Standup Zone Forum
Stand Up Paddle => Gear Talk => Topic started by: beached on August 01, 2011, 04:18:46 AM
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i've been using an NSP 11'6"*33" and though i know it's a monster, i really love it in the surf. because it is so stable, i can stay out there for hours. yet, i know turning the thing is like turning a truck. i tried a Naish Mana 10'*32", but felt the change was too dramatic and that board didn't come close to the stability i'm used to. i also seriously doubt it has 210 ltrs of volume, as is stated. my NSP is 225 ltrs. my weight is 210, height 6'3". i'm not into cruising, just surf.
sooo, any slightly larger guys out there have any suggestions? it may be i should just stick to my NSP until i get better, but WILL i get better using it? i thought about the Whopper, but that has even less volume than what i believe the 10' Mana to have (~180 is my guess). Anyone tried the Coreban EZ? Or is it the length i should consider more (i.e., 10'6" should be my minimum?).
sorry about all the questions, but it's all relatively new to me. thx.
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I'm 6'4" 215 and love my Coreban Icon. Definitely worth checking out... stable and very maneuverable. I have it set up as a quad with Future controllers.
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the 10ft mana def has 210ltrs to it. it's the one i use and i'm the same weight. if you didn't like that try the Nalu 11'4 it's little longer.
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The 10' Mana gets my vote too.. I'm your height and weight and I love mine.
DJ
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Don't go from a NSP to an EZ if you want to progress your surfing. Get the width of your board down. You're going to have to put the time in on a smaller board to get use to it. Provided your not making a drastic step down, it only takes a few session to get use to a new size.
I went from a 11-6x30 Cruiser, down to the 10x29.5 Icon. Now I'm okay riding the 9-6 Performer and 9-0 Fusion on most days (240+ pounds). Whatever you choose, just don't go too narrow. Below 29" will probably become a challenge. For surfing, the 11-6 will feel like a massive barge once you get use to something a little smaller.
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Joe Blair 10'1" gets my vote. Super stable back when I was 245 lbs (I'm 6-1). Great price, surfs nicely, good set of fins, and pretty durable. Shouldn't be too much of a learning curve. Joe's in Solana Beach but can ship too.
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I'm a bit bigger than you and love the Starboard Wide Points...have both the 8'10" and the 10'5". Being tall, the stability of 32" width helps out in my usual less-than-clean conditions. Volume-wise, both float my 220 lbs very well.
For you stepping down from your big board, look at the larger 10'5" WP. I have ridden all of the boards mentioned (except for the Coreban EZ and Fusion) but have an Icon. In every aspect the WP out-performs all of them. Great paddler, fast on a wave and responsive in turns. Just a really, really well-designed board. And so far has been very durable.
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10.5 Wide Point can't go wrong and good luck finding a board that's this wide and still surfs very very well.
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It kills me how many people take a proverbial size 16 or size 8 shoe and try to make it fit a size 13 foot. With that said all I do is SUP surf I am about the same size as you guys and have stable boards down to 7'10" range.
Ask yourself: What kind of surfing do I like to do on my SUP? Classic log style, performance longboard style, or funshape ripping or full on short board hotdogging?
Figure out what you want to do with the board find a good experienced shaper, be honest about your ability and have him build you a perfect fit. What you will end up with is a series of stepping stones as your ability progresses so will your boards. Rather than stuffing your proverbial SUP foot in a size 9 shoe.
I get quite a few guys asking the same things as you and I build this 11' SUP nose rider longboard style that is made to fit the riders weight, mine is 3.5" thick 30" wide has the exact amount of foam in it that it takes to float me and thats how these are made for people. Ironically enough I build quite a few of these strictly surf SUP 11'ers and not to many months later the purchasers usually order a custom 9'6" performance longboard style SUP which I seem to be a good majority of my production right now. Good all around size for a variety of conditions and a good jumping off point to the sub 9ft SUPs.
My philosophy as a shaper for well over 2 decades if you want to surf find a good experienced shaper who surfs SUPs to build your craft. You won't be sorry.
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I've got to chime in here for the SB Widepoint - I've had my 10.5 out a several times now and it works very well for me - I spend much more time standing - going through the wash on the way out and it has allowed me to extend my sessions when the wind picks up and the water gets rough and choppy. It surfs like a much smaller board - quick getting on the wave and turns much more easily - someone got this one right in the design. Also seems very durable so far...
my .02
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Get the width of your board down. You're going to have to put the time in on a smaller board to get use to it. Provided your not making a drastic step down, it only takes a few session to get use to a new size.
I agree. I went from the same board (NSP 11'6) to a 10'6 Laird/Pearson Arrow - freakin awesome board for surfing. Its a much thinner board, floats me fine, great shape, rails, everything - pretty happy with it. I did wait though - wanted to make sure I was more experienced with the NSP - also I surf long boards, so the switch was a little easier.
I also did a few session on flat water to get used to the different size and balance - I didn't want to hurt myself or anyone else in the surf.
Rent a few different sizes to see what you like. Best of luck!
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Cheapest thing first, try messing around with your fin set up. Take off the side bites and move your center fin forward (or back) in the box, see if that's more what you had in mind.
What board to buy next depends on what you want it to do, and how many boards you intend to have in your quiver. I think everyone needs a big board for really small days and teaching your friends, etc.
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^^^^^^^^
ahhh, tha nsp 11,6.....
had it last year as my first board and really liked it.
i would suggest the fin-thing too. it goes a lot faster without the sidebites.
then i horsetraded mine for a 11,6 nalu and was surprised, how much faster that is!
but also a good bit wigglier. but you get used to it quick.
i kinda regret, that i donīt have the nsp anymore. it was heavy but a good board. i was able to pose a "hang 5" on a flat lake. canīt do that on my newer boards anymore. ;D
eddie
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thx for all the good suggestions. i have no intentions of getting rid of my NSP till it 'dies'. But from the comments i suppose there's no magical board out there that will give me the stability of the big NSP with better surfing capability. i was (lazily) hoping there would be. I've never surfed a day in my life till getting on the NSP, so 'slashing' the waves is beyond my comprehrension at this pt. i just enjoy those nice long rides, but like everything, ya gotta progress or it gets dull.
I think the Starboard WP might be a better fit for my next step up...baby steps for me i suppose. plus i'll try messing w/my current fins...didn't realize that made such a difference. thx again!
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It kills me how many people take a proverbial size 16 or size 8 shoe and try to make it fit a size 13 foot. With that said all I do is SUP surf I am about the same size as you guys and have stable boards down to 7'10" range.
Ask yourself: What kind of surfing do I like to do on my SUP? Classic log style, performance longboard style, or funshape ripping or full on short board hotdogging?
Figure out what you want to do with the board find a good experienced shaper, be honest about your ability and have him build you a perfect fit. What you will end up with is a series of stepping stones as your ability progresses so will your boards. Rather than stuffing your proverbial SUP foot in a size 9 shoe.
I get quite a few guys asking the same things as you and I build this 11' SUP nose rider longboard style that is made to fit the riders weight, mine is 3.5" thick 30" wide has the exact amount of foam in it that it takes to float me and thats how these are made for people. Ironically enough I build quite a few of these strictly surf SUP 11'ers and not to many months later the purchasers usually order a custom 9'6" performance longboard style SUP which I seem to be a good majority of my production right now. Good all around size for a variety of conditions and a good jumping off point to the sub 9ft SUPs.
My philosophy as a shaper for well over 2 decades if you want to surf find a good experienced shaper who surfs SUPs to build your craft. You won't be sorry.
Hey Ron, since you deal with way more people asking you for advice than us regular people, I wonder how you go about learning the following about a person so you make the right recommendation. It's something I struggle with when asked.
1) Judging the persons personality. For example, are they cry babies when faced with a challenge. Or do they love new challenges and laugh and enjoy it more, the harder it is.
The answer to this question can make a huge difference in what we recommend. Unfortunately it's hard to come right out and ask it this way, but it's what we really need to know. I face the same predicament making windsurfing and kitesurfing recommendations too. ;D
The harder it is, the more fun for me. I can get people in trouble recommending what I would do ;D
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You hit the nail on the head DW. You can be the same weight and height as a person, and your recommendation for a progressive board will be dead wrong because of the person's expectations, experience and personality.
I'm guessing if Beached found the 10x32 Mana to be too small, the Coreban Icon won't be much good at 10x30. If you are really looking for stability, I don't think it would hurt to go wide, maybe the EZ34. Try one if you can. Thats really the best way to know.
raf
Coreban dealer
www.soposup.com (http://www.soposup.com)
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The EZ will be more fun than the NSP in the surf....depending on the surf. I've had the NSP in pretty heavy surf in Nicaragua. I wouldn't take the lighter, wider EZ out in the same conditions. One too many heavy wave lips to the nose and it might be repair time. Personally I would not move to a 3" wider board just so I could loose a foot or so in length. Also, depending on your surfing skills, big wide noses are a nice target fir paddles, knees and other body parts when you fall.
If you really want to step down to improve performance in surf then you will need to get a little uncomfortable fir a few sessions. That said, some people really have stability issues an that's why the wider boards exsist.
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Big Guys
I gotta say the South County 9Ft will work great if you need more stability try the Turtle
Don't be afraid of width unless you are SUP'ing Pipeline or something like that
JimK
www.extremewindsurfing.com (http://www.extremewindsurfing.com)
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The South County 9er is a fun board stable and rips. That and the South County Dragon are two of my favorite boards. My friends like the 9ers a lot. Good in slop, glass , ankle high or head high.
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Man if a 210 liter 32 wide board does not provide enough stability or float for a 210 lb man then I am not sure what board will. I am not trying to be a jackass, but you have a positive flotation of a factor of 2 which is IMO too much for good surfing.
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Man if a 210 liter 32 wide board does not provide enough stability or float for a 210 lb man then I am not sure what board will. I am not trying to be a jackass, but you have a positive flotation of a factor of 2 which is IMO too much for good surfing.
that's what i thought, too. but if you search around a bit, you'll find a few comments where folks say the Naish Mana 9'5", listed at volume of 190 ltrs, is actually more like 160 ltrs. if that's true, i'd say the Mana 10' is more like 180 ltrs than 210. also, what makes a board truly stable? volume and width are certainly factors, but clearly there's more to the engineering of stability than those 2 numbers alone. it seems that 2 boards with those exact same values can have greatly different degrees of stability.
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that's what i thought, too. but if you search around a bit, you'll find a few comments where folks say the Naish Mana 9'5", listed at volume of 190 ltrs, is actually more like 160 ltrs. if that's true, i'd say the Mana 10' is more like 180 ltrs than 210. also, what makes a board truly stable? volume and width are certainly factors, but clearly there's more to the engineering of stability than those 2 numbers alone. it seems that 2 boards with those exact same values can have greatly different degrees of stability.
Sure I don't disagree that there are many factors, and I am sorry if my comment came off as arrogant. But if you look at the mana shape, wide board, wide outline, low rocker, and a wide squash tail it has more of the "stable board factors" on its side than most other boards.
So, and again, I do not mean to be arrogant, but maybe consider looking at how your stance is? At 210 you should be quite able to paddle the 9'5'' even in quite bumpy conditions. Most people I see that have balance problems on big board, often have a too wide stance. Often they are also often positioned too far back on the board with a paddle stroke that is not very confident.
I do not mean to assume that you have making these mistakes, but it might be an idea to check out those factors too since it could potentially save you some frustration when surfing. So my point still stand that even if the mana would be 160 liters it should float you fine. Btw. it is definitely around the given volume from what I have seen. It is a huge board.
As a context for why I am saying this about the 10 mana. I've ridden the 9'5' and 9'0'' mana.
I used a 7'9'' mana when I was 215-210 lb. I am 190 lbnow (trying to take off another 10 lb) and use 7'8'' hokua. I am by no means a very good surfer. :-)
In anycase, good luck with the board chase. I love that part of SUPing too :-)
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i'm a beginner, so i don't take any constructive criticism as arrogant. i always thought a wider stance was a more balanced stance, but maybe not. i'll try a narrower position. and i never fell off the Mana, even while chasing waves...but i just wasn't very comfortable either. it was a rental and i spent an hour or so on it, not days.
maybe i should stick to kiting, eh tautologies?
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i'm a beginner, so i don't take any constructive criticism as arrogant. i always thought a wider stance was a more balanced stance, but maybe not. i'll try a narrower position.
I have sucky balance and all I can say is you'll get better with more water time and working on your technique. I find the following to be helpful:
1. Look farther out (toward the horizon) - never look down.
2. Keep that paddle in the water at all times - use it to help maintain your balance.
3. Play around with where to stand on the board until you find that sweet spot
4. Try pointing you toes in or out and see if that makes a difference
5. Put your dominant foot a little forward - don't stand parallel (play around with how much)
Finally the best trick I stumbled on was to buy an 8'6"x29"x4.25" used board for my 210-215 lb arse. I kept trying to make it work even in crazy choppy conditions (I fell a lot!). After doing that for 6-8 weeks I conceded defeat, sold it, and bought a larger board (the Coreban Fusion). The Fusion was much easier then!
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Beached,
I'm 6'2", 235 lbs. I surf in NE Florida.
I've ridden many of the boards mentioned in this thread. I rented a Mana 10' and the same day tried the South County 9er (side by side). Found the 9er to be more stable. I also rented the NSP 11'6" (for 3 days), that's the first board I could be stable on.
I honestly think the Wide Point and 10' Mana are very similar in stability. I can't speak for how they compare on waves as I wasn't able to catch a wave on the Mana when I had it.
I bought the 9er and also picked up a 10'5" Wide Point. Under knee-thigh high, the Wide Point is my pick. I glides better for catching waves. It also tracks better than the 9er. 2 days ago when it was small I paddled 2 miles up the beach (and back), catching waves whenever a bigger (knee high) set rolled in. It's a much better board for distance paddling (though I'm working on improving my stroke for the 9er).
Today, it was waist high and I started w/ the Wide Point. It was really choppy and the Wide Point wore me out quick. I caught some waves and had a good time. Then I took the 9er out. Much more stable and on the waves it moved really good rail to rail. Much better surfing than the Wide Point for me.
From the NSP, you'll probably be happy with either board. To me, the 9er is more stable and surfs better in thigh high and up.
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i'm a beginner, so i don't take any constructive criticism as arrogant. i always thought a wider stance was a more balanced stance, but maybe not. i'll try a narrower position. and i never fell off the Mana, even while chasing waves...but i just wasn't very comfortable either. it was a rental and i spent an hour or so on it, not days.
maybe i should stick to kiting, eh tautologies?
NOOOO DON'T stick to kiting.
Kiting is fun when there is wind. SUP is fun when there is less wind. Both are awesome in waves :-)
If your stance is too wide, you get too much leverage to push the rail of the board in, I think it tends to make you exaggerate the movements. My feet are less than shoulder width apart when I paddle. This helps a lot in windy and bumpy conditions. Apart from that the list of tips above is really nice. Btw. this is stuff that even advanced paddlers have to revisit every now and then.
In any case, it just takes time and the smaller board you get the more fun it is to surf, but also a little harder to paddle. Whatever board you get challenge yourself...it is like learning a new trick in kiting. ;-)
Are you on Oahu?
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I'm 6-4, 270 with crappy balance from having only 1/2 of my vestibular system left. Before I started I was occasionally falling down while walking, was dizzy most of the time and often couldn't drive. When I started on a 12-6 x 30 Starboard cruiser I couldn't stay upright for more than a minute or two. 10 months later I paddled it 28 miles across Cape Cod Bay in the 1st CCBC. If I can do this almost anyone can, certainly anyone with normal balance can.
Boards that feel a little unstable to you at the beginning will feel very solid with a couple of weeks of paddling. If you want hard core stability the South County's have always been focused on stability for big guys. I can go out on my 9' South County even when its crazy choppy, windy and sloppy. It's all about time on the water. These days I even occasionally surf my wifes 9-8 x 30 element....it's underwater until I get on a wave.... ;D
All anyone here can do is tell you of their own experience, you need to demo a lot of boards and find something that feels right to you. If necessary take a lesson and get critiqued on what you're doing by someone who knows what their doing.
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All anyone here can do is tell you of their own experience, you need to demo a lot of boards and find something that feels right to you. If necessary take a lesson and get critiqued on what you're doing by someone who knows what their doing.
Sage advice.
I surf a So Co Turtle and stability is no issue at all. I'll keep it till one of us dies. Other boards worth a look at are (in alphabetical order by mfg.):
Blair - custom...when you know what you want.
Coreban EZ 34 (they make nice boards)
Eko Thumb, Helu, Ego, and If you're adventurous Goblin
French 9-6 Universal
Imagine Eco Chopper (9-10 x 33)
Naish Mana
Riviera 10'6 and Nugg
South County Turtle, Dragon, 9 footer and Chunky
Starboard Wide Point and Hero
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My opinion is the simplest, just go to the next size NSP, the 11' X 31", it's the board I surf and I'm 6'5" 220#, it's the same rocker and outline you are used to just a tad smaller but it still has the super thick rails that make NSP's so stable.
You could probably trade with somebody.
I like the relatively flat rocker on these boards, it forces you to learn to get back quickly so you don't pearl dive.