Would love for some feedback on correct paddle technique / equipment. I am 73 inches tall and have used a 82" paddle since I started. My first paddle was a wood Sawyer paddle and i never had a problem. I ordered a Shaka from Kialoa and my problems started after that... however i'm not 100% sure it is because of the paddle. I will number my thoughts below and people can comment on what they feel the have insight on.
Paddle Solutions?
1. Try shortening paddle? I'm afraid to do this because it has always felt about right but maybe this is a solution?
2. Go back to a wod paddle
Technique Solutions
3. getting the paddle vertical for stroke keeps blade under board and paddling straight but requires your top shoulder to cross over your body. Seems like this would add stress to the shoulder? My small brain thinks that having your top and out in front of your shoulder would put less stress on it rather than your top hand reaching across the board to ensure a vertical entry and pull.
4. Should the top arm be bent or straight?
5. Where should the strongest part or your stroke be? middle?
6. Do you reach very far forward to put paddle in water or start a bit closer to your body?
7. How far back do you pull?
I come from a swimming background and have also had 2 tramatic injuries to my shoulder so i doubt it all stems from Stand Up. Thanks for any help or thoughts.
Aloha,
I'll offer some of my own personal insights and hopefully they'll be of some help. Like you, I have some swimming experience (by way of triathlon and open-water swimming). I tweaked my RT shoulder (rotator) in a snowboarding mishap about 12 years ago and as I've aged, that injury has begun to make itself known again in recent years.
1). My 1st paddle was an all-fiberglass C-4, cut to 10 inches above my height. I've since been paddling with a Kialoa Shaka Pu`u, cut to 7 inches above my height. The intent was to use it more for surfing than for general paddling, however I'm beginning to find that the shorter length is easier on my shoulders, despite the relative stiffness of carbon, as compared to 'glass.
2). Eventually, I'd love to get my hands on a wood paddle, if anything for comparative purposes. I've read a lot of good things on this forum regarding the excellent damping properties of wood.
3). Your line of reasoning regarding the top arm "crossing over" to get the paddle shaft to near vertical is on the mark; I guess it would depend on the nature of your shoulder injury. Unfortunately, to keep the board from yawing excessively, you do need to keep as much of the blade under the board as possible. One solution may be to take shorter and shallower pulls before changing sides, say 3-5 strokes per side vs. 7-10.
4). Definitely a technique-oriented question best suited to leave up to the individual, but when paddling, I try to visualize what swim coaches always tell swimmers; to imagine yourself shimmying through a tiny opening in the water, planting your hand and pulling yourself past your hand, rather than "pushing" water past you. For me, that translates to starting my pull with both arms fairly straight, I then try to visualize bringing my body (and subsequently, the board) past my hands, rather than "slapping" water out of the way to generate propulsive force.
Additionally, this is where I feel a shorter shaft may be more comfortable as it seems easier to reach out and forward to start the pull phase, rather than up and forward, as one must do with a longer paddle shaft.
5). Again, if I'm visualizing the swimming thing, the most propulsive part of the stroke winds up being in the middle.
6). Personally, I never "reach out" to grab water. Just as far out as is comfortable. The only exception to this may be if I find myself trying to get into a wave from behind, then the technique sometimes goes out the window...
7). Almost never beyond where I'm standing on the board.
I'm sure others will be offering additional insight, but here's $0.02 from my personal experience. Hope this helps! ;D - A hui hou
Arrr...So many questions and so many answers.. :D...I'll give you my 2 cents worth..(btw I'm no expert)..It wasn't long ago I was asking similar questions here.
To start with..How far you reach and how far you paddle depends on if you are sprinting (trying to catch a wave or to get through the surf)..or if you are casually cruising along on flat water.
I mostly paddle flat water and I don't reach that far forward..and I paddle past my feet till my lower hand gets to my hip..doing long smooth strokes.
When in the surf or sprinting I bend and reach as far forward as I can and stop well before hand reaches my hips..and do a much quicker shorter stroke.
I like to keep my lower arm straight and only have a slight bend in my upper arm (pushing forward)..during the power stroke..Here's a few pictures that might help.
(http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg9/djp-1/cap0004a.jpg)
(http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg9/djp-1/cap0005b.jpg)
(http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg9/djp-1/cap0007c.jpg)
(http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg9/djp-1/cap0006d.jpg)
BTW..I'm 6'4" and like a longer paddle..about 12" above my hight for flat water cruising..and a few inches shorter for the surf.
But paddle length also depends on a couple more things..Board thickness..Blade length..and how deep you like to paddle..etc..even body shape.. ;D
I also do the twist thing to try and get my left hand over the right rail when paddling on the right side..and visa versa.
I think a good general rule for paddle length is to have the point where the blade comes out from the shaft at eye level with the handle resting on the ground..shown here with my old home made paddle being the length that I like..and my Naish paddles being a little short.
I now use only the two Naish paddles..because I have made the white one adjustable and us it the lenght of my old home made job..and the other Naish is great for the surf.
(http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg9/djp-1/CopyofIMG_1498Smalla.jpg)
Good luck with it...Shoulder pain is a bugger...I'm looking forward to see what others have to say about this topic.
DJ
I don't know if it was my technique or not, but I started having shoulder pain last summer which I assumed was a combination of lifting my board over my head and paddling. I t finally got so bad I went to see my orthopedist and found I had a bone spur which was aggravating my rotator cuff from overhead motion. I had surgery in January and I just got back on my board last weekend. Shoulder is still not 100% but I think the problem is cured. Hopefully this is not your problem but better to find out sooner than later and let it bother you for months like I did.
If your shoulder is hurting:
Try padding with your elbow down on your top hand. Doing the chicken wing (elbow at the same level or higher than the shoulder) will put more stress on the rotator cuff and make it sore if its got a pre-existing...
Keep lower arm straight. Dont reach across you body but rotate your upper body to initiate the stroke. Pull with your core and torso not all the little muscles in your arms and shoulders. Just some quick points I just thought of before I fall asleep.
Any good videos to watch of propper technique. Would be curious to watch River or others that have had paddling backgrounds from other sports.
Any thoughts on cutting down the paddle from 9" overhead to smaller. I'm really afraid to do this since other than shoulder pain... it feels about right, but I guess it would help keep the top arm a bit lower.
Thanks for all the replies everyone. I have taken a little something from each of your posts and look forward to trying some changes next paddle.
I'll let you know if i find the magic bullet.
If you haven't already done it, first thing is to make sure your shoulder pain isn't physiological. If it is, all the technique and paddles in the world aren't going to fix it. You may need surgery to fix the shoulder. I had arthroscopic rotator cuff surgery a few years back to clean out the ball and socket area, fix some minor tears and remove scar tissue. It wasn't fun and it kept me out of the water for a few months but it did the trick. The shoulder still bothers me a bit after a hard day's paddle, but I can live with it and I can still SUP and surf.
If it isn't physiological, try an otter tail paddle with a narrow blade. This paddle has much less resistance in the water and is much easier on the shoulders and elbow joints. http://www.standuppaddlesurf.net/2007/11/24/infinity-surf-shop%e2%80%99s-otter-blade-stand-up-paddle-video/
A consistently practiced and well designed exercise program to strengthen the chest, back and shoulders might help as well.
Re technique, Nate Burgoyne's online mag ran a series of interviews with Dave Chun a while back that was pretty informative about paddles and paddling technique. It's worth watching. (Scroll down to "interviews" to find the four part interview.) http://supsurfmag.com/option,com_joomap/Itemid,80/
Whatever is going on with you is fixable I'm sure. Just a matter of getting to the right solution. Good luck!
even w/ all the recent pain, i surfed almost 3 hours last weekend in small waves and somehow my shoulder feels better... not sure how that is. However, i worked on the advice below while paddling. I kept my top elbow bent and also focused on keeping my top shoulder from rotating too far across my body.
However, most pain i've had has come from flat water paddling. It seems to be less problematic with surfing. None the less, i think the pointers below have helped the issue some. I was really suprised that i really had no pain after a 3 hour session and that it actually felt better the day after paddling than it did the day before paddling.
thanks for all the advice
I too had shoulder pain, I tried and shortend my paddle a couple of inches so that I would start to paddle at eye level , after a couple of sessions the pain went away. worked for me
Aloha
I've said this before but my shoulders are junk. I paddle carefully, keeping my upper arm no higher than my shoulder and I pull to my feet and no further.
But for me the big solution is wood. I still use CF paddles a lot, but for longer paddles I want my Malama.
A word about surgery. Avoid it if you can. Do all the physical therapy you can manage before you undertake that course. the likelihood of infection these days is simply too high, and the ramifications are nasty. I nearly died, nearly lost my arm, and it's taken years to get strength back. Mark Raaphoorst (owner of the Ding King, and designer of the Ku Nalu, the F16, F18, paddler extraordinaire, etc. ) went in for a bicep surgery a few weeks ago and developed a MRSA Staph infection. I talked with him today, he said it was the most scared he's been in 25 years.
I told Mark before his surgery that he needed to pay close attention to potential infection after any surgery. I'd tell all of you the same thing. He didn't like the way things looked (and smelled) went in and insisted that they culture the pus from the wound, and they immediately admitted him to the hospital. I think he was there for at least a week, and he's still on intravenous antibiotics. I had to wear a pic line and an automatic transfusion pack for months.
Modern surgical techniques are wonderful, but not without risk.
No small thing, and it can happen in the best facilities
Quote from: PonoBill on April 17, 2008, 01:07:36 AM
I've said this before but my shoulders are junk. I paddle carefully, keeping my upper arm no higher than my shoulder and I pull to my feet and no further.
But for me the big solution is wood. I still use CF paddles a lot, but for longer paddles I want my Malama.
A word about surgery. Avoid it if you can. Do all the physical therapy you can manage before you undertake that course. the likelihood of infection these days is simply too high, and the ramifications are nasty. I nearly died, nearly lost my arm, and it's taken years to get strength back. Mark Raaphoorst (owner of the Ding King, and designer of the Ku Nalu, the F16, F18, paddler extraordinaire, etc. ) went in for a bicep surgery a few weeks ago and developed a MRSA Staph infection. I talked with him today, he said it was the most scared he's been in 25 years.
I told Mark before his surgery that he needed to pay close attention to potential infection after any surgery. I'd tell all of you the same thing. He didn't like the way things looked (and smelled) went in and insisted that they culture the pus from the wound, and they immediately admitted him to the hospital. I think he was there for at least a week, and he's still on intravenous antibiotics. I had to wear a pic line and an automatic transfusion pack for months.
Modern surgical techniques are wonderful, but not without risk.
No small thing, and it can happen in the best facilities
Ditto to the infection concerns. My wife said 2 people were recently admitted to hospital here with Strep (Yeah, the same as Strep Throat) infections in minor cuts in their hands. One person had her hand amputated after having the infection go from nothing to balloon sized within a day. Today, everyone must take infections seriously! Don't blow it off as nothing.
If the shoulder pain is physiological there are a couple of things to do. Active Release Technique is the bomb! Works fast and FIXES the problem. There are also more dynamic stretches that really work the rotaor cuff (think major league baseball) as opposed to static stretches. I work on this stuff all the time as am a sports injury Chiropractor. Hope that helps.
I thought about what i wrote last night, and I think I went too far. If you need, or even just want surgery, by all means get it, but be very aware of the potential for infection afterwards. If I had been a bit more aware I would have been back in the hospital days sooner and it would have probably been less of a big deal.
I hear you Bill. I went through modality and ultrasound treatments as well as physical therapy for 2 months before I decided to go under the knife. That worked well for me when I had golfer's elbow, but my shoulder just never showed any improvement. It will be a long time before I do it again though - I just hope my rotator cuffs can hold out. Cheers
The easiest fix for me was shortening the paddle. I'm 72" tall and started with an 86" paddle because my friend told me I was tall and it would work. He was new and that was not accurate. I ended up cutting it to 81" and it was like magic. Since I'm mostly surfing vs distance paddling I found the smaller length to be much easier on my shoulders. I had a revelation when I went on a distance run with Todd B from C4. His paddle was 75" and I was surprised that it was so comfortable for me to use. Long story short, I went from 81" to 80" to 78" to 75" and now I may go to 74". It's just preference but I don't have the shoulder problems that I had before.
SRFNFF also has a point with the blade size although on my 8'9" I prefer the 8.5" blade.
Was talking to some SUP friends after a session last week as we were comparing paddles (must get a life ;) ) and one of them said that too shorter paddle was likely to put an unhealthy load on the lower back, which does seem to make sense.
Quote from: flipperade on April 23, 2008, 01:28:53 AM
Was talking to some SUP friends after a session last week as we were comparing paddles (must get a life ;) ) and one of them said that too shorter paddle was likely to put an unhealthy load on the lower back, which does seem to make sense.
I tend to agree..I think I'd rather a bad shoulder than a bad back.
Check out the lower back bend on this guy towards the end of this vid.....My back hurts just watching it.. ;D
DJ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvD6-Nc2_rM&feature=user
Ouch he is not doing his back any favours his lumbar area and hips are powering those deep strokes.....trouble on the way for him.
Photosettle,
if you still have your old wooden paddle, I would just try to exclusively use it for a month and see if you feel any difference.
He'll be feeling that when he's sixty. Every frickin' thing i did in my twenties i feel in my sixties.
i'm having a constant throbbing pain in my right shoulder and wonder if shortening my paddle wouldn't help. but i'm loath to cut it down, 'cause what if it doesn't make any diff?
DavidJohn: this is where you come in. With all your skills at jury rigging, seems to me if you put yer noggin to it you could figure out a way to attach some type of cross piece, a T of some sort, down the shaft a little and thus give at least an approximation of how a shorter paddle might work. i stood in front of my werner spanker for a good ten minutes and drew a blank on how to accomplish this. if you have time, maybe you could noodle it around. what do you think?
Quote from: linter on April 25, 2008, 12:06:35 PM
i'm having a constant throbbing pain in my right shoulder and wonder if shortening my paddle wouldn't help. but i'm loath to cut it down, 'cause what if it doesn't make any diff?
DavidJohn: this is where you come in. With all your skills at jury rigging, seems to me if you put yer noggin to it you could figure out a way to attach some type of cross piece, a T of some sort, down the shaft a little and thus give at least an approximation of how a shorter paddle might work. i stood in front of my werner spanker for a good ten minutes and drew a blank on how to accomplish this. if you have time, maybe you could noodle it around. what do you think?
Here is how I cut my Shaka Pu'u too short, then made it longer, then shortened it again back to my original cut.
When I decided to go longer, I cut the shaft 6" below the tee. Then I found a wood dowel that fit inside the shaft perfect. 7/8" dowel was a precision fit. I extended the paddle, now with a 1" gap between the cut, with wood dowel showing. I duct taped the joint while testing the new longer length. Had I like this length, I would have used epoxy and some glass cloth to cover the joint. Since I didn't like it longer, I just pushed the ends back together tight and used expoxy to bond the dowel and joint back together.
My wife had deep shoulder pain this Winter. Now that her paddle is shorter, no more pain. Can't say for sure the shorter paddle cured it. Test at your own risk. She also switched to a smaller blade. That for sure should help.
Quote from: DavidJohn on April 23, 2008, 07:23:56 AM
I tend to agree..I think I'd rather a bad shoulder than a bad back.
Check out the lower back bend on this guy towards the end of this vid.....My back hurts just watching it.. ;D
I don't think I've heard of anyone in paddle sports complain of a bad back. Doesn't mean it doesn't exist, but I just haven't heard of any. However, I have heard of lots of shoulder problems. If you look at the top outrigger paddlers they all paddle in a slightly forward position bent at the hip.
I'm curious if people who are suffering from shoulder problems have their elbows up or down on their top hand. If it is down it lowers the angle perceived at the shoulder. Also, it stops the butterfly action.
Quote from: linter on April 25, 2008, 12:06:35 PM
DavidJohn: this is where you come in. With all your skills at jury rigging, seems to me if you put yer noggin to it you could figure out a way to attach some type of cross piece, a T of some sort, down the shaft a little and thus give at least an approximation of how a shorter paddle might work. i stood in front of my werner spanker for a good ten minutes and drew a blank on how to accomplish this. if you have time, maybe you could noodle it around. what do you think?
I'll see what I can come up with..I'm sure it can be done..and might be a good idea..The only problem is that your fingers will be spread to let the shaft through the top.
Re the shoulder pain..I've had my dose of shoulder pain..and I know other do..and I wonder if it is often a result of lifting the board onto and off the roof of the car or truck..and nothing to do with the paddling.
I know putting my board on the roof of my 4x4 and resting it down nice and gentle on the roof racks puts a huge stress on my shoulders..and it's that position of elbows above shoulders that may cause damage.
Just a thought.
DJ
Quote
I'll see what I can come up with..I'm sure it can be done..and might be a good idea..The only problem is that your fingers will be spread to let the shaft through the top.
i see what you're saying about spread fingers. what about a t that extended farther than normal to each side so you could get a full grip on either side of the shaft? it wouldn't be ideal but maybe it'd be good enuf for a test run or two.
Quote from: linter on April 25, 2008, 05:20:38 PM
Quote
I'll see what I can come up with..I'm sure it can be done..and might be a good idea..The only problem is that your fingers will be spread to let the shaft through the top.
i see what you're saying about spread fingers. what about a t that extended farther than normal to each side so you could get a full grip on either side of the shaft? it wouldn't be ideal but maybe it'd be good enough for a test run or two.
I can't see that working..because of the offset and twisting motion..and also the extra load on the clamping system that holds the T to the shaft..You don't want to clamp it too tight..Just enough to not twist.
A cheap nylon/plastic T handle..Drilled out to take the shaft diamater..and then cut in half..and then two screws either side to clamp the two halves to the shaft..That might work..but a bit of a hassle.
Do you know anyone else with a slightly shorter paddle that you could borrow?..That'd be the easiest way.. :D
DJ
I switched from a Kialoha Kole paddle (9" blade) to a 6.5" Infinity otter tail paddle and my shoulder pain decreased dramatically. There is much less pull resistance with the narrower bladed Infinity. I've tried the Kole and the Shaka Pu'u since, and the increased pull resistance always makes my shoulders hurt. Less resistance, more reps = excellent wave catching ability with less shoulder pain. If you SUP a lot, it's worth the $300 bucks.
You could attach a short angled shaft (maybe five inches) to your paddle with the T on it. You need a fishmouthed joint on the angled piece. I could cut you one with my joint jigger if I was in Portland. Its a tool that every race car fabricator has to have. You can fake one by using a hole saw the same diameter as the tubing you're cutting. 45 degree angle cut, lots of helicopter tape (or gorilla duct tape) and off you go.
the shaft will be a little bent at your lower hand, but not much.
one thing i've learned through the spending of a big bunch o' tons o' money on paddles for this sport is, it's probably not just the length that makes the difference but the length plus the weight plus the blade size and shape plus various intangibles i know nothing about. my point being, i have shorter paddles that i don't like but that doesn't mean i wouldn't like the werner at a shorter length. i've tried (and own) an infinity but for some reason the blade size and i just don't get along; i went from it to the werner and my wave count zoomed; go figure.
maybe ponobill's onto something but for the life of me i couldn't understand a word he said :D . "fishmouthed joint" -- what the hell is that, bill? :D
anyway, thanks all for the input. maybe i'll go out to the shed and stare at my werner for another ten minutes, see what happens then.
well, standing outside did nothing, as per usual. so i came back inside and started noodling around on google and, through a patent search, found the following food for thought. (actually, the last one is not about the current topic but is interesting nonethless; it details a mirror mount for a paddle, so you can see just how big that big one is that's looming up on yer ass ...)
Yeah, it's hard to explain how to do things in words, pictures are almost completely necessary. But fishmouth isn't that hard. picture a tube, now make a perpendicular cut through the tube with a holesaw of the same diameter as the tube. The result is a curved end that looks like a fish mouth. If you pressed that tube at a 90 degree angle against one of the same diameter the edges of the joint would follow the second tube without a gap--perfect for welding one tube to another (as in making a roll cage. Scroll back through the entries in www.allaluminumtour.com (http://www.allaluminumtour.com) for a ways and you'll see why I know about this stuff). If you held the holesaw at an angle to the tube as you made your cut the resulting fishmouth would let you weld that tube to another at that same angle without any gaps.
In the case of an auxiliary paddle handle, the angled fishmouth would let you mate the stub handle to the real handle nicely--well enough to hold it in place with wads 'o tape.
Here's what a joint jigger looks like: http://www.jointjigger.com/ (http://www.jointjigger.com/)
I must be lucky.....or you guys are all just old.... ;D. I'm paddling my spanker. Putting in lots of miles, paddling HARD, and all its doing is building muscle. I get the good ache of a workout and my shoulders are getting huge. Must be the roids.... ;D...JK. But it really does feel like this is reversing the aging process for me. The change has been so dramatic I can't believe it.
I used to have a joint jigger when I was young but it required cigarette papers.
Just wondering... ???
Does anyone else get an itchy feeling in their shoulders.
I often wake in the middle of the night with a itchy feeling deep in my shoulder muscle.
Maybe it's torn muscles healing or something like that?
DJ
I do get that! Not bad enough to wake me but its definitely there. I also get very tight between the shoulder blades
It must be an 'old-fart' thing then.. ;D
DJ
I have been out of the water for 6 weeks now with shoulder burstitis. It totally sh_ts me. The pain is less now after many anti-imflamitories and physio sessions. The worst thing is I am not really sure what caused it. It started with some clicking in the shoulder then developed. I had some shoulder pain near the end of prone surfing sessions but I foolishly pushed through it. Cos I windsurf, surf and SUP, I can't really pin it down what initially caused it. At the moment I plan to re start slowly from about mid June. I think I will need to concentrate on my stoke and keeping my upper elbow down. I wonder if I should buy a wood paddle? I am using a C4 about 7 inches longer than my height. Had a few tow in sessions which has got me through but now my ski broke down. uuurrrrgggg...........
But anyhow putting things in perspective, I pitty those poor buggers in Burma...
That's a bummer Scotty...Ask your doctor about a cortizone injection into the joint..That helped mine heaps back when I had a similar injury from painting the ceilings at home.
Yes it is a shame about the poor bugger in Burma..I keep thinking about that cool vid of the girl paddling with her foot on the paddle.
btw...imo the C4 paddles are very stiff...I would suggest trying a Werner Spanker or Kialoa or even a Quick Blade...they're all much softer in the shaft than the C4.
DJ
Any of those in sold in Australia? What about wood paddles?
I did the cortisone injection a few years back to buy me time for the up coming windsurf season and did more damage than good. I went from a partial tear to a complete tear of the rotor cuff.
Definitely ask your doctor.
Yep,
I have heard back things about cortisone. I am going to persist for without one I think.
Hey DJ,
What do you think about the GSI paddles? I can get one a bit cheaper and the fiberglass composite one may have a bit more flex to help my shoulder?Paddles
Promo-
We have developed a range of paddles for use with Stand Up Boards.
There are two constructions; firstly, a carbon (blade, shaft and handle) and secondly a fiberglass composite option.
Both paddles weigh approximately 800 grams, so they are light. The benefit of the carbon is the stiffness. The carbon allows the maximum amount of your effort to be transferred to torque giving you maximum thrust per stroke. The composite paddle isn't quite as stiff, reducing your output slightly, but it is still very high quality.
The handles are not glued in place and allow the paddler to adjust the length of the paddle 6 - 8 inches above their height before they glue it into place.
The blades are 81/2" and give great performance no matter if you are in the surf or on flat water.
Both paddles come with a deluxe protective carry bag.
Quote from: Scotty Mac on May 09, 2008, 11:25:51 PM
Hey DJ,
What do you think about the GSI paddles? I can get one a bit cheaper and the fiberglass composite one may have a bit more flex to help my shoulder?Paddles
Promo-
We have developed a range of paddles for use with Stand Up Boards.
There are two constructions; firstly, a carbon (blade, shaft and handle) and secondly a fiberglass composite option.
Both paddles weigh approximately 800 grams, so they are light. The benefit of the carbon is the stiffness. The carbon allows the maximum amount of your effort to be transferred to torque giving you maximum thrust per stroke. The composite paddle isn't quite as stiff, reducing your output slightly, but it is still very high quality.
The handles are not glued in place and allow the paddler to adjust the length of the paddle 6 - 8 inches above their height before they glue it into place.
The blades are 81/2" and give great performance no matter if you are in the surf or on flat water.
Both paddles come with a deluxe protective carry bag.
Scotty...The main thing with the cortisone is that they get the right spot inside the shoulder joint.
My doctor said that it's a 25% success rate at getting it right..but if they miss it's no big deal..it just doesn't work...I was lucky with my doctor..He got it right first go...and defiantly did help me.
Re the paddle...I have a GSI paddle...It's a Naish carbon (same thing IMO)..and at first I loved it..but after using a Werner Spanker and only felt a Kialoa..the GSI feels very fat..and stiff...With fatness being the big drawback I think.
I have not seen a Quick blade yet but I heard that they flex nice also.
Quote.."The benefit of the carbon is the stiffness"...I don't agree..The benefit is the flex or spring..IMO.
My local store (SHQ) sells Werner and Kialoa..Both are great and worth the high price..IMO..and should help your shoulder heaps.
I've not yet tryed a wood paddle..I hope to buy a Whiskey Jack one day so I will know how they compair with carbon.
DJ
What about the C4 fiberglass or C4 hybrid with the wood shaft? I have a friend going to Hawaii soon, I could get one picked up?
Scotty, have they done an MRI where they inject dye to see if you have anything torn?
Keep up with the PT and do your home exercises. religiously.
I had a cortisone shot 4 mo ago, NOW I am back where I was, shoulder hurts, sleeping is a pain. OH well.
I shortened my paddle and that really helped a little shorter than shaka overhead
Best to you
M
Thanks M,
What happened? Did it not heal? Whats you next move? I have not had an MRI. As with most of these things, see if time heals then look further at it after. I can't imagine its a tear because do not actually remember injuring it. The pain just came on over weeks. Its been about 7 weeks since I stopped everthing and its definetly better but not gone. I give it anotehr month then if its not healed, I will look further. I hear mixed opinions about cortisone. Not sure I am keen to go there.
Regards,
Scott
Scotty....I've been through some shoulder problems and will do anything to avoid surgery.
After you've given your shoulder a good rest...You might consider getting one of these.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fz6kXAlacdg&feature=user
They are sold to hospitals and physiotherapists to use with patients with shoulder problems.
They build shoulder strength by working both muscles and tendons with very little actual shoulder movement...Just a thought.
DJ
Hey DJ,
Thanks but I cant see any picture. What is it?
Quote from: Scotty Mac on May 19, 2008, 04:50:03 AM
Hey DJ,
Thanks but I cant see any picture. What is it?
Your computer must be blocking youtube or something..when you get a chance watch that vid on another computer.
Or Google Bodyblade... http://www.bodyblade.com/
DJ
Quote from: DavidJohn on May 19, 2008, 08:39:18 AM
Quote from: Scotty Mac on May 19, 2008, 04:50:03 AM
Hey DJ,
Thanks but I cant see any picture. What is it?
Your computer must be blocking youtube or something..when you get a chance watch that vid on another computer.
Or Google Bodyblade... http://www.bodyblade.com/
DJ
I agree with DJ, the bodyblade did wonders for my shoulders. I blew out my rotator cuff muscles a couple of years ago while rock climbing. I started out barely being able to handle the bodyblade and not being able to lift my arms higher than my chest to climbing again about 2 months later.
Yoga helped get my full range of motion back too.
Mike
Thanks Mike,
Which bodyblade do you have and whats your weight? At $300 plus for the pro model and the number of ab dudes on the web sites it seems a bit sus?
Thanks again,
Scott
Quote from: Scotty Mac on May 20, 2008, 01:25:52 AM
Thanks Mike,
Which bodyblade do you have and whats your weight? At $300 plus for the pro model and the number of ab dudes on the web sites it seems a bit sus?
Thanks again,
Scott
Scott,
I have the bodyblade pro and I weigh 150 pounds. Knowing what I know now, I wouldn't get the pro again since I use it when I'm rehabing my shoulder or when it feels tweaked. In other words, when my shoulder are weak as hell, I really don't need much resistance at all (which sounds like you're in that situation). Now I would go for the classic and save yourself $50. If you are like me and only use it when your shoulders are weak, the classic would work great. You also don't need to get 2 of them, I only have one and switch hands. I think the infomercials use 2 since they are designed for a workout and not rehab.
I don't think how much you weigh makes a difference on which model to get since it all depends on how weak your shoulders are. Mine were so jacked up when I bought it that I was barely about to vibrate it.
As for the guys with the abs, I don't have that but I don't use the bodyblade as a workout device, just as a great rehab tool. I do have to say that after my bodyblade sessions, it is a good core workout.
The other thing that helped was yoga and specifically the "downward dog" position. It took at least a month or so to break all the scar tissue and gain back my full range of motion.
Now that you have me talking about this, I'm going to break out the bodyblade again and make sure to do some preventative exercises.
Good luck.
Mike
Thanks for the advice Mike,
I am 195 lbs. Do you still recommend the classic?
Regards,
Scott
Quote from: Scotty Mac on May 20, 2008, 06:55:39 AM
Thanks for the advice Mike,
I am 195 lbs. Do you still recommend the classic?
Regards,
Scott
Scott,
If you're going to be using it for rehab and sporatically afterwards, then yes I think the classic would work for you. If you are going to keep using this regularly after your shoulder is back to full strength, then I would get the pro. For me, after my shoulder was back to normal I didn't do it anymore even though I know all the benefits since I'm not real good at maintaining an exercise routine. All my sports are based on playing.
Mike
I'd bet you could get the same benefit from a simple homemade version of this. $300 for a piece of fiberglass with weighted ends seems a bit much. Cut a strip of 1/4" ply 2" wide x 4' long, wrap the center with tape for a handle and the ends with some weight and more tape....voila...homemade for about $10. Vary the length and or weight to suit. You could probably make a 1/2 dozen of varying lengths and weights for $30.
Quote from: stoneaxe on May 20, 2008, 07:59:02 AM
I'd bet you could get the same benefit from a simple homemade version of this. $300 for a piece of fiberglass with weighted ends seems a bit much. Cut a strip of 1/4" ply 2" wide x 4' long, wrap the center with tape for a handle and the ends with some weight and more tape....voila...homemade for about $10. Vary the length and or weight to suit. You could probably make a 1/2 dozen of varying lengths and weights for $30.
There is definitely a much cheaper DIY way for this as you said. I've heard of people using an old ski that they hacksawed down to length. I think the $300 listed was assuming 2 of the pro model. For the classic, it is $100. Still more than the plywood method but I think the difference is in the flex. When I get mine going at full rate, the ends move over 12-inches each way. With plywood, I'd be a bit leary in going that much BUT if this is only used for rehab, your shoulder wouldn't be able to generate that much full force anyway.
Quote from: Scotty Mac on May 20, 2008, 06:55:39 AM
Thanks for the advice Mike,
I am 195 lbs. Do you still recommend the classic?
Regards,
Scott
Scott when I bought mine I was a bit shocked by the high price down under and went with the classic because it's cheaper they didn't have the pro..and they suggested the classic anyway.
They rang me a couple of days after and said that "they now had a free bag for mine if I would like to pop in and pick it up..and btw..we now have the Pro in stock if I would like to try it".
I said..Isn't it too late now I have bought the classic and they said if I chose to swap and pay the difference that's ok...Anyway..I tried the Pro and loved it..It's so much bigger and beefier..and being a big guy myself it felt much better...btw I wanted it more for strength building than rehab.
I now have the pro..expencive..yes..but so is most gym equipment..and also medical and doctors bills...It's easy for people to think these are like those late night infomercials and gimmick ab trainers..but it's not.
I'm sure you would have no problem selling it after if you want to...and like climbbikesuf said..the classic is probably the best way to go for rehab purpose.
DJ
Thank DJ and Mike, I will check it out.
I'm actually thinking i may have some shoulder pain from the lower hand pulling the paddle rather than the top hand pushing the paddle. I'm actually not sure if it is caused from when my hand is on top or when it is on bottom but i'm suspicious that it is being caused by pulling. anyone have this problem and/or any solutions.
That's an old post you have added to, not sure I can help you with the question you asked because I have not been SUP recently. I acually sorted my shoulder injury by taking a 10 week rest and starting up again gradually. I found one particular stretch most helpful. Funny enough last weekend I surfed about 5 hours and my non - injured side pulled up sore. So now I have started stretching that one out....
Quote from: photosettle on August 14, 2008, 08:16:55 PM
I'm actually thinking i may have some shoulder pain from the lower hand pulling the paddle rather than the top hand pushing the paddle. I'm actually not sure if it is caused from when my hand is on top or when it is on bottom but i'm suspicious that it is being caused by pulling. anyone have this problem and/or any solutions.
Its hard to say whether the pulling or pushing is the true culprit, my guess would be that the pulling would be harder on the shoulder because the pulling force would work to pull the shoulder out of its socket, versus the pushing force which would tend to compress the shoulder into the socket.
My non-medical opinion, learned by suffering (or "working through") continual shoulder issues starting after a motorcycle accident 20+ years ago, is that shoulder problems can be caused by a lot of issues, especially like bursitis or a partial tear of the rotator cuff which you might not even be aware of. Both of which I had and was able to keep going for many years, until my biceps tendon finally broke and I went in and had the surgery.
The strengthening exercises discussed above are good practice for anyone who uses their shoulder in a repetitive motion exercise (like paddling). What I was instructed by my physical therapists in my latest PT after my shoulder surgery in February was to focus on preventing my shoulder from coming out of the socket, which can occur by over-reaching my stroke. I posted in another thread about the "power U" technique to keep the power coming from the core, and reducing the torque on the shoulders. I would think this should help reduce shoulder strain.
I was getting sme shoulder pain in my left shoulder been getting less and less as I think my technique is imporoving and the supporting muscles are getting stronger but since I changed to my new werner spanker paddle I am not getting any shoulder pain at all....its an awsome paddle they have just come into the UK.
Adrian.
Quote from: flipperade on August 17, 2008, 04:46:19 AM
I was getting sme shoulder pain in my left shoulder been getting less and less as I think my technique is imporoving and the supporting muscles are getting stronger but since I changed to my new werner spanker paddle I am not getting any shoulder pain at all....its an awsome paddle they have just come into the UK.
Adrian.
I found the same thing when I changed to a Kialoa paddle..It's amazing what a difference these good paddles make.
DJ
wow. 2277 views (now 2278). what does it mean? i don't know. is it a record? i don't know. but it sure is a lot of views, so a lot of shoulders must be in pain. what does that mean? probably only that a lot of shoulders are in paid, er, pain. and that i should stop with the gosling's black label already. over and out and back to rubbing Thera-Gesic on my shoulders ...