After riding his 12'6'' x 24'' x 5.5'' for 2 years we have decided to upgrade Jeremy's equipment. I am going to attempt to document the building of this board. Please go easy on me though as it is a learning process for me.
I do have some knowledgable people in my corner. I have hooked up with Mark Nelson and Mike ''STORM'' Sherman at the Nelson Factory. Between them they have alot of experience with sandwiching, vacuum laminations, and hi-tech materials. www.nelsonfactory.com Mark has recently added a CNC machine capable if doing up to 16'.
First we scanned and digitized the 12'6''. We then extendede it to 14' x 24'' x 5.5''. We left the bottom shape, rails, and rocker alone except for dropping the nose rocker .25'', and pulled the nose and tail. We now have a tail 9'' at 12'' up as apposed to a 10.25'' tail on the 12'6''.
After cutting the blank I sliced a center line and laminated a carbon fibre stringer. This is mainly to hold it in the CNC machine while it is being cut. At 1 lb. the blank is flimsy enough that the cutter head will bend it as it is cutting.Also it will come in handy when vacuum laminating as we will be able to get by without a rocker stick, not to mention the added stiffness in the final product.
We then cut it with success. I'll update more as it progresses.....
When you extended a boards length and keep the rocker the same, are you extending the plane of the rocker, or are you using the same total number, actually lowering the profile of it. Make sense? When I copied the windsurf rocker, I extended the plane, giving a total rocker of 1/2" more over the greater distance of my SUP. What's the right way to do this, if trying to copy a board?
I'd love to know what numbers are working so well out there. I'm going to lam my next one this weekend. I hot wired at 2 1/2", but can adjust on the laminating stands if I change my mind between now and then.
Sam Pa'e was kind enough to send me his number, so I have one good number I know works. It's slightly more than I have shaped now.
That's what the world needs, a way to make Jeremy faster.
Pretty slick looking board buddy. I don't doubt it will rock. I'd ask you why you decided to narrow the tail, but I figure you'd say something like "it feels right". I assume it's really for keeping the board under control in bigger swells.
It looks like the stringer bends a bit a those points where the clamp is held during lamination. I'm not sure if it affects anything, but maybe some sort of 1" board held lengthwise between the clamps and the blank would avoid that... ?
Cool shots, thanks!
I cheated and used A CNC machine. Dwight your right. You should adjust the rocker when you extend a boards length.
Yes the stringer line is not straight, as it does not have to be. It was caused by using a hotwire and they have a tendancy to drift a bit.
Quote from: PonoBill on March 25, 2009, 12:52:48 PM
I'd ask you why you decided to narrow the tail, but I figure you'd say something like "it feels right".
I can tell you why I'm going the opposite way. My tail was narrow and I fell when running toward the tail. I'm going wider on my next one.
There is something about a being pushed from behind by wind and waves that makes me fall like a drunk.
Quote from: DW on March 25, 2009, 03:31:47 PM
Quote from: PonoBill on March 25, 2009, 12:52:48 PM
I'd ask you why you decided to narrow the tail, but I figure you'd say something like "it feels right".
I can tell you why I'm going the opposite way. My tail was narrow and I fell when running toward the tail. I'm going wider on my next one.
There is something about a being pushed from behind by wind and waves that makes me fall like a drunk.
Me too. Most of the time when I fall off my board on a Maliko run it's off the back.
Quote from: DW on March 25, 2009, 03:31:47 PM
Quote from: PonoBill on March 25, 2009, 12:52:48 PM
I'd ask you why you decided to narrow the tail, but I figure you'd say something like "it feels right".
I can tell you why I'm going the opposite way. My tail was narrow and I fell when running toward the tail. I'm going wider on my next one.
There is something about a being pushed from behind by wind and waves that makes me fall like a drunk.
Hey DW,
Is the board occasionally squirting forward when it catches a steeper swell, setting your weight unexpectedly back?
Quote from: Admin on March 26, 2009, 07:33:50 AM
Hey DW,
Is the board occasionally squirting forward when it catches a steeper swell, setting your weight unexpectedly back?
No.
I just felt unstable when on the back.
Aloha Dwight,
If it's OK........can I throw in my 2cent.
Quote from: DW on March 25, 2009, 03:31:47 PM
I can tell you why I'm going the opposite way. My tail was narrow and I fell when running toward the tail. I'm going wider on my next one.
There is something about a being pushed from behind by wind and waves that makes me fall like a drunk.
If you pull your tail in this will cause for faster release off the tail, but the bad thing is you'll "lose stability" due to "less volume" on the back half of the board.
However if you have a bit "more volume" at the tail..........then you have bit "more stability". Now if your as good as Jeremy Riggs (which has incredible balance, I must say) then a 24" board with a pulled in tail will be freakin fast!
I'll usually follow this rule, If I have a "fat a$$", then I'll will need a board with a "fat tail"...... ;D ;D
In most cases 2cent is really not worth anything..........but I hope this is worth something... :)
Aloha.....Sam
Quote from: Sam Pa'e on March 26, 2009, 08:39:33 AM
However if you have a bit "more volume" at the tail..........then you have bit "more stability". Now if your as good as Jeremy Riggs (which has incredible balance, I must say) then a 24" board with a pulled in tail will be freakin fast!
I'll usually follow this rule, If I have a "fat a$$", then I'll will need a board with a "fat tail"...... ;D ;D
HHHmmmmm.....so really bad balance AND a fat a$$= U.S.S. Kitty Hawk for Bob for downwinders... ;D
Which makes my experience on Randy's board all that much more surprising. I know he had Bill make it a little wider in the tail for stability but thats a relative thing. It's still a narrow board or at least I thought it was for someone like me. I was shocked how comfortable I was on it. Must be just some Foote magic in there. I would love to be able to pull the trigger on its twin. Need to figure out a way.
So the deck was glassed yesterday by Mike"STORM" Sherman. First we put a 48'' long thin bamboo laminate down in the foot area where the board will take the most pounding. Then covered the whole deck with 4 oz. S. Glass. Next we did 5.6 carbon rail bands and a 5.6 carbon strip down the center. All laminating was done on a table. Next a sheet of plastic went down to keep everything smooth, a thin sheet of rayon cloth for a bleeder to get suction distributed evenly. The whole mix was then put into a bag and sucked down to 7 ATM. Bottom lam today....
Bill, this is awesome! Cannot wait to see the finished product. Its cool that you are showing the process the entire way through. Very impressive CNC machine. ;D ;D
Pulled it out of the bag and with bottom lam came in at a little over 13 lbs. Heres a few more shots.. This is Storm grinding the lap and prepping for bottom lam. Check out the stilt shoes... Classic Storm creation....
Thanks for posting these pics Bill. Wish I could be up there with you during the whole process. Can't wait to take it out for a run. It looks sweet and fast. Love the shot of the stilt shoes!
Wow...can't believe how sharp that looks. The contrast between the shop...rough wood construction tables...stuff all over the walls...and then the board looks like something from the Lockheed Skunkworks or maybe even Area 51...where's the little green men?
Holy moly. That's one wicked ride.
C'mon Bill, post up the rest of those pics. This is all I've got today.
it great to see how this board is being built, very interesting.
i would like to ask about the bamboo laminate that went on the deck. being very intersted in bamboo use in surfcrafts, i'm curious about it's various applications. here it's obviously to strengthen a certain area. why bamboo ? is it stronger and/or lighter than another material ? could it be used more extensively, say to cover the whole deck ?
This is a bamboo venier.. It is very thin, strong and relatively light. We used it in a section of board that will be getting pounded the hardest while paddleing. It could be used on the whole deck of the board but is not cost efficient, very expensive...
Very nice.. Thanks for the pics... More please.. ;D
DJ
Be back on Monday......Storm plays with the kids on weekends...
I tell you what when Jeremy gets his new board watch out cause he will be leaving alot of bigger boards in the dust or I should say wake. Here are some pics of Jeremy today on his old 12'6 Foote arriving ahead of the field of much larger boards. First board in period any size.... :o :o :o :o :o :o
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc43/byronmaui/SANY0018-2.jpg)
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc43/byronmaui/SANY0019-3.jpg)
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc43/byronmaui/SANY0020-3.jpg)
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc43/byronmaui/SANY0021.jpg)
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc43/byronmaui/SANY0022-3.jpg)
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc43/byronmaui/SANY0025-5.jpg)
those pictures that Jeremy is paddling in, look like they would call for an 18'+ displacement rocket. certainly not for a 12'6 "waterpusher". how is he going so fast, on that, especially in those conditions ?
Quote from: noa on March 29, 2009, 12:40:58 AM
those pictures that Jeremy is paddling in, look like they would call for an 18'+ displacement rocket. certainly not for a 12'6 "waterpusher". how is he going so fast, on that, especially in those conditions ?
Not sure what his time was, but the near shore action was sloppy choppy at the ending point of the race. I believe J was getting mostly downwind action -- I'm not sure, as I couldn't see him after 10 minutes in.
Quote from: SchUP on March 29, 2009, 01:28:09 AM
Quote from: noa on March 29, 2009, 12:40:58 AM
those pictures that Jeremy is paddling in, look like they would call for an 18'+ displacement rocket. certainly not for a 12'6 "waterpusher". how is he going so fast, on that, especially in those conditions ?
Not sure what his time was, but the near shore action was sloppy choppy at the ending point of the race. I believe J was getting mostly downwind action -- I'm not sure, as I couldn't see him after 10 minutes in.
It's the alien anti-gravity device Jeremy brought with him when his home planet blew up in a celestial cataclysm.... ;)
Jeremy has been leaving longer boards in his wake for a long time. ;)
Look at the past Maliko results.. he been faster than most of the unlimited guys.
All the more amazing is the fact that his board 24" wide. :o
If anyone has ever tried to paddle that narrow of a board in smoking downwind conditions can appreciate his skill and balance.
I've tried it...very fast...but not easy.
I've been paddling with Jeremy a long time now...
Not that surprised that he won overall. ;)
Way to go Jeremy!! ;D
Randy
Thanks Byron for the posting the pics of the finish. In the beginning of the race Alan and I were head to head. About 4 miles into the race the wind had stopped and I was getting really hot. We saw Jack on the outside starting to gain on us. It seemed like the wind was better outside so I headed out. Once I was near Jack there was a nice cool breeze against my back. On this particular day the outside line was the best route. If I had stayed inside Alan and I would have battled it out to the end.
Anyone interested in trying out my board can do so at any time.
Space alien, simple as that.
Hi Jeremy,
is that board really 24" wide ? how do you manage on that width for downwinders ? where you brought up in a circus ?
in all seriousness, do you do any special balance training, do you geneticly have amazing balance or have you just gotten used to the narrow width by spending time on the board ? really curious about this.
in theory, if you can manage a downwinder on something 24" wide, you could use 23" or even less in flat water.
Hi Noa,
Yes, the board is 24" wide. I weigh 155# which may help with the balance part, but I don't do any special training per say. I surf a 25" wide SUP, which also helps for balancing. I can't say that I am genetically wired for balance, because before surfing my favorite sport was basketball. Other downwinder riders have tried my board and have been surprised with how stable it is. Once going downwind it's like riding a wave, which you can do on an even narrower board. On a normal Maliko run, most of the run is riding swells. It is tricky heading out of Maliko due to the side chop, so this is where practice on the board is beneficial. I think you're right about being able to go narrower on a flat water board.
Now that I have a 4 month old, my circus days are over :-)
Quote from: J.Riggs on March 30, 2009, 05:31:19 PM
Now that I have a 4 month old, my circus days are over :-)
No....the circus has just begun...trust me... ;)
Hi Jeremy,
thanks for your interesting reply as always. on you average Maliko run, how much % would you say you're actually surfing bumps vs trying to catch them ? could you tell me the average in say 15-20 ish knots wind and the average in 25-30 knots ? thanks...
BF...the Maliko14 sticker (decal) will be ready for proofing later today.
Progress on the Maliko 14 is moving along. Should be done and ready for Jeremy to test in a few days..It is sanded and ready for paint. After th sanding stage it weighed in at 19.36 lbs. With nothing more than a mist of white paint It should come in around 20 lbs. We are already discussing ways of trimming some weight. Finished photos comming
Quote from: noa on April 01, 2009, 12:05:39 AM
Hi Jeremy,
thanks for your interesting reply as always. on you average Maliko run, how much % would you say you're actually surfing bumps vs trying to catch them ? could you tell me the average in say 15-20 ish knots wind and the average in 25-30 knots ? thanks...
Hi Noa,
In my opinion, the Maliko Run is based on two components; wind speed and wind direction. While wind speed will make your run faster, the right wind direction can make the bumps easier to catch. I think that I surf at least 60-70% of the run, more on really good days. While I'm surfing I am paddling to catch the next glide. I can't make a call on the average in different wind speeds, my brain hasn't had enough coffee yet this morning.
Quote from: surfpainter on April 01, 2009, 05:07:18 AM
BF...the Maliko14 sticker (decal) will be ready for proofing later today.
Quote from: surfpainter on April 01, 2009, 05:07:18 AM
BF...the Maliko14 sticker (decal) will be ready for proofing later today.
Hey Rick,
I can't wait to see the decal. Glad to have you on board, pun intended....
Hi Jeremy,
surfing 60-70% is a lot ! i'm wondering, does paddling when surfing a bump not slow you down ? is that not the time when you actually don't paddle ?
Noa,
It's all about timing the strokes when you are on a glide. Sometimes you can catch the bump in front of the one you are riding if you read the wave correctly, but this takes some paddling.
BTW: I picked up the new Maliko 14 this afternoon and hope to get it in the water tomorrow. Pics are on the way...
I stopped by Bill's and saw it on my way home. Yikes, that's a mean looking scooter.
Jeremy, is the use of wax instead of a pad, a weight issue for you or do you just like the feel of wax? I assume you wax only the area in which you walk the board.
Jeremy's new Maliko 14 is done and ready to go in the water this afternoon. Picked it up last evening and could tell he wanted to go right then for the test run. Kinda late so todays the day.. So far on his 12'6'' his average top speed on the Maliko run is 8.6 MPH. Shooting for a perfect 10 MPH...The board weighed in finished at 19.63 lbs. without fin...
Looks great.. :)
DJ
That shape reminds me of that sleek CGI spaceship from the Flight of the Navigator.
Very sleek.
"The Boss" has outdone himself this time!
Quote from: SchUP on April 03, 2009, 12:18:31 PM
That shape reminds me of that sleek CGI spaceship from the Flight of the Navigator.
Very sleek.
Funny...that thought occured to me when I saw Randy's 14...I was afraid to mention it though because of the geek factor.... ;D.
Definitely sleek....nice work Bill. I'm going to hijack a couple of these pics for the post I put up on my blog.
I guess Bill would be the ship robot and Jeremy would be david... ;)
http://www.youtube.com/v/umTO9gMJgcw&hl
First of all I have to give a big thanks to Bill and the guys up at Mark Nelson's shop for building this great board. I took the board out today for her maiden voyage with Bolt Upright. The conditions weren't the best, but I needed to hit the water. The board made the conditions seem a lot better than they were. I can't wait to get this board out in better conditions.
Rick, I like the feel of the wax as opposed to a pad. I do keep weight in mind for my downwind boards, so I guess that's two strikes against a pad.
wow Jeremy !!! she looks fast ! beautifull lines, very impressive. you'll be able to absolutely smoke on her.
i also really like how simple this board is. no pad, no rudder, nothing. just the essence, pure and clean.
do you prefer a fixed fin instead of a rudder ? what do you do when the wind angle is not that great or when you need to paddle with the wind to your side (like when entering the harbour) ?
enjoy and keep us updated on how she goes.
Just looking at the pics again.. did anyone notice how Jeremy could tuck that 14' board under his arm?
Yea...this thing is fast.
Paddled it from harbor mouth to the beach...left Jeremy in the dust. ;)
Our downwind run Fri evening was.. I would say poor to very poor conditions.
Very little wind and hard to get into glides...at least for me.
Jeremy seemed to have no trouble getting glides...and paddled away smartly!!
Then just to rub it in, he would sit a wait for me to catch up, while he had a cigarette and read the paper. Good thing he had a full pack...
Even with the sub par conditions he was still in the 8.3 MPH avg range!!! ::)
I can't do that in the best conditions >:(
He will be the man to beat in this class...no doubt.
Suspect that he will be besting most unlimited paddlers also. ;)
A perfect 10...(10 MPH Avg) is very doable I think...And that is smoking fast!!!
Congratulations to Bill (Footemaui) and the gang at Mark Nelson's Shop!! ;)
Stay tuned...
Randy
You shoulda gone earlier guys. We had good wind all the way to the harbor but when shuttled got back to Maliko it was flat. I know, I know--work. It seems the wind is dying fast these afternoons. Maybe it's time for some glassy evening Kanaha
What is this term glassy?? It's been blowin the fleas off the dogs here on Maui lately....
Jeremy was kind enough to let me try his new Maliko 14 out today. Whoa! This thing is uberfast. Even with 8 falls, I had my fastest run to date. On mine, I'm going to add an inch of width and a deck pad (Jeremy uses wax and not much of it at that) to minimize the wipeout factor. For me, the added weight is worth fewer falls. Jeremy, of course, has this board dialed so he can go ultra narrow wax only and stay dry. Randy's is next up and already has the deck on. Bill and the Nelson guys have figured out a way to do them even a little lighter. Should be finished for next weekend. This is getting good!
Hi Chan,
i'm starting to wonder something which is actualy none of my business (but curiosity got the best of me).
how many downwind boards do you and Randy have ??? it seams like you're getting new ones every few months ?
well i guess you're certainly contributing to the development.
since you have a few of Mark's boards, how would you compare them to Bill's ? they both seam to make very fast boards for the Maliko run, but also quite different. which style suits you best ?
last but not least, from what i hear, you have the ballance of a cat. how is it you fall on Jeremy's board yet he's fairly comfortable on it ? does he swallow helium before a run to make him float above the board ?
Quote from: Chan on April 04, 2009, 06:02:55 PM
Bill and the Nelson guys have figured out a way to do them even a little lighter.
Bill,
Can you give me a few tips. I just laminated my wife's board. Sanding coat is next, but I've been wondering why I need to do a sanding coat at all on the deck? A little weave texture doesn't hurt, I don't think? Maybe spackle the weave, then paint?
My board seems super light prior to doing the sanding coat. The sanding coats adds so much weight. I wish I could get the epoxy to flow like water, super thin. No luck so far.
Hi Noa,
That's a good question! There is a shortage of in-demand race boards on the islands, as they can only be made so quickly. We have sold down to just the core few. Right now Rand only has his Bill Foote 14 (and he rarely gets to ride it). He has had a C4, a F-16 and a F-17 which are all now with new owners. I sold my C4 a while back, just sold my 14 SIC, so I am down to one as well. It is actually really fortunate that the market is so good like this, as it allows us to try out great gear without too much drain on the old bank account. The goal is ultimately to have the perfect 14 rudderless and the perfect unlimited rudder board.
Funny thing, though, we all actually have been without boards a lot. Yesterday Bill Foote rode Rand's 14, because he sold his downwinder to Pono. I was on Jeremy's board and Rand was on Kiwi's 17.
By next month we will have 2 new Foote 14's - we couldn't pass on the 19 lb 14 footers - and two new SIC Unlimited boards, mine a downsized F-16 and Rand's a copy of the board that Mark Raaphorst shaped for Kiwi. These 4 have been our favorites to date...and that might just do it :) We went through the same thing with wave boards at first and once we had found our fit, that was it.
As for the balance question, check out the picture of Jeremy's board. The wide point is much further forward than on most boards. It took me a while to figure out the sweet spot and how much rail pressure to apply when turning. By the end I was falling much less, and I think I could work it out in another run or two. This is a very similar shape to Jeremy's 12'6, which he has been on for quite a while and has it really well dialed.
Quote from: noa on April 04, 2009, 07:11:34 AM
i also really like how simple this board is. no pad, no rudder, nothing. just the essence, pure and clean.
do you prefer a fixed fin instead of a rudder ? what do you do when the wind angle is not that great or when you need to paddle with the wind to your side (like when entering the harbour) ?
Hi noa,
I prefer the fixed rudder because I like to flirt with the surf. When the wind is blowing sideways in the harbor, I just do the best I can not to be blown sideways. This means paddling on one side as hard as possible while keeping the windward rail down. I hope to get back out there today for a run...
Hi DW.. Not hot coating the deck sounds like a good idea to me. We have thaught of this but have yet to try it. In the 70's we used to squegee on the hot coat on the deck, brush the rails, and sand and gloss the rails. This gave a weave texture on the deck.. I think you should go for it and let us know the results...
Did my first run yesterday in about 2 months...I rode Rand's 14' wiffle board (the one that is 1.5 lb. foam and drilled out).Fell down about 6-8 times. The board at 27.25'' is a little narrow for me at 230 lbs...Conditions were just ok, not epic...Can't wait to get my own board...
Noa, Board ownership here in Maui is a kind of slippery concept. Of the six people that went on our run yesterday, three were on their own boards, and it wasn't swapping--Bill Foote was on Randy's Maliko 14, Chan was on Jeremey's Maliko 14 Space Alien Edition, and Randy was on Mark Jackson's SIC F17 custom.
Incidentally, Chan disappeared like the Roadrunner disappears from Wily Coyote--she just suddenly got small. Chan is always fast, but that was ridiculous.
That said, this downwinding stuff is making quivers swell quickly. I have the Penetrator, Gumby, and an F17 on order and a huge, daily deepening Jones for a Foote Maliko 14. I'm certain that the moment I set a foot on Randy's new one, or probably worse, Bill Foote's Big Bruddah version, my bank account will have another hole in it.
The complexion of what makes a fast and fun board changes radically with conditions. the molded SIC F series is the gold standard all around, and they work everywhere, But there are times and places where the Foote boards are just rockets. Even venerable Gumby is wonderful when the swells are mountains and the wind is blowing the tops off the waves.
If I could only have one board it would probably be a custom F14 (wider to suit my weight--if I weighed under 210 I'd take a molded one) with a rudder and a fin box. That would give you a lot of options for racing, a board that would be reasonably fast everywhere, that would do very well in Maliko. Stick the fin in and race it in stock class (or in the organizations that separate 12'6" from 14, in the 14' rudder or no rudder class), be reasonably fast on the south side and capable in any reasonable Maliko conditions.
Fortunately I can have more than one board, so my choice is probably going to be the Penetrator 572 for flat water and South Side downwinders, an F17 custom for mid-sized Maliko and West Coast conditions (I'm having it shipped to Portland for the summer) and a Foote Maliko 14 Big Bruddah for wacky Maliko stuff and stock board racing.
On the positive side, as Chan said, demand for these boards in Hawaii is voracious. Mark Raaphorst is constantly bugeyed these days and is trying very hard not to have long conversations with anyone. Randy's "old" Maliko 14 has a waiting list of willing buyers.
Interesting times. Everyone that "breaks their cherry" at Maliko becomes an addict after the initial terror and the realization that you're not really quite up to the challenge physically dissipates. I hear the summer runs are just as much fun but without the added drama of Spartan's and Kanaha Reefs tossing 20 foot faces at you. I figure by the time I get back here next winter they'll be running a shuttle bus. Way too much fun.
Chan, Jeremy and Bill,
thank you very much for all your info. it almost makes me feel like i'm there sharing those runs with you.
it generally sounds like Foot is the man to go to for 14'ers and Raaphorst for unlimited sizes. curious how things will develop over the summer as this is constantly changing.
this is my new baby that i'm waiting to be shipped from France. i'm very itchy to get my hands on her... http://ponantpaddlesports.over-blog.com/article-29488067.html
Bill,
speaking of shuttle buses, i'm surprised no one has done something like that yet. if the Maliko run keeps on growing in popularity, it's probably just a matter of time before someone wants to make money out of this. imagine tourist loads being shuttled to Maliko gulch, just like they bring them up to Haleakala for the downhill bike rides...scary thought.
I think that would only happen once. :P
On the calmest day it's no place for beginners. I consider my capabilities to be the minimum for a run, and on my first run I'd have to say I had no business out there. I don't know if anyone can really prepare for a winter Maliko run, but a couple of years of general SUP experience, or perhaps six months of intense experience and good conditioning is probably minimal. Being twenty and immortal vs. 62 would probably also help. And still there's going to be times that you're pretty damned scared.
After nine Maliko runs, a fair number of races, lots of up-and-back north shore downwinders, and countless south side runs, I'm probably not a complete pain-in-the-ass for everyone else, but I'm still usually the last person to the beach.
Threads like these REALLY make me wish I had more space to store downwind boards. As it is, my F18 BARELY fits in it's storage space. So for now, it'll just be that board and my 3 surfing sup boards. If I can find space, I'm definitely going to be ordering an F14 or a Foote 14. Reading all these reviews and raves about these particular boards makes me want to go build a huge shed in my backyard.
too true. Take a look at Bob's (stoneaxe's) new animotos of the F16's and remember--these things DO NOT HAVE MOTORS!! It looks like they are surfing in a head high break, which in many ways they are. It's just that the ride is nine miles long. Actually they look more like wave runners to me.
If that doesn't make your wallet get all hot and sweaty I don't know what will.
http://newenglandsup.wordpress.com/2009/04/04/more-animoto-downwinder-stoke/ (http://newenglandsup.wordpress.com/2009/04/04/more-animoto-downwinder-stoke/)
sometime real soon someone is going to break the 10MPH average speed for a Maliko run, and I believe that next winter we'll be wondering why we ever thought 10 MPH average was such a big deal.
I think the most interesting thing about these SIC pictures is that there are a tremendous number of them, and they were all shot during a single half hour helicopter session--no waiting for the prefect picture or the best conditions, just shoot and shoot. In every picture the boards are just rocking. F14, F16 Mk I and Mk II, F18 and Ku Nalu
I'm absolutely certain that there are places that can make Maliko look slow. I'm thinking the Gorge this summer on a honking day with the wind from the west to shove the swells up into roller bumps, or in the fall on a east wind day, ripping from Hood River to Rooster Rock in 40 knot winds. Yeeow. Give the kitesurfers something besides barges to look out for.
Cannon Beach to Manzanita, Manzanita to Nehalem Bay or maybe Pacific City.
Quote from: PonoBill on April 05, 2009, 12:42:59 PM
I think that would only happen once. :P
On the calmest day it's no place for beginners. I consider my capabilities to be the minimum for a run, and on my first run I'd have to say I had no business out there. I don't know if anyone can really prepare for a winter Maliko run, but a couple of years of general SUP experience, or perhaps six months of intense experience and good conditioning is probably minimal. Being twenty and immortal vs. 62 would probably also help. And still there's going to be times that you're pretty damned scared.
After nine Maliko runs, a fair number of races, lots of up-and-back north shore downwinders, and countless south side runs, I'm probably not a complete pain-in-the-ass for everyone else, but I'm still usually the last person to the beach.
I agree with Bill -- I went for my first time on Friday, had no right being out there, and I don't think l'll be going again until I get into game shape. I stayed on my line, but not on my board, and I was closer to 2.5hr than 2hr... should've brought a fishing pole to save some face. Anyway, those were mild to good conditions, but that's still talking head high wind swells and pop-up reefs that want to eat your face.
I think the reason the volcano bike ride had been successful is that everyone has ridden a bike (and thinks they still can). I think Maliko would scare the eff out of most reasonably sane people after about 10 yards out of the mouth. I guess as long as the waiver is signed and the money is paid by then... ;)
i was taken a little too litteraly when comparing with the Haleakala downhill. of course there is no way some randon Joe would be taken for the Maliko run.
having said that, downwinding is going to become a fairly popular aspect of our sport. and this outside of Maui too. the Maliko run is going to gain in fame through sup media. then you potentially get people comming to Maui to experience this myth of a run with only minimal experience in whatever conditions they downwind in.
On the subject of getting worked on a maliko run:
On today's run, a NW swell was building. At a potential danger zone, Randy and Randy decided to wait and check up on the other paddlers. As I approached them (then followed) they went out, out, out - much further than I would have.
I had a great time, very pleasant run.
Things could have been very, very different.
Wow, there was wind? Looked really light from the house.
^Wind and windswell were less than ideal. Around Paia (?), a light shower zoomed over, eliminating my view of shore. I fantasized paddling between Oahu and Kauai. Somehow, the sun was beaming down, yet it was white all around, very beautiful. Unwittingly, I was gradually drifting toward kanaha. Up ahead in the mist, Randy and Randy were waiting, and steered me out. Good thing too, a visit to Jill in the ER was just around the corner. Very fun paddle, I really love the variety out there. I gotta be more careful with the daydreaming.
Quote from: PonoBill on April 05, 2009, 12:42:59 PM
I think that would only happen once. :P
On the calmest day it's no place for beginners. I consider my capabilities to be the minimum for a run, and on my first run I'd have to say I had no business out there. I don't know if anyone can really prepare for a winter Maliko run, but a couple of years of general SUP experience, or perhaps six months of intense experience and good conditioning is probably minimal. Being twenty and immortal vs. 62 would probably also help. And still there's going to be times that you're pretty damned scared.
After nine Maliko runs, a fair number of races, lots of up-and-back north shore downwinders, and countless south side runs, I'm probably not a complete pain-in-the-ass for everyone else, but I'm still usually the last person to the beach.
I'm not sure a Haliakila Bike ride type business could be run for doing the Maliko run, but I'm sure there is a business opportunity there somewhere for someone. I'm sure there are other zoners like me that enjoy reading the exploits of you guys that are doing the run and we're pretty envious of all the fun you're having. I would like to try it, or something like it, when I come to Maui, but would definitely need some hand holding.
If I come to Maui, I wouldn't have the right board, wouldn't know when and how to do it, wouldn't know what conditions were right and which conditions would be suicidal, and I wouldn't be able to arrange the drop off/ pick up logistics. I'd of course hit up some of you up for advice, but that isn't available for most people.
Quote from: LaPerouseBay on April 06, 2009, 07:38:36 AM
^Wind and windswell were less than ideal. Around Paia (?), a light shower zoomed over, eliminating my view of shore. I fantasized paddling between Oahu and Kauai. Somehow, the sun was beaming down, yet it was white all around, very beautiful. Unwittingly, I was gradually drifting toward kanaha. Up ahead in the mist, Randy and Randy were waiting, and steered me out. Good thing too, a visit to Jill in the ER was just around the corner. Very fun paddle, I really love the variety out there. I gotta be more careful with the daydreaming.
Been there, done that, lost my T shirt.
Quote from: Tom on April 06, 2009, 08:28:42 AM
I'm not sure a Haliakila Bike ride type business could be run for doing the Maliko run, but I'm sure there is a business opportunity there somewhere for someone.
I suspect there might be too, but you'd need one hefty liability waiver. On the other hand we were all hanging out at Maliko the other day daydreaming about a bar and grille there. With perhaps board storage, and maybe a porter to get you over the stream without having your board blow away.
If this were Mexico there would be a funky bar there faster than you can say "little bottles of Corona in a galvanized bucket".
If it were Florida there would be a deck out over the rocks at the entrance and a dozen different frozen drink makers spinning.
If it were California the coastal commission would be closing it to cars at the same time that the highway department was trying to pave it.
If it was Oregon there would be one person using it, and he'd be trying to keep everyone else out.
If it was Green Bay Wisconsin it would be snowing.
But here in Maui it's gonna be just us folks with a beer cooler sometimes.
Not so bad. And of course the fact that every so often giant swells come through the mouth and scour out the gulch might limit buildability.
Hi Bill Foote -
I truly admire your skills as a designer/builder. The cored out sandwich downwinder really sparked my interest as does this one. Although I'm just a backyard hobbyist, I really scour the different websites in an effort to keep up with what's going on with new tech.
So... if I may, the board pictured has the bamboo stomp reinforcement, carbon rail/deck, plus a center carbon strip? Would you mind telling us how far the center strip extends over the rail/deck strips? How far under does the underside overlap extend? The edges of the bamboo and rail/deck strips are visible through the bag but I was just curious about the center strip and overlaps.
Thanks!
The center strip was 10'' and the rail bands were 12'', making about a 3'' lap on the bottom....
Quote from: footemaui on April 05, 2009, 09:33:13 AM
In the 70's we used to squegee on the hot coat on the deck, brush the rails, and sand and gloss the rails. This gave a weave texture on the deck.. I think you should go for it and let us know the results...
Bill,
I took your advice and the weight came out 22.5 lbs. My previous board weighed 27 lbs. I did pay a price for pushing the limits. I had more than a dozen sand throughs to patch. On the 27 pounder, I didn't have any sand throughs. If I had professional skills, I'd probably only have one or two sand throughs. It was well worth the extra effort.
My 22.5 lb board lamination schedule was:
Bottom- 1 layer 6 oz E, 1 layer 6 oz carbon. Both layers lapping rail.
Top - 1 layer 6 oz S, 1 layer 6 oz carbon covering 90% of deck, 1 layer 6 oz E lapping rail.
Board is 14 ft x 27 1/4 wide x 4 3/4 thick.
Dwight...I'm really hoping to get down there for Chris's race (Onslow Bay Challenge) in part so I can see your boards. They look great! Your skills look pretty sick to me bud!
Bill...unfortunately i can't swing getting a board from you and shipping it here or I would. I'm going to follow in Dwight's footsteps and try my hand at building a board this summer. I hope to make it as close to the board you made for Randy as possible.
Stoney.. If you need any assistance let me know...
Thanks Bill....I'll definitely do that. I sent you a PM. Randy's board just felt so right to me. Like it was made for me. I need more stability than most folks and that board was just so comfortable.
Bill,
Going light on the sanding coat turned out to be a bad idea for me. I had a few pin hole leaks today. I'm re-coating.
DW... What you need to do if you are not already, is to get airocel and mix it to the consistancy of vasoline. Then squeege it on before you hot coat. Get it on thin as it does not sand well and pull from two directions to get those pesky little holes filled. Then hot coat over this. After you sand Red Cap it at least once of not twice, then sand the Red Cap back and paint.... BF
Wow, I just read all the way through this thread again, and I've got a VICIOUS Maliko Jones. What a great thread, my palms are sweating. Headed for Maui tomorrow Morning!!! Ordered a Maliko 14 Chubster edition from Mr. Foote and my F18 is on the slow boat, getting raped by baggage handlers as we speak.
THIS IS A GREAT THREAD! And so prophetic.
Turned out that I was right on about the Gorge--a vast array of world class runs present themselves. Next summer is gonna rock. Wrong about the Oregon coast--onshore winds, cold, sharky, lonely and no place to land. Other than that it was great.
See you guys soon.
Quote from: footemaui on April 11, 2009, 01:59:00 PM
DW... What you need to do if you are not already, is to get airocel and mix it to the consistancy of vasoline. Then squeege it on before you hot coat. Get it on thin as it does not sand well and pull from two directions to get those pesky little holes filled. Then hot coat over this. After you sand Red Cap it at least once of not twice, then sand the Red Cap back and paint.... BF
Now that this old thread has come back to life ;D
Hey Bill, your tips were a big help. That's how I did my last 2 boards. They turned out super light. Not quite a match for the Nelson factory's skills, but getting closer and having fun trying.
Thanks.
Sorry to turn this into a shaping post......
Can one of you guys please let me know what Red Cap is? Assuming it is some sort of filler/ primer coat, can't even find anything on Google. I get a little lost at the very last finishing stages and to be honest can't even work out what's the point of hot coating the top of the board - other than for cosmetics. Seems like at the very last stage after trying to keep the weight down pouring on the resin is the last thing you really want to do.
Looking forward to the photos of the new Foote 14 "Comfort" Bill - makes sense to me to have a little more width, I've come to the conclusion that falling off doesn't do good things for your average run times! Sorry I just missed you, I'll be back about April 10 but I'm guessing that's about when you leave.
Maui - totally addictive......don't they say that a guy thinks about sex every 10 seconds, not sure if it's just getting old but I think Maui is right up there in my feeble brain!
Red cap is also known as red spot putty. 3M recently stopped making it. The auto body guys hated it and now use 2 part spot putty. The new stuff is not ideal for us anymore.
Go to the nelson factory web site and watch all the videos. You'll see them using the red spot putty. It comes in a tube. It is nothing more than a scratch filler used before painting.
On my builds I tried the new 2 part spot putty and didn't like it. Too thick. Adding micro balloons to epoxy, plus blue pigment, is now my final step before paint. You just need to fine sand at that step to remove the scratches you won't be filling with red cap.
You're right, adding hot coat with a brush, as is customary in clear finish board building, adds a ton of weight. That's one of many reasons windsurfers don't do it. The other reason is they need to hide the exotic materials, like carbon, kevlar, or PVC foam. So if you plan to paint the exterior (recommended with carbon) you can save additional weight by skimping on the hot coat by adding filler and using a squeegee to make it super thin. Thin hot coats don't have to be pretty because you paint it last.
And then don't forget to sand the paint down with 400 grit for a speed finish. You actually end up with some of the board showing through the paint.
Funny thing about speed sanding. Some of the production windsurfers come with a distressed paint finish to make them look like they have been given the sanded finish pros apply to their boards.