Standup Zone Forum
Stand Up Paddle => SUP General => Topic started by: Tamarack Janitor on January 21, 2014, 10:38:21 AM
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Hey all, new to the zone. I have read posts on here for a long time, just wanted to say that this is a great place to read some pretty neat subjects. The one thing i can wrap my mind around is why there seems to be no loyalty towards local shapers. Why is everybody buying and supporting places other then there local area? Most people here i have seen ride boards made in other countries. Ive have read so many posts about specs. from my years of riding all different types of boards I am pretty sure local shapers can build any board you want and make it lighter and more efficient also way cheaper. Please fellow sup bros and sisters please explain this to me.
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Welcome.. I'll try and explain my thoughts about this.. If you have local shapers that can make you a board that is better and cheaper than that what the large brands like Naish, Starboard and Fanatic can offer you are very lucky because this is very much the exception from what is the norm in most places around the world.. Resale is often very hard on second hand custom boards and the price you get is also usually much less than a big brand board.. and there is often the gamble that the board might not end up exactly like you expect it to be.. There is a market for local made boards and that's great.. but they are not for me..
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If you have local shapers that can make you a board that is better and cheaper than that what the large brands like Naish, Starboard and Fanatic can offer you are very lucky because this is very much the exception from what is the norm in most places around the world.
I've yet to encounter a single local shaper charging anything close to the sky high Naish and Starboard prices.
Even "internationally renowned" shapers charge dramatically less.
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If you have local shapers that can make you a board that is better and cheaper than that what the large brands like Naish, Starboard and Fanatic can offer you are very lucky because this is very much the exception from what is the norm in most places around the world.
I've yet to encounter a single local shaper charging anything close to the sky high Naish and Starboard prices.
Even "internationally renowned" shapers charge dramatically less.
You have a point.. But I meant 'better and cheaper' .. Not just cheaper.. :)
Our 'internationally renowned shapers' charge substantially more than most of the big brand boards.. and I don't think price is the real issue here.
I'm not saying I'm right.. It's just my opinion.. I'd be interested to hear what others think.
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Welcome to the Zone! It's always nice to hear fresh input.
My New England perspective to your question
My only loyalty is to me... I simply try to find the best shape, with the best quality, that meets MY needs.
If ANY shaper or manufacturer wants my business... they have to earn it.
Lots of great shapers in most areas of the world, that have years of experience with surfboards. There are more & more shapers turning out SUP's for sure... some of them are making exceptional boards. The problem in my area is, the shapers are surfers... either they don't SUP or they dabble... but surfing is their main thing. SUP's require a lot of special knowledge that thins out the ranks of quality SUP shapers.... then there's the issue of strength to weight ratio... SUP's are expensive...I can't afford board failures... so I stick to products, that have proven their durability... and not many make the cut.
There are some GREAT local SUP shapers... in California, Florida, Hawaii and scatttered here and there around the globe... just not in every neighborhood. There are a few in New England... their boards are good and getting better... but so far... production boards are still a much better bet for me.
From what I see on the Zone... some Zoners are making SUP's that look as good, if not better, than many local shapers.
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One reason is a lot of people who own SUPs didn't start out surfing and have never experienced the process of a custom shaped board. This is a foreign concept to some.
Then, there is this new "demo" concept ("don't buy a board unless you can demo it"). The big offshore boys can afford to have lots of demos at the shops.
Another group out there believes these boards all built in the same factory are more durable and better made. Some of the people who ascribe to this thinking come from the windsurfing camp.
Lots of other reasons too. One DJ pointed out is having access to a shaper who knows what they are doing.
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I recently purchased a Pat Rawson custom from Hawaii. Handshaped by a true master and total cost including air freight to Boston was under $1700! Is it magic - yes. Is it bulletproof windsurf construction no. Do I value the mana of Pat in the board - priceless! I come from a prone background where "popouts" were only ridden by newbies and kooks. However, things are different and trying out a board from a shaper is only done by buying it. The windsurf types are stronger, but seem overpriced to me. Thank God we have many, many choices. OBTW custom boards easier to fix!
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I've owned both, and liked them for different reasons, but ultimately my current go to is a custom and it fits like a glove.
Steve Boehne at Infinity did a really good interview recently, I think it's still a youtube somewhere, discussing both his customs and his boardworks licensed models, both sold in his shop. It's probably around here somewhere.
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Welcome...“What fuckin’ high school did you go to, bro?” J/K couldn't resist from the Lunada localism thread.
In addition to what others have said, based on my one year of SUP experience (6 boards, 1 in the works), here's my progression of board purchases:
Board #1 - Found an awesome deal on "brand new" brand name board on CL
Board #2 - Broke board #1 and found awesome deal on "used" brand name board on CL
Board #3 - Found an awesome deal on a "brand new" brand name race board from manufacturer
Board #4 - Found a great deal on a "used once" brand name board on CL
Board #5 - Demo'd a brand name board and bought "new board" from rep
Board #6 - Found a great deal on a "used once" brand name board on the Zone
Board #7 - Custom Joe Bark race board in the works
In short, impulse buy, CraigsList, the Zone, better deals, and more importantly not knowing enough at the beginning to know what I want in a custom board (and invest a lot of money in) are reasons why I went production boards first. I'm finally ready for that custom board and I'm going local with Bark. I know he makes great boards, I've paddled a lot of his boards production/custom/prototype, and if something goes wrong he'll take care of you.
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Thanks for all the replies. I guess one of my main concerns is that most people that come out to sup surf for the first time most of the time, come out with boards from an another country. That starts the cycle of "here comes another kook" then it starts a whole lot of bad vibes that never seem to go away,funny how most surfers couldn't tell you what happened a week ago, but they can sure remember the kook that paddled out in the lineup with a pop out. I want all people that are brave enough to come out and learn the awesome sport, it just seems like with the way things are right now they really never have a fair chance. That is the one good thing about cl. The ability to buy quality used boards. hope everyone this week here in so cal got some killer waves. Its really going to be a good few days out in the ocean.
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I recently purchased a Pat Rawson custom from Hawaii. Handshaped by a true master and total cost including air freight to Boston was under $1700! Is it magic - yes. Is it bulletproof windsurf construction no. Do I value the mana of Pat in the board - priceless! I come from a prone background where "popouts" were only ridden by newbies and kooks. However, things are different and trying out a board from a shaper is only done by buying it. The windsurf types are stronger, but seem overpriced to me. Thank God we have many, many choices. OBTW custom boards easier to fix!
I'd really like to hear more about your Rawson. Can you please share the full dimensions and volume? Pics? Thanks.!
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The "neighborhood" element of shapers, at this time really only applies to prone surfing. That may change in the future, but I believe the market is different. A great example of the "neighborhood" influence is my son right now.
My son called me an hour ago, and he just broke his 6'0" channel islands shortboard at the Ventura Harbor today in some heavy surf. He bought the CI board when he lived in Santa Barbara, and he recently moved to Ventura. He says he is now getting a Roberts board and I asked why and his response was everyone in Ventura surfs a Roberts. Robert Weiner shapes a great board, but I don't think I would ask him to shape me an SUP.
When I was younger surfing in Santa Cruz in the 70/80's, the west side boys were surfing Hauts and the east side were on Freeline Designs and Oneil customs from local shapers.
You don't really see that kind of "neighborhood" commitment to SUP boards at the mass level. I do think things change when you are talking about the advanced sup surfer. But I think that comes from the prone surf history. But again keep in mind, most sups are not owned by surfers.
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Thanks for all the replies. I guess one of my main concerns is that most people that come out to sup surf for the first time most of the time, come out with boards from an another country. That starts the cycle of "here comes another kook" then it starts a whole lot of bad vibes that never seem to go away,funny how most surfers couldn't tell you what happened a week ago, but they can sure remember the kook that paddled out in the lineup with a pop out. I want all people that are brave enough to come out and learn the awesome sport, it just seems like with the way things are right now they really never have a fair chance. That is the one good thing about cl. The ability to buy quality used boards. hope everyone this week here in so cal got some killer waves. Its really going to be a good few days out in the ocean.
Never seen that. I don't think most proners know the difference in SUPs....much less which country the SUP was made in.....If they don't like a Supper, its because they've got poor skills or have poor etiquette or they're afraid the Supper might injure them or they are afraid the Supper might take all their waves....shoulder hop them, etc. (lots of threads on this)......I've never seen it be because the Supper is on a "pop out" or the SUP wasn't made locally.
While many proners make that distinction of their own kind....for example, many proner's say they would never own a pop out, you don't see that much, if at all, with the Suppers. Like others have said, it is probably because with the SUP's strength and resilience are more of an issue.
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What do you think a "pop out" is? I'm just curious, because I think there may be some confusion on this. I hear people use the term all the time. I own a SUP shop and I don't even know what it means.
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Boards for SUP are following a Windsurfing trajectory, not a surfboard trajectory. In the early days of windsurfing you moved UP to a custom board, but the manufacturing processes changed and "pop outs" became stronger, lighter and more progressive. The people making 50 of a board do a lot more testing and refinement than people making one.
What is fairly rare is having a custom shaper who SUPs and who cares about SUP other than as a revenue stream. Here on Maui we have Bill Foote, Dave Peterson, Dave Kalama, Sean Ordonez, JImmy Lewis, and many others who have an encyclopedic knowledge of what works. People here ride those boards. Sure, there's plenty of Naish and starboard boards, but the lineup on most days has custom shaping well represented. I have a bandolier of Foote's, a Kalama and an L41. That reminds me, I need to talk to Bill about the board he's making me.
If you want a board now, today, you're probably not going to wait for a custom shape. It takes forethought to get one made. If you're buying something "local" off the rack, you're missing out on the bespoke element of custom and honestly, you should just find something that works for a good price. Then find one of those shapers that really is into SUP and tell them what you want to do. My first custom Foote felt like a magic carpet. I still have it. If it was a tiny bit less beat up it would go on the wall.
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Maybe i am very spoiled in the sense that I've really only owned custom boards. I was taught that most surfers just did it that way. Ive seen plenty of my friends own pop outs and have even tried them from time to time, but most of the time they just felt like oil tankers,compared to the feeling of something fitting so comfortable as a custom board. I guess I just thought with the internet everywhere and everybody owing a computer it would be very easy to find some one in the good ole USA to make you any sort of board you wanted. One final thought. I've had boards made for me that I thought would just kill the waves and they ended up being complete duds.. That feeling sucks. One good thing my shaper does is he takes the board back gives me a credit and then sells the board that was a dud. I have seen a few shapers do that. How many big box sup sellers and pop out board makers would make any sort of sacrifice like that?
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Usually not necessary. If you buy a Pop out (they really aren't pop outs by the way) and it doesn't work for you most dealers have some kind of workable policy. More to the point, most have a demo fleet. The surprising thing is that most of the production board builders are leading the way for performance boards. I thought they'd stick to the bigger stuff with a larger market, but they're deep into boards that I couldn't stand on.
The general surf market is as style-driven as any fashion show. SUPs are currently less so. The anti-pop out sentiment has been nurtured in surf culture since the 60's. I remember when it was the topic of most of the surf cartoons--to the point of being predictable and boring propaganda.
It will change, though in what direction I couldn't say. I don't think there is anyone making a living shaping windsurfing boards--and the production boards sell for $3K and up. I could be wrong about that, but it's what I see in Maui and Hood River.
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"Pop-outs", mostly a product of the 60's, as Bill mentioned. Boards made overseas and sold in department stores mostly. I remember the first one I ever saw, a 10' heavy board with racing stripes on it, being sold in Montgomery Wards in San Diego, in about 1964 when I was 14. The brand name was "Surf City" or something stupid like that.
Later that same year, I got my first board, a used South Coast and I couldn't have been happier.
Followed soon by a couple of Carl Ekstroms note the asymmetrical tails, he made the first asymmetricals in San Diego.
I wish I still had those,,,,,,,, don't we all.
I just noticed in that pic, that we had one of those modern rotating TV antennas!
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I've always had custom surfboards. My last longboard was shaped by John Keys at Encinitas. I owned a series of Dill windsurfers until I left the sport; I still have an 8'2" in the garage. Conversely in standup I've never owned a custom board. They have all been production and I've been very happy with them. My most recent purchase is a production 2014 Naish 14' Glide GX. However in surf I've always appreciated the feel of a custom glass board. To me they feel more alive under foot compared to a production board. Though production boards are light and durable, my next SUP for surf will be a custom.
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I think most people use the term "pop-outs" to describe mass produced, and therefore cheaper boards (in both meanings). But in fact these production boards aren't made in a very different way from custom boards. The cheapest production boards are made exactly like customs; hand-laid glass on foam. More expensive brands will use more advanced techniques, such as vacuum bagging and alternate materials in the laminations. These are also being used by custom shapers.
The only true "pop-outs" are being made by brands like BIC, where the board literally pops out of a mold (well, sort of). But this is an extremely expensive and hi-tech way to make boards, and there are very few companies making boards this way. You would need to sell a ton to start making money...which is what Bic does.
I'm not arguing against custom boards. A good relationship with a knowledgable custom shaper will undoubtedly lead to the best board you can own. I just thought I'd point out that the difference between custom boards and production boards aren't necessarily that significant. There's good and bad of both.
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Most custom shapers are making higher performance surf SUP boards at lower cost to consumer than the mass production stuff.
It's the opposite of how mass production is supposed to work. If the high end Starboards and Naish LE's were $1,200, then they would be a good deal. Over $2,000 is a joke.
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I have been surfing most of 50 years. Pop outs of the 60's were rejects and not popular.
Boards back then were around $100. Then I windsurfed starting in the 80's and the pop outs for windsurfing were terrific. Still surfing when the modern pop outs hit, I switched to them, because they were good. Then when I started sup it was on a starboard 12'6 that I picked up on my annual trip to the gorge. By this time I was used to the pop out from windsurfing and to be honest they surfed very good. I even liked them more than my customs of the day. So I stayed with factory pop outs while sup surfing. They were all good and always better than the one before. Now I want to replace my favorite pop out with a new one and sticker shock broke the deal. I have a custom on order all carbon for a grand less than the pop out. Looks like I may have gone full circle and will probably stay with customs unless I get back into making my own. I used to shape in the 70's and still have all the tools. Last board I shaped was for a friend I rescued from his own destructive shaping skills. He took that board and placed 1st on it in our contest. I don't make boards now because I hate glassing. Anyway, todays pop outs are really worthy, especially the carbon ones, but price is killing me, and I have a job, just think what a barrier it is to someone without a bank account.
You can do far worse in board purchases than what many of the pop outs offer but price is going to be in favor of the home town factory. I will see how my custom holds up before I order another unless its a lemon then I will either make my own or get another pop out. There is that risk because I am not picking it off the rack already made.
and welcome to the Zone.
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Just wanted you all to know how much I enjoy these topics. Totally stoaked. I realized I may have come across a certain way. Sorry about that. I love sup surfing. It has really opened my eyes with the different type of people you come across. Hope everybody enjoys sup surfing as much as I do. All the points everybody has made on here are pretty neat.
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I suspect that the correlation between custom and production SUP purchases is directly related to having local SUP shapers. Seems to me like not many places have that option. It sure would be great.
I thought the kooks on pop outs thing was pretty funny. A lot of SUP folks are going to be of an age where that really doesn't matter. I am pretty sure I am a kook on a popout.
I would say I try to support my local shop but they really don't have much. The decent shop is an hour away in the car so my local might just be right here. I have bought from Easy Rider and JimK just sold me a wetsuit this week. These guys aren't local but sitting here at my desk, it sort of feels like they are.
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originally the term pop-out is just purely a pejorative judgement of someone making boards quickly, without custom shaping--just popping them out. The cartoons of the day often showed boards popping out of a big toaster, which lead people to believe they were molded in one piece. Later it came to mean a concrete mold was covered in a few layers of fiberglass, some kind of stringer (usually plastic) was added. Add some polyurethane foaming base, close it up and sometimes inject steam. Presto--crappy board. Softops are made about the same way, bottom is usually glasses, top is an EVA=type material, add foam base, heat and ship to Costco to sell for $114.
Wavestorm boards are becoming a thing. People surf them in all kinds of intense places. The lifeguards at Kanaha have some. If you break it, you bring it back to Costco--no questions asked. Well, maybe something like "isn't this the eighth board you've broken??"
JOB rode one into Peahi last week. Turned it into four pieces. I don't think it was a wavestorm though.
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Hey!
We're lucky to have both customs and popouts
and all in between....the best of worlds.
;D
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I happen to be a popout myself.
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Somewhere along the way there became a favorite flavor on how the rubber meets the road.
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I'm a kook on an inflatable pop out. I don't know if I like "pop" and "inflatable" in the same term.
It's good enough for the time being and learning skill level. When I am firm upper grom to lower journeyman status, I might get a hard board, Hammers sound good.
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I think most people use the term "pop-outs" to describe mass produced, and therefore cheaper boards (in both meanings). But in fact these production boards aren't made in a very different way from custom boards.
I've always equated "custom" to something that was specifically tailored to a person's skill, strengths, weaknesses, physical attributes, style, etc. One example being tennis rackets the pros use...while they may say Wilson or Head or whatever, they're not the same one you'd pick up at Sports Authority or Big 5. I imagine it's the same for pro surf/sup'ers in the magazines riding Naish, Hobie, etc.
So when I started reading about custom boards I pictured the shaper going out with the SUPer and creating a board that would compliment/enhance his particular style/ability. From what I'm reading here, "custom" more or less means "not mass produced".
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I think most people use the term "pop-outs" to describe mass produced, and therefore cheaper boards (in both meanings). But in fact these production boards aren't made in a very different way from custom boards.
I've always equated "custom" to something that was specifically tailored to a person's skill, strengths, weaknesses, physical attributes, style, etc. One example being tennis rackets the pros use...while they may say Wilson or Head or whatever, they're not the same one you'd pick up at Sports Authority or Big 5. I imagine it's the same for pro surf/sup'ers in the magazines riding Naish, Hobie, etc.
So when I started reading about custom boards I pictured the shaper going out with the SUPer and creating a board that would compliment/enhance his particular style/ability. From what I'm reading here, "custom" more or less means "not mass produced".
Custom vs Production ("mass-produced" i guess) is more about philosophy than process. Custom = find a client 1st, then build him/her a board. Production = build the board you think a client will buy.
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"Custom vs Production ("mass-produced" i guess) is more about philosophy than process. Custom = find a client 1st, then build him/her a board. Production = build the board you think a client will buy. "
I agree RAF. Every "custom" board I have had, always started out with several long discussions with the shaper, as to what I wanted the board to do for me. Some worked and some didn't thats the gamble with custom.
I think in the context of this discussion though, custom refers to more traditional board construction. For prone boards, most shapers have "off the shelf" models, but still will build you a custom board. No real difference in the final product, but it was made specifically for you. For SUP's, there are very few shapers who will build you a custom board. Most SUP boards come from some level of mass production, but they are still essentially hand made boards, just a lot of them being built at the same time.
For prone, all my boards are true customs. Why not, they didn't cost any more than an off the shelf model. However, for SUP, I have production boards. Joe Blair sells an 8'10" SUP for $880. To get a custom SUP from Joe, is over $1,200. I know that that trend is changing, especially when I see Naish 32' wides going for a ridiculous $2,000+. why would anyone pay that money for a Naish.
The one advantage that SUP has is that you can demo most boards now. However, even if demoed that Naish and really loved, I think I would just have a custom built, with similar design traits as the Naish. I know that the resale not might be as good, but every sup I have sold, I let the buyer go out and use it. A custom just might take a little longer to sell. As far as waiting for a custom to get built, I am amazed how long some of the zoners in distant lands wait to get a board, they have only read about.
So far I have ridden about 15 different surf sup's, and am getting to that point where I know what I want, and as usual it all comes down to a compromise between balance and performance. Will I buy custom or "pop-out". Don't know yet!
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Custom board builders as well as production board brands are known for their vision of what works best in the water, and favored by surfers that believe in their vision. The level of customization is often based on board length determined by the surfer's physical characteristics. A truly custom board is tailored specifically for what a surfer likes to do, her style, and type of wave surfed. This requires the surfer to know what they like through a lot of trial and error. Is it possible to find a production board that meets your vision, style, and wave? Sure it is. Is one more likely to find that perfect combination by having it custom made? Yes, provided you know exactly what you want and the builder is good at interpreting your request and executing the order.
A pop-out connotes a cheap mass produced poor quality board purchased by the uninformed. In my neck of the woods Hanson, Hobie, Surfboards Hawaii, Dewy Weber, Gordon and Smith, Harbour, et. al churned out hundreds if not thousands of boards that were never considered pop-outs. So even "mass produced" is a difficult description of the ilk.
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I think two good examples to demonstrate custom vs pop-out/production are Bark & SIC. They both do custom boards and also have pop-out/production lines.
Bark has their pop-outs in the Dominator, Competitor, Candice boards made by Surftech.
SIC has their pop-outs in the Bullets, X Series, Recon made by Flo Sports.
So pop-outs/production boards aren't necessarily cheap mass produced poor quality boards purchased by the uninformed. Would you consider Coreban, Fanatic, Naish, Riviera, etc. to be cheap and poor quality?
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My thoughts are once you ride a custom its very hard to go back to riding a mass produced board. They just feel way different. I mean its to me like a complete different type of board, even if the specs are very close to one another. I started this thought with the the idea of how somebody on this zone gets a new mass produce board, right away somebody ask what does it weigh? It seems to be the first and most important question. My thoughts are no matter what it weighs its not going to be as light as a custom with most of the same measurements. I guess another thought I had was you feed the people who feed you. I spend my money when i can on a custom, my shaper turns around and spends his money at my place of business, in turn it stays in our local area. Its very hard for me to imagine just giving my money to a big business, unfortunately surfing prone or surfing sup has really turned into big business. Totally heartbreaking.
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I'm a big custom fan and I think that is in large part due to my shaper at PlusOne. I can give him a rough idea of what I want the board to do and he'll advise me on size and shape. For instance, I'll tell him where I'm planning on surfing, that I want it similar to another board he made me, but either faster, more stable, better at catching waves, what ever. We then discuss the options and he will come up with another magic board. This is how I define a true custom.
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My size precludes me from buying pop-out boards, considering I like riding smaller equipment.
If like the unwashed SUP masses who just drop in and go straight on a 10'6 from China, I'd have a pile of options to choose from.
My first two boards were the 11'6 and the 10'6 from Riviera. $800' including a paddle? They must be made by children in Thailand.
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We provide our clients with options...it's not just a production vs custom choice with our board line...
We currently have 22 board models that we offer as production OR custom...with several different available construction and color options...and, we do have demo boards of many of the models...
http://blog.surfingsports.com/2011/09/supsports-new-sup-models.html (http://blog.surfingsports.com/2011/09/supsports-new-sup-models.html)
http://surfingsports.com/hammer.asp (http://surfingsports.com/hammer.asp)
We chose to offer some custom models not as production models...of course, we can tweak any of our custom models to exact specifications outside of the set model parameters...
We also offer quasi-custom tweaking on our production boards with ~90 day turnaround times from our factory...our California built customs run 3-7 weeks dependent on normal glass shop operation capacity...
We also offer ultra-premium artisan quality customs that can run out to 8 weeks...although, we have an incredible blue flame 9'2" Stoke carbon getting finished this week that's at the 5 week mark...not bad with the holiday season...
http://surfingsports.com/sups_ultra_premium/album/index.html (http://surfingsports.com/sups_ultra_premium/album/index.html)
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Early in this thread the question asked was "what is a pop-out?" I agree with those that suggest mass production does not adequately describe what surfers meant when they coined the term. "Production board" is a good way to describe a well made board that is produced in large quantities. Custom board is a good way to describe a board that is made for a specific person. Pop-out in the early days did mean mass produced but more importantly meant inferior quality and basically soulless. I would not ascribe the term pop-out to a board just because it is made in quantity. On the other hand I've seen boards that started to take on water in their first season that absolutely defined the term.
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I've always been a proponent of demoing. It's critical for beginners and even novices. I know I always liked being able to try before I buy, tougher to do with your local shaper (at least for most...I wish Wardog was closer)
Now that I know what I'm looking for (at least I think I do) I'll likely go custom from this point on. Unless I get on a production board that feels awesome.... ;D
Welcome to the zone.
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after doing a hole load of repairs for people recently on production boards and seeing how they are made its shocking whats under all that paint, and when you know whats under its criminal to think what the companies charge.
Even if you pay the same amount for a custom board if its from a reputable shaper with any sort of pride in what they do they will be using the best materials they can get and not chop strand matt, plumbers plastic pipe and metal staples that seam to be the regular thing im finding at the moment even from the big name brands coming out of cobra.
Its also interesting to see most of the companies are now all so cutting the amount of carbon going into there boards in half going by there technical spec to try and save some money.
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We provide our clients with options...it's not just a production vs custom choice with our board line...
We currently have 22 board models that we offer as production OR custom...with several different available construction and color options...and, we do have demo boards of many of the models...
http://blog.surfingsports.com/2011/09/supsports-new-sup-models.html (http://blog.surfingsports.com/2011/09/supsports-new-sup-models.html)
http://surfingsports.com/hammer.asp (http://surfingsports.com/hammer.asp)
We chose to offer some custom models not as production models...of course, we can tweak any of our custom models to exact specifications outside of the set model parameters...
We also offer quasi-custom tweaking on our production boards with ~90 day turnaround times from our factory...our California built customs run 3-7 weeks dependent on normal glass shop operation capacity...
We also offer ultra-premium artisan quality customs that can run out to 8 weeks...although, we have an incredible blue flame 9'2" Stoke carbon getting finished this week that's at the 5 week mark...not bad with the holiday season...
http://surfingsports.com/sups_ultra_premium/album/index.html (http://surfingsports.com/sups_ultra_premium/album/index.html)
I forgot about you guys. You guys do have very high-end "pop-out" stuff for a spectrum of paddlers/surfers AND your custom stuff also reaches from the little to the leviathan.
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Custom board is a good way to describe a board that is made for a specific person. Pop-out in the early days did mean mass produced but more importantly meant inferior quality and basically soulless. I would not ascribe the term pop-out to a board just because it is made in quantity. On the other hand I've seen boards that started to take on water in their first season that absolutely defined the term.
Agreed.
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after doing a hole load of repairs for people recently on production boards and seeing how they are made its shocking whats under all that paint, and when you know whats under its criminal to think what the companies charge.
Even if you pay the same amount for a custom board if its from a reputable shaper with any sort of pride in what they do they will be using the best materials they can get and not chop strand matt, plumbers plastic pipe and metal staples that seam to be the regular thing im finding at the moment even from the big name brands coming out of cobra.
Its also interesting to see most of the companies are now all so cutting the amount of carbon going into there boards in half going by there technical spec to try and save some money.
Is there any way to know what brands cut corners that come out of Cobra or do they all cut corners?
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supuk, my request to divulge the bad actors at cobra asks something you can only answer anecdotally. It's hard to hear that you have plunked down a bunch of cash on something you believe is high quality and learn that you may have paid for sloppy craftsmanship and downgraded carbon.
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Its possible to imagine chopped strand matt, plastic plumbers pipe and even staples having an appropriate use in building a board. For instance, aren't the drainholes on sunken deck race boards commonly made from pvc pipe? Staples might be used to temporarily set a veneer before bagging?
I've cut more than a couple warranty boards up and discovered unusual things in the process as well. The stuff I've seen in sub-$1k boards is less inspiring than the stuff in the over $2k boards.