Standup Zone Forum

Just turned 60 and the thoughts of retirement are beginning float around in my head.  Not sure I can swing it for a few more years, but I was wondering when my fellow zoners plan to retire.  Or, if you have retired, what age were you when you did the deed?

Zoo, at 51 I don't plan on it. When the time comes I'll just hang up my own shingle. I had a guy I've met a few time say last night "you're retired, right?" I was almost offended..... maybe it's the white beard.

I never made enough money to retire so I guess I'll be working as long as I'm able.

I was always too busy to work. I new I'd have to pay for it someday. I guess that day is now.

I'm now 64 years young and retired when I was 56. Best move I ever made. My retirement years have been the best of my life.

I was fortunate in a way in that many years ago I worked in an industry where the retirement age was 55. I left that job long before my retirement, but I saw a lot of people retire early, and I saw first hand the benefits of early retirement. The people I saw who retired early almost all thoroughly enjoyed it. They looked better than when they were working and were having the time of their lives.

I didn't forget what I had witnessed and early retirement became a goal of mine. I married later in life and it was the first marriage for both my wife and I. We became pretty diligent savers when we were working and we set a goal to retire early. Now we are reaping the rewards.

It really is a great time of life. If people ask me about retirement I usually tell them that they will know when the time is right. But in the back of my mind I can't help but think that you never get these years back. So for anyone who is thinking about it, I'd say go for it.

As I say to many, it's the best job I never had!

The thing is, the things that I love to do are ski, surf, and windsurf. Teaching those are my careers (well skiing and windsurfing anyway). I have been teaching skiing for 48 years, and windsurfing for 35 years. The people that I teach are all pretty skilled, and many would be considered to be experts, so being on the snow or ocean with them does not really hold me back from enjoying myself. My students are also my best friends, so in fact it adds to my enjoyment. At 66 retiring does not really have much appeal. I did make a change when I hit 60. Up until that point, I taught all day every day all winter, and 6 days a week all summer. At 60, I cut back on my hours by about half, and now can spend more time skiing, surfing, and windsurfing with my wife. It feels a lot more balanced, but fully retiring sounds like less fun and less rewarding than what I have going now, so I don't look forward to it in my future anytime soon. I suppose that sometime in my 70s my body may force the issue, but hopefully not for a long time.

My dad retired when he was 50 years old. He passed away at the age of 85. He told me when I reached the age of 50, to retire early if possible and really enjoy the rest of my life. I was lucky in life to retire early, without the worry of "not having enough money to retire". I made good money all my life and started planning for retirement when I was 23 years old.

So when I reached 60 years of age, I had the money to retire and I did retire in August of 2010. I'll be 68 years old this upcoming February. And I've enjoyed my 7 plus years I've already been retired. Basically, when I retired I became "foot loose and fancy free" to do anything I wanted to do.

I do have two regrets though. Since I came from the maritime industry, there are times "I really miss having the feel of a deck of a boat under my feet and also the rocking of a boat at anchor".

BTW, my wife planned to retire early too. She worked at the same place for 33 years and started saving money for retirement at age 22. Money wise, she was able to retire when she reached the age of 55 in June of 2007. She's even "more foot loose and fancy free" than I am because she is always on the go.

I'd like to retire at 65but don't think it'll be possible.
Will have to at least be part timing something forever.
The way the longevity factor runs in my family I'll be happy to work the rest of my life and be healthy enough to do so. I'm in education so it's not impossible to continue. 

i like a mix of work and play--at least for now

i also worry about the state of the world and that i will leave children/grandchildren behind--i have come around to the importance that i have money for them, and leave them money---i dont feel i owe them, and have provided well until now, esp with expensive education, but feel like, if i have the means whereby i can leave them money, i should wring it out a bit

and i dont tell them about this--i tell them they need to become financially independent of me

myself, i dont really want for much.......and i work for myself, essentially, so can take what time i want

i see getting to a place where i go to my office only 50% of the time, defer much to my junior partner, and slowly turn the biz over to him. For now tho, I go in all the time, run everything, but still get most swells

For us white collar computer jockeys, life is short, too short to spend trapped in an office 40+ hours a week. I used to LOVE my job and my industry, but those days faded fast. I love being outside, on my board, or cycling, or climbing. I started saving at 25 and have lived below my means for 22 years now, and it's paid off. I just "semi-retired" by going half-time at my job at the age of 47. I'm off today, and will be on my board by lunchtime.  I'm only 6 weeks into this journey but it's amazing so far, I have half my time back, to do things I wanna do :)

When I was in my early 30's I saw so many of my senior managers who were beyond stressed, overweight, grey, balding, and just depressed - in their mid-50's. And I would hear them say "man I hope I can retire when I'm 65..."   Yeah, another 10 YEARS of that misery. All the while they made 6-figure salaries but were still in debt and spending it all. It's classic lifestyle inflation. I saw that path and said "no effing way is that my plan!"  I saved, invested, didn't give a crap about keeping up with the Joneses, and here I am now reaping the benefits. I could probably fully retire but for now need to keep my healthcare. We'll see.

There were a lot of early retirement blogs that helped me on my path with inspirational writing. If I could reccomend one post it would be this one. This sums up why time is our most valuable resource - http://thehappyphilosopher.com/how-understanding-the-marginal-utility-of-money-will-make-you-happier/ (http://thehappyphilosopher.com/how-understanding-the-marginal-utility-of-money-will-make-you-happier/)

No one ever said "I wish I spent more time in the office" on their deathbed...

I have been appraising commercial real estate in Northern California for 32 years.  Investments over the years will make retirement possible, within the next 5 years (I am 56).  I have had my own company that entire time and my friends think I have been retired for years now.  Used to have as many as 6 employees and now its just me and my wife, working from home.  We have a a great clientele and are able to pick and choose what jobs we want.  I have been doing it so long its easy.  After our youngest finished college 2 years ago, the pay raise was huge, and we cut back on the workload to have fun.  We will likely continue to take 2-6 week "vacations" and continue to work well into our 60's and possibly 70's, just not as much and be very selective on the assignments.
We already catch the swells we want or the big snow falls up in Tahoe, and water ski in our backyard (the Delta) 2-3 days a week, and get to the track to race my drag car, so life is good now.  Each year we work less and earn more, and play more. Hoping that trend continues.

After more than 30 years doing the same thing and almost 20 of a brutal commute I changed things up this year and am working from home and trying to make a go of doing stuff online. Scared, excited, and all sorts of emotions go along with it. It's always interested me and almost did it 10 years ago. I should have then but the steady and reliable money coming in while my kids were in college it's probably the right decision I waited even if I missed out on some opportunity. All over the place with my plan in the ways I will generate money. Learning lots, had a great start out of the gate but has slowed down. Need to get it figured out where it is a little more stable or predictable coming in.
I didn't retire but I kind of did. I can do this when I am 70, I can do it anywhere, I can leave it to my kids. I won't do anything with it that I can't leave to my kids.
I go a bit stir crazy even tho I am putting in lots of hours.
I guess what I am saying towards your question and knowing your potential life changing event with your moving is....really consider retiring/doing something different. We're only in this for one ride.
Mid 50's here.

So alot of what you guys are saying is confirming my feelings.

I'm 57 and have been partly retired for the past 8 yrs, working at a 2/3's pace.
Doing this I was able to extend the union enforced retirement age of 56 out to almost 59. As the remaining time quickly dwindles I've been caught in conflict of wanting to continue the job I love or increase my water time while still "young" and healthy. The problem being that to continue would require going back to probably quite a bit more than the time I am now working, about 150%, and under much less favorable conditions.

Just a couple more years could leave me as a burnt out 60+er or worse. I'm reasonably set up with a retirement fund now so this would be, aside of continuing an already 38yr long career, just a money chase.

The answer seems obvious.

My long term plan was to retire at 70... working in data communication technology was interesting and not that stressful. As time passed and dot.com crashes of the early 2000's, then the offshore movement with technology companies, byuouts, mergers, cutback's, layoffs, pay cuts over the last 13 years the politics around the job made it very stressful always looking over my shoulders.
Short term plan changed hoping to make it to 66 and retire... then reality checked in.

Had a health issue, near death experience, spent 2 months in the hospital... but survived and was cleared to go back to work, had been on short term disability (insurance) from work. Went back to work and that same day they laid me off after 28 years of dedicated hard work.
No pension, just my savings mostly 401k...

Short finish... Due to health issues I could no longer do any hard labor and in the technology filed that was moving forward very fast the 40 years of experience meant little as only the last 5 years of technical knowledge in my field was relevant. I retired and took early SS at 63 years of age.

Thought retirement would be fun but unless you have a pension, good access to medical insurance, its boring and expensive, but sometimes there is fun.

Never would have retired, cuz all my life, my time was my own, by design.
I owned a bar for 30 years, open at night, so... not really work.

Family, play... then work.

In 2010, my landlady realized that after my 30 year lease expired, she could steal what I had built...and so, she did.
I lost everything, including my home.

So..... why does this matter to this conversation?

I found I could live quite well on NOTHING.
well, almost nothing...
I get $1,306 in Social Security

After rent, utilities and car insurance
I have $100 per week to live on.

That includes food, gas, clothing, auto repair, travel, entertainment....
everything comes out of that $100

So I budget.
It's amazing what you can live without.

I do sell a few Sunova's a year... and my Van is full of demo boards, so I have the odd extra $$$ to fill in some gaps.... but I don't count on it.

I save up $399 every summer, to join Captain's Golf Course with a winter membership.
Sept. to April, I get unlimited play on 2 championship courses.
It kills the budget.... but 7 months of outdoor exercise is worth it.

I own my 2001 GMC van and 2006 Honda Civic, which I repair myself.

Everyday is MINE.... to surf, paddle, play golf or just lay about making videos.

Safety net? NONE
Do I care? HELL no!

Why?

Cuz I know, that right NOW...
I can still surf
I can still paddle
I can still play golf.

Tomorrow?
No guarantee on that.

Every day...
you are a little bit less than yesterday.

If my shit hits the fan, I will figure it out, or not....
but today is mine.

Some of my friends are dying. Most almost had enough to retire.

My world may look small.... but right now, it's pretty sweet!

Quote from: supthecreek on October 30, 2017, 08:42:47 AM
Every day...
you are a little bit less than yesterday.

If my shit hits the fan, I will figure it out, or not....
but today is mine.

Some of my friends are dying. Most almost had enough to retire.

My world may look small.... but right now, it's pretty sweet!

You GO Creek!

QuoteI get $1,306 in Social Security

QuoteSafety net? NONE

:o  :o

Quote from: nalu-sup on October 30, 2017, 01:32:41 AM
The thing is, the things that I love to do are ski, surf, and windsurf. Teaching those are my careers (well skiing and windsurfing anyway). I have been teaching skiing for 48 years, and windsurfing for 35 years. The people that I teach are all pretty skilled, and many would be considered to be experts, so being on the snow or ocean with them does not really hold me back from enjoying myself. My students are also my best friends, so in fact it adds to my enjoyment. At 66 retiring does not really have much appeal. I did make a change when I hit 60. Up until that point, I taught all day every day all winter, and 6 days a week all summer. At 60, I cut back on my hours by about half, and now can spend more time skiing, surfing, and windsurfing with my wife. It feels a lot more balanced, but fully retiring sounds like less fun and less rewarding than what I have going now, so I don't look forward to it in my future anytime soon. I suppose that sometime in my 70s my body may force the issue, but hopefully not for a long time.

You don't have a job, when you love what you do, it's not work, so you've already won, which is excellent. 
This goes very close to my life's motto, "a little bit of vacation everyday", how you define "vacation" is up to you, but if you can achieve it, you're winning.  For me it was lots of surfing and living like a happy cheapskate.
My motto has allowed me to work in the design/construction (residential) industry as long as I have, I didn't retire until the beginning of this year at the age of 67, "a little bit of vacation everyday".
But, now that I'm retired, I'm getting really busy.  My work has always had me working on other people's houses, neglecting mine in the process, now it's my turn, but I don't have all the paid for help that I used to have.  So even though everyday is Saturday, I find myself wishing I didn't have so many solo projects facing me.  Then I think of PonoBill, and then my projects don't seem so endless.  ;)

I love the concept of early retirement. However, at 54 and in the prime of my earning years, and still enjoying what I do, there isn't the pressure to hang it up.  Since my wife enjoys SUP surfing at least as much as I do, every weekend and vacation is a really enjoyable holiday for us.  We both have our ailments, but so far it hasn't kept either of us out of the water for any serious time.

We've planned for an exit around 62 to 62-1/2 (for me).  The industry knowledge I've built up over time will still have value, so life may look more like semi-retirement, cutting back the daily grind and working more on projects or marketing.  I may actually do better in retirement than I am now, with all significant cash outlays being eliminated.  We've both been pretty adept at making extra cash when needed, and I don't expect that to end. 

I've saved for retirement starting at (gasp) 14, listening to my mother's advice.  I generally stop adding to the 401K during downcycles, and jump back in at the bottom.  I'll have enough when 62 rolls around, to live a modest and enjoyable life, somewhere in between Creek and Pono I suppose, though both lives sound fantastic to me.

Retired by my 62nd birthday.  I just couldn't stand doing it any more, got tired of being target practice and being on the hamster wheel.  The evolution of the professions has made them a chronic, stressful misery full of fleas, parasites and predators that is a bit strange to experience.

I think the answer lies between resources, whether you like what you are doing, and projected health based on genetics.  I have known guys who seem to KNOW that they aren't going to live much longer who retired early.

In retrospect, I could have done it earlier, but that is only in retrospect because I retired into a bull market and rising real estate prices.  I did not make a lot of money in spite of a nominally lucrative profession, but my wife worked and we saved like bandits.  It has been hard to shake the habit, so we have had the experience of becoming significantly better off after six years of retirement than we were when we retired.  That could change with market conditions, but it would take a massive downturn now and we would still be able to stay retired at this point.

Life is endlessly odd when it comes to savings habits, and I know a lot of guys in my profession who have gone bankrupt TWICE.  Divorce(s), chemical dependency, and just living beyond their means top the list. I knew one guy who made piles, always looked turned out like GQ, bragged he never wore a tie less than $100 or stayed in a hotel less than $300 a night, drove the latest status car, but never had two cents in cash because he spent everything and stiffed all his creditors.  He was one of the twice bankrupt.  Another I knew was also a con artist and a lush, who older managed to snag a rich widow in Lafayette as his retirement plan.  Another married a younger woman with a money burning habit, and she convinced him his children were his enemy.  To disinherit them, she convinced him to sign over everything to her.  She then kicked him out of his own house and started divorce proceedings, leaving him elderly and poor.  He had some issues with his license, and struggled with what money he had on litigation to re-instate it so he could continue working, and failed.  Last I heard, he went into a publicly funded nursing home.

One of my oldest friends is still working at 70, presumably because he is an inveterate gambling addict and day trader, and I gather has lost piles that way.

Great thread. Enjoyable reading. I am not quite 40 years old yet and am probably about to enter my peak years of earning potential.

I am in the expensive phase of life. 3 school aged daughters, a wife who loves to spend money, and we all love vacation. Big house, oppressive mortgage, finishing out my wife's school loans, etc. Nothing left at the end of each month. We have been saving for retirement since our early 20s and for our kids' college 3 years before we had our first kid (all through automatic withdrawals). I've always known that we will probably need more for our retirement goals, not quite there probably by about a third.

So i have tried to reason with my wife about curtailing her spending and looking more at the future. She is always like "We are not going to be young forever, our kids are going to be gone before we know it." And I can't disagree, so its another vacation and another vacation after that.

I run/own 2 businesses. One is a Civil Engineering company the other is a Land Surveying company. My birthright is a commercial Cranberry farm, which I have just started working towards figuring out how I will run when my Dad can't anymore (6-10 years ish). So I guess I am saying that my lifestyle is forcing me to work my ass off (American Dream). The mortgage will end about the time the kids are all 3 in college. I am looking at spending a lot of money these next 15 years, and see no way out of it.

I'm pretty tolerant of business risk and in order to fund this lifestyle I don't have a choice but to increase my earning (or get a divorce, but my wife is awesome). Just in the last few days two companies have approached me to buy them out. They are both my local competition and I have plucked their clients already as well as some of their key people. The plucking of clients and staff did not happen as a focus of mine, just a natural consequence of providing better service and expertise. Now they are just asking me to finish the job of killing them off. In both cases the principals want to retire, hand over the keys and staff to me and get a monthly payment. I have already done a take-over (the surveying company) and know I can expect 2 years of stress and late nights getting the thing running smoothly. I will probably take an additional $4k per month to my salary as a result of the mergers. Not really worth it for the stress, but again I feel like it is my only choice.

At any rate, my goal is to have only one job by the time I am 59 - a cranberry farmer. The key is of course to build prosperous companies with executable exit strategies.

How many of you have exited a business you built? How did you do it?

Retired at 61.

They key for me, was talking the wife into working part time to make health care affordable until Medicare kicks in. 20 hours a week working at the hospital gets us dirt cheap insurance.

Then moving to the retired folks state (Florida) where we have tons of play mates because everyone is retired. It's a hoot having so many friends like us.

I'm better off financially retired. It's crazy how much money you waste when living in the rat race.

SUP leave, don't try to guide your daughters towards formal college, unless you see some honest dedication towards a specific goal, college now days can easily wipeout a retirement savings, it's so overpriced with no guarantees.  Trade schools are the future which can offer almost immediate employment, and put them on a ladder towards success.

I feel lucky to hear the stories and experiences of people on this forum.  Some real life perspective here.  ...and wisdom.  This thread is timely for me as I've been really starting to think a lot about this.

I'm 44--a spring chicken compared to some you geezers!  ;)  I watched my friend die of brain cancer when I was 35 (first real wake up to mortality), lost my vestibular system at 39 (years of hell...still dealing with it), broke my back at 41 (I'll never be the same), and am watching my 53 year old brother-in-law battle a stage 4 cancer as of two weeks ago (gonna be a rough ride over the next year).  So ya, I've kind of been forced into really evaluating perspective over the past while.

I worked really hard in my 20s and early 30s building a couple small tech companies (10-20 employees).  Things are good now and I'm not working nearly as hard as I used to in the pure startup days (but still work full-time...just reasonable hours now).  I get to leave my office at 2:30 to pick up my kids from school (and work from home after that until no later than 5pm).  I coach both my son and daughter's ice hockey teams (and love every minute of it).  I feel quite lucky to have the time I do have available while working full time. But, I'm starting to crave more time and flexibility--the ability to choose projects strictly out of interest.  Live life at a slower pace. Exercise more. Enjoy friends and family even more.  Surf more (which is not close by).

I've always lived by "pay yourself first" (reading the Wealthy Barber as a kid had a profound effect--thanks Dad).  Over the past 3 years, I've been trying to line things up so I can retire at 50, 55 at the very latest.  The stories here just confirm that that goal is worth aiming for.  Great thread.  Thanks.

Quote from: starman on October 30, 2017, 10:05:10 AM

QuoteI get $1,306 in Social Security

QuoteSafety net? NONE

:o  :o

Pardons starman.... as you correctly adduce, I do live off the "Safety net" called social security. I acknowledge my grammatical transgression.   

For my purposes, I was merely pointing out that if something major happened, I have no savings, retirement account or rich Uncle to fall back on... as in "safety net"

Semantics aside...my post had only one purpose:
to point out that it is possible to live with a LOT less.

I am playing "beat the clock" with my body....and, the clock will win.
What I do between now and then, is my focus.

surfafrica's post above, highlights so much of why I am a peace with all that I DO have!

I want to try everything I can and learn as much as I can till the day I die. I look forward to working some part time job into my 70's. I've screwed around plenty in my life, and look forward to more of it. I've had more work than I could handle since I've been in my teens. My dad was a custom home builder who had a good reputation, and because of that I was fortunate enough to fall into very high end clients to build for. After 15 years of 24/7 at my clients beck and call, I decided to slow things down and spend time more time with my (at the time) grade school kids. I've spent the past 15 years reinventing myself, and now work for an architect managing all the cad work and teaching construction and drafting part time at a local junior college.
I've worked hard since I was a little kid. Working on my dads jobs, mowing lawns, frik'n paper routes, warehouses, etc. and I've always made money. Always had a nice truck and or car. Have almost never been in any debt, I own properties, and made sound investments. My crazy work ethic is something I've recently been trying to shake. It's like a bad drug addiction, you have to quit before it kills you. Paddling got me back on the water, and showed me life from a different vantage. Being a mile offshore, looking back at the rat race and noticing that there are dolphins following me put my life in a new light. Someone I paddled with regularly, asked me one time if I was 'semi-retired'? I liked the sound of that.
So at 54 'semi-retired' it is, and will be as long as I can maintain this ideal balance. Next year my daughter will be off to college, and my son a few years after that. We planned for their college, so it shouldn't cut to deep into my semi-retirement. We'll see :)

Great thread. I'm 2-3 years off and still working 12 hour days.  My biggest worry is what I'll suddenly  do with all that free time.  Sup lots for sure, but need to find a new interest!

I've always worked like a maniac, retirement hasn't changed that except for time in Maui, when I'm simply too tired from playing to do much. I suspect I'm still in the 99th percentile in the narrow category of Nutty Overachievement For No Good Reason, even in Maui, now that I think about it. Steering that neurological tick in the right direction yielded a good sized business. Under lightweight pressure from investors we searched for a CEO to replace me. As soon as that happened my very smart wife and partner Diane, pulled the ripcord at age 40. I had to go back and fire the idiot after he pretty much destroyed the company and then stuck it out for five more years, retiring at 60 (Diane is 15 years younger than me), eventually selling the company to employees.

I never had retirement as a goal. Other than saving for it, I never planned on it. I pretty much assumed I'd fall in the traces. I've been somewhat surprised to find myself functionally retired. But I pretty much work every day--building stuff, fiddling, learning, trying to improve my skills. I'm constantly tempted to start a business, but I generally talk myself out of it. I understand the kind of commitment it actually requires to be successful, and I have a bit of a problem competing with people who are trying to make a living, while I'm just fucking around.

Anyone looking at their retirement goals, or trying to improve the way they've retired might find some value in the book I wrote. The book suffers from the usual problem of an author who doesn't really know much when he starts writing--the act of writing educates quickly. So every editing pass of the first few chapters results in yet another rewrite. The later chapters are just collected thoughts and notes.

The book is here:https://retirement.pressbooks.com/ and will soon be here in a more useful form: http://www.theretirementtrap.com/ 

Quote from: supthecreek on October 30, 2017, 01:14:02 PM
What I do between now and then, is my focus.

Made me think of this PJ gem:

North is to south what the clock is to time
There's east and there's west and there's everywhere life
I know I was born and I know that I'll die
The in between is mine
I am mine

You rule Rick!

QuoteAfter rent, utilities and car insurance
I have $100 per week to live on.

That includes food, gas, clothing, auto repair, travel, entertainment....
everything comes out of that $100

Well that is quite a remarkable feat of budgeting Rick considering there are millions of others in America in the same boat one would think you could improve your income by sharing your budget skills. Living on $14.28 a day with all the amenities you describe is incredible. (Actually it's $13.10 a day if one deducts your yearly golf fees.)

What do you do for health insurance? Is that included in the budget? What's the plan when the body gives out considering you have no backup besides SSI?

Quote from: PonoBill on October 30, 2017, 02:04:18 PM
But I pretty much work every day--building stuff, fiddling, learning, trying to improve my skills. I'm constantly tempted to start a business, but I generally talk myself out of it. I understand the kind of commitment it actually requires to be successful, and I have a bit of a problem competing with people who are trying to make a living, while I'm just fucking around.

Pono hit the point of early retirement on the head here. If you can save enough money that it can support your lifestyle, then you don't need to work for money anymore. But you will work of course. You can just work on things that you want to work on - regardless if they make any money or not because money is now not a worry. Yes, this can also be called 'fucking around' by some. I now spend half of my week working on writing, and starting what might become a new business. But if they don't make me any money - I don't give a crap. I love doing them.  In other words, work is great if you don't need the money

Some days I find myself 'working' on these new projects all day, while others I paddle for a while, ride my bike for a while, and just read and learn new things. Then I play guitar for a while. Life is good in semi-retirement, and I know it's only gonna get better.

Quote from: esskay1000 on October 30, 2017, 04:15:39 PM
Some days I find myself 'working' on these new projects all day, while others I paddle for a while, ride my bike for a while, and just read and learn new things. Then I play guitar for a while. Life is good in semi-retirement, and I know it's only gonna get better.

Hmm.  Interesting.  Sounds very similar -> as did all those things today except play my guitar.  But the days not over.  Had to cut the lawn earlier.  So all ready for the little kid trick or treaters tomorrow night.

46 so it's not on my to do list at all. maybe 67 or later, who knows

wow, what a great reading.

  Being 48 with 3 yo son makes possibility early retirement close to non-existent. So I think I have another 20 years ahead of me and actually was wondering what you are guys thinking about switching the field late in life? I kinda barely tolerate my office job just because of flexible schedule and benefits. Management sucks, the team slowly collapsed and I'm a last one from twelve or so ppl used to work here. Barely raises or promotions (head office is on the left coast so they don't really care). I clearly not enjoy this place anymore and kinda disappointed how ppl were treated. I think I'm looking for a way out and don't really want to be keyboard/mouse jokey anymore. 
   I always liked construction/ renovation business. Currently finishing my third gut job where I always begin as a customer and finishing firing crew and fixing the crappy job myself. I think I would be much happier in this field. Our family friend for many years operates his own RE business and wants us to join him as business is growing. He added property management division and looks like it's going in the right direction under my wife's oversight. I'm helping them too once in a while, but the business is not at the point that I could switch full time. Is this a dangerous game (from a financial point of view) for both of us working in the same business? 

People often say they won't retire or that they'll work into their 70's but the average retirement age in the US is 62.  A largew percentage is forced one way or another.

Words cannot describe how much I hate being a teacher, but I'm kind of stuck until I can retire.  Too old to make a career change at this point.  I'll be enjoying these posts looking for ideas.

At 52....I'm 62 now.  I started working in Public Safety in my early 20's.  I always picked jobs that gave a pension and provided good medical benefits as I came from a poor family that constantly fought about never having enough money.  I just wanted a fair paying job that would provide a steady paycheck once a month.  I have been very fortunate as the State would take the money out of my paycheck for retirement - pension weather I wanted them to or not.  Now way I could have put money away for early retirement but the State did it for me.

  My wife has always worked.  I never made her get a job or go to work... she just did.  When first married she ran a small child care business in our home.  She then went back to school and received a teaching credential and worked as a teacher while the kids were in grade and High School.  She is still employed as a school administrator.  She still wakes up in the morning singing and happy to go to work...something I seldom did.  We got the kids through college without them acquiring any school loans.  The kids are grown and gone now with good jobs.  We worked hard and bought a meager house in the late 80's that used to be a drug house.  I fixed and painted everything in that house and sold it three years later for a good profit.  We have lived in the house were in now for 27 years.  It's was paid off five years ago.  We did one of those 20 year fixed rate loans and paid it off early.

  I've always driven older cars (mostly older mini vans) with brand new surfboards and wetsuits in them.  We have always tried to live within our means.  We never bought new cars until after I retired.  We only took out one home loan (second) to fix and tile the bathrooms, update the kitchen, put on a new roof and pay for an older Toyota car for out daughter during her college years.  That loan was payed off many years ago.  If we sacrificed it would have been on not going on expensive overseas vacations.

  If your hoping to retire and your young the one word I would focus on is "Balance!"  Keep your life balanced with work, family and play.  I would prioritize family by spending lots of time talking with your kids.  Watching and playing with them in the sports they like... probably won't be surfing or stand up paddling.  Keep praying and checking your life for good balance.   

  I look at my early retirement as a gift from God.  The first 5 years were really special.  Sup surfed most every day.  Really got back into the playing of guitar. Started a band where we would play at Nursing homes around the county.  Visited Hawaii four different times.  Read a bunch of books.  Something to remember is your not going to sup surf at 60 the way you did in your thirties and forties.  If you have some big goal in your life that is of a physical nature I would try to achieve that while your body is younger.  Sorry for the ramble.       

Quote from: Bean on October 30, 2017, 02:26:35 PM

Quote from: supthecreek on October 30, 2017, 01:14:02 PM
What I do between now and then, is my focus.

Made me think of this PJ gem:

North is to south what the clock is to time
There's east and there's west and there's everywhere life
I know I was born and I know that I'll die
The in between is mine
I am mine

You rule Rick!

A great Pearl Jam tune!

Quote from: supthecreek on October 30, 2017, 08:42:47 AM
Never would have retired, cuz all my life, my time was my own, by design.
I owned a bar for 30 years, open at night, so... not really work.

Family, play... then work.

In 2010, my landlady realized that after my 30 year lease expired, she could steal what I had built...and so, she did.
I lost everything, including my home.

So..... why does this matter to this conversation?

I found I could live quite well on NOTHING.
well, almost nothing...
I get $1,306 in Social Security

After rent, utilities and car insurance
I have $100 per week to live on.

That includes food, gas, clothing, auto repair, travel, entertainment....
everything comes out of that $100

So I budget.
It's amazing what you can live without.

I do sell a few Sunova's a year... and my Van is full of demo boards, so I have the odd extra $$$ to fill in some gaps.... but I don't count on it.

I save up $399 every summer, to join Captain's Golf Course with a winter membership.
Sept. to April, I get unlimited play on 2 championship courses.
It kills the budget.... but 7 months of outdoor exercise is worth it.

I own my 2001 GMC van and 2006 Honda Civic, which I repair myself.

Everyday is MINE.... to surf, paddle, play golf or just lay about making videos.

Safety net? NONE
Do I care? HELL no!

Why?

Cuz I know, that right NOW...
I can still surf
I can still paddle
I can still play golf.

Tomorrow?
No guarantee on that.

Every day...
you are a little bit less than yesterday.

If my shit hits the fan, I will figure it out, or not....
but today is mine.

Some of my friends are dying. Most almost had enough to retire.

My world may look small.... but right now, it's pretty sweet!

Rick, it was so great visiting you this summer.  You're an example of how to LIVE life.  Yes, you're on a budget, and you make compromises, but you have a love of life that many people lack.  And your world is not small....in fact, it seems much larger than many people's.

I  consider  myself  successfully  retired , after a rough  start. I  spent  most  of  my  career  in computer  science , programming , analysis , project  management , etc .  mostly  I  worked  as an  independent  contractor  and the  last  5 years  as an employee  for  a  mortgage  broker. Not the  best  position  to have  during  the  financial  crisis  of   2008. I  was  61 years  old  when  they  turned  the  lights  out of the  company  I  worked  for .

Since  I  mostly  worked  independently , I  invested in 401Ks, but when  the  stock  market  dropped  so did  my retirement  savings .  What  really  saved  me  was  being  debt free . Things  were  tough ,  but  I  didn't  lose  anything  because  I  didn't  owe anything .  Stocks  came  back  and so did  my real estate .

My parents  grew  up  during  the  depression  and  I  guess  they  instilled  in  me to not  buy  anything  I  can't  pay for .  Foe example  I   always  bought  newish  used  cars  and keep  them  forever .

Quote from: Tom on October 30, 2017, 10:06:51 PM
My parents  grew  up  during  the  depression  and  I  guess  they  instilled  in  me to not  buy  anything  I  can't  pay for .  Foe example  I   always  bought  newish  used  cars  and keep  them  forever .

Same here. I've paid cash for virtually everything I've ever bought in my life. Debt and bills scare the heck out of me. So I've lived a very simple life.

Apparently there are three kinds of work. Work for money, work for necessity and work for enjoyment. I've never been able to find enjoyment making money.

I'm very busy. Like Pono, I enjoy working on projects and inventions. I never make any money from them though. Making money seems to take the fun out of it for me.

Home maintenance is a lot of work.  The rest of the time, I'm surfing. That doesn't leave me much time for gainful employment.

My last 40 hour job was in 1996. So I guess I've been semi retired since 39. I didn't plan it that way. It's just the way it is.

It boggles my mind that some people retire from their job and have nothing to do.

I always felt the word 'retirement' was synonymous with checking out so I've never used it.   Everyone I knew growing up who used the term, died shortly after so I've been goofing off since the get go.  You hafta practice for this stuff.

From Pono Bill's post/ "I never had retirement as a goal. Other than saving for it, I never planned on it. I pretty much assumed I'd fall in the traces." 

Meriweather Lewis wrote that the plains indians would tell their elderly when they weren't able to keep up with the hunt or nomadic travel. "You've lived long enough.  It's time for you to die."  In 1805 there were no retirement accounts, social security, or warm and fuzzy hospice groups to take you to the river.  Most of us on this forum would  have been cast to the howling wolves long ago.

Quote from: Badger on October 30, 2017, 11:38:01 PM

Quote from: Tom on October 30, 2017, 10:06:51 PM
My parents  grew  up  during  the  depression  and  I  guess  they  instilled  in  me to not  buy  anything  I  can't  pay for .  Foe example  I   always  bought  newish  used  cars  and keep  them  forever .

Same here. I've paid cash for virtually everything I've ever bought in my life. Debt and bills scare the heck out of me. So I've lived a very simple life.

This.... and my parents taught me to be frugal as well. I saddens me to hear that some feel trapped in their job or that early retirement is 'impossible'. It's possible for the vast majority who make a decent salary (doesn't have to be 6-figures). You just have to make cut-throat decisions on how you spend your money. Ditch the huge house that wastes money. And no new cars. Houses and cars are where American flush their money down the toilet

I drove a $4000 Ford Focus Station wagon for 10 years when I was making a very handsome salary. My friends laughed at me but now I'm semi-retired at 47 and laughing at them. First off, it got 32mpg, so I was wasting less $$ on fuel than them. And it carried my SUPs like a champ, as well as all my cycling and camping gear. The thing was a rock-star. Bought it for 4k, traded it in 10 years later for $1200. During that time, besides routine maintenance I had to repair one power window and one alternator (probably $700 total). So for $3500 I had a great car for 10 years!  Most middle-class Americans live their entire lives with a $400 car payment per month. In 10 years that's $48,000.  So, 48k versus 3.5k. The math is in my favor. With that 45k that I have leftover invested in the stock market (in index funds), in 10 years at an average of 6%, that becomes 80K.

The recipe is spend way less than you earn, invest the difference in simple index funds, retire early. Ignore the Joneses, ignore consumer-culture, and enjoy what you have. We already have so much more than Americans did even 50 years ago. Hell, I have a magic Star-Trek type phone that talks to space!!!

 I'm healthy (thank you universe) and 55, but one never knows when one's number may be up... so I try to strike a balance between saving for the future on the one hand and, on the other,  living for the moment. As a result I don't spend "way less than I earn", but I do spend on life experience. Hopefully it all works out...

Agree with comments above about some folks taking retirement to the extreme of taking on mentality of doing nothing i.e., "watch the grass grow".   Leads to inactivity of body and mind and a quick path to the great dirt nap.  Doubtful any of those types here given this crazy SUP passion most/a'' have here.  Never any reason to be idle unless recovering from something.  I retired two years ago at age 54 after 30 years of commissioned service.  Since then I've been working as a federal contractor doing a lot of what I was doing before the uniform was hung up and the only reason I do it is because I love what I do.  Of course, being on a contract is pretty much year to year and it all could/will end at some point.  I figure when it does then I'll likely not work any longer and we'll tighten up a bit and just live off my military retirement.   For now, its all good....I can pretty much SUP whenever I like or whatever I desire in short 1-3 hour bursts and still keep up with work by keeping flexible with my workday.  All good...blessed!

Quote from: starman on October 30, 2017, 03:27:25 PM

QuoteAfter rent, utilities and car insurance
I have $100 per week to live on.

That includes food, gas, clothing, auto repair, travel, entertainment....
everything comes out of that $100

Well that is quite a remarkable feat of budgeting Rick considering there are millions of others in America in the same boat one would think you could improve your income by sharing your budget skills. Living on $14.28 a day with all the amenities you describe is incredible. (Actually it's $13.10 a day if one deducts your yearly golf fees.)

What do you do for health insurance? Is that included in the budget? What's the plan when the body gives out considering you have no backup besides SSI?

You are correct, math doesn't lie.... it ain't much.
Meals can't cost $5 or there's no gas.
I try to eat only grass fed, organic, free range, healthy food.. no rice, pasta, potatoes or beans for bulk.... so it's a challenge.
Shopping becomes an artform.... as are all the choices I make.

At 69, medicare pays for my "Tufts Health Plan" since I live in a covered zip code.

I am a realist, I understand my body may give out, that's why I don't put anything off till tomorrow.

What do I do if my body breaks? (which I am trying to avoid)
I ain't a'scared.
I never fear the future, my life has taught me that I can deal effectively with any situation that come up. Who knows.....I may find joys in making money again;D

Money has alway been easy for me, that's why I don't sweat that part.
When I had it, I bought houses, Mercedes, designed and built a motor yacht, which I paid for by selling one of my houses. I grabbed my wife of one year, left my business in the hands of employees and took the boat to the islands for 7 months on a surf trip.

When it got boring, we came home and had 2 daughters.... now 24 and 27, both totally self sufficient, living on their own with good jobs. The 2 nicest people I have ever known. I never planned on leaving them anything but the ability to happily and effectively navigate through life....so far, so good.

I get the same joy out of my 2006 Honda Civic (237,000 miles) that I did from my top of the line Mercedes....the view out the front window is the same.

Money surely brings perks..... but life's perks are what I cherish.

I think I need to do a post or a video of what October was like for a poor boy, with zero responsibilities.... you'll all be retiring today  :)


Ps... retiring from responsibility does not mean that you stop moving forward and being productive.... it just means that you engage differently, on terms that put living first.

I have tried to live a balanced life ever since I first heard the story of the gringo and the Mexican fisherman while on a several month long adventure deep in the Baja...
This...and, many more trips to other amazing places in the world over the decades are much more valuable and much more memorable than trips to the bank...never wanted to be the richest buried man in the graveyard...;-)

Not that we haven't been in some pretty intense situations during those travels...that's why they call it adventure...but, we always managed to live to surf another day...and, had plenty of material to draw from when it comes time to talk story around the campfire...all of this rings even truer today, 4 weeks after literally dodging hundreds of bullets in the desert city of Las Vegas...

http://blog.surfingsports.com/2010/01/gringo-and-fisherman.html

The Gringo and the Mexican Fisherman

An American consultant was at the pier of a small coastal Mexican village when a small boat with just one fisherman docked. Inside the small boat were several large yellowfin tuna. The American complimented the Mexican on the quality of his fish and asked how long it took to catch them.

The Mexican replied, "Only a little while."

The American then asked why didn't he stay out longer and catch more fish?

The Mexican said he had enough to support his family's immediate needs.

The American then asked, "But what do you do with the rest of your time?"

The Mexican fisherman said, "I sleep late, fish a little, play with my children, take siesta with my wife, Maria, stroll into the village each evening where I sip wine and play guitar with my amigos, I have a full and busy life, senor."

The American scoffed, "I am a Harvard graduate and could help you. You should spend more time fishing and with the proceeds, buy a bigger boat with the proceeds from the bigger boat you could buy several boats eventually you would have a fleet of fishing boats. Instead of selling your catch to a middleman you would sell directly to the processor, eventually opening your own cannery. You would control the product, processing and distribution. You would need to leave this small coastal fishing village and move to Mexico City, then LA and eventually NYC where you will run your expanding enterprise."

The Mexican fisherman asked, "But señor, how long will this all take?"

To which the American replied, "15-20 years."

"But what then, señor?"

The American laughed and said, That's the best part. When the time is right you would announce an IPO and sell your company stock to the public and become very rich, you would make millions."

"Millions, señor? Then what?"

The American said, "Then you would retire. Move to a small coastal fishing village where you would sleep late, fish a little, play with your kids, take siesta with your wife, stroll to the village in the evenings where you could sip wine and play your guitar with your amigos."

Thanks for posting that Sup Sports, I heard that story when I was in my 20's and it resonated with me. Life isn't about money and stuff, those are tools. Once you reach the necessities and some creature comforts (sup boards :), learn to love them and be content with them. Then the rest of the money you earn goes to investing. And it will buy you the most important thing - your freedom. Freedom from mandatory work.

Gold in this thread:
Live within your means.
Enjoy what you are doing everyday.
Retirement is just another stage of life that you need to enjoy and live within your means.
You don't know how long you've got left.
Cherish the moment (and thank God SUP is here to enjoy in it's current refined state of being).

I can't believe how lucky I am that my wife and both kids really enjoy sup surfing, as do nieces and nephews, kids boyfriends and girlfriends and other extended family members.  As Mrs. Slatch and I waited for the next set at San O this weekend in warm glassy 2-3' surf, I had one of those "man, life is really good" moments.  If you can have those every now and then, it doesn't matter what station you're at in life.

Quote from: SlatchJim on October 31, 2017, 08:34:09 AM
Gold in this thread:

How true.

SUP Sports and headmounts post reminded me of this.
Good for you Warren and esskay1000 to have the wisdom at that age to realize the truth in that story.
A little off topic but in the same vein. I might have posted it before.

Indian Chief "Two Eagles" was asked by a white U.S. Government
official, "You have observed the white man for 90 years . You've seen
his wars and his technological advances. You've seen his progress, and the
damage he's done."
The Chief nodded in agreement.

The official continued, "Considering all these events, in your
opinion, where did the white man go wrong?"
The Chief stared at the government official for over a minute and then
calmly replied:

"When white man find land, Indians running it, no taxes, no debt,
plenty buffalo, plenty beaver, clean water. Women did all the work, Medicine man
free. Indian man spend all day hunting and fishing; All night having sex.'

Then the chief leaned back and smiled "Only white man dumb enough to
think he could improve system like that."

Quote from: headmount on October 30, 2017, 11:55:33 PM
Meriweather Lewis wrote that the plains indians would tell their elderly when they weren't able to keep up with the hunt or nomadic travel. "You've lived long enough.  It's time for you to die."  In 1805 there were no retirement accounts, social security, or warm and fuzzy hospice groups to take you to the river.  Most of us on this forum would  have been cast to the howling wolves long ago.

Great take, which makes me think that we are very lucky to be living with today's medicine.  That needs to be appreciated big time, it is lengthening our sessions in life.
About 6-7 years ago, at 60 years old, I had to have carpel tunnel syndrome corrective surgery, my hands became worthless, all strength lost.
If that surgery wasn't available, I would have had the productive worth of a door stop, my health would have deteriorated rapidly due to a sedimentary life style combined with probable depression, and I could have entered my endless sleep by now, or at least be very close to it.  Whenever I think of that, it sends shivers down my spine.
I'll bet many people died prematurely due to that most basic condition brought on by overworking the wrists and hands.
Retirement?  What's that.

The reason I wrote my retirement book wasn't really all the financial advisor shenanigans I discovered when I started paying attention (though it certainly got my attention) but rather the realization that few people are ready for thirty years of unemployment. Being old, sick and broke doesn't look like fun. When the notion of retirement first took root in the US the average lifespan for men was 62.7 years. Plans designed for that lifespan don't work well when you live to be 90.

I'd be dead or a cripple if it wasn't for modern medicine. Destroyed shoulders, carpal tunnel syndrome, torn knee meniscus, contracted hip joint, and conditions that aimed straight at an early dirt nap on two occasions. But we can't count on modern medicine to cure all our ills. The medicine we all take--fun and exercise--is what will make whatever time we have worthwhile and enjoyable. If I had to shuffle around in a walker or be rolled around in a bed to help the sores, I'd still have all the whacky shit I have going on in my head. I don't pretend I'd want the light turned out if everything didn't fit my current expectations. But I plan to enjoy it all to the fullest.

Quote from: PonoBill on October 31, 2017, 10:38:04 AM
The reason I wrote my retirement book wasn't really all the financial advisor shenanigans I discovered when I started paying attention (though it certainly got my attention) but rather the realization that few people are ready for thirty years of unemployment.

Ha, good point. That's another reason why early "retirement" is actually the best path. I have retirement in quotes because by my definition here I mean from the job that you would not choose to do on any/every given day. When you early-retire, you can keep practicing that woodworking hobby you never got around to in your wage-slave days. Then all of a sudden as you're getting better, your neighbor comes over and says "wow that's a cool end table you made there, think you could make me one? I'd pay you for it...."

Next thing you know your "hobby" becomes a small "job". One that you love. Maybe you get on Etsy and expand it, maybe not, whatever.  Without the time needed to get better because of your wage-slave job, you can't get better at woodworking. For myself, I plan to get my guitar chops back up to snuff and get in a gigging band. I used to be in bands, but then life took over, I didn't have the time, and my skills atrophied. Now I'm gonna take them back. And when I'm in a gigging band, that extra $500 or so a month playing a few weekend gigs will be one of my "jobs". And trust me, I will LOVE my jobs! Early retirement buys me the freedom to build the skills I want to do the work I want.

So "retirement" is what you make it. I call it retirement from a mandatory wage-slave job to whatever I wanna do. And if those things bring some money in, well then that's great too. Work will be glorious!

I'm 52 and could retire comfortably at 55. I fear retirement will lead to divorce as my my marriage works best when we are together only a few hours after work. When we are together 24/7, we find ridiculous reasons to bicker. Yes, dysfunctional it is, but that's my reality. Work is a great place for me to maintain relationships with people that I've known for 28 years and of course, to feel useful and needed.
I purchased a night light for my SUP, so as the days get shorter, I still plan to paddle after work.

Quote from: LB Surper on October 31, 2017, 12:37:14 PM
I'm 52 and could retire comfortably at 55. I fear retirement will lead to divorce as my my marriage works best when we are together only a few hours after work.

Surfing is the perfect solution.  Gone from 6am-3pm (assuming you start with a long coffee to assess the conditions and go for a beer & burrito between sessions!)   ;)

I retired at 66 last year. I worked in tv production for a long time, my last job had an unmatched 401k plan. Which was perfect for me because the money was invested automatically ( before my paycheck).  I bought a little house in a little fishing village in Mexico ( La Ventana ). The people are wonderful, the food is great. I'm 500 m from the sea, I'm down there every morning at sunrise paddling sup or my SurfSki. I couldn't be happier.

Quote from: LB Surper on October 31, 2017, 12:37:14 PM
I'm 52 and could retire comfortably at 55. I fear retirement will lead to divorce as my my marriage works best when we are together only a few hours after work. When we are together 24/7, we find ridiculous reasons to bicker. Yes, dysfunctional it is, but that's my reality. Work is a great place for me to maintain relationships with people that I've known for 28 years and of course, to feel useful and needed.

Women don't like it when slave drones are no longer tied to the plow.  It registers offense to them that you aren't killing yourself dragging home provender.  Also, it is a lot easier to kiss her ass a couple of hours a week rather than 24/7.

;D ;D ;D

Quote from: SUPcheat on October 31, 2017, 04:19:04 PM

Quote from: LB Surper on October 31, 2017, 12:37:14 PM
I'm 52 and could retire comfortably at 55. I fear retirement will lead to divorce as my my marriage works best when we are together only a few hours after work. When we are together 24/7, we find ridiculous reasons to bicker. Yes, dysfunctional it is, but that's my reality. Work is a great place for me to maintain relationships with people that I've known for 28 years and of course, to feel useful and needed.

Women don't like it when slave drones are no longer tied to the plow.  It registers offense to them that you aren't killing yourself dragging home provender.  Also, it is a lot easier to kiss her ass a couple of hours a week rather than 24/7.

;D ;D ;D

No truer words were spoken. A couple of hours is about all I can take.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Such great responses!!!!

"It comes down to a simple choice, get busy living or get busy dying" Andy Dufresne, Shawshank Redemption


I am inching toward retirement. Having taken up sup surfing (having never surfed) in my 50's that simple quote from Shawshank has been a mantra taking all of the beatings learning how to. Now that I take a lot less beatings and actual surf a wave top to bottom I look forward to retirement and surfing whenever there is a wave or traveling to surf spots. But I have to say...surfing has definitely sped up my process. Here's the plan


1. Fill out the quiver (two years to find the best boards for me stability and performance) Let the search begin.
2. Get more comfortable overhead (definitely getting there.)
3. Put a couple Kenalu's on  the shelf
4. Add some wetsuit stock (I only by on sale)
5. Keep my better half working
6. Once the stable is complete...time to get busy living!!!!!! !


At 53, I figure if I can get a good 15  to 20 more years plus of surfing and grandparenting, I've done pretty good!!!!

i have always aspired to work by choice, not because i need the money

fortunately i generally enjoy my work, and i may well enjoy it more knowing that i am at a point where i could walk away and live out my days comfortably

in spite of a few "change or die" moments, given ive had this business since 1996, there is liitle reason to think it wont be viable for many years into the future

sadly it doesnt fit into the "fishing fleet" scenario and cant be sold (for reasons too boring to get into)

so i will milk it, and become more and more passive in running it over time, allowing my partner to take over completely, bit by bit

and i dont have a particularly grand, expensive life, but i live just fine

i feel very lucky--have too many friends my age (58) who are trapped and unhappy

I had assumed my own situation to be pretty safe until last spring. My own position at my school was under attack by a new administration that decided I wasn't right for the school anymore. (After lots of positive media coverage for my programs and 12 years. Go figure.) After a withering campaign against me, I was reduced to a part-time employee. It was stressful to the extreme. I briefly had a nervous breakdown, and it's clear I'm not wanted anymore at my school.

Job hunting hasn't worked well. I've gotten some very near misses for jobs, so I know something will come eventually, but my salary will surely go down considerably. It already has with the reduction in hours, and it's not going back up anytime soon.

I don't want even to teach much anymore. I don't know if it's just my situation, or it's combined with the public attacks on teachers and public education over the last decade or so. I'm burnt out. There's little joy in sharing my love with kids these days.

This has been a tough year. My son had to go to a mental hospital for a couple of weeks a while back. My daughter's been having serious social issues and might be diagnosed with mild autism. Then there was this shit with me. I have to stay within the system to get my pension. I've got 15 years in, and I need 20 to get something significant. After that, I don't know. This is one of those strange times in my life where things seem up in the air. At least if I get another job in New York State public education, I'm still contributing to my pension even if my salary is reduced. I would love to retire and get my pension. At 20 years I'd be 55, and that's not a terrible place to move on.

Sorry to hear Ichabod. Hang in there. Your kids are precious, and they are all different. As you well know, the social thing is really brutal for teens and pre-teens. My kids are in music, and there are quite a few mildly autistic kids in music. They all do great and find their social niche. In my opinion, don't hide or try to 'Home School' protect them. All kids, no matter what perceived deficit someone thinks they have, need to realize life is not fair. They need to experience independence away from their parents.
As far as a job goes, I'd look at it like an opportunity for a positive change. A friend of mine was a high school science teacher. He hated the babysitting. He started a landscaping company and did that for 15 years. When the economy bottomed out, he went back to teaching. He loves it now. I say keep your part time teaching gig, and experience something completely different. Maybe something with the city?
I've been self-employed my entire life, so I'm out of a job with every project I finish. Some are a year long, some are a week long. There are gaps, but somehow the phone has always rang and a new opportunity has presented itself.     

Quote from: Ichabod Spoonbill on November 01, 2017, 08:12:06 AM
I had assumed my own situation to be pretty safe until last spring. My own position at my school was under attack by a new administration that decided I wasn't right for the school anymore. (After lots of positive media coverage for my programs and 12 years. Go figure.) After a withering campaign against me, I was reduced to a part-time employee. It was stressful to the extreme. I briefly had a nervous breakdown, and it's clear I'm not wanted anymore at my school.

Job hunting hasn't worked well. I've gotten some very near misses for jobs, so I know something will come eventually, but my salary will surely go down considerably. It already has with the reduction in hours, and it's not going back up anytime soon.

I don't want even to teach much anymore. I don't know if it's just my situation, or it's combined with the public attacks on teachers and public education over the last decade or so. I'm burnt out. There's little joy in sharing my love with kids these days.

This has been a tough year. My son had to go to a mental hospital for a couple of weeks a while back. My daughter's been having serious social issues and might be diagnosed with mild autism. Then there was this shit with me. I have to stay within the system to get my pension. I've got 15 years in, and I need 20 to get something significant. After that, I don't know. This is one of those strange times in my life where things seem up in the air. At least if I get another job in New York State public education, I'm still contributing to my pension even if my salary is reduced. I would love to retire and get my pension. At 20 years I'd be 55, and that's not a terrible place to move on.

Dude, you got more than your share of bad stuff.  Thoughts and prayers are with you. 

Sorry to hear all that Ichabod. I have a different view on autism and neurological differences than some folks might. With all my social and behavioural oddities I'm not just sympathetic, I consider them to be normal, since it's normal for me. I wonder what's wrong with all the rest of you. Your daughter can and will learn to fake social connections. all the autistic, asperger, ADD, etc. people I know (I know LOTS of them) do just fine. Most are very successful by any measure. They don't get distracted by social bullshit, and faking the lightweight social stuff is easy and takes little time. There are many people who think I'm an extrovert, which is simply hilarious. My friends know better, and they all know I'm a little nuts.

Your success in your job was probably a threat to the new administrator. In the advertising business a new VP of advertising meant the client was going away, and the better our performance was, the faster that happened. It's hard to believe people are that petty, but people who want to be administrators, want the job for the control, and control means success has to be attributed to the administrator. Legacy relationships are a liability. Every VP of Sales I ever hired wanted to fire my most successful salespeople. I fired them instead.

Sounds like it's time for a career change, though you're probably interested in keeping that pension. But looking forward you should realize that some pensions may not be funded. Ditching teachers near retirement is likely to be a popular tactic that lies just short of default.

While you're dealing with all of this understand that most opportunities come from traumatic change. Literally everyone I know who has been financially successful later in life went through turmoil. Look for opportunity, and persist.

Thanks everyone. I didn't mean to whine. It just kind of came out.

Bill, you've got some great points. I think my girl will be fine. She's super-sensitive but smart and has a beautiful singing voice. She's going through some rough spots which wouldn't be so rough if all this other BS wasn't happening.

I'm definitely thinking about moving into another career. It might be a gradual slide rather than an abrupt jump. My idea which I was talking to Creek about a while ago was to create a non-profit get-people-in-the-water organization. The Hudson is underused as far as watersports go. There's the legacy of the pollution and fear of the river. I'd like to start an non-profit that got people in the water: SUP, swimming lessons, kayaking, small sailboats. My town has a beautiful but underutilized waterfront. They even built a small boat launch which nobody uses but me! We have lots of kids who because of their income might never get a chance to get on the water. I was thinking that I could create a place for lessons, boat storage, club meets, summer camps, expeditions. It's a dream right now, but at least it's keeping me from going crazy.

Right now I've got to find some place where I can feel comfortable. Something's going to come up. I don't know when, but I've got to do some sort of short-term change. Bill's comment about new admin hit it on the head. That's the deal. These people loved my accomplishments until the tiniest problem happened. And problems always happen, because schools are sloppy places. Then they tried to break me, and to be honest they kinda did. I had one morning where I was crying in my wife's arms. I was a mess. I was on medication. I was rushed to a therapist because I was feeling like self harming.

Things are a little better, only because they've pretty much done their worst to me, but I'm still subject to regular humiliation. It's pretty demoralizing. SUP makes me feel better though. It's my happy space. I still paddle whenever I can, do my SUP Examiner articles, and just correspond with my SUP buddies. That's you guys. I feel better doing that.

Sorry to hear/read the rough patch Spoonman.  Keep your head up.....something good will definitely come of it!!

Quote from: PonoBill on November 01, 2017, 12:12:14 PM
While you're dealing with all of this understand that most opportunities come from traumatic change.

Hey Ichabod,

Really sorry to hear what you're going through. That's tough. Just wanted to echo what Pono Bill said. Neither my wife or I have gone through anything like you're experiencing, but we both lost jobs at different points in our lives and came out the better for it.

I had only been married for about a year when they announced the closure of the plant where I'd been working for 19 years. It didn't really come as a shock as we had been expecting it at some point, but still, being in a new marriage you really don't want to be out of a job. I got another much better job, and didn't miss a beat. Was actually a positive step forward for me. In fact, the plant closure gave me the push I needed to go and do what I had wanted to do.

My wife's job loss came later. We were about 3 or 4 years away from retirement when her company did away with her job. We had all our retirement plans pretty well set and this threw a real curve at us. Well, once again, not only did she land on her feet, she got a better job with better pay and way less stress. It turned out to be the best thing that happened to her and it didn't adversely affect our retirement plans. We retired in the same time frame we had planned and with the same or even a bit more money.

I know these situations aren't the same as yours, but sometimes when you're "mired in the muck", you just can't see any way out. I just wanted to let you know that sometimes there is something waiting just around the corner for you, that you couldn't possibly have foreseen.

All the best to you.

Icky.... You are a very likeable guy with a nice vibe about you. I always enjoy my time with you. That likability will help you.

Just because the world is trying to eat you... doesn't mean you have to let them.
The only thing that matters is: what comes next? (and something will)

When my world crashed, I made every decision and took every action with only ONE thought in mind:
"What will this teach my kids?"
It's a great way to stay positive and make good decisions.

You always come out of these "down times" with a wealth of knowledge and bolstered self-esteem.

And your kids come out of it, better prepared for life, than if everything went along smoothly.

I know it's a bit cliche, but the 10/10/10 rule can sometimes help with perspective on both small and large decisions.

What will the consequence be in 10 minutes? 10 months? 10 years?

- Should I initiate a divorce? <--- this isn't one of mine, but the rule might help with big decisions like this.

- Should I stay late at work tonight and skip my kid's hockey game? <--- in my earlier career, the 10/10/10 rule would say work. I'm at a point now, where it almost always says go to the game.....just different circumstances now.

- Should I retire a few years early and forgo some of my pension? <--- Pension?  Not a thing in my future. I'll never face this question.  But I will have similar decisions about money vs time.

- Should I spend an extra $400 on the board I really want or go for the cheaper one that will be just OK? <--- In 10 minutes I'll stress on the money and feel a bit guilty. In 10 months, I probably won't really notice having $400 less (but might still a bit), but I might really enjoy the new board and really appreciate the experience more than if I settled for the cheaper board. In 10 years, I won't know the difference in the money at all, but might have surfed more because of the added stoke on the board I really liked (maybe I'm a better surfer now because of it).

- Should I book a ticket to go surf with the East Coast crew next year? <--- the answer is most certainly yes!  In 10 minutes, I'll have a bit of a tail-between-my-legs proposal for my wife. "Honey, I'm going to be taking off for a week next year...you OK with the kids?"  In 10 months, I'll be frothing preparing to leave.  In 10 years, I'll hopefully have memories of friends made, good waves, and my first barrel. 

Quote from: surfafrica on November 01, 2017, 06:20:34 PM
- Should I book a ticket to go surf with the East Coast crew next year? <--- the answer is most certainly yes!  In 10 minutes, I'll have a bit of a tail-between-my-legs proposal for my wife. "Honey, I'm going to be taking off for a week next year...you OK with the kids?"  In 10 months, I'll be frothing preparing to leave.  In 10 years, I'll hopefully have memories of friends made, good waves, and my first barrel.

Well, I got through that first 10 minutes.  I brought this up with my wife over dinner and got the green light for Sept 2018.  Now I just need to keep my body off the injury list!

 
[/quote]

Well, I got through that first 10 minutes.  I brought this up with my wife over dinner and got the green light for Sept 2018.  Now I just need to keep my body off the injury list!
[/quote]

Maybe she just doubled the payout on your life insurance policy.

damn when the shit hits my fan, im coming here--some good advice and compassion here--nice to see

icky--you are clearly a decent, thoughtful guy---pb's likely correct that your qualities qualified you as a threat, but it seems that die is cast--so you move on--hope you can get another nys teaching job--sad is that you took pride in and enjoyed teaching (til ahole decided to eff your world)--our public school system needs committed teachers, who withstand the upstream swim it often is--so my hope is for yuou and yours--but also for students you reaqch and moptivate

kids--mine have both had serious depression at times--my steps have had anxiety, and my genius stepson has had spectrum-like tendencies which have abated, but continually has anxiety issues--point is, intelligence, love, and thoughtful parenting does bear good fruit---knock wood--all of mine are well, after plenty of trials--yours will be too

i was surprised that youd snapped at your kid recently--so not you--and that you were upset about it reinforces that it isnt you--the shit youre going through makes it totally understandable--dont let this change you, and you and yours will be just fine

decent shit happens to decent people--takes a while, sometimes--be patient--keep being you--and hold your head as high as ever

i dont pray--and wouldnt know which god to approach were i to--but youre in my thoughts--and i do believe in the power of positive thinking--which includes prayers--so youve got many here rooting for you--best luck

Ichabod, and others at a decision point.  Don't fear the reaper. The good stuff grows in quickly.

After 12 years at a consulting job with a imbalance of state contracts to private ones, I was let go, along with a host of very qualified engineers and other scientists.  When the state decides to "not pay their invoices" because they can... you get screwed, and it's not like any of us had the power to alter that decision. 

Landed in a hazardous materials cleanup company as their only Geologist, and now, their only Vice President.  I'd have to marry into the family that owns the company to go any higher, and that's not an option  ;D. It's way different work, with a far less educated group of employees, but they're not without traits you love and value.  It was like going from mostly office work into a company that Mike Rowe would visit.  But, just like "Dirty Jobs," there is a wisdom and calling to the business, and a feeling of accomplishment at the end of a job. The work never stops flowing. (Side Note: Demand for this type of worker is pretty high nation wide, and with a 40 hour class on Hazardous Waste Operations, you too can be deemed "qualified.")  After my first year I received easily the largest raise of my life, after going 7 years without one.

Sure results vary with this type of career change, but you'll never find out until you try.  As I told my son a while ago, the pool of drug free, reasonably intelligent, hard working, likable and dependable employees is shrinking fast.  There surely is a job out there for everyone with those qualifications.  :)

Sorry to hear about your stuff ISpoonbill. My wife works as a school counselor so I hear a lot about nasty admin and nasty teachers. She also tells me a lot about the autism spectrum and the stuff that comes with it. She has told me that unequivocally the parents who put in most effort to help their kids with whatever social or mental issues they have, usually turn out great kids. I'm sure your kids will be great. As a matter of fact she firmly believes that parents who work hard on only 3 things: food-sleep-exercise (limit electronics) mitigate 90% of their kids problems. I'm not talking to Spoonbill directly on that point but in general.

The job market is moving very quickly right now. I wrote earlier in this thread that I am in the process of swallowing 2 companies. I had a meeting on Tuesday with one firm and right when we sat down another guy I have never met sat down with us and told me he wanted to buy both companies plus my survey company.

It was a set up. It was shocking. I love my little firms with the flexibility of being an owner, and putting them under another corporation is a big step. I will probably not take the deal, but my partner would love to be flushed out, so there is going to be some hard conversations coming my way these next few weeks.

That would completely upset my retirement plan, in that I wanted to sell out closer to retirement, not now.

Quote from: Ichabod Spoonbill on November 01, 2017, 02:08:29 PM
I'm definitely thinking about moving into another career. It might be a gradual slide rather than an abrupt jump. My idea which I was talking to Creek about a while ago was to create a non-profit get-people-in-the-water organization. The Hudson is underused as far as watersports go. There's the legacy of the pollution and fear of the river. I'd like to start an non-profit that got people in the water: SUP, swimming lessons, kayaking, small sailboats. My town has a beautiful but underutilized waterfront. They even built a small boat launch which nobody uses but me! We have lots of kids who because of their income might never get a chance to get on the water. I was thinking that I could create a place for lessons, boat storage, club meets, summer camps, expeditions. It's a dream right now, but at least it's keeping me from going crazy.

Can't really say anything better than what has been said but I will say it in a different way even tho it's way too cliche......

It's not a door closing on you, it's one opening for you.

One of the things I have been doing is buying and selling domain names. Started out pretty good which caught me off guard but as soon as I started putting real effort or promotion into it, it kind of stalled. Go figure.
Anyways......I went and checked on a couple names. Some were taken already...some not. I might have a good match for you there. Available in .com and .org.
Perhaps you can start on your idea with a website blog of some sort?
I can pass the names on to you and you can reg them if you like them. I liked them well enough I almost just went and did it. Doesn't mean you will like them or they are any good for what you want to do. Another option is I can pass the names on to you and if you like, I can reg them, point them to my hosting and let you get them/it up and running. That's pretty simple I have found out and we can transfer them to you in a short while.
I think it's better if you registered them but if you not set up to do that we can do the other.
I will pm you the names now.
Regardless, good thoughts your way and good luck to you.

Hey guys, I really appreciate all the good words. I hadn't meant to spew all all that stuff, but your responses made me fell better. I showed them to my wife too.

All of them !?!  :o
If she could get thru that, then she's a keeper.

Quote from: SUP Leave on November 02, 2017, 11:20:04 AM
The job market is moving very quickly right now. I wrote earlier in this thread that I am in the process of swallowing 2 companies. I had a meeting on Tuesday with one firm and right when we sat down another guy I have never met sat down with us and told me he wanted to buy both companies plus my survey company.

It was a set up. It was shocking. I love my little firms with the flexibility of being an owner, and putting them under another corporation is a big step. I will probably not take the deal, but my partner would love to be flushed out, so there is going to be some hard conversations coming my way these next few weeks.

That would completely upset my retirement plan, in that I wanted to sell out closer to retirement, not now.

If there are enough zeros you can just retire now. It's also a lot easier to buy out a partner than you might think. If there's current interest in the combination of the firms by a company with bigger pockets you could certainly negotiate an earn-out based on you running all three companies for the timeframe you prefer. Then knock it out of the park for your earn-out and take it to the bank. If you choose, you could then continue running the companies for a fat salary and bonuses. Only idiots would ditch a solid earner, and you wouldn't want to work for idiots.  If the Republican tax plan flies (can shit fly?) it will be easy to show big numbers in any plan that doesn't recognize a 20 percent corporate tax as a gimme. In other words, don't base it on EBIT, base it on after-tax profit.

The job market is insane right now. If I were starting over I'd be an electrician specializing in solar and build a big solar company--ripe for buyout at silly multiples. The tech is getting great, the market is growing fast, and the spread of equipment that can be installed at silly benefit for both the installer and the customer is almost exponential. I think individual homeowners will be the largest utility supplier of electricity (considered as a category) in the USA in 20 years. Smartgrids can benefit anyone in the chain.

But hell, Ichabod, you could paint houses and get all the work you need at probably double your current salary. I looked at it for grins and determined I could easily make $200K a year. The next time someone rants about immigration I'm going to kick them in the shins. We've waited two years to get our gutters fixed. Still no dice. 1.5 years to get the house painted. At least they did the trim this year and pressure washed the house--for three grand--two people, four days, charging less per hour than I would have squawked about. That's $90K a year, and while the painters we use are super-pro (100% brush painting), they are inefficient. All they had time for. The painters haven't had the time to come back and pick up their extra scaffolding. 

Wow thanks so much PBill. That is some solid data, and of course you are right, if it works I will run all 3.

I also agree with your statements on the market for skilled labor (and the inability to manage it). I have a brother in law who is an A+ flatwork mason. Can do crazy beautiful concrete work with colors, and stamps, and inlays, and so on. Has no ability to plan 1 day ahead, let alone a week. I have run some numbers and figure I could make $50k a year just running him and his partner from job to job, without ever doing much work other than quotes and billing.

Speaking of gutters - I also have a buddy/client who bought a gutter machine (it rolls out gutters custom lengths) that he tows behind a truck. He told me it is the easiest business he has ever taken part in. Client calls, measure length of gutter needed installed, quote by the foot, install, get paid, on to the next. He was a general contractor mostly doing custom homes, but he told me after the next 2 big houses he is going to cash in on 2 more gutter crews and rigs and ride it out.

Your advice regarding future careers is a great one. I sit on the curriculum/planning committee for a local high school STEM program and I offend some of my fellow engineers with my disdain for degrees from Universities -  but our job is to help kids get careers and technical training is the answer.

Honestly, I consider a degree these days as being less than worthless unless you're in the one percent of engineers, scientists, doctors, and such--and willing to suck every grain of information from courses that tend to plod at a pace slower than those elite few could maintain. Even in that far end of the bell curve, there are those that use their talents to cruise--they are the doctors you don't want. Knowledge is where the power is, and you don't get it plodding though a curriculum that wastes study time, concentration and effort on random shit. For most students school is less than 40 hours per week including self study.  Six months in school, six off. 1042 hours per year for four years and half of it is on bullshit. Best case, what does 4000 hours of relatively unfocused study at a cost of ranging from $60K to 330K gain students? Not much from what I've seen. I don't know, a good time? Social contacts?

Convert those 4 years into concentrated study and practice and you can easily top 10,000 hours of experience. Hell, just don't piss off that six months per year and youre at 8,000. Forget the piece of paper, do Khan academy and online Stanford, MIT, whatever.  Learn a real skill, work in a real business, grab every opportunity to learn. It's hard, and it's very easy. I compare modern college effort and results to Nuclear Power School where the navy had one year to convert unfocused dropouts into capable technicians with a deep enough understanding of what goes on under the covers to be able to respond to emergencies and problems they've never practiced on. Drinking from a firehose, 12 hours a day, six days a week, and more if you fell behind. Outstanding results, and most of the people I've known who went through it excelled in anything they chose after that.

Quote from: PonoBill on November 03, 2017, 10:04:54 AM


But hell, Ichabod, you could paint houses and get all the work you need at probably double your current salary. I looked at it for grins and determined I could easily make $200K a year. The next time someone rants about immigration I'm going to kick them in the shins. We've waited two years to get our gutters fixed. Still no dice. 1.5 years to get the house painted. At least they did the trim this year and pressure washed the house--for three grand--two people, four days, charging less per hour than I would have squawked about. That's $90K a year, and while the painters we use are super-pro (100% brush painting), they are inefficient. All they had time for. The painters haven't had the time to come back and pick up their extra scaffolding.

I have been slowly painting my own23 year old house.  I can hire people, I just don't like dealing with work men.  Also, they come in in a wam, bang, thank you m'am style.  I have been able to pick my restoration and painting battles to what matters and have completed the weather facing parts and critical windows.  Painting windows is hard.

Also, I realized the house was never painted properly to begin with.  "Proper" meaning spackle, sand where necessary, prime and two thin coats of paint.  Mostly, I found areas never painted because they were "wanded" without primer, even though the pros did the second painting. Also, the pros never painted the stuff you couldn't see without a ladder, so I had a lot of work sanding, priming, and re-painting the sun and weather facing surfaces before they went into terminal rot. I got some climbing harnesses and attachments so I could go up high on a ladder and fall off without killing myself.

I have been impressed that the areas I have painted can just be wiped clean, and they look great. I have been doing it for two years and have all the critical areas done.  I think I will continue to finish the windows and the garage door in the sheltered parts, then just hire somebody to do the roof parts and "wand" the larger, non critical surface areas.

My neighbors with the "pro" paint jobs are already looking kind of seedy after a couple of years.

My son just started as an elec EIT right out but did do the coop option.  Worked away for a year and that was the best for him.  Same with his classmates.  Jobs easy and for all.  Google Tesla whatever.  Daughter will get a job in nursing for sure once she grads.  Already has tons of on the job during school.  Super high demand and can go into admin easy later.

Now for painting know someone who tried and made it work for a couple then quit that.  Kinda back to his old admin job.  Another just finished a $30k contract for us and stays mostly in Mex and surfs.  Most elec contr we know do stay busy and have done fine.  But basically can even just cut lawns.  Know that you can buy a couple of houses in very expensive Van by doing that.  So really a lot of options if you really want to work and put high quality effort in.

I kinda had no choice but to leave my post 30 yrs ago -> and in a year and a half starting my own paid off our house and all debts.  So have been semi since.  No real plans to retire as kinda like staying in the loop.  Def stay pos Icha.  Everything should work out ok.  You will no doubt land on your feet like I did.  High qual was key for me.  Peeps love that vs cheap crap. ;)

This is way more important than "retiring" for us.  ;)

Late to the dance on this one...lots of good advice on so many fronts as usual.

I'm almost there....59 planning on 62 or 63 probably. 401k is in good shape, no debt, own a couple homes. Looking forward to it but i also enjoy my job. I'll probably continue doing it in some fashion for awhile. We've talked about doing it in two phases. Semi-retire for a few years, stay in the current house until mid/late 60's working part time. Then fully...sell the current place and buy a cottage on the beach down the street. Summers here....and hit the road and crash on zoners couches in the winter...... ;)

Ian...keep your chin up bro. Coming out from the other side of the dark days makes the sunshine feel so sweet.

The semi retired path fits me fine, but then I'm lucky and love my job. The tempo of the semi gig is light enough that I could keep this up well into my 60's.
It's a shame I'm running into a mandatory retirement wall.

I'm turning 55 next year and on target to hang up my aviation ground pounder work shoes at age 60, and switching over to LOTS more water time in neoprene booties and reef walkers. I still have two daughters in college, but hope to complete that program by 2019 so I will have a couple years to pay down college tuition HELOC debt and retire debt free.  At age 60, I plan on hanging out my shingle as an Independent Contractor to see what that might bring...I like the idea of working when, and where I want in my sixties.

I currently am a Kalifornia resident, but with the onerous tax structure here and liberal nutjobs who make it worse every year, I will change that at age 60. I already have a KALEXIT plan in work...I will become a resident of the State of Washington, which has the Puget Sound, West Coast surf, Olympic National Park, and no State Income Tax. During the "big dark" months in Washington state, I'm going to be a snowbird and fly to Hawaii, Costa Rica, or some other warm region in the Pacific with great surf. When the body wears out, I'm going to pursue passions of photography...and be like my heroes Jimmy Hepp and Aaron Chang. That's my plan and I'm sticking to it!!!   

MAX

"In preparing for battle I have always found that plans are useless, but planning is indispensable."
-- Dwight D. Eisenhower


   

Quote from: maxsonic on November 04, 2017, 01:01:48 PM
I'm turning 55 next year and on target to hang up my aviation ground pounder work shoes at age 60, and switching over to LOTS more water time in neoprene booties and reef walkers. I still have two daughters in college, but hope to complete that program by 2019 so I will have a couple years to pay down college tuition HELOC debt and retire debt free.  At age 60, I plan on hanging out my shingle as an Independent Contractor to see what that might bring...I like the idea of working when, and where I want in my sixties.

I currently am a Kalifornia resident, but with the onerous tax structure here and liberal nutjobs who make it worse every year, I will change that at age 60. I already have a KALEXIT plan in work...I will become a resident of the State of Washington, which has the Puget Sound, West Coast surf, Olympic National Park, and no State Income Tax. During the "big dark" months in Washington state, I'm going to be a snowbird and fly to Hawaii, Costa Rica, or some other warm region in the Pacific with great surf. When the body wears out, I'm going to pursue passions of photography...and be like my heroes Jimmy Hepp and Aaron Chang. That's my plan and I'm sticking to it!!!   

MAX

"In preparing for battle I have always found that plans are useless, but planning is indispensable."
-- Dwight D. Eisenhower


   

Very good plan, I might copy a few points of that one!  I too am getting sick of Kalifornia, but I'm looking toward the east coast.

Good plan Zooport.

I think for surfing Oregon is better than WA. No doubt you can find waves every day of the year here, but Oregon has a more varied coastline.  Then again no state income tax in WA (yet) like you said and plenty to do otherwise. Plus, Oregon Coast is not that far if you want to go for an overnighter or long day.

Wetsuit technology has come so far that really there are no off days if you want to make it work. I don't surf much in the fall/winter but that is only due to the presence of salmon, steelhead, and ducks to shoot (at).

Leaving in the dark of winter is a great idea. I have plenty of friends who do that and all agree that it is the way to go. The last two weeks have been so wet, dark and miserable that even I have complained a bit.

I think the homeless population in Santa Cruz has tripled since I have been here seven and a half years. Drug zombies everywhere now.

I find all the zombie movies/TV as ridiculous, sick, soulless ways of offering endless graphic violence without victims until I look at the spread of opioid dependency in the USA. Then it's all too real.

I just re-read the entire thread and am Bumping:

My wife and I used to say 5 years is infinity. In 5 years you could get divorced, have someone die, lose your job, go bankrupt . . . .

In the last 364 days I had my mother die, inherited my father who could not take care of himself and adopted a friend of my daughters who came from an abusive family situation.  We went from a family of 5, and an empty nest, to a family of 7 with 2 more people living in the house.  We now say 1 year is infinity. 

This thread had great insights but is now 5 years old.  In 2017 foiling was in its infancy, winging had not been invented, TSLA was $65 a share and this was all before COVID and the invasion of Ukraine to name a few things. 

People were talking about 2, 3 and 5 year expectations to retirement (some longer).  Most names were well known Zoners.  Some people have disappeared.

Question:  How is it all turning out? 

59, only due to union rules. Could have kept it going but decided for free time. Six months later the virus hit. Clobbered and still clobbering my old industry.
Dogged the bullit.

I love it, best time of my life. The financial platter requires adjustment. And exceptantes.
But I feel lucky and enjoy all the 'free' stuff.

I just re-read the entire thread and am Bumping (to the top):

My wife and I used to say 5 years is infinity. In 5 years you could get divorced, have someone die, lose your job, go bankrupt . . . .

In the last 364 days I had my mother die, inherited my father who could not take care of himself and adopted a friend of my daughters who came from an abusive family situation.  We went from a family of 5, and an empty nest, to a family of 7 with 2 more people living in the house.  We now say 1 year is infinity. 

This thread had great insights but is now 5 years old.  In 2017 foiling was in its infancy, winging had not been invented, TSLA was $65 a share and this was all before COVID and the invasion of Ukraine to name a few things. 

People were talking about 2, 3 and 5 year expectations to retirement (some longer).  Most names were well known Zoners.  Some people have disappeared.

Question:  How is it all turning out 5 years later?

Beasho sorry about your mom and I admire your taking care of the others who need some help right now.   

AS for me I don't know....
I'm 59 now, and am getting schedules thrown in front of me: Your benefits are $X, $Y or $Z if you retire at 62, 63, or 64.... that sort of thing. All making it a little more real.  So part of my timing decision will be based on that ... when I will personally feel OK with the time/benefit tradeoff. The last red administration was admittedly pretty good for the retirement savings, making me optimistic about actually retiring, but recently that has faded as have the retirement funds. THEN I consider what goes when the job goes ... contributing... the daily problem solving at a level that simply isn't available in private life.  Aren't I supposed to keep the brain working to stave off dementia? THEN I consider those who say they wish they had retired earlier, and they never look back.   I like my job. But I don't like the constant weight of never really being free of the work.  So I'm just going to press on for the next few years until the equation becomes more clear. 

I'm 38 now and if I give up windsports could probably retire at 39. Haha.  Honestly targeting 50 for primary retirement but will likely work 1/2 time until my hands and mind give up since I enjoy my work so much.

I've been retired for more than ten years now. I have no idea how I ever had time to work. I have a modified outlook on Beasho's 5 years is infinity (but yeah, it is) and that is "hell is other people". My wife and I spend an inordinate amount of time and money looking after family, some of whom are squared away and capable, don't need any help from us or anyone, and some of whom are endlessly fucked, either from their own actions (or inactions), or bad luck, or age and disease. We try not to create dependencies, but family is family and if we can and must help, we do.

It's worthwhile to factor that into your retirement plans. Everyone's situation is unique but you can expect both you and your spouse to start having health issues (I'm dealing with Afib and a bum knee, my wife has two bad knees (arthritis) and type one diabetes). Getting older isn't for sissies, but it's not just you, it's everyone around you.

That sounds a lot like boo, hoo, poor me--it's not. I have a great life and I still play hard. But it does seem like once the stress and effort of making a business run are gone a new set of issues takes their place. It makes some sense to prepare yourself for that.

Bill,
My son has the investment bug and I was telling him about your book on retirement.  Sure enough, I clicked the link and got the "fail" screen.  Is there another way to that gem of wisdom.  We want to go over it together and compair what I've done vs his plan (probably not a ton of variation).  We're sharpening the blades of why we work, what we do, and how we choose to live now.  I really enjoyed your "Man-up and take charge" message for people worrying about retirement. 

(PS...I know we don't all frequent the Zone as much as the SUP heyday, so an answer whenever you get a chance is appreciated)

I am interested in reading your book The Retirement Trap  too.
Best I could find is the table of contents:
https://web.archive.org/web/20210811175228/https://retirement.pressbooks.com/ (https://web.archive.org/web/20210811175228/https://retirement.pressbooks.com/)

I retired the month I turned 48. It's been 2 years--I just turned 50. My decision came right as the pandemic was winding down. I had the opportunity to sell my business (after 21 years of hard work) and I realized if I did, and kept my spending in check, I could retire without sacrificing my standard of living. I've been a very disciplined investor since I was 19--nothing exciting, just slow and steady, so that helped too.

My late 30s & 40s were full of injuries and surgeries (15 total), and being so messed up for so long changed my perspective on how I wanted to spend my 50s and beyond. My body is pretty compromised, but I've figured out my boundaries and have accepted them (hard to do). I have to put time in daily for body maintenance--I've become pretty obsessed with it. Zone 2 cardio, strength training, saunas, cold plunges, focused eating, etc. It's helping me participate in some of the things I really enjoy. But it takes time. I don't think I could keep up with it all if I was working. 

So now, I spend my days working on my fitness, enjoying time with my teenage kids, and exploring any wormhole hobby that keeps my mind inspired. I'm rarely, if ever, bored and usually have some sort of "to do" list on the go. I feel privileged to be in this situation and am thankful for it everyday.

I sat with my financial guy just a couple of weeks ago and he asked me this very question.  At age 62, I really don't have a good answer, I like what I do and the people are great.  I suppose there is a certain insecurity and even possibly a fear of missing out in leaving the routine.  How silly is that... 

Jokingly, I feel like I retired at 18 but have occasionally worked the odd job for a little extra cash from time to time.

Seriously, I'm 39 and would argue we're semi retired right now. I'm in the water 150 days a year and could easily work more, play less, to retire sooner, but I like the balance of a little of both and intend to build for as long as I can.

still running my business and trading lots -- still surfing and skiing as much as possible -- so far, no reason to retire, tho i will eventually -- gotta wake up on the other side at some point -- i am 65yo and have not been unemployed since i was in college -- saver, not a spender, ive saved plenty for me and mine

lotta factors, but hate spending savings, and, if i retire, there will be no situation remotely as nice as ive now -- but im not dogmatic -- a partner, who was the last guy id think would be happy retiring, told me he aint looked back -- sadly, tho the guy is a fitness fanatic, he just had a stent dropped and and a carotid cleanout -- yikes

I'm a bit surprised anyone remembers that I was working on a book called the retirement trap. I barely did. I never finished it, it's got a lot of scratch pad stuff in it that I never developed or edited, and it's never been edited for style, brevity, accuracy or even decent grammar and spelling. But here you go: this link should work: https://www.ponostyle.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/The-Retirement-Trap-1663863538.pdf

I go back and forth on this question all the time. I am 63 my wife is 50 and we own a sales agency and rep different brands in the Caribbean. It's profitable,  fun and every island trip a business expense, so I don't see me retiring for a few years but you never know.  `

Quote from: Caribsurf on April 04, 2024, 07:37:28 AM
I go back and forth on this question all the time. I am 63 my wife is 50 and we own a sales agency and rep different brands in the Caribbean. It's profitable,  fun and every island trip a business expense, so I don't see me retiring for a few years but you never know.  `

There's no good reason to retire if your work doesn't beat the shit out of you. I have some acquaintances in Hood River who do physically taxing labor, but they are making 2 to 3X more money than they ever did before and can't find anyone to take over their business. Retirement was a useful concept when people died at 60. Not so much when you will probably see 90.

Quote from: PonoBill on April 04, 2024, 10:40:39 PM

Quote from: Caribsurf on April 04, 2024, 07:37:28 AM
I go back and forth on this question all the time. I am 63 my wife is 50 and we own a sales agency and rep different brands in the Caribbean. It's profitable,  fun and every island trip a business expense, so I don't see me retiring for a few years but you never know.  `

There's no good reason to retire if your work doesn't beat the shit out of you. I have some acquaintances in Hood River who do physically taxing labor, but they are making 2 to 3X more money than they ever did before and can't find anyone to take over their business. Retirement was a useful concept when people died at 60. Not so much when you will probably see 90.

Good point Bill.  The job was grueling pre Covid when I was expected to travel a lot and that sucked at times.  Customers learned during Covid a zoom call can be as good as a physical sales call, so we pick and choose our trips and make sure they are fun and involve water sports and rum.

Quote from: PonoBill on April 04, 2024, 10:40:39 PM
There's no good reason to retire if your work doesn't beat the shit out of you. I have some acquaintances in Hood River who do physically taxing labor, but they are making 2 to 3X more money than they ever did before and can't find anyone to take over their business. Retirement was a useful concept when people died at 60. Not so much when you will probably see 90.

My thoughts on that.... if you have enough money to maintain your lifestyle (with a cushion for the unexpected), I'd only consider working if I'd be willing to do it for free. That was the ultimate test I used in my decision. Reasons to retire even if work doesn't beat the shit out of you are time and health.  If work doesn't bring you joy (ie, would do it happily for free), there are probably some other things you could be doing instead that do bring you joy (volunteering, family, surfing, learning, etc). I truly believe in the cliche--time is the most valuable currency of all.  And tied with time is health....you never know what lurks around the corner. Work didn't beat the shit out of me. But I've found that having extra time has opened new doors that I didn't even know existed (not work or money related). But I know some people who truly love their work and couldn't imagine life without it. They are lucky.

I wound the calendar back to 2017 and read the initial responses to this post and wonder what happened to their plan (or no plan) 7 years later. Interesting that some were in a place of financial ease and others were living on $100 above their breakeven. Thinking back to my 2017 I was 3 years into my second career having just finished grad school and working for a non-profit; way different from the work I retired from at age 59. Now, post Covid, I'm sort of retired again but thinking about going back to part-time. Believe it or not I miss the feeling of having something I have to do. I've had a summer gig teaching kayaking for the last 14 years that I keep doing because I love teaching. I'm a total kook at winging, but love foiling and hope I can continue to foil a while longer. The classic form of retirement wasn't a  fit for me. I can't emphasize the advice PonoBill and others have offered in regards to health and fitness. Don't get behind the curve on staying fit. Life rewards movement.

jumping on my erg ski now -- check this machine -- best out there for paddle endurance -- and my cardio reco'ed too -- said upper body cardio mixed in is key

Quote from: PonoBill on April 03, 2024, 07:46:18 PM
I'm a bit surprised anyone remembers that I was working on a book called the retirement trap. I barely did.

I guess we can look forward to your next book on selective memory  ;)

Thanks a bunch for the link.  There is a wealth of life experience here in the zone.  You and Supthecreek are two of the vanguard I get to keep an eye on, to see what works well and to learn from any mistakes.

My wonky corporate appreciation sign-off has been deleted for fear of vomit-inducement flashbacks,
Jim.

Update at five years in I can say that this is now the prime of my life. Winning the lottery to be free from just about all restraints and never miss a surf. Any clean or offshore conditions and even still the big stuff and I'm going. The freedom is priceless.