Standup Zone Forum
Stand Up Paddle => Technique => Topic started by: linter on September 01, 2007, 11:48:00 AM
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going frontside is no problem but backside, i just don't seem to get it, mainly because i can't lean into a turn the way i can frontway. can anyone offer some suggestions?
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going frontside is no problem but backside, i just don't seem to get it, mainly because i can't lean into a turn the way i can frontway. can anyone offer some suggestions?
I found backside didn't work for me. The board is too big. What I did learn to do, was catch the wave regular foot, then switch to goofy once on the wave. Kinda fun.
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Get a good wide stance going, back foot back! It's also very helpful to have your paddle on the side towards the wave so you can brace on it to bottom turn. look where you want to go, and twist your upper body/shoulders in the same direction. bend your knees.
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Glad to hear you guys are having problems. ;) I though it was my board, but now I realise it's me & my technique (or lack there of). I was thinking I'd have to get a new board, but now it looks like I can keep mine for a bit longer.
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I've learned it's mostly in the footwork. Get your rear right to the edge of the board and keep the fron foot somewhat centered when you're driving the bottom turn, then as the board releases you sort of step/float to the opposite rail so you don't go flying off the back of the wave. If you have a deck pad, be sure to wax the rails to the side of the pad. If not, as soon as your foot hits that smooth rail, you're gonna catch a massive stand up board right in the jewels. How do you think I know that? It was a good show for the kids on the beach, guaranteed. Here's the soundtrack: Zoomp..fump....ooh. (squeal..."I really gotta wax those rails.")
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Get a good wide stance going, back foot back! It's also very helpful to have your paddle on the side towards the wave so you can brace on it to bottom turn. look where you want to go, and twist your upper body/shoulders in the same direction. bend your knees.
Yeah Dooner. Ditto your advice. Our best waves here are lefts so I surf a lot on my back side. You can get just as good on your back side with enough practice. I really like it as much as front side surfing.
One variation on which side to put your paddle. In waves that are fast and racy I keep my paddle on the wave face side. In waves that are slower I like the paddle on the other side to help "kick" the bottom turn (by sweeping to the side and behind the tail) ; essentially shorten it to get the board going back up the face sooner. Then you can also crank a nice back hand snap or round house by leaning on or even breifly back paddling.
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Make sure you are squaring up your shoulders "down the board". As in open your chest up to the nose of the board.
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I also hate going left..So I mostly surf right handers...That's one way to fix it.. ;D
I find that I don't have as much spring in my legs bottom turning on my heelside..and if it's choppy the board is more likely to bounce.
This is a great pic of Blane going left...I guess practice makes perfect.
DJ
(http://photos.imageevent.com/torturechambers/moresurfstuff/websize/img_2570a.jpg)
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thought that was you going backside DJ. ;D
-mike
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thought that was you going backside DJ. ;D
-mike
Ha...I wish.. :D...Even tho it's not me just looking at that pic I think to myself..."I gotta get a shorter board".. ;D
DJ
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Going backside has been almost every surfer's nemesis when learning to surf. I guess practice and the more you do the better yo get. On heavy longboards and now longer/wide SUP's makes that even more challenging.
I grew surfing up on left breaking waves and backside was the norm. I've had some advantages before I hopped on the Stand-up. I have a heavy back foot from those early surfing experiences. When I adapted to the SUP backside attack, it was not that bad. All the tips mentioned above are great. They all work in the situations.
Here are my tips I feel helped me.. ME....
I try to take off on a slight angle down the wave so I'm heading left already and makes the bottom turn a little easier w/ speed. Speed is your friend.
I'm in a surf stance ready to draw a line. (See PIC) When dropping in my feet or stance is on the the LEFT SIDE OF THE BOARD, left of center. This helps with getting the board on that inside rail directing down the wave.
I lean on my back leg, keeping balance and equel pressure on the board left side. Back foot Pressing on the tail of my board while my front foot gives alittle. When I start to direct my board and turn I shift weight to forward leg leveling out now going left.
Now when heading backside, I adjust to the wave by leaning and applying pressure to the toes and heels. This lets the board do small little turns using your legs as shock absorbers gaining and maintaining the speed.
Now the paddle.
I paddle for the wave and gain the speed I need ready to drop in. (Stance On left inside of board and angled left heading down the wave) When i reach the bottom of the wave and ready to backside turn, I use the paddle on the inside behind me ( left side) pressing down applying pressure on the blade while dropping in the turn for leverage. This also helps stabilize me when I apply back foot pressure and lean into the turn. When board is planing on the wave heading down the line I'll use the paddle on the outside to stroke for more power and speed. I will adjust to either side using the paddle for stroke and balance and to redirect for turns and maneuvers.
These are the the things I do going backside. Its practice and the more you do the better you get. I hope this help a little. The best tip I can give would be.
SPEED IS YOUR FRIEND..AN INSIDE RAIL STANCE AND ANGLE DOWN THE LINE A BIT WHEN DROPPING IN.
Sorry for the long winded exlination....
(http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee280/gjbsup/DSC_0629.jpg)
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Thanks...I was just asking this question to experienced surfers at Thousand Peaks yesterday. They told me "get your back foot on the backside rail, lean back on it, stick your butt out and put some hips into the turn.
so far the only part of that recipe I've mastered is sticking my butt out.
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I've hardly managed frontside >:( I just keep going over. Everything is visual for me and the reflex to unweight is nowhere near as quick. Think of having to think every move out, not just relying on your sense of balance. Backside I don't even get a turn started before I fall off. Very frustrating, but what a great feeling it is to make the progress I have managed. I'll get it eventually (I hope) once I get it burned into the synapses.
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Today during my little session, I watched a 245' lb guy learning to ride his 12 foot Laird he receive for X-mas. As I watched him catch the wave and try to go backside on the 1-2 ft ( Knee- Thigh high ) little rollers I noticed he was so way back on the tail and kind of 'popped a wheelie' w/ his nose of the board. His paddle was on the outside of the wave and stroking sort of a piviot turn have you.. while dropping in. This brought the board around and allowed him to go down the line. When I asked and showed him to use the paddle drag technique on the inside of his body and have the paddle as leverage to get the board around. The board would plane out and trac forward. He would lean over and fall off. I asked to try the Laird and Experiment w/ the two techniques, I found out that the heavy foot on the tail creating nose lift allows the bigger board to piviot with an outside paddle stroke. It was much easier on this huge board than using the paddle as leverage my way like i do normal backside drop-in on my smaller board.. It took alot to get the Laird board around. But as I said before, Speed is your friend....I learned something new from a two week beginner.
For all of you out there having trouble w/ backside, try this method ,It may work for you as did my new paddle partner on the monster Laird.
Good luck....
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i found this picture at the gongsup site and it seems to say alot about what gjbsup is also saying. feet all the way on one side, paddle pressed against the wave face. that about right? i've also read about keeping your chest open to the front of the board while going backside; the guy here is spot on with that.
(http://www.gongsup.com/local/cache-vignettes/L750xH563/071116533-2-d6aa5.jpg)
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That IS a great photo for illustrating some of the things mentioned here. I find myself (on much smaller waves, mind you) with my weight on my back foot and the paddle, which like in the pic is held sort of flat and dragged through the water rather than planted. Torso twisted to open the shoulders. In my case more of a point-and-shoot move rather than a full-on bottom turn.
As an aside-- are those gongsup guys having fun or what?
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As an aside-- are those gongsup guys having fun or what?
This picture is from south of France in Mediterranne. Mediterranee is a sea but it's not an ocean.
The gongsup guy is "Ours" (the bear) surfing big mediterranean wave in Saint-Tropez. I don't know him but I believe this guy has much more fun than the common run of people. He's wellknown by using a scottish beverage to be also a buzz surfer. :D
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Hey linter,
Check out this backside wave of Ikaika Kalama that Blane posted. He shows how easy it is. Just get pointed in the right direction on a triple overhead wave and go with it ;D
http://imageevent.com/torturechambers/privatedonotcopy?p=98&w=4&c=4&n=0&m=24&s=0&y=1&z=9&l=0
BTW, how do you like the otter tail paddle?
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Hey linter,
Check out this backside wave of Ikaika Kalama that Blane posted. He shows how easy it is. Just get pointed in the right direction on a triple overhead wave and go with it ;D
http://imageevent.com/torturechambers/privatedonotcopy?p=98&w=4&c=4&n=0&m=24&s=0&y=1&z=9&l=0
BTW, how do you like the otter tail paddle?
What a great vid..What a great barrel.. :o..I think he only fell in because he would have hit the camera man.. ;D
DJ
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hey gary: i'd been holding my thoughts on the infinity in abeyance for a bit. when i first got it, i went out twice and had the two worst sessions of my life. today, though, I gave it another shot and find that i really like the thing. in particular, i'm happy with how it starts the board off so smoothly; there's none of that herky-jerky get-going stuff that i had with my other paddle. i also like the length that steve recommended; while everyone else is going short, i'm now at 10" overhead with the ottertail.
the other day i was so pissed off at the world that i thought i'd just up and get a kialoa and fergit all about this super slender paddle biz. now i'm happy as a clam.
thanks for all your help along the way. it proved invaluable.
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Cool linter. It took me a while to get used to it also. At first I thought..."I'll NEVER be able to catch a wave with this thing!" But it's worked out great. I wouldn't leave home without it. I also thought that having two paddles was pretty extravagant. But as I read and talk with more guys, I hear them saying that having an extra paddle with you "just in case" is a good idea. So I'm happy about that too. If I was going distance though, I'd reach for the Kialoa Kole 9" first.
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I hope the photos work out.
This shows how we go backhand here in OZ.I know the waves arent as big as the islands but we have a blast anyway.
Cheers from OZ.
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(http://www.standupzone.com/photopost/data/2/IMG_1924.jpg)
this image stuff has got me beat.
Cheers.
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Hi Snappy,
You had the pictures very close to correct. Two small things,
The image url was from the thumbnail image (very small, rather than full sized like it is now).
Also, you did not highlight the URL before clicking the image icon. I fixed 'er up.
This is how it looked for your photo when corrected:
[img]http://www.standupzone.com/photopost/data/2/IMG_1924.jpg[/img]
Thanks!
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(http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee280/gjbsup/ToddBackside.jpg)
Thanks Snappy and all the ZONERS for your BACKSIDE TIPS, they all work...
I like to share this pic I came accross (cruising the web) w/ all of you about what I was trying to say. The pic is of Todd at ''C4 Waterman' and he extremely demonstrates the technique I tried to describribe........ I guess a picture tells a thousand words.......
Remember, SPEED IS YOUR FRIEND thru the maneuver
Heavy back foot forcing tail down and nose up
Surf stance on inside edge to set rail for turn
Twisting tourso , directing shoulder and chest thru the turn w/ board to follow
Leaning on dragged paddle blade for leverage and pivioting.
Paddle between wave and surfer.
When turn is complete and your heading down the line , adjust for speed and your next maneuver ..
Thanks for all your input and I hope this helps at least one Stand Up paddler .
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Now let's talk about pigdogging a 10'x29"x4.5 through a heaving right hand barrel section (I'm screwfoot)- any thought s on that one? Or is it just point and pray?
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Now let's talk about pigdogging a 10'x29"x4.5 through a heaving right hand barrel section (I'm screwfoot)- any thought s on that one? Or is it just point and pray?
Barrels aside, if its pigdoggn' with heels on (or close to) the inside rail and a 4.5 inch far rail to grab....Man, you need some long arms and big hands :)
Good Q though, where are you hiding the paddle, inside hand and tight in?
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My style in those situations has been:
1. Drop in
2. Come off the bottom thinking if I. Kalama can do it at Pipe this little beachbreak wedge is a cake walk, right?
3. Watch the bottom drop out, water turn sandy brown. Realize: Oh, sh#t what have I done? Consider pulling out but see that's not an option.
4. Get as high and tight as possible, try to get small- realize that 220 don't get too small
5. Take the lip in the back of my head
6. Pray- as I'm planting my face that a) when I surface my c5 is intact b) my board doesn't flip over in the lip and flatten the back of my head or a fin doesn't modify my okole.
7.Yard sale
8.Paddle away acting like I can't hear the cackles from the manuals who've been waiting all morning for just this to happen.
9. Resolve to never try to pull in backhand again and gain new appreciation for Hawaiians who pull in over a reef that ain't so forgiving.
Yeah, that's about it.
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My style in those situations has been:
1. Drop in
2. Come off the bottom thinking if I. Kalama can do it at Pipe this little beachbreak wedge is a cake walk, right?
3. Watch the bottom drop out, water turn sandy brown. Realize: Oh, sh#t what have I done? Consider pulling out but see that's not an option.
4. Get as high and tight as possible, try to get small- realize that 220 don't get too small
5. Take the lip in the back of my head
6. Pray- as I'm planting my face that a) when I surface my c5 is intact b) my board doesn't flip over in the lip and flatten the back of my head or a fin doesn't modify my okole.
7.Yard sale
8.Paddle away acting like I can't hear the cackles from the manuals who've been waiting all morning for just this to happen.
9. Resolve to never try to pull in backhand again and gain new appreciation for Hawaiians who pull in over a reef that ain't so forgiving.
Yeah, that's about it.
HA hahahahhahahahahaahha....yup you got that right...mee too...
or "shoot... im almost as good as those guys that on the C4 videos...WATCH THIS"....NOT.... :o
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I pulled off some good backside turns yesterday in little waves over in the Cove. Before I was just kind of sliding the nose around, but I lifted my back foot and moved it over to the inner rail and PRESTO. Felt so nice. then just hop the foot back to the middle and lean the other way and you carve out of it. I was whooping so much I must have looked like a nut.
BTW, bob (stoneaxe) is doing really well. He's beating himself up because he's falling in so much, but he's catching waves and starting to turn well. I haven't got him to move his feet around as much as he needs to, but he's doing way better than I expected.
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bill: glad to hear that about bob. tell him to keep up the good work -- and to come down to RI on his return.
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Aaron Napoleon won the Ku Ikaika going backside. There are at least 2, maybe three of his waves on the video. In an event of mostly frontside chargers, he really made a good show!
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http://youtube.com/watch?v=GBfoctCGGH4 (http://youtube.com/watch?v=GBfoctCGGH4)
This guy is driving really strong bottom turns offside. Worth checking out.
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That guy was killing it on what looks like a small SUB! The shortbaord tow in guys were getting shacked all over the place! Who would have known. ;D
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This guy is driving really strong bottom turns offside. Worth checking out.
This guy rips!
Look at his paddle technique to lean backside then frontside. It's very quick. The paddle doesn't move so much in his right hand. It took me some time to understand.
This guy is Peyo Lizarazu from Basque country (french side). Some say he is the french ambassador for SUPing. His brother is the famous pro soccerplayer and world champion 1998, Bixente Lizarazu.