I've been on an L41 Simsup ST for about 6 months now, and find it difficult to get back on my regular shaped boards. They all seem so slow in comparison. Some are actually more stable than my SIMSUP, but when it comes to performance, there is no comparison. I'm just wondering if others who own simmons-shaped boards have found the same to be true. I know some don't seem to like wide-tailed boards, but i don't understand why since they perform so much better, IMO. Now, my size and balance skills, or lack thereof, don't allow me to ride a board sub-30 in width, and maybe those narrower boards are where performance shines..but i suspect there are many mere mortals out there like myself that just will never be comfortable on a 28" wide SUP, so the simmons shapes seem ideal for us.
Beached,
What are your stats and dimensions of your S5? What kind of waves are you generally surfing?
I'm riding a 8'8 Naish Hokua X32LE x 141L at 5'10" and 182#, am low intermediate.
I've been considering the L41.
Bob
Quote from: socalgremmy on May 11, 2015, 06:22:09 AM
Beached,
What are your stats and dimensions of your S5? What kind of waves are you generally surfing?
I'm riding a 8'8 Naish Hokua X32LE x 141L at 5'10" and 182#, am low intermediate.
I've been considering the L41.
Bob
i don't have an S5, but rather the ST...they're different animals though I'm not sure how much different. The ST is simmons w/split tail, the S5 is Tomo w/split tail. I'm 6'3", 200 lbs. I've got a board similar to yours which is a carbon 8'10"*32...and everything happens in slow motion on it compared to the ST. The ST (8'4"*31) can be whipped around, the 8'10"...not so much. I'm rarely in overhead waves, but it does happen and i've yet to find conditions that the ST doesn't like. Even 2 fters can be fun with the ST.
Beached,
Thanks for that info.
I did mean the ST; that's the one I'm considering, just need to decide what size....
By the way, you'll get a lot more replies if you open this thread on the "Gear" discussion forum.
Quote from: beached on May 11, 2015, 04:46:37 AM
I know some don't seem to like wide-tailed boards, but i don't understand why since they perform so much better, IMO.
I've never paddled a Sims, but I imagine it's like anything else. In the prone surf world you could ask why doesn't every one ride a shortboard (in all it's variances) because they are more responsive, duck dive better, are faster in the wave, etc. Or you could ask why doesn't everyone ride a longboard (in all its variances). They are more stable, catch waves easier, trim better, glide better, etc. The same can be said for the SUP surfing world. Factor in for both SUP and prone things like tail sizes, tail shapes, fin set ups and countless other considerations. It really depends on not just the size and ability level of the rider but what style he/she enjoys doing.
surf4food, i know what you're saying but i don't think the analogy between short and long regular surf boards holds here. those are two definitive styles, but a simmons shaped board seems to do everything a regular shaped SUP board does, only better. again, maybe on a 15+ ft face a simmons board might start having trouble with the tail width...i haven't had mine out in that big (which is one reason i still own the other boards). but for the sizes i have had it out in, it always does everything better than my regular shaped boards. it's faster, glides as well, turns better, more stable given similar widths/volumes, gets thru whitewater better, catches waves better. i haven't tried riding the nose, and maybe that's an area where you're correct regards style....i imagine my SIMSUP is a bit short for that.
beached...sounds like you found a perfect board for your conditions. I wouldn't sell your other boards just yet. I love my SIMSUP in mushy smaller beach breaks and point breaks up to about head high. The board is super stable, fast and cut backs great! I take the same SIMSUP out at a slightly overhead reef break, breaking hard and pitching from the top and I hate the SIMSUP! I feel like I'm on a potato chip out in the middle of the ocean. It skitters and bounces all over the place. The board does not work for me in those conditions.
The thing is... the more your sup surf the more you want variety. For larger surf heavy people should go as narrow as possible for the conditions. The narrowness combined with a shorter board is always where the real sup surfing "Performance" will be. I think everybody is different as far as what type of sup board they prefer. This is a great time to be into this sport! So many great riding sup boards out there.
I love surfing my SIMSUP but just as much enjoy surfing the ten Foote Triton board. I guess it comes down to what board you like sup surfing for the "Conditions" you surf the most. Then there's that, "Variety is the spice of life thing."
I have to agree with Lopezwill. I had been SUS'ing simmons style SUPs almost exclusively for the past three years then was able to see video of myself and that changed my perspective. I still ride a SIMSUP most of the time but in the right conditions a performance shortboard SUP is what I'll ride. You can turn on rail harder and go more vertical.
IB....as in Imperial Beach? I live in Coronado.....
Which Simsup and what is your performance short SUS board?
Just curious.
Yes, I'm in IB but make it up to Coronado often. I'm making my own boards now, the simmons is based on the L41 S4 and ST. Currently riding a 7'7" version. I owned two S4s in the past. My performance board is based on the old PSH hull ripper but down sized to 8'4" for larger days.
Quote from: lopezwill on May 11, 2015, 12:03:22 PM
beached...sounds like you found a perfect board for your conditions. I wouldn't sell your other boards just yet. ...
no, i'm holding onto my other boards. i figure you're probably right and eventually i'll get into some conditions where my bigger standard shaped boards are better suited. i have an older larger custom simmons shaped board (8'6"*32.5") and it did that flapping/bouncing thing on some big waves last summer, so i know this shape can have limitations...i just haven't hit them yet with the L41 ST. But going narrow (for me, narrow being < 31") is just not an option.
I tend to agree with others on the limitations once you get overhead sized waves. But laying down a rail in smaller mushy waves aint a problem on the Sims.
I like the L41 a lot--in pitching waves to head high. I find them to be too much work in mush, and a skidding pain in the ass on bigger waves. I certainly don't consider them a quiver killer. The Foote Triton is a lot closer to that. Good in everything. Not as fast as the L41 (what is??) but it controls exactly the same from ankle high to double overhead. Fast, smooth, and quick. And very stable. I haven't had it in anything but Maui Mushburgers (well, one session at Lanes and one at Noriegas, but it was small) but I've had it out in all sizes.
Perhaps I need more time with the L41, but right now it feels very much limited to specific wave types. Loved it at Rincon, hated it at Manzanita, where I couldn't catch anything. Losing 20 pounds and keeping my knee juiced would probably help too.
They work if you keep it on rail
Everything feels slow compared to my SIMSUP, you are normal. I still ride some other shapes now and then, but I'm prepared for a different experience so it's fine. I have found that over time I take my SIMUSUP out more in windy/choppy conditions and small conditions than I used to. It works well in a wider variety of surf than I ever imagined it would when I had it made.
So far my 8-0 ST has been a quiver killer, not that I had much of one. Was lucky enough to catch the last big south swell in Santa Cruz and got plenty of overhead right handers.
Once my old brain got used to how fast this board goes the fun really started, like Chill said keep it on the rail.
good to hear i'm not alone! i agree, if you don't get this thing on a rail in bigger waves, it will slide. but once you get your foot way back there, it feels like it will hold in anything. and i also never thought i could use this on choppy days...but the more i took it out on choppy days, the easier it got. i'll hold onto my bigger boards, but i think they're getting bored hanging out in the garage.
I don't care for my simmons (Vec v-chub blown up) in mushy waves....too much work trying to get in or i'm sitting in with the shortboarders. But once they clean up some or get a little bigger and get some face it's great. I don't think mine is as fast as the Simsups since the rails aren't as straight in the rear but it still lets me make sections that would be questionable otherwise. I can also throw the v-chub around like nothing else I have. That's certainly partially due to the length but I also had mine made for Larry's twin moons like Chill runs in his Phoenix. When I step back over the twins I can spin it in circles, but the grab you get when on a rail is just silly, the responsiveness is insane. Quiver killer...no....I love variety. I often go to the beach with 3 boards (almost always at least two) they'll run from the 8-4 V-chub to my 14'er with the 10-6 triton in the middle as the primary go-to and the one that gets used most often regardless of conditions.
I struggle with the wide tail on my 8' L41 S4 and I want to experiment with a pointier board so I can do more vertical turns. Depending on how much juice the wave has, I find all that width starts feeling sketchy at around head high. (A 5th fin box might help that.) Had I not spent the last two years fighting to NOT use the paddle to turn (cuz I wanted to keep it pure, man) then I might be telling you a different story today.
Last week I tried an Infinity TL (7'-11" x 27" x 3 3/4" x 100L) which is way more pointier than the S4 and I could hardly stand and paddle the thing. It was humbling. Someone told me that even a couple liters when you get down around that size can make a major difference. I can easily handle paddling my 123L S4 in super choppy conditions now so I'm thinking I might be ready to drop down to maybe 110L to 115L. All the tomo style board people say that surface area is just as if not more important for paddling than volume.
Here's a question for everyone... If you were ready to drop down from your current 123L, how much farther down in volume would you go if the smaller board had a similar outline? Would dropping to 110L be too extreme?
Beached - It's been a couple months, but is that you I've seen out at Del Mar a few times?
Quote from: beached on May 11, 2015, 04:46:37 AM
I've been on an L41 Simsup ST for about 6 months now, and find it difficult to get back on my regular shaped boards. They all seem so slow in comparison. Some are actually more stable than my SIMSUP, but when it comes to performance, there is no comparison. I'm just wondering if others who own simmons-shaped boards have found the same to be true. I know some don't seem to like wide-tailed boards, but i don't understand why since they perform so much better, IMO. Now, my size and balance skills, or lack thereof, don't allow me to ride a board sub-30 in width, and maybe those narrower boards are where performance shines..but i suspect there are many mere mortals out there like myself that just will never be comfortable on a 28" wide SUP, so the simmons shapes seem ideal for us.
Magentawave,
I went from 8'3x29.5 103L down to 7'8x27 91L and found the volume not to be a big factor. On the other hand, the reduction in the surface area plays for more into my ability to stay on the board. Instead of a large sweet spot for the stance, I'm down to a spot that is approximately 15"x15" (semi-staggered stance in glassy condition with paddle out of the water). In choppy condition, the paddle must be engaged to stay up right.
With the similar outline, you will be fine in the 110 to 115 liters zone.
P.S. Today was the third time on the new board and I'm getting a bit more comfortable ... falling less and catching a tad more waves.
I have seen limitations on Simmons-shaped boards in OH surf...especially, the ones with the fins pasted all the way on the rails...
I don't get a sketchy feeling in overhead waves on my 7'10" wide-tailed Jammer...feels really positive with back foot over the accelerator...
I went down to a 7'5"...but, now have a 7'8" as a daily driver...
I think that fins and fin placement has a lot to do with it...I'm riding quad + 2.25" or 3.19" StubNub...
http://blog.surfingsports.com/jammer-sup
How much do you weigh?
SUPsports - Those are awesome photos. Your boards have a lot of meat in the tail so I'm surprised they can handle the big stuff.
Quote from: RATbeachrider on May 18, 2015, 02:40:13 PM
Magentawave,
I went from 8'3x29.5 103L down to 7'8x27 91L and found the volume not to be a big factor. On the other hand, the reduction in the surface area plays for more into my ability to stay on the board. Instead of a large sweet spot for the stance, I'm down to a spot that is approximately 15"x15" (semi-staggered stance in glassy condition with paddle out of the water). In choppy condition, the paddle must be engaged to stay up right.
With the similar outline, you will be fine in the 110 to 115 liters zone.
P.S. Today was the third time on the new board and I'm getting a bit more comfortable ... falling less and catching a tad more waves.
140lbs or 63.3kg.
Also on these small and low volume boards, you must be light on the feet to stay afloat.
Geez, only 140?! Well my fat arse is pushing 190 so no wonder I was doing the hula on that 100 liter Infinity! Believe me when I say that my respect for the heavier guys that can paddle 100 and sub 100 liter boards went up a thousandfold last week.
Quote from: RATbeachrider on May 18, 2015, 09:10:47 PM
140lbs or 63.3kg.
I'm hanging around 189# sans wettie...
There is volume jammed back in the tail...the stepped rails probably help a fair bit...but, the Jammers worked pretty good in sizable surf without them...
Again, fins...and fin placement, are very important parameters...
Consider that waveskis, with huge amounts of volume aft, can hold their own in size and critical surf sections surf...and, it becomes apparent that there are certainly other factors to consider...
Quote from: magentawave on May 18, 2015, 09:22:07 PM
Geez, only 140?! Well my fat arse is pushing 190 so no wonder I was doing the hula on that 100 liter Infinity! Believe me when I say that my respect for the heavier guys that can paddle 100 and sub 100 liter boards went up a thousandfold last week.
Quote from: RATbeachrider on May 18, 2015, 09:10:47 PM
140lbs or 63.3kg.
I'm 240lbs+ or 109kg. and my stand in the lineup min. is around 125 liters. My 9' short board is around 140 liters. It's half sunk, and paddles slow. Being 6'7 doesn't make things any easier either. One of these days I'll finish shaping the 8'5 Simmons I have in my shop. It should be around 130 liters. Just for a joke I paddled a 100 liter board in the harbor. I completely submerged it to my knees ::) So there is a minimum.
stoneaxe: i've got the V-chub as well...think mine is 8'6". there is no comparison between that board and the SIMSUP ST, the latter being so much faster/lighter. The V-chub was my first sub 9fter, and it was great for a while, but now it seems too heavy, floaty and slow. it's the board visiting friends/family jump on for super-stability. Contrary to your findings, for me the V-chub fails in the bigger stuff...starts bouncing around and slides, but I'm probably too light for it at 200 lbs.
magentawave: not me in Del Mar...am on East Coast.
Quote from: beached on May 19, 2015, 05:05:40 AM
stoneaxe: i've got the V-chub as well...think mine is 8'6". there is no comparison between that board and the SIMSUP ST, the latter being so much faster/lighter. The V-chub was my first sub 9fter, and it was great for a while, but now it seems too heavy, floaty and slow. it's the board visiting friends/family jump on for super-stability. Contrary to your findings, for me the V-chub fails in the bigger stuff...starts bouncing around and slides, but I'm probably too light for it at 200 lbs.
magentawave: not me in Del Mar...am on East Coast.
Yeah I hear you. I'm going to call Kirk one of these days, love the look of the ST. Mine was the first v-chub Sup Shawn shaped. When I had mine built I had asked him to blend the Phoenix with the Simsup. It didn't quite work out that way. I think the nose is similar to the Phoenix but its not the simsup tail. I would have preferred thinner rails that were straighter in the tail. I'm sure its not as fast as the L41's. I've had it in up to head and a half and it performed well for me there, a little bouncy but no slide. What's the bottom like on yours? I think the biggest mistake I made was to have a convex nose, tends to plow a bit when I'm trying to get into smaller stuff. I do like the board though and have had some of my best rides on it.
It's interesting to see the different takes on what a "Simmons" style board is. There are some that look like a simmons...others that don't.
http://www.minisimmonssurfboards.com/understanding-mini-design/