Most of us who have surfed or SUS have the move down to instinct. And it's integral part of downwinding as anyone who is a fan of DJ's videos knows well.
But there are paddlers who have never done the step back routine. I tool a guy yesterday from Seattle. I'd guess around his 40s, fit, coordinated, had downwinded the Gorge and a strong paddler. He had even snowboarded in powder which is a great simulation for the step back stance but he hadn't surfed in any way. He kept his knees bent and looked solid out of the gate despite the fact that conditions were full winter wildness 25-35mph with a huge east roll moving down the pike and a crossing NW swell.
I had briefed him before we launched about stepping back but once out there he returned to his comfort zone which was a hop back with both feet still parallel. Amazingly it worked a few times for him but mostly ended in high speed crashes which are like knock downs in a boxing match. You can only take so many. But he hung in there and made it to the harbor and for his first day out of Maliko that was a great accomplishment, especially a day like yesterday.
Point is if you haven't learned to step back and plan on coming out here to try a run off Maui's north shore, get that step back routine down. Practice in your kitchen, have people you know come up and shove you in the chest when you least expect it and react. (sink on back knee) Draw center lines on the floor so you can see where your feet are going when you move them. Or if you can ....go surfing of any kind. You'll be glad you did.
That sounds like tough conditions for me. I can see how you can forget everything and act like a deer caught in the headlights. My problem is when I get to much speed, I feel like I'm losing contact with the board and as I step back the board gets pulled away from me. Any tips on what I'm doing wrong?
Headmount, this is such a good point. I've been training with Anthony Vela for the past year and every training session includes a series of drills. One drill that we do all of the time, no matter what level paddler, is the "step back and brace" drill. There's variations of it that we do too, including cross stepping all the way back, quick acceleration once you move back up, stalling, etc. This drill carries over to so many different aspects of paddling, it's crazy. It's such an easy drill to practice and makes you 100% more comfortable to move around on any board. The video below shows me doing that drill at 0:16 to get an idea of how simple it can be. 3 strokes, step back and brace using your paddle and then repeat. https://vimeo.com/148907332
Interestingly, I know the guy that you took out. I forget how but he somehow got in touch with me when he came down to the Pacific Paddle Games and I was going to let him use a raceboard for the distance race. He grabbed it the Friday before to take it out and give it a spin and came back and said thanks but way too squirrely. I was a little surprised because he did say he snowboards a lot and has paddled in the Gorge a bit. He was smaller than me and thought my board was too unstable.
Quote from: Chilly on December 22, 2015, 10:14:17 AM
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My problem is when I get to much speed, I feel like I'm losing contact with the board and as I step back the board gets pulled away from me. Any tips on what I'm doing wrong?
my humble nOOby advice:
step back earlier. You need to anticipate rather than be caught out late. If caught late maybe take a bigger step, or two. Point being to not be off balance backwards but get your feet back under you quickly.
Quote from: headmount on December 22, 2015, 09:10:30 AM
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Point is if you haven't learned to step back and plan on coming out here to try a run off Maui's north shore, get that step back routine down. Practice in your kitchen, have people you know come up and shove you in the chest when you least expect it and react. (sink on back knee)
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Yeah! Love that. The key being "when you least expect it"! I'll try that on friends in the bar after a few drinks. You know... "Just practicing". I'm sure it'll turn out into fun nights.
Or you could have buddies like mine who will give your board a good thrust with their paddle when out on flatwater. They usually do it from the back so it is exactly the same effect as an acceleration.
So... for any of you skiers out there up for a winter drill: what Head just described is exactly what telemarking is like, except the other way around (it's forward you build the reflexes). Anyway, keeps you on your toes.
BTW Snowboarders have locked in feet. Think about it.
Almost any board feels squirrelly when you first try it. takes a day in varied conditions to get your sea legs.
I was amazed the guy didn't Pocahontas the whole way. Low rocker board on a big day, no rudder. Yikes.
I think people also need to learn to move to the tail for big Maliko, no matter what board they're on. If you can't do that without upsetting the board you're never going to have fun in the big drops--well, you might on the way down, but not at the bottom. Moving your feet to the stringer as you step is not a natural thing. Of course cross-stepping is the best way, but that takes a lot of practice. I watch Jeremy move on his board and it looks like it's being extruded from under his feet by some kind of roller system. So smooth. the board never tilts even a fraction of an inch.
Quote from: PonoBill on December 22, 2015, 10:42:47 AM
Almost any board feels squirrelly when you first try it. takes a day in varied conditions to get your sea legs.
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So true. Every board has it's reactions and one needs to tune into them. I try to vary boards as much as I can to help develop reflexes. Another "good practice".
Quote from: yugi on December 22, 2015, 10:36:12 AM
BTW Snowboarders have locked in feet. Think about it.
Yes. I thought that the snowboarding experience could bring out the idea of the end result but took for granted the leap of faith to get there. Also he was on a 14 which can stall quickly if you overstep, not like my 17. Like the unknown. What's going to happen? When it's so intense you don't want to try anything new. Falls are intense. Wind is blowing so hard that if your board isn't aligned correctly, it can flip over, your leash starts wrapping under the board or around the fin and you're in the deep. Rough duty first time out.
PBill thought his board wasn't ideal but I advised him to use what he had the most experience on and that was that board. Got him the same length and size paddle as he was used to. I wanted him to feel as comfortable as possible because the conditions all by themselves can be overwhelming.
Kayadogg Nice vid. Thanx. I'll use that in future.
Quote from: headmount on December 22, 2015, 09:10:30 AM
I tool a guy yesterday from Seattle. I'd guess around his 40s, fit, coordinated, had downwinded the Gorge and a strong paddler. He had even snowboarded in powder which is a great simulation for the step back stance but he hadn't surfed in any way. He kept his knees bent and looked solid out of the gate despite the fact that conditions were full winter wildness 25-35mph with a huge east roll moving down the pike and a crossing NW swell.
Can't comment on downwinding, but when I first started SUS, I stayed in parallel stance for a couple of months before trying to step back while surfing. It was incredibly difficult for me, took me six weeks of trying before I could do a simple step back without my body freaking out. Why? I have no idea, but if you are newer, the security blanket of a stable spot seems to be so overwhelming that getting away from it requires major effort.
By the way, stop tooling those guys.
Quote from: SUPcheat on December 22, 2015, 11:27:48 AM
Quote from: headmount on December 22, 2015, 09:10:30 AM
I tool a guy yesterday from Seattle. I'd guess around his 40s, fit, coordinated, had downwinded the Gorge and a strong paddler. He had even snowboarded in powder which is a great simulation for the step back stance but he hadn't surfed in any way. He kept his knees bent and looked solid out of the gate despite the fact that conditions were full winter wildness 25-35mph with a huge east roll moving down the pike and a crossing NW swell.
Can't comment on downwinding, but when I first started SUS, I stayed in parallel stance for a couple of months before trying to step back while surfing. It was incredibly difficult for me, took me six weeks of trying before I could do a simple step back without my body freaking out. Why? I have no idea, but if you are newer, the security blanket of a stable spot seems to be so overwhelming that getting away from it requires major effort.
By the way, stop tooling those guys.
I usually spell check but it was late and I was beat. Eyes were blurring.
Post removed by author.
Quote from: SUPcheat on December 22, 2015, 11:27:48 AM
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took me six weeks of trying before I could do a simple step back without my body freaking out. Why? I have no idea, but if you are newer, the security blanket of a stable spot seems to be so overwhelming that getting away from it requires major effort.
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Yep, that's the adult problem. We're creatures of habit, just gets worse with age. I've seen friends who have paddled for years, and who are great at other sports, get really stuck in their ways. Sticking to their perception of that "stable comfortable spot". It's hard to break out of a bad habit. Better to never develop them!
Which is why I encourage beginners to start moving around on their boards day 1. I taught a friend to SUP this summer. I had her running around on the board, doing kick turns and being mobile the first few days. It was warm weather, warm water, and just made it fun to mess around. She thought nothing of it and just kept up being mobile as she progressed. So first few downwinders she was moving around with comfort. She's a pretty good paddler now but where she really impresses guys who have years of experience is her kick turns and board manoeuvring. On downwinds she totally blows them away, both in style and in speed. All it took was making it part of the game day 1.
I totally agree it's best to stick to the board you know.
I pretty much step all over the board, now, and make point of keeping my feet moving around when in motion. I do a lot of experimental stepping that would have been impossible a year and a half ago.
As I have said before, it is like resolving a paralysis at my advanced age, but at least it can be done.
Getting all the stepping patterns of the Prowave to be completely at ease with it will probably take another six months for a grand total of a year and a half of practice. That's fine with me, since I always have fun on it.
Right now, I'd be happy just to step ON my board. Another day of getting skunked is shaping up.
Stepping back can be learned & even perfected on flat water. However, it is a really difficult skill to translate to rougher conditions, and becomes exponentially easier once a paddler learns how to read the water. I've focused on downwinding over the last couple of years, and have finally reached the point where I find myself preparing for bigger bumps seconds beforehand. Steeping back is second nature & no sweat.
In contrast, I am more or less a beginner (read kook) when it comes to SUS. I am lucky to get out a few times per year. Stepping back on the board is touch & go because I am trying to coordinate 5 different things at once, none of which are second nature. This includes identifying optimal waves, avoiding other people in the water & getting really low.
The idea to move on the board from day one on a SUP is outstanding & optimal. However, this probably won't make a first experience on a Maliko much better unless the person has done dozens of downwinders beforehand.
As BC says above the ability to read the conditions and when to step back comes with TOTW. Time On The Water. But practicing any time you can helps a lot. This is the drill Jeremy Riggs gave me before I went to Maui 3 years ago to train with him (I mean get instruction from the master)
"Pre-arrival training I recommend short sprints and walking the board. Take 5 -10 strokes and after your last stroke as you are lifting your blade out of the water, shuffle back to the tail so you are standing over the fin. As soon as the board stalls then move back to center. It helps if you plant your blade and take a stroke as you are moving back to center. If the water is warm enough, I recommend jumping off the board and get back on. Do it 10 - 20 times per session. You can also practice paddling your board in a surf stance."
Whilst I still do the John Belushi hop now and again (jumping both legs back in parallel stance), I'm getting better at the walking back. One thing I have found with a left footed rudder board is to have my right foot forward of the rudder and then step back behind the left foot whilst keeping that foot on the rudder. This allows some quick forward backwards movements. Once I have the right foot behind my rudder foot, then I tend to shuffle in surf stance backwards. I just have not got the cross stepping down in bigger conditions.
Quote from: Blue crab on December 22, 2015, 06:24:24 PM
The idea to move on the board from day one on a SUP is outstanding & optimal. However, this probably won't make a first experience on a Maliko much better unless the person has done dozens of downwinders beforehand.
Even with a good bit of downwinding experience, Maliko is a different bird. Though on a high wind day when it hasn't been blowing up a twenty foot East swell all week, and no north groundswell, it can feel pretty friendly. And then there's winter.
Every year when I get back from six months of daily Viento runs I tell myself I'm totally ready, and every time the first big day reminds me that 120 Vientos doesn't equal one Maliko. It's like thinking 120 apples equals a pineapple. Different deal.
Very interesting discussion! When I first started paddling, I quickly learned the wide, parallel squat stance for stability in bumpy water and deeply ingrained that habit. Last summer I started making a concerted effort to practice paddling inn narrow and/or staggered stances, and agile that initially destabilized me terribly, it's starting to pay off with improved balance on tippier boards.
When I first started SUSing, I quickly learned the "Belushi hop" for getting back on the board, and I'm still very dependent on this move today. Can anyone point me to videos that do a good job showing footwork in drills to improved my ability to walk the board more gracefully? I'm really looking to see where and how to step without destabilizing the board.
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Hopping isn't a great way to maintain balance a stability. If you get your feet close enough to the centerline of the board then you can shuffle without screwing up the board trim, but it's much smoother to cross step. With your feet in the cross step position--across the board--you can modulate the pressure of your heel or toe to keep the board flat. If you're in a surf stance I find it a little easier to start stepping backward by first moving my back foot forward. It closes the distance between front and back foot so you don't have to move that far. I take very short cross steps to keep the board under control, almost the minimum I can make without tangling feet.
Lots of videos and info on the web about cross stepping. The key is practice. I'm going to go make coffee, so I'll cross-step my way to the kitchen. Makes Diane nuts, but she's still in bed, so I'm good.
Thanks for the tip, PB! I'll check out some cross-stepping videos and start cross-stepping around the house. Getting a feel for the movement pattern on a stable surface will probably ease the learning curve a lot.
Quote from: PonoBill on December 23, 2015, 09:40:45 AM
The key is practice. I'm going to go make coffee, so I'll cross-step my way to the kitchen.
This really does actually help. It feels silly but the more you do it, the less you think about it, which is the goal. Reminds of the thread someone started years ago about brushing your teeth on one foot to help improve your balance. Cross-step to the bathroom, brush your teeth on one foot for 2 minutes, cross-step back. Now there's a training regimen for you.
ive been practicing on my goofboard--itd be a stupid way to get injured, but it's a challenge, and fun