Just wondering what some of the events are classifying "STOCK" now???
Of course at the BOP 12'6" was stock and I figured this would set the standard, but I don't want to assume this is the case, and thought it would be an interesting topic.
In particular I am interested in the SO. Cal Race Series and whether to stick with stock or invest in something longer? I want to race in the most competitive class but i also want to pick a class and stick with it for the whole series. Any thoughts?
Tim Stamps, Hobie, Steve Boehne, Joe Bark, C4 and others have been pumping out 12'6" boards.
C4 and Hobie have presented proposed class definitions (another couple of threads on this forum).
And the plethora of surftech Lairds and starboards that are already out there are three reasons that I would think the stock class will settle out at 12'6".
I just ordered a 12'6" ocean racer from Steve Boehne (so I hope the 12'6" class sticks).
Any longer and transportation, procurement cost, storage and other factors start to become harder (same as prone paddleboarding - 12' is just way easier to manage everywhere except the water).
If the big sponsored races adopt defined classes (12'6" stock, 14' and unlimited would be my guess based on what boards are being produced today) next season, then this should settle itself. Naish, Rainbow, Hennessey, etc - can you get together and work this out?
Even though it ultimately comes down to the event sponsors/organizers choice of what classes will be offered, it would be usefull in planning your board purchases to have some form of consistancy.
On the East Coast there are not that many races. Last week at the 22 mile C2C there were 3 SUP classes, 12'6" and under, 14' and under and unlimmited. Only one contested the unlimmited class, 2 in the 14' and 7 in the 12'6" class. To the organizers credit, they created divisions to promote fair racing. Even though C2C is not and event where you win prizes, it is still important to create as even a playing field as possible. I personally am struggling to justify spending around $3200 (incl shipping) for a 16'+ board to race one or maybe 2 guys a couple of times a year. Maybe the stock division is the way to go on the East Coast?
I am hoping too that the Stock class becomes the most competitive and most attended in the future. It seems to make the most sense. The last thing we want to create is the battle of the WALLET! In a race the most fit and the smartest most prepared racer should win not the guy with the UN-OBTANIUM board or a quiver of them for that matter. 8)
That's why I will be sticking with the stock class, and encouraging others to do the same. I can relate to using unlimited boards for the 20+ mile races where it makes sense but even then I think the stock classes will be the most popular amongst the average racers because of all the obvious reasons, $, transport, etc...
River - Is stock considered off the rack or is it just length considered stock?
Aloha
Byron
I reckon they should keep it simple with just two classes.. Stock 12'6" and under (off the shelf)..and open class for unrestricted.
Why do we have this odd 14' class...other than for the benefit of just one board brand (C4 and their Vortice)... It's just my thoughts.. :)
DJ
I'm not sure it's to accomadate the Vortice. More so to accomadate the heavier paddlers and make a "more affordable" race class!
There will always be paddlers who will say why race if your not going to be in the fastest class! You could counter by saying why race if you are not in the most competitive class!!
Quote from: DavidJohn on October 30, 2008, 12:19:43 PM
I reckon they should keep it simple with just two classes.. Stock 12'6" and under (off the shelf)..and open class for unrestricted.
Why do we have this odd 14' class...other than for the benefit of just one board brand (C4 and their Vortice)... It's just my thoughts.. :)
DJ
I think C4 probably started in at 14' because they likely determined that to be the point where things start to get really
FUN for full size or bigger riders on downwinders. It is a huge stoker to be getting longer, funner glides. So, if that is where the most fun is, and you are already riding that for max hoots, why not race that? It is not like a 14 foot board or even a 17 is much more $$$ than a race weight 12'6. At least from what I can tell, the difference in speed in going longer over a great 14' is pretty negligable, so deciding to go unlimited may be a tougher choice. But that is for downwind races. I don't think C4 has designed a board for flatwater racing (have they?).
QuoteIs stock considered off the rack or is it just length considered stock?
Stock seems like the wrong name. It seems like custom, light weight, area, rider, and condition specific boards should just be called 12'6 race class. I think it would be really cool if there was an off the shelf deal too. That way stock is called stock, and Unobtanium, thick wallet 12'6 boards can be called something else ;) That keeps it fun for first timers, etc.
I think the 14 class is here to stay. I know of one company that is testing and building a 14 footer for this class.
Thanks for clearing up the stock thing and agree a stock off the shelf race would be good for people that suck like me.
Aloha
Byron
Stand-up paddleboard divisions evolved from paddleboard racing classes. They have a class called Stock which is 12'. In the Catalina Classic those boards must weigh 20lbs., but that's the only race I know if with a weight restriction. I would think 12'6" was chosen for SUP racing because it would be unfair to put a 12'1" Surftech Laird model in with unlimited boards. There has been a 14' class in paddleboards for a long time too which is probably why C4 and Joe Bark started production boards in this size. From what I understand it's 12'6", 14, and U/L for mainland events, although a lot of people (especially those over 200#) would rather see just 14' and U/L.
Quote from: Admin on October 30, 2008, 03:38:47 PMI think it would be really cool if there was an off the shelf deal too. That way stock is called stock, and Unobtanium, thick wallet 12'6 boards can be called something else ;) That keeps it fun for first timers, etc.
i like this idea a lot because it could quite possibly put people on an "even playing field". thinking something like a one design... make it inflateable so that there's no issue re: transport, storage, etc. not totally about performance, more about fun. these boards can be surfable and used for all types of races and games (yikes!). but of course everybody knows that they'll have no chance against a steamroller in the final bout of "king of the wave". just a thought.
that being said, i've got a couple of 12'6" stock bark boards on the way to add to the 16' u/l flatwater racer... oh yeah, we're rockin' now!
(http://www.barkocean.com/app/webroot/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/l1030037.jpg) (http://www.barkocean.com/boards/view/16)
Nice photo of Joe and I comparing some of boards he whipped up for the BOP while Aaron Napoleon and Noah Shimabukuro paddle offshore,
it was 4 days before the race and we are trying to see which boards we want to paddle-too bad the conditions were so brutal-those boards almost paddle themselves on a normal day.
Actually the "Stock" class for Stand Up racing boards is 14 feet,
anything shorter is really just a surfboard...
The 12'6" class was created as a "Surfboard" class to allow all the newbies to race and to increase participation by anybody with a stand up board.
The 12 foot 6 inch overall length was neccesitated due to the fact that the most prevalent long stand up board available at the time was the 12'1" Surftech Ron House Laird board.
The choice of 12'6" for the BOP was forced on the elites by the race organizer probably due to short shaping rooms that wouldn't allow mass production of enough 14' boards in the short time before the event. Almost every one of the elite starters would prefer to be on at least a 14' board.
But why wear workboots to run a 10K? Why paddle a slower boat?
Unlimited class is where it's at, especially when you're 220 lb 46 year old... I love my 18' Bark
As Guy Pere puts it:
"12'6 as a stock class is stupid. That is a terrilble size to build a racing board. It's just bad for the sport.
If the surfboard class were 12'6, then the stock class could be up to 14ft, and the open class from there.
That would be simple, and we could all just move on.
I'll tell you a few more feet of board with the conditions at the Rainbow sandals race would of been really nice. "
The stock division for paddleboard racing is derived from the old Lifeguard stock paddleboard specifications of 12 foot maximum length and 20 pounds minimum weight.
SUP OPEN CLASS:
Length - No Length Restriction. ( may be less than 14' ft. )
Board Weight - No Weight Restriction.
Board Design - No Design Restrictions, Twin Hulls (catamaran) are allowed.
Fin(s) are allowed.
Rudder(s) are allowed.
Foil(s) are allowed.
SUP 14 CLASS:
Length - 14' ft maximum (426.72 cm)
Board Weight - No Weight Restriction.
Fins shall be fixed in place.
Board Design is Open, except Twin Hulls (catamaran) are not allowed.
Rudder(s) are not allowed.
Foil(s) are not allowed.
SUP 12.6 CLASS:
Length - 12'6" ft maximum ( 381.0 cm )
Board Weight - No Weight Restriction.
Fins shall be fixed in place.
Board Design is Open, except Twin Hulls (catamaran) are not allowed.
Rudder(s) are not allowed.
Foil(s) are not allowed.
Feel the glide
As a newbie to the sport (one year), but someone that is totally hooked (I SUP for distance five days a week) I think all of these classes are arbitrary and comparing prone classes to stand up does not make any sense. The only thing they have in common is the words "paddle board." It is like comparing body boarding and surfing.
As I do agree a 14' board goes somewhat faster then 12'6", so would a 14' 6" or 15' or 16' they all seem arbitrary? The cost variance is minimal at retail. I do think there needs to be a bar set for a standard length and as many of us have been buying or training on boards to accommodate the BOP stock class. The 12' 6" class works well for us with limited income to buy additional boards. I am not saying the BOP designation should determine the class, but the investment many have made may end up determining the classes.
The sport will continue to grow as more people get involved and the most common conversion I have found is the recreational person on a Laird type SUP that gets hooked on distance SUP paddling and eventually wants to race. The 12'6" classes allow a nice transition for these new comers both in speed and investment. I know in my case I can only afford one $1600-$2500 board. I would assume most are in my situation.
From what I can see the 14' may be the class that slowly disappears, the bulk of the people showing up for races in So Cal are on 12' 6" or smaller or something closer to 18'. The last race in La Jolla was dominated by 12' 6" and under. At the BOP there were only 15 people on 14' boards. There were 184 on stock boards. I am sure the 14' folks do not enjoy chasing 18' boards.
Just my 2 cents.
SS
Quote from: aquamoose on November 20, 2008, 06:36:03 PM
SUP OPEN CLASS:
Length - No Length Restriction. ( may be less than 14' ft. )
Board Weight - No Weight Restriction.
Board Design - No Design Restrictions, Twin Hulls (catamaran) are allowed.
Fin(s) are allowed.
Rudder(s) are allowed.
Foil(s) are allowed.
thinkin' like a bi-directional outrigger...
no fin...
no rudder...
maybe a foil...
shunt your turns like a proa!!!
Quote from: sanch10 on November 21, 2008, 08:51:10 AM
From what I can see the 14' may be the class that slowly disappears
Why I decided to buy a 14 footer.
1) I've been told a 12'6 won't allow you to connect ocean swells when doing
fun down winders in high winds and large seas. A 14 footer is required. (According to a friend in Hawaii). By the way, I don't think a straight rocker and boat like bow will work in our conditions either.
2) I have little interest in organized races. 95% of my down winders will be with the wife and friends, chasing swells for grins, giggles, and exercise.
3) Why buy 16 or 18 feet when 14 does the job. Again, not planning to win races. It's about having fun on the minimum required to connect swells and get the thrill charging down wind in big seas.
3) Its more about being alone at sea, in the beauty of the ocean, during victory at sea conditions. Very common conditions in North Carolina.
Lets hope the 14 footer lives on for customers like me. ;)
I still like the idea of just two classes.. 12'6" stock boards.. and open class race boards.
Maybe the 14'ers will be your poor mans race board.. and for those who don't want to lug around a massive board.
DJ
I guess I should clarify that my response was aimed at racing events.
SS
I have to agree with aquamoose, in that the 12'6" class was really just a surfboard class created to accomodate an already popular 12'1" board. Of course someone will always modify the design to be as competitive as possible within the class (as we're seeing with Hobie and others doing a 12'6" not-so-surfboard-like board). Beyond that, the 14' class (or "stock" racing class) I believe is going to grow; there are at least 3 or 4 boards already on the market designed for that category. The 14' board can be designed to handle a much larger paddler than a 12'6" (for racing or cruising purposes). And, there will always be those that, because of their size and/or desire for speed, will want/need an unlimited class board in the 16' to 18' range.
Larry
In the yachting community, there are "class" races where all the boats are the same - hull, sails, etc are from the same manufacturer; and there are races where boats have corrections factors attached to them - longer boats carrying more sail will have a negative factor and shorter boats with less sail are compensated. You all start at the same time in the open races, and you will have actual times/places for crossing the finish line, but the winner isn't determined until the factors are applied. A smaller boat more skillfully started-raced-finished could beat the all out racing machine just sailed by non-tactical sailors.
Maybe we could have "come one - come all" races where correction factors are applied based on type and length of craft. Think about Dave Kalama's finish at this year's Naish Maliko race compared to Jamie Mitchell and the lead OC1s. Along these lines, Kalama's win is even more impressive! And the debate about classes could be put on the back-burner (or in SUP specific races).
Just another thought...