not?
I want to upgrade from my SB Enduro Carbon Premium 525 for something lighter and better so looking at the last two Ke nalu as an option.
Cheers,
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Tried the Winglet Konihi 84 on a downwind veinto run. It is a noisy bastard with a loud sucking sounds, and it scrapes up the side of the board like no other. Yes it is fast but I am not completely sold over my wiki with my kialoa handle. Blisters a plenty.
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Tried the Winglet Konihi 84 on a downwind veinto run. It is a noisy bastard with a loud sucking sounds, and it scrapes up the side of the board like no other. Yes it is fast but I am not completely sold over my wiki with my kialoa handle. Blisters a plenty.
Bill posted similar noise (in his post..." Weird Konihi 95 Blade" http://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,24496.0.htmlbut (http://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,24496.0.htmlbut) then he went with a longer shaft & it went away. Maybe give that a try.
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Damn Lane you did it again. Second time I've had Bill hand me a paddle that shocked me. Congrats!
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Damn Lane you did it again. Second time I've had Bill hand me a paddle that shocked me. Congrats!
Glad you like it Bob, I've been really liking it too. There seems to be a "theme" starting where people initially feel the paddle isn't doing anything which (combined with the fact that they're actually getting better times and feeling less fatigued) is probably the biggest compliment I could get with these since it's validating what I set out to do (efficiency & subtlety are two of my favorite things). When I first paddled the prototype it was almost like an epiphany (well that might be stretching, it but I was pretty stoked) & I'm really happy to be hearing the reviews people have been giving it.
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I am SOLD, but waiting on the reply to the question about the zoner discount. Lane??
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I am SOLD, but waiting on the reply to the question about the zoner discount. Lane??
Planning on running one but we're a bit "inventory challenged" right now so I'm waiting on the next shipment that should arrive hopefully next week.
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Lane, I could not wait any longer. JimK PM'd me with a deal and I ordered the Konihi 95 blade from him. Can't wait to get it!! Will be sure to post a review when I get mine.
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Lane, I could not wait any longer. JimK PM'd me with a deal and I ordered the Konihi 95 blade from him. Can't wait to get it!! Will be sure to post a review when I get mine.
...All the better, I'd much rather you support our dealers & Jim at Extreme Windsurfing is one of the best & most knowledgeable so I'm sure he'll take good care of you. Let us know what you think of it.
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I got my Konihi 95 this week (before they were sold out in Canada :-) ).
I am somewhat of a beginner so I am not a very fast paddler nor is my technique where it should be.
The first thing that I noticed was "nothing". I started paddling and the paddle was unremarkable.
It just went in and out of the water without any fuss and subjectively got me moving as fast or faster than usual.
After more use I noticed three things:
1) I could increase the cadence if I so desire, without any extra effort other than cardio
2) to put some power and get some serious acceleration requires a good technique not just brunt.
There were a few times when the stars aligned and suddenly there were a few magical strokes that just feel incredibly good.
There is a perfect feed-back from the paddle almost if the paddle is "telling you" exactly where you are in the stroke and how much effort you are putting.
The board simply surge ahead. These lasted for a few strokes then regretfully went away...then later came back on the other side just to prove that it was real and again went away...
I was just thinking that is how it must feels to be Dave Kalama :-)
3) for me the blade requires an extra long shaft.
I am comfortable paddling my SB Enduro at 84" but the Konihi at 85" with the normal shaft feels way too short.
This is of course just me and might change as my technique evolves or under different conditions and so on...
It would make sense to purchase the Konihi with either the long shaft and cut as needed or the Extended T and adjust as needed until the perfect length is achieved (if there is anything like that).
Disclaimer - I am an oldish advanced beginner not race material 6' 170" fairly athletic and paddle in all kind of chop all around the quadrant
Cheers,
Luc
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It's not just you. I added three inches to my paddle length (extended ergo T) for the Konihi. It's interesting that everyone comes to pretty much the exact same set of conclusions even with just the first try. It's a strange blade, that's for sure, but it's really good.
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So, adding 3 inches to paddle length, but cadence increases?? Really, that seems like a great amount of shaft to add. Is the blade actually shorter or are you really swinging a three inch longer paddle? I don't get it.
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So, adding 3 inches to paddle length, but cadence increases?? Really, that seems like a great amount of shaft to add. Is the blade actually shorter or are you really swinging a three inch longer paddle? I don't get it.
Not sure if I get it either, but it makes sense to go longer on this paddle if you are paddling deeper to get rid of the sucking noise or whatever is making all the racket. Not sure if this provides a cleaner release or better catch, but going longer makes sense obviously if you are putting the blade in deeper than other models.
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the blade is longer than a typical Ke Nalu blade, and it works better if you make sure you bury the blade, at least get it past the neck on the initial catch. It's not just for noise, the blade is more powerful when it's buried. It's also easy to pick the cadence up without feeling like you're hurrying the stroke. Like when you sprint to catch a bump. It's just eay. I know that seems counter-intuitive. All I can say is wait until you paddle one and THEN call me crazy.
Yes. it's a weird result, but most people have the same reaction. I left my Konihi with Bob in the East Coast and haven't replaced it yet. I think I'm slower without it--I'm struggling a little more to catch bumps, though I'm having good downwinders. Not a huge difference, it just seems to give me a little more speed for a little less effort. Enough to be noticeable--or maybe I'm just being fooled by the smoothness. I don't know. I look forward to someone doing a little comparative testing.
No question that it's a weird blade, and no question that the winglets are doing something profoundly different.
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Agree with Bill that you have to fully bury the paddle all the way for it to 'work'
I've just changed from the 84 to the 95, the lack of 'catch' feel after my Maliko was too much.
Just need this bad chest to go so I can get on the water.
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I found one thing I'm having an issue with. I use my paddle for bracing far more than most. I used the Konihi yesterday for 15 miles in a mix of conditions. For the most part it's awesome but I occasionally felt like I was catching the edge when I used the back of the blade. Particularly near the end as I tired a bit and the conditions went a little squirrelly. It also made me wonder how it would be in big surf on the face of a wave.
What size is this one Bill? I think I can go bigger.
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It's the 95.
I need to write a long post on this, but lately I've been playing with close bracing instead of bracing by winging out the paddle. You try to brace exclusively with the blade behind you and close to the board. It's what you do in an OC6 to prevent a huli, because winging out your paddle can get them broken if you have a huli, or even trap and break your arm. You can put a lot of pressure on the blade with it right next to the board, and have very fine control. It also doesn't turn the board as much as a wide brace does.
Bottom line, the close brace works better than a winged out paddle for regaining your balance. takes a little time to come to trust it, but it's a powerful tool. Try it with the Konihi, I bet it works like gangbusters with the winglets.
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I found one thing I'm having an issue with. I use my paddle for bracing far more than most. I used the Konihi yesterday for 15 miles in a mix of conditions. For the most part it's awesome but I occasionally felt like I was catching the edge when I used the back of the blade. Particularly near the end as I tired a bit and the conditions went a little squirrelly. It also made me wonder how it would be in big surf on the face of a wave.
What size is this one Bill? I think I can go bigger.
Yeah Bob, that's the main reason why I don't recommend it for surf. It could make a fine surf paddle but as you've noticed if you use the back of the blade at all the winglets can hang up. The Ho'oloas have a pretty similar feel but they aren't quite as stable as the Konihis. Not to sell the Ho'oloa short, it's a really good blade too but there seems to be something special with the winglets.
I think your blade is a 95 & there isn't a larger size yet. With the trend going smaller in blade size I didn't want to make a larger blade but there seems to be a few folks requesting them, not sure if it's enough to justify the expense, we'll see.
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Want to get one of these once I decide size. Maliko is fine in glass conditions but wears me out in wind/chop, although its faster for me than the wiki. The necessary added length of the Konihi scares me a bit, my shoulders are sensitive enough that a half inch too long makes the difference between no pain and lotsa pain. Finally dialed in my Hooloa 84, extended it an inch at first but ended up same length as wiki, 8" overhead. Does the required longer length eliminate this blade for me?
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You might find the Konihi is just the answer for a bad shoulder. Bill had it fairly short, about 4" over my head, I lengthened it to 7" and it felt good and I could still bury the blade easily. The lack of flutter makes a significant difference for long distance paddles. My left shoulder is bad. Broken and dislocated multiple times so It's the first place I feel it. I was pleasantly surprised to have very little shoulder pain after the 15 miles the other day. I'm going to put it on an xtufS this weekend to see if that helps even more. I'm definitely using it for the CCBC.
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I probably should have clarified that because of my recent shoulder surgery I've been using all my paddles very short. My usual race length is 83' for a wiki or Maliko, 81' for a Molokai. With my compromised shoulder and limited range of motion I started off using using 74" with the Konihi and then bumped it to 79" to get the blade under. For the Challenge on the Charles I bumped it again to 80" but It was too much for the shoulder, so I went back to 79" which is probably what the length was when I gave it to Bob.
I still can't raise my extended arm head high, but once it's on the handle I can push it overhead, and it doesn't hurt (much) so I'm at 80" with my Wiki and a regular xTuf (not an (S)) for downwinders.
If you followed all that, the test question is, "What's the difference in a duck?"
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When I was testing the Konihi I played around with length quite a bit & did lots of cross comparing (quick switching, taking about 10 strokes & switching paddles) between a Wiki 84, Ho'oloa 84 and Konihi 84. I was paying more attention to the paddles than my technique but in the end I found I liked using the Konihi (& for that matter all of the blades) at roughly the same length, I'd say at most perhaps one inch longer for the Konihi. I didn't get the noise that others have reported but again, I was really paying attention to the paddles so I made sure to get the blade fully submerged. I didn't feel I was crouching more for the Konihi than the others. Going a bit longer might be the solution for many but I don't think it's absolutely necessary. It might be of some importance to mention that my testing was done in sheet glass conditions.
Since the issue of shoulders has come up, this could be of some interest; this might be something that's been mentioned elsewhere, if so sorry for the repeat. I also have a bit of a "bum" shoulder & our Australian distributor does as well; His physiotherapist, who is also an avid paddler, gave him the advice to stand on your board with your paddle directly at your side submerged to the shaft/blade joint. Your handle should be about parallel to the top of your shoulder. I tried this & found it to be about where I was at already but figured it's gotta be good advise coming from a paddling physiotherapist.
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If you followed all that, the test question is, "What's the difference in a duck?"
[/quote]
One of its legs is both the same...
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I played around with a 84 and a 95 Konihi today, timing runs with Motion-x and playing with length. I found the Konihi is VERY length sensitive. Get it a little too long and it feels heavy. Too short and it's noisy. Get it just right and it's kind of effortless, a little dead feeling, and you go very fast. Once I got the length right I did:
Up back
Wiki 4.3 4.4
84 4.8 5.1
95 4.7 4.9
84 5.0 5.0
95 4.7 5.0
Wiki 4.1 4.5
I was kind of tired the last run with the wiki. I actually did 3.8 for the "back" run, but I rested and did it over, giving it all I had.
The 84 doesn't feel that different from the 95. Neither of them feel like I'm working as hard as the wiki. there's bound to be a subjective element in a test like this.
Next: underwater Video of the paddles. I got the stupid water tunnel down from storage. I'll get to that as soon as I convince myself to put it together and sling water everywhere.
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Very interesting Bill. Thanks for the efforts and the post. I would have pegged you as a power paddler and I would have expected you to have gone faster with the 95, rather than the 84. It appears that you are significantly faster on the 84. Are you usually faster on the Wiki versus the Maliko blade? Are you possibly protecting the shoulder from powering up the 95? Thoughts on that? Do you feel confident that the 84 will be a faster paddle for you in the longer term? Why do you think you were faster on the 84 versus 95? I just ordered a 95, as I consider myself a power paddler, but this is giving me cause to reconsider, if the 84 might be faster. I really value your opinion. Thanks!!
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I don't really know. this blade continues to be a mystery to me. I think one reason the 84 worked better is I might have gotten the length a tiny bit more "right". I wound up being about a half inch longer than the 95. As for the rest, I just don't know. I'm certainly taking care of the shoulder, my paddle transition from right side to left is particularly slow and the first stroke is softer than subsequent strokes.
The ideal is to try both and see what feels best. I offered Rod Parmenter his choice of blades to try on the downwind and after paddling both he chose the 95. I asked him what he thought of the paddle afterward, and he said "I don't know". I think it's different enough that people will have to measure their performance to see how it works out. I thought I was as fast with the Wiki--or at least very close--as the two Konihis until I looked at the numbers.
Incidentally, I was paddling my 12'2" surfboard. 5 MPH on a 12'2" in flatwater is pretty good for me. I don't think I've hit that before.
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Bill, thanks for the reply. Very interesting and adds to your point about length being critical. Curious that it us difficult to feel and you must rely more on watch than seat if the pants. Sounds like this paddle is very fast once dialed in. 5 mph on a 12 2 surf shape is smoking for a guy your size. Can't wait to see how it works for me. New 95 blade will be here Tuesday and will add to my xTuf)s) with Ergo T. Should be a great combination. Love the adjustability of Ke Nalu paddles!!
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Changed my 84 to a 95, kept the same shaft length, so overall longer.
That's more like it.
Softer catch than the Maliko, but still feels powerful. Was able to keep my increased cadence from the 84.
Perfect ;D
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I got four text messages from Rod Parmenter yesterday asking to borrow my Konihi again. I was out in the water (did two runs with Kathy Shipman who's here visiting from Maui) so I didn't get them in time. I suspect he liked it.
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I got four text messages from Rod Parmenter yesterday asking to borrow my Konihi again. I was out in the water (did two runs with Kathy Shipman who's here visiting from Maui) so I didn't get them in time. I suspect he liked it.
Awesome! I'm glad you are showing Kathy around Bill! I was hoping she'd get in touch with you. We missed you two today! Did a S Side to Sorrentos, hiding from the brown water on the north side. Not looking too good here while Julio skirts by to our north, he's killing the trades. See you in a week!
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Who's using the 95' Konihi? 100flex or 90flex? has anyone here used the trifecta?
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I received this review the other day:
"I rarely send feedback on anything, but I have to say the Ke Nalu Konihi is simply awesome! I have the Quickblade Trifecta, as well, and although they feel very similar, the Ke Nalu is better on a number of levels. I also have a Werner Grand Prix 1000 Medium, but I really haven't been fond of it, at all, so I won't really compare it.
From the grip down:
Ergo T handle is great. I have fairly larger hands and the Ergo T is the perfect mix, allowing me to "cheat my hand" over to one side or the other, and still have a very secure grip. The 100 Flex Shaft is just a bit stiffer than the QB Trifecta and I really like the one-way slide texture. First couple of paddles have been in the rain and I have had no hand slippage. The diameter of the shaft is great, as well. Not as thin as the Trifecta and not as thick as the Werner, which even though I have large hands, I find too thick for good wrist angle on the entry. The blade is beautiful, with the production quality a step above the QB stuff in my opinion. Very well finished. I opted for the 94, which feels very similar to the Trifecta 96.
As far as performance, I love it. The entry is quiet, the catch is very secure, and when you get both of those correct, the pull is sooooo smooth and strong. The Trifecta doesn't flutter, but there must be something going on because the Konihi is noticeably smoother. It's hard to quantify, even with a SpeedCoach, because of changing conditions, but I do think I'm a bit faster at the same effort with the Konihi. Maybe .1 to .2 mph over an hour, which in racing terms would be substantial.
Will be ordering another one . . . ."
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Shakedown paddle on the new Konihi 95 blade. Did 12 miles yesterday on my Maliko blade and did not intend to do much today. Just wanted to get out and get a feel for the new blade. Buuuut, the blade felt so good going through the water. Wow!! I knew after the first mile in the wind that there was something good going on. Ripped off a personal best 5.1 mph average over 6 miles, when I was tired from the previous day's long paddle!! What??? Why??? Softer catch, smmooooth and powerful stroke and very easy release/recovery. Seems to me that I use less energy with this paddle, due to the smoothness. It is also very forgiving for an occasional sloppy stroke, if that makes sense. This blade is two inches longer and I did not cut down the shaft yet. I have heard that the length must be just right to get the most out of the paddle. I know it is too long right now. I think that if I cut it down a bit, I will find even more cadence and speed. It is going to be fun dialing this paddle in!! Props to Lane and company for the design of this blade. It is a game changer!! Not only is it faster, but it is also much, much more enjoyable to paddle.
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Crazy huh. I'm still using the 84, and I did a 5.4 MPH leg of Nichols on my 12'2" in the glassy conditions today. Five point four?? It didn't feel that fast.
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All I have is a subjective feel no data but I'm pretty sure yesterday my Vec was going faster than I've ever had it going before. A long reach and fast cadence and you just get into a zone that feels weirdly efficient. I felt like I was pulling at 90% and getting 100% speed. Now if I could only do it on both my left and right.. :P
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Bill, that is crazy fast on that board!! You are doing something, that's for sure!! Must be the paddle and the motor!
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Yeah, that's really fast for a surfboard. Pretty near it's top-out speed I'd guess.
Now how much of this is the pure psyche-out of having a sweet paddle? Or is the paddle actually more efficient?
So if I'm happy with my current 90 sq in QB, would the 84 feel closest? I'm worried that's too small and maybe I'm ready to step up to more like 94.
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Is the Ho'oloa is similar or a completely different animal? I'm sure others like me jumped on the Hooloa only to see the Konihi come out a month later and are wondering if they should upgrade again.
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does the Konihi 95sq have the same strong catch as the Maliko? I recently tried the Trifecta and was blown away! The Maliko was putting my paddle into a brick wall. The Trifecta felt as if the catch was weak... I wont go into details but. I'm hoping the Konihi doesn't have that strong catch, and is just butter smooth from the start
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It's very smooth. I'd call the catch firm, but there's ess of a hit than you feel with a Maliko.
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To me, the catch feels like a smooth spring quickly loading as you pull, where the maliko was like you were pulling a steel cable with an abrupt catch. To me the Konihi is awesome in every aspect of the stroke and I have not even dialed the length in yet. I just took two inches off the shaft and plan to play with it some more this week.
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Length is really critical for the Konihi blade. And as always, I don't know why it's so. But it is. If you get it a little too short the catch goes away some. Go a little shorter and it gets noisy. Go a little too long and the blade feels heavy. It's not just catch, there's something more to it. I shortened the 95 by a half inch today and it felt great. It had been feeling heavy. I thought it might just be the blade size so I lengthened the 84 by an inch and it felt heavy. Slowed my cadence way down. Dropping my lower hand further on the shaft helped, but I went back to the truck and dropped it an inch and it was back to feeling quick and light.
I found my board speed is highest when it feels like it's not doing much--the light feeling. I couldn't get 5.3 with the 12'2" again today, but I got two short sprints of 5.2 with each paddle.
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I found my board speed is highest when it feels like it's not doing much--the light feeling. I couldn't get 5.3 with the 12'2" again today, but I got two short sprints of 5.2 with each paddle.
Same feeling I had. It doesn't seem like it makes any sense. You can definitely tell when you have it right but it still feels weird. I had some fastest runs ever on my Vec on some of my training paddles.
Saturday wasn't a good test and I think I would have been better off with the Molokai because of all the bracing I needed to do. I'm finding the Konihi to be a thoroughbred. Awesome for straight out speed for races and long distance cruising when conditions are good. Not sure its going to be my go to otherwise though. I've caught the winglet surfing and more than a few times on Saturday while back bracing.
One thing I noticed.....you want flutter...try paddling it backwards. As much as you can't make it flutter normally, backwards it looks like you're trolling a rapala.
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So, got to the Cape this morning and stopped into Nauset Surf. I was surprised when I picked up this Bote paddle and noticed what looked to be similar winglets as the Konihi. I haven't seen a Konihi in person yet so I could be wrong. It was tough to photograph them as they were pretty subtle but it definitely seemed like a very similar design concept. Has anyone else seen this Bote paddle? Is it possible to be jumping on Ke Nalu's coat tails this quickly or do great minds think alike? Hmmm.
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Really difficult to tell from the pictures but it looks like the winglets on the Bote paddle are much larger than the Kenalu. The winglets on the Konihi are very small, not sure you could even tell in a photo.
I am really loving the Konihi.
Cheers, Jill
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Nice looking paddle, It will be interesting to see what people think of it.
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That does look nice. Similar but definitely bigger.
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The "swine"! How dare them to copy a paddle blade that's clearly labled as patent pending! Oh wait; That's a different blade we're working on... Never mind - back to sleep... Paddle on, JD
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So, got to the Cape this morning and stopped into Nauset Surf. I was surprised when I picked up this Bote paddle and noticed what looked to be similar winglets as the Konihi. I haven't seen a Konihi in person yet so I could be wrong. It was tough to photograph them as they were pretty subtle but it definitely seemed like a very similar design concept. Has anyone else seen this Bote paddle? Is it possible to be jumping on Ke Nalu's coat tails this quickly or do great minds think alike? Hmmm.
Interesting, it does look a little similar. Enough so that I might need to send them a little note, there's a patent pending on the "winglets". (It is this one JD :)
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To everyone in Canada, we have received our first shipment of Ke Nalu paddles and are shipping them out this week!
Lower prices this year in Canada and you can order either online, or just give us a call to discuss which ones are right for you.
Also check out Lane's new YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCX8lUchPeVkeu-j8vua-nZQ (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCX8lUchPeVkeu-j8vua-nZQ)
www.kenalupaddles.com