Standup Zone Forum
Stand Up Paddle => Gear Talk => Topic started by: DavidJohn on February 03, 2012, 05:20:44 AM
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Today I got to paddle the very new 12'6" Starboard BOP board and compare it to my new 12'6" Naish BOP board.
From a distance they seem pretty similar.
(http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy27/djp-3/DJ%202012%20pics/IMGP01Medium.jpg)
(http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy27/djp-3/DJ%202012%20pics/IMGP02Medium.jpg)
Up close you can see they are very different boards.
(http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy27/djp-3/DJ%202012%20pics/IMGP03Medium.jpg)
From the rear you can see how the Naish is super boxy and thick and the Starboard is much thiner and swoopy-doopy.
(http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy27/djp-3/DJ%202012%20pics/IMGP04Medium.jpg)
(http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy27/djp-3/DJ%202012%20pics/IMGP05Medium.jpg)
The upside down nose and deck ridge is extream on the new Starbie.
(http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy27/djp-3/DJ%202012%20pics/IMGP06Medium.jpg)
(http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy27/djp-3/DJ%202012%20pics/IMGP07Medium.jpg)
(http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy27/djp-3/DJ%202012%20pics/IMGP08Medium.jpg)
(http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy27/djp-3/DJ%202012%20pics/IMGP09Medium.jpg)
You can see here that although it looks like a flat water board it actually has quite a bit of rocker.
(http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy27/djp-3/DJ%202012%20pics/IMGP10Medium.jpg)
(http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy27/djp-3/DJ%202012%20pics/IMGP11Medium.jpg)
(http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy27/djp-3/DJ%202012%20pics/IMGP12Medium.jpg)
(http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy27/djp-3/DJ%202012%20pics/IMGP13Medium.jpg)
(http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy27/djp-3/DJ%202012%20pics/IMGP14Medium.jpg)
Viewed upside down the nose looks almost normal.
(http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy27/djp-3/DJ%202012%20pics/IMGP15Medium.jpg)
(http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy27/djp-3/DJ%202012%20pics/IMGP16Medium.jpg)
The rails are very rounded and soft with a tucked rail towards the rear with an edge in the last foot or so.
(http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy27/djp-3/DJ%202012%20pics/IMGP17Medium.jpg)
There is a fairly deep single concave running through most of the board that stops about 5-6" from the rail where it slopes towards the rail in a sort of chine.
(http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy27/djp-3/DJ%202012%20pics/IMGP18Medium.jpg)
Just before the fin it turns into a double barrel concave.
(http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy27/djp-3/DJ%202012%20pics/IMGP19Medium.jpg)
Stepping on it felt very stable and felt fast.. You could paddle it hard and it just went faster but paddling really hard caused it to do something odd.. It did something that we called 'the sprinkler' because there was s fine sprinkle of water coming off each side of the nose.. backing off turned the sprinkler off and the water flowed smoothly around and over the nose.
(http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy27/djp-3/DJ%202012%20pics/IMGP20Medium.jpg)
(http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy27/djp-3/DJ%202012%20pics/IMGP21Medium.jpg)
If you look close in this pic you can see the sprinkler effect coming off the nose.. it doesn't seem to effect the performance at all.
(http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy27/djp-3/DJ%202012%20pics/IMGP22Medium.jpg)
Slower speeds had a nice pealing wave.
(http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy27/djp-3/DJ%202012%20pics/IMGP23Medium.jpg)
I liked it.. The lower volume in the rails will cause it to tip over if you are a heavy person where the secondary floatation on the Naish is much more solid.
(http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy27/djp-3/DJ%202012%20pics/IMGP24Medium.jpg)
(http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy27/djp-3/DJ%202012%20pics/IMGP25Medium.jpg)
Jonathan is going to take this demo board on our next down-winder and see how it goes.
DJ
(http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy27/djp-3/DJ%202012%20pics/IMGP26Medium.jpg)
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Hi DJ
Excellent pictorial essay about this model !
It's a 12.6 x 25.5" without thick rails, I expected it to be unstable, but your perception regarding stability is very encouraging. Specially since you're taller and heavier than me.
In the other hand, the sprinkler effect in the nose may mean it's digging into the water instead of piercing. I've felt similar effects while paddling boards with piercing bow if I'm standing too much forward.
Please keep us posted after the downwinder, thanks for the ride !
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Hi DJ
Excellent pictorial essay about this model !
It's a 12.6 x 25.5" without thick rails, I expected it to be unstable, but your perception regarding stability is very encouraging. Specially since you're taller and heavier than me.
In the other hand, the sprinkler effect in the nose may mean it's digging into the water instead of piercing. I've felt similar effects while paddling boards with piercing bow if I'm standing too much forward.
Please keep us posted after the downwinder, thanks for the ride !
Thanks.. btw this is the 28.5" version.. They also do a narrow version that's about 26.5" wide.
DJ
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Thanks for the pictures showing the major design features. The board certainly looks nice and fast. Any chance of some speed numbers on this in the future?
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It's a 12.6 x 25.5" without thick rails, I expected it to be unstable, but your perception regarding stability is very encouraging. Specially since you're taller and heavier than me.
Please keep us posted after the downwinder, thanks for the ride !
Thanks.. btw this is the 28.5" version.. They also do a narrow version that's about 26.5" wide.
DJ
I got to have my eyes checked, I had to zoom on that bottom picture a lot to see the 28.5 " ! :'(
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Nice review DJ (as always); looking forward to hearing about the downwind performance.
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Nice comparison. Any initial thoughts on flat water speed between the two? The SB looks more purpose driven, being sleeker and less chunky. I personally prefer the shape and look of the Naish and it looks like the more versatile SUP. Lots of Volume for the 200+ pounders out there.
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Great review as usual DJ! I can see that this is the AST model, any idea what the weight is? The website lists weights but in my experience, they tend to exagerate a bit on the light side.
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I've noticed that perfect peeling wave on my racebrd as well. weird.
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Nice review DJ, thanks for sharing. Admin needs to start paying you for these reviews. ;D
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I want one with traction on both sides so I can kick flip and have a traditional hull shape .
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Thanks for the great review DJ, so nice to bump into you yesterday and have you do all the hard work And thanks Paul from The Zu for letting me demo the board.
GREAT board, I'm seriously thinking about getting the 28.5 as a very friendly all rounder, trouble is that lately my boards have gone a little too 'full on' and when friends new to SUP want me to take them for a paddle it doesn't really work on the 25" Ace or even the Gun. Only problem is that little voice inside me that keeps saying the 26.5 will be faster - get that one - must fight that urge!
So nice to paddle something I don't have to concentrate on and the BOP is a fast board, be really interesting to line it up beside some of the other 12'6 boards out there. The description says its faster than the Starboard Race boards in flatter water and I believe it, in our totally unbiased scientifically valid university tested 12'6 test...the Starbie Race 27.5 was even-steven with the Fanatic 12'6 and the Javelin, these BOP boards will be right up there or even faster without going to the full on Ace Pro flat water style. As I see it this thing will be fun to surf and downwind on as well as being good on flat water. I'd be gripping that sucker all the way back before it hit the water!
Funny thing in our 12'6 test, my favourite board to take home if I was dead honest would have been the Coreban 12'6 because I just love the way that thing surfs and downwinds - sure it was pretty slow in the flat but not too bad. I'm really not into ultimate flat water speed much more about feeling like its not dragging in the water and being fun. Think I've just found something to push that baby aside
Interesting how getting onto something new re-invigorates the passion, my head has been full of surf ski's lately. This board just re fired-up that whole cruising around with your friends having fun thing that SUP is really about. If I get one it will be the cheaper AST so I don't have to worry about it, probably even wack a bit of tape on the rails so any newbies can bang away to their hearts content and I won't give it a second thought. Bit like the old days with my first SUP the Starbie 12'6 Cruiser, still miss that board, should never have sold it...
CMC said...
Great review DJ, Starboard are bringing out some good looking new product. Starting to go more the direction of other brands in some ways dare I say.
Interesting you say that CMC, have to agree, Starboard have pushed so far into that 'clubbie' nose shape on the race boards I really felt that there was a whole end of the market that they had missed. Don't get me wrong, in rough water those 'clubbie' nose style boards are just amazing the way they pierce but retain buoyancy without slowing the board, and they have really evolved that and created something quite unique. Maybe so unique that it puts people off buying them on looks alone....
The BOP boards to be honest have a very distinctive looking nose, not unattractive just very 'different' and a little bit 'stealth'. In flat water it works like a charm, I'll be really interested to see how it goes on a wave and down-winding. From the side the board looks very thin and the rails are super rounded until a long way back, certainly won't be catching on a wave - I guess that's crucial in a BOP race.
So you can rest assured, even though this board is more 'normal' Starboard are sticking to their formula of being just that bit different.
But they feel much more like a regular board and they look much more like a regular board and for just cruising around I think they are spot on - I'd kinda forgotten what it felt like to be on a flat deck race board. It just felt huge to me like I was on a 32" wide board because there was so much real estate to walk around on and it was so stable.
Looked down at one stage when I was paddling hard and realised I had my feet about 6" apart and slightly pigeon toed as if I was standing in the footwells of the Ace trying to smooth out the bumpy churning rough water I've been paddling in lately. Had a chuckle to myself when I realised I could lighten up and relax.
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Got to paddle the AST version yesterday in some choppy waters, what a great board! This was the 28.5" wide model and I'm 165 lbs. The board has an initial tippyness probably due to the low volume rails as mentioned earlier, but the secondary stability is quite good on this model and for my weight. I decided to stand a bit forward of center and power through some incoming chop, the reverse nose did awesome! Got the board to dig all the way to the Starboard tiki head with no obvious slowing down in speed! Pretty cool to see the nose just punch through the chop and just keep on going! I am very impressed with this board! The AST model weighed in at 28 lbs whereas the Carbon was 23.5 lbs. The BOP feels pretty slick on the water, course I'm use to 32 pound 14-17 foot boards, but none-the-less, felt pretty effortless to keep it moving and turning around with the chop, the board picks up the little bumps quite well. I think the best way to describe this board is that it's lively! What a fun and fast board!
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... the sprinkler effect in the nose may mean it's digging into the water instead of piercing. I've felt similar effects while paddling boards with piercing bow if I'm standing too much forward.
I've had the use of the new SB 14x30 touring this week and have experienced this effect in a big way - The Touring has a similar nose config to the BoP, only it flares out a bit more and it has less rocker. I am a couple of inches shorter than DJ but about 60 pounds heavier - standing forward on the Touring and paddling with (my) full power causes the nose to actively dive a bit, to a point where it starts to dig in and slow down. Step back a bit and the nose comes up to a nice trim and problem solved. Not a terrible thing, just a trim issue and possibly only effects cruiserweights like me.
Don't get me wrong, the tourer is a gem - very slick and stable, tracks beautifully and LOVES a runner, would probably order one if the shed wasn't full.
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I'm very interested in the comments comparing the BOP to the Touring as I'm having a hard time deciding which one to buy. I know the BOP is a race board, but it seems like it would be a very good board for a variety of conditions, providing you're not too heavy. is that a fair statement?
I'm only 160lbs and the 277 liter volume of the 12'6" Touring seems a little much. The 220 liter volume of the BOP seems more reasonable for my weight. I also like the fact that the BOP has a bit more nose rocker as I plan to use occasionally on The Great Lakes.
Is there any reason why the BOP would be not be ahold choice? Any feedback is appreciated.
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Beaner, I'm 165 lbs and the BOP felt great! Very lively board so for those who want smooth maximum stability, maybe not this board. But if you are looking for a 12'6" board that has a surfy kinda feel, flat deck, that is fast, feels slick on the water, and can push through chop and catch bumps..probably surf too, this is a great choice! Right now, if I was to get a 12'6", this would be the board. For heavier paddlers, maybe the Ace, Naish Glide would be a better match.
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Thanks Takeo... Your comments confirm what I was thinking. I have no ability to actually see or demo this board before ordering, so reviews and pictures like these are great.
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Beaner,
If you are serious about this board and want more feedback, pics, maybe even videos, PM me and maybe I can send them to you via email. I got a couple friends who just got the 12'6" BOP so I'll be taking video of them as well as paddling the board myself. You should see that nose burry and pop out when going into chop, super fun stuff! Any sprinkler effects to me is just fun, not a drawback at all if the board keeps on punching through the chop! The stock fin keeps the board fairly loose, I'm sure for those who need more stability could slap on a Larry Allison fin like a Gladiator Hybrid. This board blows away the old 12'6" Race model in speed for sure in the choppy conditions I paddled in the other day, but the older model was more stable. I'm curious to see how the board performs in even rougher conditions, I really don't care how it performs in flatwater since it's not technically a flatwater board.
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Takeo– sounds like your digging the BOP...i know u said u don't care about flatwater performance BUT i am definitely interested to know how it does in flatwater races. Have any of your freinds used the BOP in a fw race?
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Freetobeme,
The BOP boards just arrived this week and to be honest, we don't have flatwater races here in Hawaii, unless it's an open ocean race and the conditions are somewhat flat. Our bay here in Hilo does get flat from time to time and if it does, I can give a report back on this thread. I would think though the better Starboard for flatwater would be the Ace Pro and even the Ace, maybe the Aussies can attest to that. The BOP has a bit of rocker so the nose is off the water, decreasing the waterline in flatwater conditions, but it sure loves the chop!
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Here is a little video I made a couple of weeks ago, I was on the Carbon 26.5" wide version of the BOP, very nice little board :)
Starboard BOP Carbon 12'6 x 26.5" (http://vimeo.com/39525911)
pity the camera angle is so high...
you get to see DJ's high camera mount at the 30 second mark...
I found the BOP to be really good fun down winding but quite critical, the rocker seems more of a surfing rocker and you need to be prepared to move up and down the board to get the most out of it. Need to be forward to get onto the wave then move back to stop the nose going in too deep, saying that, hopefully you can see in the video how little affect it has on the speed of the board when it does pierce a little. If you move back too far too quickly it tends to bog down and stall, so there is a transition where you step back a little as soon as you are on the wave then if its big step back even further.
In the middle position, the board felt a little squirelly sometimes, not really unstable just some side to side directional instability but once getting right back it surfs beautifully. I think a slightly bigger fin would help for downwinding. Think it had the Slater Trout FCS in, but I'm not sure. Also it was my first run and it always takes a little while to dial in a new board.
Some waves I found I had to let go, even though its light and fast it just has a little too much rocker to really accelerate over the crest of the wave and onto the next one, but of course its only 12'6.
Not really fair, it's not designed for down-winding but the light nimble feel it has makes it really fun, and when you are back it surfs beautifully, I'd love to take it out in some clean big waves.
This narrow version feels very small, in the carbon, so light, under 10kilo roughly 21lbs.
Very different feel to the Ace, the Ace boards just catch a ripple and stay on it, they aren't critical as to where you are standing but also not as much fun when you are on the wave. Much more suited to someone that tends to stand in one position, for those people the magic of the BOP would be lost when downwinding.
I love the Ace boards, you can surf them but it takes a lot more commitment to move right back on them. I did a BOP race recently on a 12'6 x 25 New and was surprised how well it actually caught real waves, mind you I did fall on one too!
As far as flat water goes, too much rocker in the BOP to be high level competitive, much better with the Ace if there is chop or the Ace Pro if its flat - I still think the Ace is very hard to beat, even on flat water, in any race there is all sorts of turbulence and small chop from other boards. But if you want a race board that also surfs, and is just heaps of fun go the BOP.
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Here's a short clip of my friend on his BOP AST model, 28.5 wide. He's about 200 lbs. You can see how the nose just pierces through the chop with ease.
www.vimeo.com/39992195 (http://www.vimeo.com/39992195)