Standup Zone Forum
Stand Up Paddle => Gear Talk => Topic started by: alap on March 26, 2011, 05:28:23 PM
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was at MEC the other day, there are five or 6 boards, few useless eleven footers (Laird, Jimmy Stycks) and two real gems: Bark 12'4" and Bark Dominator 14'. Never saw Bark alive. its amazing... piece of art really... made me think...
they also have paddles, from 60$ to 300$. two kialoa models. what surprised me with Kialoa (and not in a good way) is a handle. Just a plain tee, no ergonomics.
MEC is canadian analog to REI. yesterday got their catalog... and the boards are there too... but not Bark.
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One sales rep for all Surf Tech and Kialoa stuff - "sold out" to MEC in Canada.
The staff have no clue about anything to do with stand up.
Shame to see good brands end up this way.
Most independent shops have cut orders or dropped all together.
(me being one who dropped the stuff completely).
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@easy, just wondering why you dropped the stuff - surftech + kialoa or just one of the two?) I was at MEC yesterday and saw the collection of sup boards as well. Indeed, am not sure why they bought the board I saw.
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I dropped both because I found out about MEC and Atmosphere (a cheesy mall outdoor store) being opened with Surftech stuff about 2 months after I had placed my booking orders last fall.
These stores being opened in my city added 6 more doors selling the product that were not dealers when I place my orders.
That and it was myself that found out about them being opened - it did not come from the company or the sales rep and I will not support those who do not support me.
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Warren, I feel your pain. We've been carrying Surftech for a couple of years at the shop I work at and we just found out that MEC was going to be carrying almost the exact same line as we have (although we don't do the Bark boards). This seems to be a disturbing trend among suppliers now - rather than allow the smaller shops to retain their exclusivity, they sell to as many dealers as they can.
If it's the same sales rep for Alberta as it is for BC, I'm not surprised that he didn't let you know. We have a hell of a time getting ANY kind of dealer support from Surftech . . .
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Same sales rep.
Sad part is I have personally known this rep for 20+ years.
As recent as the summer of 2009 - said rep was anti sup.
He was in town that summer and I invited him to a demo at a lake 15 minutes from town and I got the "I don't sup, I surf bro" reply.
Oh well, the other lines I deal with (Starboard / Naish / Coreban / Riviera / 404 / Hobie / Rogue / Jimmy Lewis / C4) were more than happy to sell me some extra product.
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I've been hearing the same thing about Surftech trying to flood the market with boards. Luckily the brands I carry RogueSUP, Jimmy Lewis and Coreban aren't like that.
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Makes me want to sell my board. I'm curious, I've known a couple of bike shop owners and a friend who almost opened a shop. They all talked about a certain radius from their shop that would prevent dealer overlap. Anything like that up in Canada?
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Yes - ALL of the SUP brands I carry (not Surf Tech any more) as well as all of the other sports brands I sell (snowboard / skateboard / sunglasses / shoes / etc) all have and honor distribution agreements.
If they are ever going to open another dealer in the area it is discussed months before "booking season" even starts.
Not 2 months after pre season orders have been handed in.
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2011 is really working you over! At least you have the mall pool. Keep the faith, bro.
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Wait... Doesn't surf tech make and distribute Rusty SUP's ... Much like the surf tech rep, Rusty, or his Rusty clothing line owner, or was it his chauffeur Charlie, is totally anti-SUP... And advocates their murder... But it is just satire I think... And if anyone was offended Charlie apologized, but thinks that you are too thin skinned ...
Surftech's ethical practices continue!
Warren, keep standing up!
Surftech's loss is hopefully their competitors' gain.
Tim
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^^ Yup - I get great support from my other SUP lines.
Declan and Svein at Starboard
Charlie at Naish
Ian at Rogue
Jim and Lizze at Quickblade
Mike and Brandon at Riviera & 404
Mark at Hobie
Lee at Jimmy Lewis
Deano at C4
Steve and Linus at Coreban
ALL are Stand Up People. (the other SUP) ;D
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hi Warren,
i loved your line about "i will not support those who do not support me. great attitude. i wish i lived a little closer to try out your indoor pool/wave sessions. i have met Lee from Jimmy Lewis. way to represent the independent dealers.
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meant to say Lee from Jimmy Lewis is a great guy to deal with. look forward to seeing some pic's from the indoor wave pool.
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Wait... Doesn't surf tech make and distribute Rusty SUP's ... Much like the surf tech rep, Rusty, or his Rusty clothing line owner, or was it his chauffeur Charlie, is totally anti-SUP... And advocates their murder... But it is just satire I think... And if anyone was offended Charlie apologized, but thinks that you are too thin skinned ...
Surftech's ethical practices continue!
Warren, keep standing up!
Surftech's loss is hopefully their competitors' gain.
Tim
I saw that ad too...
Surftech doesn't make rusty SUPs, Boardworks does. http://www.boardworkssup.com/boards/rusty.php (http://www.boardworkssup.com/boards/rusty.php)
Kinda of an interesting perspective that they took there with that campaign...
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Wow! You are right... it was Boardworks... my very, very bad... I will do a full Jim Tressell and ban myself from posting for an entire day.
Seriously bad form to bag on a company... and bag on the wrong company... in my defense... wait, there is no defense...
Sorry dudes.
Tim
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Since Tim has apologized . . .
I have been informed that the decision to sell Surf Tech and Kialoa to MEC and Atmosphere were not fully those of the sales rep.
I have also been informed that my use of the words "cheesy mall outdoor store" were not appreciated (I honestly don't know how else to describe them - that and at the Calgary Outdoor Adventure and Travel Show this past weekend - which I had a booth at - said mall store also had a booth and had big "SALE" signs on their SurfTech boards [that they received less than a month ago])
I have also been informed that the use of the phrase "sold out" was not appreciated.
For all of my indiscretions - I apologize.
The fact that I placed a booking order - and then later discovered on my own that multiple doors had been opened in my city and that I then cancelled my orders - is correct.
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Easy Rider--those sound like awfully small indiscretions, especially compared to what they did.
Since Surftech didn't tell you about the other retailers they added, there's a good chance they didn't tell the others about each other, either. So you may not be the only one they made unhappy.
In any event, you have a great lineup of other boards to take their place.
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Greetings to a great community...
I have been following the forums on this site for some time now and have been thoroughly entertained/learned a bunch, however I have never posted anything until this topic appeared...
I manage a shop myself that sells the same boards that MEC/Atmosphere are now selling, and as with Easy Rider we had them beforehand. I have to say it really sucks as a small business who gets on board (no pun intended) with a supplier in good faith and helps to lay the groundwork before something explodes from a trend to 'the new thing' to have to sit and watch the big guys roll in and eat our lunch.
I don't think anyone needs an economics lesson to understand buying power and undercutting, but already this is what's happening in our situation. As is far too often the case, the dollar signs in some people's eyes really do blind them to how they conduct themselves, and they will stop at nothing to get their slice of the pie.
I weep for the time when individuals did business with a handshake because their word was their bond and it really meant something...but maybe that is just too naive for our time. Truly unfortunate.
I will now head out for a paddle to change the vibe...
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Makes me want to sell my board. I'm curious, I've known a couple of bike shop owners and a friend who almost opened a shop. They all talked about a certain radius from their shop that would prevent dealer overlap. Anything like that up in Canada?
There was some problems a few years back with MEC selling bike parts from brands like North Face and Shimano. The problem being there was several bike shops within a very close radius to MEC in Calgary and the independent shop owners were not happy, and this resonated across Canada. Most shops have a significant mark up with MEC selling parts for much cheaper, so bike shops were not impressed to say the least. The last time I checked, Race Face wasn't selling much, if any parts through MEC anymore, but shimano and other part companies can still be bought there. MEC has also started their own line of bikes and I'm not sure how this will impact independent retailers. Time will tell.
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It was after my first Hawaii Kai run at the Battle of the Paddle Hawaii, talking story in the parking lot, and I think that it was Gerry Lopez that said “what we are all experiencing in the world of SUP right now was just like the surf industry was in the beginning, everyone was stoked, it did not matter what shaper, how long the board was or where you surfed, the spirit of Ohana (family) was alive !” I couldn’t have agreed more until yesterday when I caught wind of this thread…..must we indulge in such banter?
Forgoing a lengthy rebuttal in defense of some “ill truths”, the fact of the matter is that Surftech cannot be compared to any other SUP company. Surftech is a brand and a technology that has been embraced by the most respected shapers in the world. An “A” list of talent that includes the likes of Gerry Lopez, Al Merrick and Joe Bark to name just a few. It is our obligation, and we are expected by these shapers, to offer their designs constructed in our technology to meet the demands of the consumer. Demands that are met through all respected distribution channels, independent and corporate alike. Surftech is proud to share floor space with the top brands in all categories with all of our retailers.
Out of all of Surftech’s accounts from coast to coast, two chose to cancel the brand as the result of our distribution choices. Those that remain will continue to benefit from our improved customer service, advances in technology, new shapes from the world’s top shapers and the victories of Surftech’s athletes in all disciplines of the sport!
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And so the dealers that had been supporting Surftech from day one are out of luck now that MEC has stepped in? Doesn't seem right, IMHO . . .
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I guess the question that I would have is... was it Gerry Lopez, Al Merrick, or Joe Bark that approved selling the exact same product to a major chain within the sales area of an independent dealer who has been supporting SUP with his dollars and cents (and tireless personal promotion) from day one?
Would Al have sold Channel Islands boards (the exact same models) to REI and The Sports Authority at the expense of his independent dealer network... or would he have created a different brand, at a lower price point... (maybe Anacapa??) to sell through the chains (or through Global Surf Industries... ) that can survive with lower margins?
I think we know what Al would do...
I am not an independent retailer... I am just a dude who supports them... and appreciates them... especially the guys that took mortgages out on their houses, or borrowed money from friends and family to chase their dreams.
Seems to me that Surftech might have done their indies wrong on this one...
With indy retailers struggling mightily to survive these days... this just does not seem too cool to me.
Yes, only two retailers have dropped you so far... time will tell... we will see how the orders roll in from those sitting on the fence...
Yes, Surftech, you get market penetration... but don't you also get a little bit of brand devaluation?
Obviously your company and your call.
You mass market boardmakers are making it tough on us consumers... support the Boardworks SUP killer advocates (NEVER EVER EVER), or support Surftech, the folks who may have done their indies wrong (???)...
Good luck,
Tim
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It was after my first Hawaii Kai run at the Battle of the Paddle Hawaii, talking story in the parking lot, and I think that it was Gerry Lopez that said “what we are all experiencing in the world of SUP right now was just like the surf industry was in the beginning, everyone was stoked, it did not matter what shaper, how long the board was or where you surfed, the spirit of Ohana (family) was alive !” I couldn’t have agreed more until yesterday when I caught wind of this thread…..must we indulge in such banter?
Forgoing a lengthy rebuttal in defense of some “ill truths”, the fact of the matter is that Surftech cannot be compared to any other SUP company. Surftech is a brand and a technology that has been embraced by the most respected shapers in the world. An “A” list of talent that includes the likes of Gerry Lopez, Al Merrick and Joe Bark to name just a few. It is our obligation, and we are expected by these shapers, to offer their designs constructed in our technology to meet the demands of the consumer. Demands that are met through all respected distribution channels, independent and corporate alike. Surftech is proud to share floor space with the top brands in all categories with all of our retailers.
Out of all of Surftech’s accounts from coast to coast, two chose to cancel the brand as the result of our distribution choices. Those that remain will continue to benefit from our improved customer service, advances in technology, new shapes from the world’s top shapers and the victories of Surftech’s athletes in all disciplines of the sport!
SUP REP: Who are you? I'm assuming you're the Surftech rep, but usually when anyone is speaking for a company here, they state that. We all know who Easy Rider is--his screen name is his store name.
Isn't it a bit melodramatic to view this thread as the end of the "spirit of Ohana" for the sport?
Isn't it a bit egocentric to say that Surftech "cannot be compared to any other SUP company"? There are lots of great companies selling products by great shapers, paddle makers, etc.
And I don't see any need for a lengthy rebuttal. Basically, Easy Rider complained that after he placed his order, he found out that Surftech had added several other retailer locations in his area, and he found out himself, rather than being told by Surftech. If that's not true, you can rebut it in one sentence. If it is true, it's lousy behaviour. And where's the "Ohana" in that?
So, did Surftech behave as Easy Rider said, or not?
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SUP REP--while we're awaiting your response, I want to second what is obvious to others here but not to you. When a company screws the dealers that helped make it a success (and choosing to sell its products through new, large nearby retailers without telling the original dealers--especially after they've placed orders--certainly qualifies as screwing them) it causes harm far beyond harm to the original dealers.
For one thing, it makes it that much harder for small retailers--the ones that grow sports--to exist. And for those that do exist, it gives them a very good reason to never take a chance promoting anything new. Why bother with all the initial risk and effort, while the big retailers stand on the sidelines and wait to cash in? When Surftech was small, it wasn't MEC or REI that was taking the risks or making the effort to sell Bark or Lopez designs.
And if the idea is to get boards out to as many people as possible, surely Surftech supports companies that knock off Surftech boards and sell them at Costco for half the price. After all, doesn't that get the same designs out to a much broader market?
When Costco issues PR statements for justifying why it feels that it is legitimate for them to sell knock-offs, or to bypass companies' regular distribution systems by selling gray market products, Costco's statements sound almost exactly like your response.
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PDXmike, sounds like you're pretty mad...
Have you personally been wronged?
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If you do not have an exclusive agreement with the manufacturer or distributor, why would you expect to be able to control a competitors access to those products?
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The reps definitely should have contacted the existing dealers to let them know that they would need to open more accounts in the area. With the hopes that the existing dealer base would perhaps step up their orders to prevent the need to open more dealers.
I used to own a core surfshop in California and was a sales rep (territory - California, Nevada, Arizona & Hawaii) for many years and understand the sensitivity of such decisions. However I found that my dealers who had been in business for a while and had solid customer service, marketing and product knowledge did very well despite competing against chain stores. In many cases my chain accounts would send biz to my core shops when they didn't have what a particular customer needed... This obviously doesn't excuse the rep for not warning the dealers prior to expanding the distribution in the area. He/she should have! But it is definitely not all doom and gloom for the local core shops either!
The shop that I owned competed against mall stores and we did just fine. If I dropped all of the brands (Volcom, Quik, Billabong, Burton, Vans...) that kids could buy in the mall, it would've been disastrous for my business. I developed a very loyal customer base that wanted to buy their surf related items from us... All of those brands did very well for us regardless of the fact that they were being sold in several mall stores nearby.
Sorry for blabbering on, just my thoughts as a former shop owner and sales rep. I'm going surfing now;)
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Easy Rider, melonhead, Jefferson: this situation sucks. Dealers like you gave Surftech the reputation it has today and they’ve exploited it to make a few bucks.
But, looking at it from a different perspective, this could be a good thing for the regular joe-on-the-street consumer. A move like this gets high quality boards into their hands for less money. In the 70’s and 80’s, Huffy pushed out quality some bicycles. They were all built by other manufactures and rebranded, of course (7-11’s were built by Serotta). Huffy saw massive expansion of their brand and flooded the market. Consumers greatly benefitted from these move; today, anybody can go to their local Walmart and pick up a couple of Huffys for pocket change. Yeah, their brand suffered quite a bit, but they still get a lot of trickle down technology improvements that make them lighter and better performing for those that are ok with being late to the game.
Honestly, if this is the direction that Surftech wants to take, let them. Focus on the boutique, edge of the market brands. You will always have customers who value the service and knowledge that only a small shop can offer, and the manufactures who value performance over profit. Sure, not everyone is like that, but I ride a Serotta and have never owned a Huffy.
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Kona, I could not agree more.
Take a look at how REI handles their Naish sales. Only the CA stores actually have a Naish inventory. On the east coast, in order to buy a Naish board at REI you would have to order it.
In the long run, a well run knowledable specialty shop will smoke MEC. Just make sure their sales people know who you are and as Kona suggested, they may be your best sales leads.
By the way ehrawn, great Huffy/Serotta analogy!
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While I appreciate and prefer a local shop, at least where I am, there isn't much option. I bought my surftech from REI combining a couple different sales and discounts. If it weren't for that, I couldn't have afforded a board. Our local REI is at least trying to be active in the community and seems like a good place- not a typical big box type store.
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yo EasyRider, if Surftech wants to sell out to places like MEC, oh well....let them become the "Walmart brand".
Here in the Peg MEC is selling surftech and Jimmy Styks. I don't like MEC much to start with and surftech and jimmystyks are not going to bring me into the store. I always check your stock(at EasyRider) and prices first because you have experience, a name and a face.
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hate to break it to you Easy... but closed distribution is not in the CORporate vocabulary and probably has been dead for at least 15 years or more
not the first or last brand with this business model in your area
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To all . . . (Kona / ehrawn / bean / paddlejones) it is not the fact that they opened up distribution to many more doors in my city, nor is it the fact that they decided to go into big box retailers . . . I have had both of these situations happen to me countless times.
It is the fact that they did the above, MONTHS AFTER my booking order had been placed AND that they NEVER TOLD ME ABOUT IT.
Neither of these has ever happened to me in my 25 years of retailing.
Those are the reasons I felt the lack of support and chose to no longer do business with them.
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You have every right to be pissed, but I sincerely hope you do what's right for your business in the long run.
Before you cut ties with any major suppliers, it may be interesting to to see if the local MEC even has anyone qualified selling SUP's.
As you are a more specialized shop, you will have the advantage of being able to stay a step or two ahead of MEC in emerging technology. As you know, people are not always willing to pay for the latest tchnology, but it does tend to bring them inside.
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I don't know squat about retail, and I'm kind of happy about that, but I know a lot about PR smarminess, and I gotta say, Sup Reps post made me gag. "there I was, talking story with Gerry, or was it Laird...." Bleeeech. I fart in your general direction.
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Apparently, you bring out the worst in SUP Reps and in turn they bring out the best in you ;D... we smell you all the way to the east coast!
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Becoming a boutique shop, I'm guessing, is exactly what EasyRider does NOT want to become. He wants to sell the best brands, brands he believes in and can recommend without reservation, with knowledge and expert consideration towards his customers. A "boutique shop" sells marginal fluff.
When big brands move from the small, expertly staffed local shop to big box stores, they are cheapening their product. The only reason people want those boards in the first place is because the small shop experts, the guys and girls who spend real time on the water, on lots of different boards in all conditions, and are always listening to what people want, need, and expect laid the ground work. When the small stores stop selling the products, the brand suffers, because there are no more experts.
The most challenging aspect of opening a shop (Grand Opening in 2 days!!! :D) has been cultivating relationships with brands and their reps. I think all a person can do is be honest and enthusiastic, and when you are met with dishonesty or unhelpfulness, move on. As with anything in life, money and its promise will sour relationships and turn friends into enemies. Keep the Aloha alive, forget it and move on.
PS. as for the Gerry Lopez name drop, Surftech by no means has an exclusive with Gerry. I've got 2 beautiful GL boards in the shop right now, from Riviera.
raf
owner of Soposup, New England's 1st dedicated SUP shop
www.soposup.com (http://www.soposup.com)
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Ok, I'm feeling a little guilty for not being constructive. I just hate seeing dumb attempts at PR. This is the age of skepticism. NOBODY buys bullshit, we all have highly tuned bullshit detectors. Here's how you do it REP. It's called truth:
I know seeing Surftech boards in major retailers is galling to the local shops that built this business, but all retailers that sell our brands understand that we are in a highly competitive market. If the only brands at major retailers are Chinese knockoffs, how does that help anyone? We need to compete everywhere the customers buy. If REI or MEC says to you "we want to sell your product in all our retail stores throughout North America, what would you say? No?
I'm sorry you didn't get a direct notification that more stores in your area are selling our boards. If you've ever dealt with the central purchasing departments of these big retailers you'd know we don't have that much visibility into where they rollout and how they time it. And they don't give us a lot of latitude in how we announce things. They hold their cards close to their chests.
I honestly wish things were not like this, but my first loyalty is to our company and our employees. If we're going to stay in business and compete successfully, we have to do what we can to get in front of the customer. I make a special effort to take care of our local dealers, way out of proportion to their sales. I know what we owe you.
How's that? Seems a little better than pretending to care about the ohana.
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Ok, I'm feeling a little guilty for not being constructive. I just hate seeing dumb attempts at PR. This is the age of skepticism. NOBODY buys bullshit, we all have highly tuned bullshit detectors. Here's how you do it REP. It's called truth:
I know seeing Surftech boards in major retailers is galling to the local shops that built this business, but all retailers that sell our brands understand that we are in a highly competitive market. If the only brands at major retailers are Chinese knockoffs, how does that help anyone? We need to compete everywhere the customers buy. If REI or MEC says to you "we want to sell your product in all our retail stores throughout North America, what would you say? No?
I'm sorry you didn't get a direct notification that more stores in your area are selling our boards. If you've ever dealt with the central purchasing departments of these big retailers you'd know we don't have that much visibility into where they rollout and how they time it. And they don't give us a lot of latitude in how we announce things. They hold their cards close to their chests.
I honestly wish things were not like this, but my first loyalty is to our company and our employees. If we're going to stay in business and compete successfully, we have to do what we can to get in front of the customer. I make a special effort to take care of our local dealers, way out of proportion to their sales. I know what we owe you.
How's that? Seems a little better than pretending to care about the ohana.
Much better, but you forgot to remind SUP REP that the last step is to put your name, position and company name at the bottom, rather than doing it as an unsigned, anonymous post on an internet forum.
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PonoBill, I love your response!
Perhaps that info is the exact type of thing that would be helpful to Rep.
I feel badly for EasyRider that he ran into a difficult situation, and it sounds legitimate that he took the actions that he did. In fairness, all he has done is state his point and say he was bummed, and all the other noise started to turn this thread into another internet hate-fest. I respect the aspect of this community that is self-regulating, as I have seen some forums that just cuss IN CAPITALS all day long and it gets old.
So again, PonoBill, good on ya for making a constructive remark.
Stating a case, pointing out problems, and recommending solutions is a mature way to handle issues. True, we just need to vent sometimes, but a key part in making sure the issue doesn't occur again is moving forward, and that sometimes takes an objective viewpoint.
From talking to different companies at demos and stuff, I haven't ever gotten the impression that Surftech, Starboard, Naish, or any other major reputable company is actually out to intentionally HURT the seller or consumer. Maybe they don't know the best way to RELATE to them, but I can't even imagine the struggles a manufacturer must run into everyday. There is no way they are trying to intentionally anger the people keeping the lights on.
Especially the companies that have been doing it for so long already, not just jumping on the bandwagon in the last year or two cuz the sport is blowing up. I'm pretty sure Surftech has been building boards since the early 90's, same with Starboard and Naish (these are some of the big ones in my mind). It's probably a similar story for many of the solid brands. They develop technology, harness great shapers and move the sport forward, and for that, I'm stoked.
When I'm trying to figure out how legit a brand is, I often ask the person riding the board, who is your shaper? Newbies and lame brands don't usually know how to answer that question.
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PDXmike, sounds like you're pretty mad...
Have you personally been wronged?
sbsup--no, I'm not mad. And I haven't been directly wronged. But I have been directly affected positively in two ways recently by Easy Rider. First, because he took on the effort of bringing Dave Kalama to Canada and organizing his clinic, I was able to sign up for a clinic with Dave in Seattle the day before. Without Easy Rider, Dave wouldn't be in Seattle, and there'd be no clinic for me and a bunch of others on this forum to attend.
Second, Easy Rider is a sponsor of this site. If you want an example of "Ohana" in SUP, this site is a great one. People from all around the world can talk about SUP here. I am grateful to the site sponsors, especially the several who actively participate in it, like Easy Rider.
So, I didn't like SUP REP's implication that Easy Rider was wrecking the "Ohana" of the sport by making his complaint. First of all, it's ironic, since the forum SUP REP used exists in part because of Easy Rider. Second, it was a legitimate complaint. Third, SUP REP never directly addressed the complaint--he just made the ohana remarks and said how great Surftech is.
But most important to me, when a retailer places an order, they do it based on how many boards they think they can sell. If the manufacturer increases the dealers in the area without telling the retailer until after the order (or never, in this case) it can have an instant negative impact, because suddenly the guy who ordered the boards is in competition with several more retailers for the same customers. That cuts into income, and in Easy Rider's case, he's using his income to--like I said--help bring us this forum, and to bring Dave Kalama here for the clinics.
So those, along with what I wrote earlier, are the reasons I think Easy Rider's complaint was legitimate, and SUP REP's response was poor.
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"So, did Surftech behave as Easy Rider said, or not?"
pdxmike,
If SUP REP is anything like Surftech's customer service, you'll be waiting a long time for a reply . . .
I'm sorry you didn't get a direct notification that more stores in your area are selling our boards. If you've ever dealt with the central purchasing departments of these big retailers you'd know we don't have that much visibility into where they rollout and how they time it. And they don't give us a lot of latitude in how we announce things. They hold their cards close to their chests.
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Bill, the store I work at competes directly with MEC for many products (not just SUPs) and anytime we go to a showing, the reps tell us EXACTLY what MEC is going to carry so we can buy accordingly. There is approximately zero percent chance that SUP REP didn't know what boards MEC was going to carry months in advance.
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I'm not very familiar with how the retail relationship works, but in that relationship do you tell each manufacturer when you are going to stock their competitors product?
Would you call Starboard and tell them you are going to stock Naish, or Surftech if you are bringing in Jimmy Lewis?
Isn't that similar to them not informing you that they are opening a new location? It just seems reasonable that if the core shop wants visibility from the manufacturer to inform them of new locations, shouldn't the shop inform the manufacturer of competing product?
Obviously I don't have a business degree, and might have it all wrong. I find this thread fascinating...
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The assumption is that the shop carries competing brands. Reps are welcome and should visit the shops for whom they are a liaison. The writing will quite literally be on the wall in that case.
Competition between brands within a single shop can be a good thing. It gives brand A an opportunity to differentiate itself from brand B and C. It becomes a problem when A,B and C all bring pretty much the same thing to the table.
Opening a new account with a new store near one that already carries your product won't increase the product sales very much. The first store should already be tapped into the market. All it really does is decrease the profit margins on that product in that area because now 2 stores are competing for the same market pool. This hurts both stores, but will hurt a local shop much more than a chain that can sustain lower margins.
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sbsup11 - - to answer your question - No.
I do not inform my suppliers / vendors of all of the products I am carrying.
It does not really effect them.
It is their job to provide products and service to me.
Generally the better the service and product the more of it I will order from them. (note the order in which I typed that last sentence)
That said - all of the good sales reps that I have know exactly what competing brands I sell, and most of them could make a very educated guess as to how much of other companies products I sell - - just from visiting my shop.
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Interesting...
Thanks for sharing the knowledge and experience guys! Much appreciated.
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Melon. I didn't say it was REALLY true, I was just making all that up. I have no idea. It's PR truth. My point is that Social media has dramatically changed PR and advertising. People who don't understand that and still try to do it the old schmooze and smooth way make idiots of themselves and represent their company poorly.
When you do what REP did a whole bunch of mean buggers like me run in and public-ally yank your pants down to expose your shortcomings.
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Oh I understood what you were getting at Bill - ol' SUP REP's post made me gag too - reminded me of the Rusty "apology".
I just wrote that last bit to show the power that MEC has in the Canadian market. They're a "heavy hitter", and what they buy directly influences what other stores buy. As MEC is a co-op they can have lower margins and undercut independent retailers on price without having to answer to shareholders. Makes it really important for the little guys to know what MEC is carrying so that we don't have to compete with them directly. Our suppliers know this, and (most of them) try to accomodate that. . .
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Don't forget that by MEC being a "co-op" they also pay WAY less taxes than a "normal" business.
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that is a facsinating reading.
however since i am not a seller, but a buyer (i.e. not a delaer but a consumer) my original post was from the very different vantage point.
on another hand, I don't understand why there is so much fuss - the eleven foot long boards, 17 kilo... its a prehistoric age. that was my first board 4 years ago and in hindsight it was not working for me, I just bought it because there was nothing else (in one session on my 9'8" i did more progress than during the whole summer on this 11'). I mean those surftech boards are complete garbage, IMHO, too long for the surf (at the beach brake at least, and there are no point breaks in Canada) and too short for the distance, and twice as heavy as Bark... yes, they also have JimmySticks, same size... if you guys were ordering this stuff from surftech for your boutique shops, one can only wonder why?
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Melon. I didn't say it was REALLY true, I was just making all that up. I have no idea. It's PR truth. My point is that Social media has dramatically changed PR and advertising. People who don't understand that and still try to do it the old schmooze and smooth way make idiots of themselves and represent their company poorly.
When you do what REP did a whole bunch of mean buggers like me run in and public-ally yank your pants down to expose your shortcomings.
Conversely to this instance, there have been several times recently here where companies have responded well to complaints, and they come out looking great. Nobody expects products or service to be perfect. People hope that companies will respond well to complaints, but they're prepared to be disappointed. So when the company comes through, the customer is often thrilled--at least I am. Other people notice, too, either directly or from being told about it from the original customer.
I remember that being true of Starboard a while ago, but there have been several others, too. Those good responses mean much more to me than reading a company praise itself in an ad, and certainly more than in a post like SUP REP's.
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Exactly--you tell the truth, or some close relative of it, and you answer the questions, stay on point. You don't try to bullshit people or deflect criticism.
No moral judgement, it's what works now. In the old days when people who were willing to pay for advertising had the only real voice you could get away with interruptions, self-serving rambles and bullshit. Now everyone gets to speak and you can't get away with that stuff.
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Don't forget that by MEC being a "co-op" they also pay WAY less taxes than a "normal" business.
I'm not clear on how a "co-op" pays less tax than a "normal" business. Wouldn't the income from the co-op pass through to the owners and in-turn, wouldn't they pay tax at a personal level?
In any event I would expect that their strength would come mainly from volume purchase discounts, lower admin cost (as percentage of sales) and other business synergies.
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From their own web site. (scroll down a bit)
http://www.mec.ca/Main/content_text.jsp?FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302887394 (http://www.mec.ca/Main/content_text.jsp?FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302887394)
They "return" dividends to their members so that they show no profit at year end and therefore pay no corporate taxes.
What their web site doesn't show is that they pay their board a large bonus at the end of each year so that the member "dividends" are very small.
While it is good to "give back" to your customers - it is also good for the general economy for business to pay corporate taxes.
I choose to "give back" by things like events / Kalama Klinics / SUP races / indoor surf sessions / etc.
I am heading to the mountains today to run my 24th annual snowboard contest.
I will loose about $3000. hosting the event (same entry fee as 24 years ago)- - but I get 300+ competitors - give away $50,000+ worth of draw prizes - and have an absolute blast riding with my friends / customers.
And I pay taxes.
just sayin'
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For tax purposes, it sometimes makes sense to bonus-out profits to limit tax at the corporate level and let the profits get taxed at the individual level. My concern is that to say a co-op does not pay taxes is simply missleading.
With respect to marketing costs, on a personal note, I find it mostly enjoyable, mostly tax deductible and more often than not fruitful.
I do like what I see of your business model and I hope you have a great snowboarding event!
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^^^ My comment was that they pay less tax than a "non co-op" business model - - not that they pay no taxes.
Anyway - - sure wish it would melt here so we could paddle something other than our shopping mall! :D
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I was just at LL Bean in Bedford, MA, and they have 4 Bic SUP's and paddles in their kayak area.
Good price for a beginner board, but no one in there knows anything about the sport.
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At Novaboy, re: ^^^ were the BIC boards the gray ACS boards?, or the newer Yellow ones?
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Easyrider, down here, in NJ, we are expecting 6-12 inches of slush over the next 36 hours. But this time of the year, at least we can still choose to head up to the mountans (although some areas are already closed) or slip into the 41 degree surf . Not too shabby...
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Bean had the grey ACS boards. Nice to see them into it. It's the perfect board to get beginners into the sport.
Sorry to hijack the MEC thread.
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I had a very similar situation last year with another brand of SUPs . A kayak store about 200 yards from my shop started carrying the same high end brand as we have carried for years.
The Rep never told or asked us about opening the kayak shop. I went and talked to the Kayak shop and they did not know that I was a dealer of the same product either. The SUP company said they need to grow their brand in my area . The thing that made me pissed is the lack of communication between me and the rep and the rep and the kayak shop. Luckily that rep doesn't work there anymore. I have some outstanding reps and I will try purchase goods from them first, just like buying from a friend. We communicate well and ask question about competitors products and it helps to try see the whole picture from both sides.
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I mean those surftech boards are complete garbage, IMHO, too long for the surf (at the beach brake at least, and there are no point breaks in Canada) and too short for the distance, and twice as heavy as Bark?
I know of at least 2 point breaks in Canada!
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Nonsense. Everyone knows Canada is all bays, just one bay after another, without a single point between them. Its weird, but true.
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We can have point breaks / lefts / rights / what ever we want - indoors too! ;D
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Ya the surf here on the east coast of Canada sucks, those pictures of perfect point breaks in Nova Scotia are all fake. Don't bother coming up here, stay in the States, plus the water is real cold and the frequent polar bears in the line up, make it way too dangerous. LOL