Standup Zone Forum

Hey all,

I've been nursing a back injury for the past 6 years.  The good news is the injury is what turned me on to surfing standup (can't prone anymore).

Scans show a bulge in the L5/S1 joint that might be touching the root nerve. The doctors I've seen (including a neurosurgeon a few years ago) have recommended conservative treatments.  Well, I've tried everything over the past 6 years (and I mean everything) and no luck.  Symptoms are actually getting a little worse (more pain down the glutes and legs).  I'm starting to really wonder if a microdisectomy is in order to free up the nerves. 

Because it's nothing deemed urgent, it'll take me a good 6-8 months to see another neurosurgeon up here in Canada.  I'm starting to think about heading to the US and pay to see someone who really specializes in the back and spine.  I'm just wondering if any of you have any good recommendations for a surgeon or surgical center I could reach out to (especially in WA, OR or CA.....anywhere good too)?

I went to the Hospital for Special Surgery in NYC, and its supposedly the best hospital in the nation for orthopedic surgery. My discectomy went perfectly. I needed two incisions, as I had a section of my l4/l5 disc that had popped off and was stuck where the nerve goes out giving me had unbearable pain down one leg. After the surgery, I could walk without that pain immediately (although there was tons of pain due to the surgery), and it didn't take me long to get back to normal with a lot of PT. I picked up paddleboarding after the base recovery from this surgery, as my back was still stiff, and I thought it would be a fun way to get a core workout. Caught a few waves, and I got hooked. It was 4 years ago, and I don't have any sciatic pain at all and am in the best shape I've been since college (I'm 50).

ps., I did a lot of PT and injections before the surgery, but once I got to the HSS, they ordered a more complete MRI than my previous doctor, and said that because of where the disc had popped out, the PT probably wouldn't help, and recommended that I see a surgeon.

I know you say you have tried everything.  One of the world's leading back guys is from Canada, Stuart McGill.  He has a great book called the back mechanic along with videos that go with it.  Would only take a week to read it and watch the accompanying video's.  One of his patient's wrote his own book about the his recovery with Dr Mcgill. A powerlifter named Brian Carroll.  Brian had a broken back and multiple disc problems and still set powerlifting records after.

https://www.amazon.com/Mechanic-VIDEO-ENHANCED-VERSION-Stuart-McGill/dp/097350188X/ref=pd_sbs_14_t_1/144-0265771-6897369?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=097350188X&pd_rd_r=f84813f9-10e5-4f6a-94f3-16fbf4439b08&pd_rd_w=5ZA9b&pd_rd_wg=vr9pN&pf_rd_p=5cfcfe89-300f-47d2-b1ad-a4e27203a02a&pf_rd_r=77CQMN1ZASZVV77QKJ9D&psc=1&refRID=77CQMN1ZASZVV77QKJ9D

https://www.amazon.com/Injury-Stuart-McGill-Brian-Carroll/dp/0973501863/ref=pd_bxgy_14_img_3/144-0265771-6897369?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=0973501863&pd_rd_r=b2bedd23-7e5b-428c-aee8-458bdaa597c4&pd_rd_w=YifV4&pd_rd_wg=T6XRS&pf_rd_p=09627863-9889-4290-b90a-5e9f86682449&pf_rd_r=19DECSK3FHT5BGS1WS8R&psc=1&refRID=19DECSK3FHT5BGS1WS8R


I know everyone's backs are different as well as everyone's injuries.  Don't know what your injury is, but reading these couldn't hurt prior to doing anything.  Neurosurgeon have one way of fixing something and orthopedic surgeons have another.

ninja... Great resource. Thanks.  I'll pick up his book.

supsean... I've heard good things about HSS. Thanks for your story.

I know you said you've tried everything...
Dr. Eric Goodman's Foundation training has helped me.  He has a lot of youtube videos.  His latest book is here:
https://www.amazon.com/True-Form-Foundation-Training-Sustained/dp/0062315315/ref=pd_bxgy_14_img_3/136-3224519-1652128?
Another book that has helped me was Ming Chew.  His book not only has stretches, but has ideas about supplements and hydration.  His latest book is available here:
https://www.amazon.com/Permanent-Pain-Cure-Breakthrough-Muscle/dp/0071627138/ref=sr_1_1?
I wish you the best of luck.  My back just acted up after a session, wondering if it was from my waist harness.

Quote from: sflinux on November 29, 2019, 12:09:13 PM
...
Dr. Eric Goodman's Foundation training has helped me.
...

I LOVE Foundation Training.  I've been doing it for a couple of years. 

Being in pain sucks, hope you find relief soon.

In my twenties I had a bulging disk and was in pain for almost 2 years.   My dad had recently had disc surgery and I talked to his surgeon who advise me to not have any surgery and wait it out.

I have yet to meet anyone with back pain who isn't super stressed.  Some people don't even know they are stressed, but take a look at their circumstances and they are getting divorced or have financial problems or similar.

John Sarno's Healing Back Pain was the turning point for me.

I wrote about my experience here:
https://clayisland.com/relief-from-and-healing-back-pain/

Clay, glad you found a path to controlling your pain. Pain does dictate your life. In my mid to late 20's I was suffering from severe back and leg pain. My Sciatica was pinched and the pain dictated every minute of my life for almost 3 years. I learned how to sleep and keep my right leg moving. My wife and I had just started dating and she thought it was the weirdest thing. You cope. Ibuprofen then Acetaminophen and back every four hours for years. For me, staying upright and moving was my only relief. I could not sit or lay down. I'm 6'7 and 220 lbs now, but back then I weighed 175 lbs. I don't remember what started it, but I noticed everything that was aggravating it. Road bike, windsurfing, surfing and running were all no go.

I first went to an orthro and x-rays. Nothing obvious other than an unusually straight spine. No curve either way in my back. They put me in PT at the hospital. It kept getting worse. I didn't have insurance so all the money I made went into fixing my back. I was framing houses and doing foundations at the time. I always felt better while I was working. Sometimes I'd have too many tools and nails in my work bags and that pressure would cause a flare up at work. I could manage that, but once I got in my truck to go home the pain would kick in. Sometimes I had to pull off the road and just walk around to give my self a break from the pain.

The next thing I tried was the Chiropractor. The adjustment and their PT. Six more months of getting tighter and tighter with zero improvement. When the nerves are sending out pain signals 24/7, the body just starts locking up. I had a fullsize F-250 and I could barely get into my truck. The only way I could travel long distances was to lay down in someones camper shell or Van. I couldn't drive more than 20 minutes without being almost in tears. Speaking of tears, that was every night as the non-prescription pain meds wore off and I had to get out of bed. Putting my heel down on the floor hurt more than any of the bone breaks I'd had. In fact my hands and feet were numb most of the time.

The next thing was Acupuncture. That was the first treatment that actually got right onto the nerve and short circuited the pulses of pain. It replaced it with a electric wave form. This was a major turning point for me. The Acupuncturist was very smart and from China. She said my pelvis is being pulled down by my tight hamstrings which was causing the Sciatic nerve to be pinched right at the L5/S1. When I work the muscles loosen up and the pelvis would move back into position. As soon as I quit working the muscles would tighten up and the waves of pain would return. She also notice that a had stomach/diet issues. She said this just compounded the problem. I started paying more attention to my diet, and excluded any foods that cause gas pains. Beans, spicy foods and milk. Even though I knew this was a turning point, the Acupuncture did not fix the problem.

My wife kept hounding me about stretching and gave me this big book on stretching. Somewhere in those hundreds of pages and drawings was something for me, but where to start. I don't remember how I came about the stretching routine I started with, but it was the path to a new life for me. I couldn't stretch while I was tight and in pain, so I needed my muscles to be warm before I stretched. I would go for a jog and then hang over and stretch my hamstrings. I couldn't even reach my knees. My wive had been putting on my shoes for the past 2 years. After about a week of jogging and stretching out my hamstrings (hang and count to a hundred), I added the hurdlers stretch. Two weeks into to my routine I could reach my knees. Two more weeks I could reach my shins. I added a calf stretch next.

It was around this time I had the biggest breakthrough, I slept a whole night without any pain meds. I didn't have to fight the tears of putting my heel on the ground. After a few months, I could touch the floor and I was completely pain free. I never thought I would ever be pain free. Certain events would cause the pain to flair up, but I would immediately go for a jog and stretch it out. The pain would be gone within a day. I have stretched every night for the past 30 years because I remember the pain. I also stretch while I'm doing any physical activity. My body is aligned and I maintain that alignment.

As far as back surgery, I would have done it in a heartbeat if a doctor had told me that it was the only way to get pain relief. My disc's were not herniated, but they were being compressed because of my rotated pelvis. My dad had two semi successful back surgeries. His disc's were herniated from college football injuries and it plagued him most of his life.   

SurfAfrica, good luck on your quest for your own solution. Take care brother....

Welcome back surfafrica.

TallDude that was a powerful post. 

Super useful post TallDude. It reminded me that when my hips start aching when I'm foiling it's because I didn't stretch. It's easy to skip spending 15 minutes stretching before starting a session, but I pay for it, every time. Yesterday I did an hour and a half wingfoiling at Kanaha then went looking for Headmount (Boyum) and did three hours at the Harbor. No stretching. I was a wreck all afternoon and finally just laid down and slept the day away. Fifteen minutes cost me hours that I could have been doing something fun.

Dumb.

Africa, hope you find some relief and are able to get back out surfing.

Tall dude very interesting story thanks for posting. I was intrigued that you stretch after activity and Bill stretches before. I am sure that this is old news but my understanding is that the optimal time to stretch is after exercise and activity. I seem to remember some studies years ago that found if you stretch before activity that there is an increased risk of injury. I never stretch before surfing but most often do a warmup by cycling. If motivated I will stretch after surfing but usually just "Savasana".

Cheers,

Bob

All really good advice. I suffer from degenerative disc disease in L4 and L5, and arthritis in L3 and L4. I could barely walk for a year. I went to see specialist after specialist. Physical Therapists treated me like I was 100 and didn't care about my goals for fitness, pain management Drs. wanted to drug me and Surgeons wanted to cut me.  I was hopeless because none of those  seemed like good options for me.

Heres what I've learned and  what I have incorporate from the really good suggestions already given.

Ninja Turtle suggested Stu McGill. He is the foremost expert on the spine. I practice his breathing and bracing (core strengthening) techniques daily. When incorporated regularly you learn to protect your spine and avoid injury. He has a ton of interviews and  Youtube views to get a feel for his work.

Sflinux suggested Eric Goodmans Foundation Training. His  work is where I started and it got me out of pain. He incorporates proper movement patterns, specifically Hip Hinging to unload the spine. He also incorporates anchoring and breathing to lengthen the spine. This produces quick results. I have move passed Foundation Training but I encourage anyone with back pain to give it a go. It was the beginning of my healing and can be done anywhere.

Talldude suggested stretching. I utilize movement patterns from Kelly Starrett and Trevor Bachmeyer daily. Often back pain is the result of tight hamstrings and/or hip flexors. When these muscles tighten/shorten they pull on your spine. Like Talldude this was the main culprit of my pain.

McGill and Goodman both have certified trainers on their websites. Including in Canada. McGill is Canadian. It's at least worth a consult.

I am so glad I persevered. I am not pain free and the arthritis can be quite painful. But I manage my pain without medication and surgery and have not been depilated in 2+ years. I  am moving better at 55 then I was at  35.

Good luck.. Back pain is awful!

Quote from: FRP on November 30, 2019, 02:09:51 PM
Africa, hope you find some relief and are able to get back out surfing.

Tall dude very interesting story thanks for posting. I was intrigued that you stretch after activity and Bill stretches before. I am sure that this is old news but my understanding is that the optimal time to stretch is after exercise and activity. I seem to remember some studies years ago that found if you stretch before activity that there is an increased risk of injury.

I've read the same thing, but I stretch to be able to do the activities I want to do without pain or stiffness when I'm doing it--different goal. I stretched for ten minutes before today's long session wingfoiling. I was out from 10:40 AM to about 2:00 PM with one short break to drink some water and swap out foils. I hit it hard when I'm wingfoiling, I'm trying to learn everything at once and having fun at the same time. I felt fine for the whole session and I feel great now.

Thanks all.

I've been working with this injury for the past 6-7 years.  And over the years, I've tried almost everything--physio, chiro, trigger point injections, laser therapy, massage, steroid injections.  Only active things have had any effect.

The first was SUP.  I joined this forum a year and a half after the injury and was blown away with where SUP shapes were (vs my old 2008 board).  I ordered a SIMS from L41 within days--it changed everything.  It got me back out on the water after thinking I wouldn't surf again and helped me rebuild my core and balance (after almost 2 years of doing almost no activity).

My next big step forward came from discovering Foundation Training a couple of years ago.  It's a solid program. But I still have a long way to go.

Ninja, thanks for the Stuart McGill mention. How have I not heard of him before!?!  I picked up Back Mechanic and read it cover to cover. Everything is backed by science (not pop-culture science, hard science). I really like his approach. I was doing a lot right, but quickly found a few things I need to adjust after just a first read. I'll be doing more with this.

Best of luck with your back and please keep us updated on how you are doing. Also, thanks for posting this and thanks to everyone for all the info.

I had injured my back about 10yrs ago ( L5:S1) and it ended up requiring surgery. It had been bothering me again over the summer and has increasingly gotten worse. Have not been able to surf and had just been thinking about posting on here for advice. I haven't been on here for a few days and when I checked back in you had posted this and pretty much covered it all.

In regards to the microdiscectomy, that is what I had and mine has been fine for years up until now. I reinjured it at work, had to move a lot of heavy stuff and if it were not for that it would probably still be fine from the original repair.

I am going to look up the books, etc that have been recommended here as well.

Heal well and quickly surfafrica!

Thanks TD.... this got my attention:
"She said my pelvis is being pulled down by my tight hamstrings (and mine ARE!)
which was causing the Sciatic nerve to be pinched right at the L5/S1.
When I work the muscles loosen up and the pelvis would move back into position.
As soon as I quit working, the muscles would tighten"


"Strand Lepers" Primal Thread, kicked me into healthy eating.... because the theory behind it is common sense, and it "clicked" with me.
I dropped 85 lbs... life changed forever.

Hopefully this thread will kick me into Stretching!
Something I have always known I need.... but have been simply too lazy.

Quote from: SurfnCJ8 on December 03, 2019, 04:48:52 PM
Best of luck with your back and please keep us updated on how you are doing. Also, thanks for posting this and thanks to everyone for all the info.

I had injured my back about 10yrs ago ( L5:S1) and it ended up requiring surgery. It had been bothering me again over the summer and has increasingly gotten worse. Have not been able to surf and had just been thinking about posting on here for advice. I haven't been on here for a few days and when I checked back in you had posted this and pretty much covered it all.

In regards to the microdiscectomy, that is what I had and mine has been fine for years up until now. I reinjured it at work, had to move a lot of heavy stuff and if it were not for that it would probably still be fine from the original repair.

I am going to look up the books, etc that have been recommended here as well.

CJ8: Sorry to hear about the relapse. I highly recommend those two books by Stuart McGill that Ninja posted: Back Mechanic and Gift of Injury. I'd start with Gift of Injury for the inspiration and some context, and then move to Back Mechanic to dive a bit deeper into his stuff.  I've read both cover to cover and am going to be seeing one of clinicians Dr. McGill trained later this month.  I've been managing my back for the past 7 years and have seen more clinicians than I can count, but Dr. McGill's work gives a new direction--one backed by science and one that makes a lot of sense based on what has and hasn't helped me since the original injury.

One more resource:
https://backincontrol.com/

Dr David Hanscomb knows a thing or two about backs. And his approach is quite different but he is the real deal.

After having a discectomy 4 years ago, I have to say that I feel great. But I do exercise and stretch as part of my regular routine. Something I didn't do enough of before things went south. I also do a lot of balance and core exercises which when combined with paddle surfing really keep my back well defended. I do need to work on my hamstrings and lower back a bit more, as I feel them tightening up.

Overall, I think more activity with proper technique is the best way keep the back pain/sciatica at bay.

SurfAfrica - Didn't mean to hijack your thread and thanks again for the suggestions. Going to check for the books and my PT starts this Wednesday so we will see what happens next.

Some friends and I have been to Costa Rica a few times to surf and have reservations again in early March. Hoping that the PT, etc. can get me to a point that I can SUP/surf without risking further damage and I don't have to cancel the trip.

On a positive note, after discovering SUP and this forum, and seeing videos/photos of you all from here and the wide age range of SUPsurfers with and without back issues..... I am very optimistic that SUP will extend my surfing years beyond what I was expecting to have from just prone surfing. I really enjoy it and here in NC it has increased my wave count considerably by turning a lot of marginal surf days into surprisingly fun sessions.

Hijack away!  If I could, I'd rename this thread "back health"....the more contributors the better.

Oh man....I know what that feels like...."gotta get ready for March".   I feel like every other year I'm in that same boat working on some injury for a March trip!   

I can definitely empathize!  I had a successful microscopic-discectomy during high school performed in New York which addressed a lot of the shooting pain down the leg...etc.  Interestingly, even after surgery and the requisite Physical Therapy, I always felt like I had to baby my back to avoid stiffness, pain...etc.  It wasn't until I discovered Iyengar Yoga, Traditional Chinese Martial Arts and SUP that I never had to worry about my back again.  If you haven't tried Iyengar Yoga, I would highly recommend it--the specific focus on alignment (and use of props so that it is maintained) and the fact that you can check into teacher's specific levels of certifications is gamechanging for people with injuries over other forms of yoga.

 Hey gang, hope all are well starting out the new year!

SurfAfrica - How is the back doing?

Quote from: SurfnCJ8 on January 07, 2020, 06:56:38 AM
SurfAfrica - How is the back doing?

Thanks for asking.  I just started on Stuart McGill's protocol a couple of weeks ago.  I saw one of his trusted guys over here on the west coast.  Looks like I have damage to my L5 (probably disc, bone, and ligaments) and some joint laxity that needs some serious stabilization.  I've started a prescription of core stabilization exercises that I need to do daily for 3-6 months.  Hopefully at some point in that time frame, I'll be ready to progress to some more training (with an eye to get back to biking and surfing).  They stress the importance of consistency (daily, not just a few times per week) and patience--it takes time for the tissues to change.  Fingers crossed.

For you SA, and others who may no longer be 21...  UCSF has some pretty interesting series of videos.  This one on the spine was only short of a decent discussion on stenosis, but gives JoeAvg a pretty clear idea of what happens when they cut you.

https://www.uctv.tv/shows/The-Aging-Spine-Updates-in-Diagnosis-and-Treatment-34793

He proudly says; 'My daughter manages the Plastics unit in SF.'

Jim

I have had chronic pain in my lower back and over the past year 5 years, my doctor finally found what it was about 2 years ago. Facet joints that deteriorated from all the impact from kiting over the years so the nerve gets inflamed and then it bed riddens me for a week. So I've been doing the steroid injection and I get about a year of no pain. Planning to burn the nerve out soon as a permanent fix. So don't rule those out when you go. I had a herniated disc and the facet at the same time so once the disc went down and I still had pain, the doc found the issue.

I'll be honest, I've not read any replies to this thread.

I just want to suggest you look into barefoot/minimalist/zero heel drop shoes.

I broke my L1 vertebrae all the way through in '99 after a 30' rock climbing fall. Back pain for years after. An acquaintance suggested barefoot shoes and in one week of trying, the pain had gone. It's all to do with heel striking pushing the pain straight through the spine or the forefoot acting as a shock absorber.

Have a read up and/or message me about it if you like. See what you think. It might help you. It changed my life.

Here's a (not-so-short) update on my back. 

In December, I dove into the program put together by Dr. Stuart McGill (see posts above). I found a local practitioner, and he's been great. As part of the process, he took a deep dive into my MRIs and had me get a series of X-rays with me bending forward and backwards. He was able to diagnose my issue (after many different doctors, surgeons, chiros, physiotherapists and osteopaths were unable to do so).

I was born with a slight defect in my S1/L5 facet joint of the spine that made them weak and susceptible to trauma (called a pars defect). Eight years ago, I ended up cracking the bones in those joints (see first pic below -- spondylosis). That caused my S1/L5 joint to come out of alignment (see second pic -- spondylolisthesis). It also caused that joint to become quite unstable and ultra sensitive to movement. Somehow, I managed to develop the stabilization muscles in my core enough over the years that I could keep surfing waves on a SUP (prone was out of the question). But something happened in 2019 that caused that joint to become more unstable and more sensitive. It's become way more intrusive than being about to surf or not to surf--it effects my day-to-day in a pretty major way.

As hard as I've tried to stabilize everything by developing my core muscles following McGill's system, I haven't been able to do it. My back is more tender than ever. So I started researching surgical options. In North America, the go-to is spinal fusion. But man, that scares the shit out of me. Fusion is super-invasive and there is no turning back if it doesn't work. And even if it does work, it often causes further problems up the spine over time. So I dug deeper and discovered a procedure they have been doing in Europe for the past 25 years called dynamic stabilization.

The idea with dynamic stabilization is to stabilize the spine with non-rigid materials while preserving the natural structures and movement patterns of the spine. It allows some motion (which helps prevent issues on adjacent joints) but offers motion control, stabilization and some help with load bearing.

Dynamic stabilization is a fairly minimally invasive procedure (small incision, minimal damage to the muscles which will heal, and no damage to any supportive tissue of the spine), is easy to do, and is reversible. If it doesn't work, I can opt to take the next step and get a fusion done later on if that's something I decide to consider. The main recovery point for dynamic stabilization is giving your body the 6 weeks needed for the screws to fully set in the bones--you can walk immediately after the surgery, but you have to be careful about bending and making any uncontrolled movements for those first 6 weeks.

The first version of dynamic stabilization is the Dynesys system by Zimmer: https://www.zimmer.co.uk/medical-professionals/products/spine/dynesys-dynamic-stabilization-system-ous.html

A second version has come out called the ShineShape system by SpineSave. It was co-developed by one of the guys who invented the original Dynesys system: https://spinesave.com/the-solution/

The newer SpineSave system is not yet approved by the FDA (still too new) so isn't available in North America. About 800-900 people in Europe have had the SpineSave procedure done over the past 10 years. So I started contacting neurosurgeons in Europe and heard back from two of them in March. They both took a look at my MRI and X-rays and gave the same diagnosis as my local McGill practitioner--joint instability at S1/L5, congenital spondylosis further worsened by trauma, and minor post-traumatic spondylolisthesis.  And both recommended dynamic stabilization.

So I went ahead and scheduled surgery in Switzerland for mid-April.  But due to the pandemic, that had to be cancelled. So now I'm waiting for the Swiss border to open.  Once it does, I'm going to book myself back in. I'm going to be having a two-level rod inserted--a medium-flex rod between S1/L5 with a step down to a high-flex rod between L5/L4 (like a step rail, really).

After eight years of working on this (and trying almost everything), and a year of getting progressively worse, it's time to take the next step. I'm just happy that there is a step between where I'm at and fusion. This is a new system and a relatively new procedure. I've dug into the research on all this and have decided I'm OK with the risk/reward profile. Call me a guinea pig. I'll make sure to report back on here about how things go.  ...and will hopefully get back to posting important stuff like rail shape, board volume, foot placement, board construction, and searching for the perfect right point break.

Here's a video of the system:

https://vimeo.com/342659222

Happy new year everybody. Was just reading the Zone and remembered this thread so thought I would check in here and see how things are going with all of you other back issue paddlers/surfers. Hope everyone is well.

SurfAfrica, any updates?

Sorry...deleting a duplicate post here.

Hi all,

Well, it's been a while since I've trolled the posts of the Zone--one of my favorite past-times for a few years there.  Just thought I'd send an update. 

Not gonna lie, I've been to hell and back....welllll, I actually wouldn't say I'm quite back yet....but hopefully on my way.

I've been nursing a back injury for close to a decade now--my two lowest joints are basically f-cked (L4-L5-S1). In November 2019, it took a turn for the worse.  In June 2020, I had a back surgery performed that installed some posterior dynamic stabilization rods (see my post above).  I went into that surgery hoping it would stabilize things enough, but knew there was a 50/50 chance I'd need full fusion.  The procedure helped a little, and after 9 months of physiotherapy (by spring of 2021), I was starting to mountain bike again and was thinking about getting back on a SUP (I haven't been on my SUP since September 2019--booooo!).  But things took a turn for the worse in May and I ended up having fusion surgery in July. Then, I had surgery on my right foot in September 2021 to take care of a bone-on-bone joint from when I broke my heel in 2018 (I had subtalar fusion).

So I'm in the middle of a pretty crazy recovery.  I've just started walking again after 7 weeks.  My body is weak--especially my right leg and my core/back.  My right calf, quad and hamstring have fully atrophied.  My glutes do not want to fire. I'm in a lucky position work-wise to be able to take a full year off to focus on rehab and that's what I'm doing.  Besides my family, it's now 100% my focus (so I guess it's 60% my focus?).  I see a physiotherapist and a massage therapist weekly.  I do a prescribed physio routine daily.  I walk and squat in a pool every other day.  Some practitioners keep saying "you'll get there in 3-6 months".  But the ones that I really trust say I'm going to need 12-18 months at least. So who knows how far I'll get, and when I'll get there. It's early stages and walking hurts like crazy.

With so much downtime on my hands this fall, I've been back to editing videos to help keep my mind working. I'm posting quite a few mountain bike videos, but I'm starting to upload some old SUP videos I made a few years ago (mash up clips of rippers like Mo Freitas, Giorgio Gomez, Kieran Grant, Jess Leedy, Kai Lenny, etc). I'll be posting them every other week or so well into January. If you are interested, have a look at https://www.youtube.com/c/IDoBlues/videos

For while, I was making quite a few mash-ups. Two of them were of Zoners:

Creek
https://youtu.be/L_xckyMp5Z4

Pono
https://youtu.be/ESCL8XnMa4g

Anyways, here's to hoping that in 2022, I'll get back in the waves and back on the forum sharing the stoke.

- SA

Tough road you have had. Thanks for giving an update, even if it is not a party.
Sometimes a zoner just disappears and you wonder. You seem like a positive guy and that will be a big help.
Looking forward to the vids.

Good luck and thanks for sharing. Many of us here have been there with a long downward spiral of injury and finding a solution. Take care of the mental part.

Thanks for the update.  I am hoping for the best recovery possible for you.
2020 was my worst year.  I fractured my sacrum which led to sciatica pain.  It took about a year to recover, very nervous that it would never improve along the way.  The two books that helped me were:
https://www.amazon.com/Back-Mechanic-Stuart-McGill-2015-09-30/dp/B01FKSGJYC (https://www.amazon.com/Back-Mechanic-Stuart-McGill-2015-09-30/dp/B01FKSGJYC)
and
https://www.amazon.com/Healing-Back-Pain-Mind-Body-Connection/dp/0446392308 (https://www.amazon.com/Healing-Back-Pain-Mind-Body-Connection/dp/0446392308)
Stuart McGill's book has some self tests.  Any tests that cause pain are movements to be avoided.
John Sarno's book teaches you about how the mind influences pain.  It taught me that thinking or anticipating the pain (missing a pill), would heighten my awareness of the pain.  That book allowed me to get off pain meds cold turkey and have a noticeable improvement in pain level, while at the same time teaching me to ignore the pain.
Somebody said that motion is lotion.  I believe movement helped my recovery, which was very surf sup focused.

Twenty years  ago I blew out L4-L5 and L5-S1 and the MRI showed bulging into the spinal cord with general degenerating disk desease in both disks. Shooting sciatica nerve pain and constant refered pain into my calf and outer right toes. Had to lay flat on my back for two weeks just to be able to barely walk and get to the physical therapist. Saw both an ortho and neuro surgeon and they both wanted to do surgery after I had stabilized with PT. Someone thankfully suggested I see a physiatrist (think of this specialty as a navigator thru the other my-way or the highway physicians). He said that sure you can get surgery, but in 10 years the lines of betterness would cross and you will be worse than if had you just followed a rigorous rehab path. This physiatrist manages serious injuries for the SF Giant football team BTW. So the journey with the physiatrist began: 6 more months of PT till I had plateaued on improvement, then started accupuncture to quench the refered leg pain and that got me to a new level of movement and a new plateau.  After 1 year, I could windsurf flat water and swim again at least with much care, Mt biking no way, running no way. My goal was to get back to normal wavesailing, skiing, surfing, Mt biking and sex. The physiatrist said that inflamation was holding me back at this point and I still had general low back pain and stiffness. Next he suggested massage threatment 2/week and that felt great but basically turned into a 1 day reprieve from pain, similar to what the accupuncture basically did, but the strategy was to manage the inflamation to get to the next plateau. After 2 years he said I was ready for Pilates with a trained PT, note trained PT and pilates person. That started off very slow due to my poor mobilty in lower spine, but wow did I learn how to strengthen my core, stretch key hamstrings for back pain relief, learned how to stand, posture, learned how to sneeze with back issues, side sleeping skiils and overall body health. It did not hurt that all the folks in the Pilates studio were recovering dancers either :-)  Joe Montana used this studio for injury recovery. After 1 year of Pilates 2/week I started wavesailing again but could not really jump due to compression at landing. The Pilates instructor basically said I had a weak core, likely due to the lack of gravity sports in youth thru age 18 (I was swimmer/water polo junkie). So, now we get down to business on core, I buy my own Pilates reformer and I am doing Pilates dailiy at home and  1/week in studio (another 2 years in studio) and guess what I have been doing home pilates  for the last 15 years. I ski, wavesail jump, Mt bike, good sex, run, SUP surf, swim hard... Basically the only think I cant do now is prone surf pop up to standing. My L4-L5 and L5-S1 are bascially auto-fused as the physiatrist calls it. I still have pain when I sit > 1 hrs, so I am a mover pain manager.  Yes, I am lucky to have the financial capability and time to do all that, but hey, I worked 40 sit/stand/walk hrs/week thru it all, got married and had a kid. My heart goes out to all with low back pain out there, it can be overcome and you can live with/thru/past it.

Hellooooo Zoners.  Man, it's been a looong time. I've had 5 surgeries since my last surf in September 2019.  I think I might actually be done with the scalpels.  I thought I'd jump back on the forum here, 'cause in a little over a week, I'm going surfing!  I've been out on some flat water paddles with my small board over the past week, and it's feeling OK.  I know waves will be a different beast, even after just a few paddles, it felt like some of the muscle memory was coming back.

Anyway, here's to hoping it all goes well.  So I can surf, and have something to contribute to this forum (which I've missed).

- SA

For me the most important thing about recovery is having a plan to get back to normal play, and just getting past all the stages of recovery. I think (no proof) that intending to get back to playing the same as you did before the injury is the key to recovery. Basically, I'm saying accept no substitutes other than getting back to full capability doing the things you love. Once you do, the road to complete recovery is fairly straight

Good luck, and enjoy the surfing!!!

Good to hear you are doing good.

Holy Crap SA! What a stoke to hear you are back on board!!!
I hope you have beautiful places to paddle, because that is probably where you will get your best rebuilding done!
Surfing again will be amazing and a giant boost to your soul... I can't imagine a life without it for so long.
You have been through the fire, now it's your turn to get your mojo back!!

Pono is right, there is only one expectation.... and that is to get back at full steam, doing what you love.

Be well, live your best life!
And keep us informed


Yikes... I just watched your new "I Quit" video.
You look solid.... great video!
I'll copy/ paste the comment I left on your vid:

"SA... holy shit! I can't imagine doing that shit after years of back surgeries.
My back hurt just thinking of the crashes I would be rocking up there!

Your return to the lineup should be cake walk... falls are a bit more cushioned"

You are totally ready to get your surf on again!!

and thanks for the mash-up... that look back drives home the point that the wider boards I ride now can snap turns as well as the 29" I was riding in those clips.
Surf on my friend!!!

Thanks everyone! I really appreciate the comments.

Turns out forest fires have put a dent in my comeback plans this weekend.  Roads are all closed. What a season!

....but that just gives me more time to get my SUP legs back!  Current "physio" (body & soul) is to get a mountain bike ride in in the morning, and then a flat water paddle on my 7'4 in the afternoon. This part of physio is way more fun than the previous few years.

So Creek, anymore boat trips into the tropics over the past few years? I still dream about that one you did a while back.

"So Creek, anymore boat trips into the tropics over the past few years? I still dream about that one you did a while back."

Boat:
A hole in the water into which you throw money

so yeah... been on a tropical trip like that:
Bought a house in Florida that was a total rat trap and have been throwing money into it ever since  ;D ;D ;D

Next week I'm going back to Cape Cod and putting SUP surfing into 1st place again. :)

OK, I'm going to give this comeback another try at the end of September.  I broke my wrist mountain biking in July (punishing f-ing sport) which put a damper in it. Cast came off last week and my physiotherapy gave me the thumbs up to try some SUP wave action at the end of the month if I stay diligent on my exercises. 

My stretch goal is to get back into enough form this fall/winter so I can make a tropical surf trip at some point in 2024. Maybe El Salvador? I love me some right point breaks.   

you pulled me out of my lair
best of luck to you, SA

Quote from: surfafrica on September 14, 2023, 05:22:01 PM
My stretch goal is to get back into enough form this fall/winter so I can make a tropical surf trip at some point in 2024. Maybe El Salvador? I love me some right point breaks.

If you want to go to a place to surf a longboard or a sup; Pavones, Costa Rica is a good place in Central America if you like real l-o-n-g rides. Check out the video below. Watch it in 1080p HD in full screen mode.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=265WpjV9pTc

Hi SA... geeze dude, you know how to set yourself down!!
Honestly, I love SUP surfing so much, I won't risk it doing my more hazardous pastimes anymore.
In my 40's I walked away from skateboarding after nearly smashing my head open.

When my knee got weak I let go of lifelong skiing because I was a bump skier and don't have an off button... so I did a full stop.
One day on the slopes was not a good trade for decades of surfing.

Are some awesome sessions on the mountain bike worth a life of pain and worse, being permanently benched???

I mean, I get that... I will never voluntarily leave surfing for any reason, but I know my odds are better falling on soft water.

Be well my friend and get wet!!!

Always good hearing from you Creek.

My big dilemma is my nearest surf break is 6 hours (and $200 in ferries) away.  I can be mountain biking on the world's best trails in 10 minutes.

....but I hear you. I'm changing my mindset on the trails moving forward. I'm 50, not 18.

BUT, I surfed this weekend! ...on my 7'6.  And minus some rust on getting from my knees to my feet, it felt like I never left. On wave it felt natural (and great!).

I'm starting to think about a trip to El Salvador (tips welcome!).

That's awesome SA!
Very glad to hear you slipped right back into form  :)

Chasing waves isn't a bad gig!

Getting old makes it tougher to bounce back from injuries, but I think as long as my aim is to get back to doing things I love, I'll keep doing crazy shit until I just can't. I still ride my mountain bike, and a fat tire e-bike I built, but other than surf and wing foiling my biggest passion is dirt bikes. I live in the places people come to do this stuff, I can be on dirt at the beginning of what must be thousands of miles of amazing riding and hugely varied terrain, from maintained fire roads and logging roads to two-hundred-year-old wagon tracks that have never seen a grader. And of course, there's the Gorge right outside my door, the Oregon coast 70 miles away, and Maui for half the year.

This summer I had some heart issues and was caregiver-in-chief for Diane, who had both knees replaced. I missed the last half of the summer for wingfoiling but doubled down on dirt riding. No serious injuries--I'm armored like I'm going to war. I've been riding and racing motorcycles for 60+ years. I doubt I'll stop until I stop breathing.

I don't have any advice for back surgery since that's about the only thing I haven't fucked up, but I think the secret to recovery from any injury is to double whatever PT you're supposed to do, and always expect to make it back to doing what you love. A great motivator when the PT feels like torture.

Pono, I'm actually looking at what the moto guys are doing and am armoring up for the mtb trails with gear they use.

Even more than doubling down on physio, I'm paying huge attention to this latest Medicine 3.0 movement. I recommend everyone read Outlive by Peter Attia. And bonus points to listen to podcasts by Attia, Andrew Huberman, Brad Stanfield and Rhonda Patrick (all on Youtube and other main podcast sources).

Here are some things I've added to my general daily routine these days:
- cold plunge (4 minutes, 7 degrees C)
- 30 minute zone 2 cardio (the odd zone 5 interval day)
- 45 minute strength/balance/physio training
- sauna (15 minutes, 90 degrees C)
- more protein (+ creatine & collagen)
- getting on statins (even though I'm still under the old school threshold of LDL levels)
- I'd add more things I'm up to, but it starts to get into the weeds