Standup Zone Forum
General => The Shape Shack => Topic started by: paddlebuilder on May 27, 2013, 11:09:42 AM
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I'm a bit of a lurker around here but thought I would post this 12-6 I made. The one on the right in photo is last year's and the one on the left is the new one which is a bulked up version of #1 with slightly more rocker (both ends), the wide point moved aft slightly and the width carried further aft ending in rounded pin tail Dimensions are 12-6 x 26.5 x 6.5 in the nose and it weighs 29#. It's made of paulownia and salvaged redwood. I was still buffing it out but really wanted to try it so that's why the door mat is on there for non slip.
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Very nice, something about a wood grain surfboard, Sup board, makes you feel good all over. You are quite a craftsman !
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Wow. Any construction pics?
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Man, those are some really great looking boards. I'll confess, the more I think about where to go next with my boards, wood is creeping in there a lot more.
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Awesome looking boards! ;D
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Thanks for the compliments! Here are some build photos. Also, I did some rec races with last years board and the board performed decently. I do the design work full scale starting with tracing paper and ending with poster board templates that I true up before going to wood.
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The design and craftsmanship is amazing. How does it paddle compared to last year’s model?
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My objective with the new board was to clean up the release off the tail and reduce the size of the nose wake. Version 1 has a double concave in the nose which due to the lower speeds of non downwind boards was wasted effort and created a secondary nose wave. So filling in the concave seems to have smoothed out the nose wake considerably and improved the upwind performance in general. I also went from 5/8" tail rocker to 1 1/4" which didn't eliminate the tail wake but really reduced it. I also moved the wide point aft about 5% (to about 58% back from the nose) carrying the standing area volume a bit further aft thereby helping to keep the tail up. So the new board seems to have better for and aft balance generally. Version 1 likes to have it's nose in the water which at least in terms of that particular board would work better with paddler in the 120-140# range. One design element that I really like is that the new board really comes around on the pivot turns. I reduced the overall height in the tail so it's easy to get it to bite but have kept the board full approaching the tail so that the tail doesn't drag. I'll be getting nonslip on the deck this week and our weather is supposed to improve so I should be able to make some gps runs on my 5 mile course which will really tell the tale!
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Thanks Paddlebuilder. The reason I ask is because I’m interested in getting a 404 Zeedonk Pintail and your design is similar. It’s amazing you were able to construct a wood board as sleek as a fiberglass race board.
Thanks again. The board is beautiful!
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Yeah, I'm thinking through a pintail design for a 14 right now. I think for a true flatwater board it's the way to go if you one can handle the tenderness. I guess in the end it's a width limitation for pintails...we find out how good our balance is quickly when they get too narrow. Regarding the finish quality on the posted board, there is a huge time investment in the finish. Maybe if I were more proficient at the finishes it wouldn't take me so bloody long! :-)
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Beautiful work. For your 14' you might find a square or squash tail gives you more design latitude. The potential for straighter rails and equal stability from a narrower hull is tough to overcome with just a better tail release. Some V in the tail will offer some of the benefit of a pin but still offer secondary stability. The pintail is certainly a more elegant form, but you have to start the inward curve of the rails pretty far forward to make it look graceful and to keep the flow from separating. And if you don't get the tail rocker and trim just right, the pin winds up waving in the air, and you have essentially a squash tail without benefit of straight rails.
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That is a ton of setup. Nice shop. Beautiful work. The 'Woody SUP'.
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I definitely agree on the elegance of pins... and that's a big part of what draws me to the shape. But then I get reminded about some of the impressively fast and modern and also very optimized shapes in modern watercraft and get drawn back that way. I appreciate the input, all. BTW the board in this thread does have a slight v in the tail...not much but it's there. Could likely be a contributing factor in quicker pivot turns?
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Great looking board, love the craftsmanship. Where did you source the paulonia, and what were the longest planks you were able to get?
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Thanks. I picked up some paulownia from David Sutton at Early Bird Nursery down in Tennessee. He would have milled me anything I wanted. I don't mind working with shorter stock and scarfing and it's easier to ship 8' max length material. Brad Tucker has 4/4 x 6" x 8' but David Sutton was able to provide 5/4 and 8/4 which for me yields much better. Price wise they are about the same per bf (bloody expensive!)
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Very good looking boards, great craftsmanship.
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Version 2 may perform better but Version 1 is drop dead gorgeous. What happens to the old versions?
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I'm new to the sport but I can certainly recognize fine craftsmanship! Those are beautiful!
BW.
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Outstanding work. Curious about your work/clamping table in the last pic with the spars and all the adjustable threaded rods. Is that to adjust rocker? Love to see the design of that.
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Yes, that's an adjustable rocker table which works pretty well. I'll PM you some better photo's of the rocker table later this evening. As far as what happened to version 1, frame kits are available at Wood Surfboard Supply and soon I'll have both available for home builders on my own site (Clearwoodpaddleboards.com) The world of hollow wood boards really sucked me in and being a woodworker by training (and a bit short of cash when I got into sup in '08) I decided to build a surf sup. Then I wanted something for the local lakes so did version 1. Version 2 has a bit more volume and rocker in hopes of being downwindable. We'll see on that score! :D When I took version 1 out to a few races last summer the board did well against 12-6 production boards and was really fun to show around. Most people are really intrigued by wood anything and the boards are no exception.
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I just bought a new 14 but it would be cool to build such a good looking board. Maybe I can justify to the wife as a "training" board. Hmm
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Just posting a bit of rocker table detail that Bulky was curious about....
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really beautiful work, congrat's and rocker table is an excellent Idea. mine is just a horizontally levelled ladder with transverse wood stuck on it, just too much approximate. but nothing between plywood and real wood construction! so much appreciate that creativity goes on!
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Thanks Pierre. I think the rocker table is useful but many likeyourself get along without an adjustable one. I use mine a fair bit so am glad I have it. But for some the lack of a rocker table is an obstacle to building a hollow. I've been working on an idea for "rocker tabs" which would be a part of the frame that is trimmed off when the board is flipped. The system would require stripping the deck and some of the rails first then flipping and stripping the bottom last. The tabs would essentially create a temporary rocker table. I think model boat builders use a variation on this theme.
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Very beautiful work!! do you glass over the wood, or how do you seal?
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Thanks, LM. Yes. the boards are glassed with 4oz top and bottom then four coats of catalyzed polyurathane for UV protection. The inside is sealed with CPC (clear penetrating epoxy) just in case water get's in. I've been riding hollows, both flatwater and in the surf for a few years now and so far haven't poked any holes in any of them. Paulownia wood is quite ding resistant actually. I did forget to put the vent screw in one of them once though with no long term ill effects.
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Thanks, LM. Yes. the boards are glassed with 4oz top and bottom then four coats of catalyzed polyurathane for UV protection. The inside is sealed with CPC (clear penetrating epoxy) just in case water get's in. I've been riding hollows, both flatwater and in the surf for a few years now and so far haven't poked any holes in any of them. Paulownia wood is quite ding resistant actually. I did forget to put the vent screw in one of them once though with no long term ill effects.
Really nice! just a glace at your tooling & you can see your dedication but looking at your actual work is inspiring. Over the years I've built thousands of boards (foam) but not a one as pretty as these. There's just something about quality woodwork & I think it's great that the craftsmanship that it took to build these is evident in the finished product; which is something I've always thought epoxy boards lacked, they do. There's so much sloppy craftsmanship that gets painted over with the standard epoxy board. Don't get me wrong, they have their advantages, it's just that most peoples jaw would drop if they saw what was underneath the paint. An old friend of mine on Maui used to build hollow wood surfboards & he never had any trouble with any of them...they always looked a bit "funky" though, nothing near the finished quality of yours, but he charged & they never seemed to hold him back.
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Thanks for the nice words about my work and comments in general about the state of the production surfboard industry. Like you say, foamies have their place as do woodies for those that want to take on the craft of it. Not dropping names here but I'm a regular in the town where Greg Noll lives (Crescent City) and had a conversation with him recently about the state of the "art" of production foam boards...his comments were much the same as the comments you have made regarding the level of work being done on the production end. My personal goals with woodies are number one: have fun!, and number two: show others that wood boards can perform nearly as well if not better than foam, last a really long time, look great and are fun to make if you get into the craft of it. Thanks for responding to my post, LM.
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The penetrating epoxy is a good idea. I put a ding in my hollow wood surf SUP, and a 2 years after it happened, there is still a few pounds of excess weight from water absorbed by the very dry redwood planking. What brand did you use?
I'm also interested in your polyurethane finish. The gloss looks great, and I'm curious what you used and how you applied it. I used traditional spar varnish, and won't do that again. It looked beautiful, but the varnish is not very tough, and it took a long time and many coats. Fixing dings is tough because it's difficult to feather in new varnish to the old, and the color match is never there. Fantastic work, it gets me itching to get back into the work shop.
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Thanks for the nice words about my work and comments in general about the state of the production surfboard industry. Like you say, foamies have their place as do woodies for those that want to take on the craft of it. Not dropping names here but I'm a regular in the town where Greg Noll lives (Crescent City) and had a conversation with him recently about the state of the "art" of production foam boards...his comments were much the same as the comments you have made regarding the level of work being done on the production end. My personal goals with woodies are number one: have fun!, and number two: show others that wood boards can perform nearly as well if not better than foam, last a really long time, look great and are fun to make if you get into the craft of it. Thanks for responding to my post, LM.
I meant "glance" before...& you forgot one kinda cool (at least I think) point; your woodies will be around in 100 years & even if they're only hanging on a wall somewhere that says something because not too many foamies will be. It's true a lot of the craftsmanship is getting lost with new production techniques, even fairly recently when everything (or most everything) was polyurethane foam and polyester resin everyone from the shaper to the sander still had to be on their toes & really know their craft, any mistake would show in the finished product. Now some hack can sink a grinder into the rail & a little body filler & bingo problem solved. Again, don't get me wrong, there are some true craftsmen doing some amazing work with composite board building but for some reason the end product in most cases (like for instance "brushed carbon") is just a bit harder to call "art"
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Yeah, really agree LM. I really like the work Robin Mair is into. Very keen craftsman by the looks of it and has been really helpful for me in sort out fins.