Latest XPS Evolution: Orange Crush

[Beasho]

I keep posting these builds hopefully to motivate others to see where 'we' can push the limits of board designs.

8' 8" x 19" x 128.6 liters  10 lbs 11.3 oz  / 4.9 kg  HL = 8.3 lbs / 100 Liters

[Beasho]

This ended up among the lightest design structure in the world for any foil board as measured by pounds per 100 liters.  When Elon Mush built the first commercial rocket company in history he observed:

"If you're not adding things back in at least 10% of the time, you're clearly not deleting enough. . . the bias will be to add things 'in case', "but you can make 'in case' arguments for so many things."

Design is as follows:
•   XPS Core closed cell waterproof – Density 1.45 lbs / cubic foot
•   Center of Buoyancy measured with Naked Blank
        o   Estimated CG ended up 1.5" behind Center of Buoyancy aka balance point with tracks
•   10" Box centered 9.3" behind estimated CG  (Note CG did not move after lamination)
        o   Box centered 10.8" behind Center of Buoyancy
        o   Reinforced with 11 Vertical Carbon Arrow shafts deck to deck
•   2 ½" x 8.9 oz Full length Unidirectional Carbon Stringer Top and Bottom
•   3 x 5.8 oz Carbon Deck – Triaxial layup 30 / 60 / 90 degree bias
•   1 layer 3.7 oz S-Glass Bottom
•   1 layer 2.2 oz Kevlar nose and tail
•   1 x 1.5" x 3.7 oz S-Glass Strip on Front Rails for paddle protection

I kept a record of all time and materials.  Total time was 62.5 hours, Materials cost $460 + $15 for Breather and $10 of Blue Masking Tape + $15 . .  call it = $500 

[Beasho]

Full record of Time and Steps involved.

I am not sure of the commercial Viability of XPS but I know:

1) It will never gain weight as it ages
2) You can shape it relatively easily
3) If you DON'T make it waterproof it will NOT delaminate (a lot of counter positives in that statement)
4) Treat the design like a foamie and the inherent strength of the XPS will work in your favor allowing for a light final product

[SUPladomi]

Awesome work Beasho! If I were more handy, I would definitely try your board construction.

[Subber]

Excellent presentation...really enjoyed watching it.

[burchas]

Fantastic job Beasho. Thanks for sharing.

Regarding Commercial viability of XPS seems like Appletree is doing very well with their variant of XPS.
If I'm not mistaken, at least one model of Blue Planet foil boards include an XPS or similar core.

All my boards in the past 4 years were made with XPS core.

This dude http://www.newind.net took it even one step further. Increased potential wieght saving.
No doubt a bitch to produce without CNC but maybe you can make a hot-wire variant to speed-up the process?

[Dontsink]

Fantastic job Beasho. Thanks for sharing.

Regarding Commercial viability of XPS seems like Appletree is doing very well with their variant of XPS.
If I'm not mistaken, at least one model of Blue Planet foil boards include an XPS or similar core.

All my boards in the past 4 years were made with XPS core.

This dude http://www.newind.net took it even one step further. Increased potential wieght saving.
No doubt a bitch to produce without CNC but maybe you can make a hot-wire variant to speed-up the process?

I hollow my XPS blanks by hand.It is a royal pain but it does lighten the board and specially the ends.They ride sweet.

4.1 kg for a 75ltr 5.9 x 17
Blank went from 2450gr to 1920gr when hollowed(530gr saving).It makes tge average density go from 32 or 33 kg/m3 (XPS standard) to about 26 kg/m3.

2.7 kg for the 38ltr 6 x 17
Blank went from 1220gr to 1020gr when hollowed.Savings of a measly 200gr...but they "feel" like more IMHO.

Couple a light build with good foilbox placenent and a board becomes magic to ride.Super responsive even with 6feet lenght or more.
My foilbox position is pretty much identical to Beasho's , i place the middle of my tracks 30.5cm behind the CenterOfBuoyancy of the blank.

https://mega.nz/folder/wXxQUYwL#FJfgjkzz09k2j_6g8RThKQ

[Beasho]

Great Stuff Guys!

Orange Crush is still going.  110 sessions later.  It worked fantastically in the US East Coast.  aka 1.5 - 5 feet @ 7 seconds all summer long with the Axis 1401 (90% of the time), Axis 1201 (7% of the time) and Axis 1121 (3% of the time). 

With regards to the approach and weight of the XPS builds it appears as though people are still using traditional, waterproof, thicker lamination layers.  XPS can be its lightest with thin skin vs. coring the hull.  Target 8.5 to 9 lbs per 100 liters.

PS: Made the cover of the Providence Journal with the Orange Crush

[Dontsink]

So the thinnest lam areas are the bits of nose/tail  deck that only have 2.2oz Kevlar and the nose/tail bottoms with only 3.7oz S-glass right?.
Which is doing better in regards of dings,bumps etc...?
I would like to move away from hollowing XPS and might try an ultralight lam like yours.
What was the reasoning for using Kevlar on top and S-Glass on bottom?.
Would you repeat this lam schedule on next one?.
Thx!!

[ninja tuna]

Great Stuff Guys!



PS: Made the cover of the Providence Journal with the Orange Crush

Cool!

[Dontsink]

Mmm...
That Foamular XPS you are using is way lighter than the Danopren or Soprema XPS i can find in Europe...
Foamular is 27kg/m3
Soprema or Danopren are 33kg/m3

So a 100lt board of Foamular would be half a kg lighter than Danopren with same lam.
That is pretty much the saving i get with hollowing like a madman... 

Will search for lighter XPS but it may be some EU regulation,dunno.

[Beasho]

So the thinnest lam areas are the bits of nose/tail  deck that only have 2.2oz Kevlar and the nose/tail bottoms with only 3.7oz S-glass right?.  CORRECT
Which is doing better in regards of dings,bumps etc...?
I would like to move away from hollowing XPS and might try an ultralight lam like yours.
What was the reasoning for using Kevlar on top and S-Glass on bottom?.
Would you repeat this lam schedule on next one? - YES!
Thx!!

This is my second board with the exact same lamination strategy (Build #3 10' x 23" and #4 8'8" x 19"). 

3.7 oz S-Glass on the bottom.  S-Glass offers toughness, stiffness, decent ding resistance and sandability.  I use this on the bottom of the board for this combination of characteristics.  The uni-directional stringer runs the full length for added stiffness.  Lightly sand the bottom and spray paint.

2.2 oz Kevlar on the top of the board.  The Kevlar does NOT sand or finish well.  So what you laminate is what you get.  It is half the weight of the S-Glass but very impact and ding resistant.  The top of the board is not as critical for smoothness and tends to take most of the wear when the board is on the ground upside down.  Kevlar is very bad in compression.  But the Uni-Directional Carbon is designed to carry the compressive and tensile loads on the top and bottom of the board.

My build #2 had Kevlar exclusively wrapping the board, top, bottom and rails, outside of the Deck (Cassette) area.  The nose ended up with minor buckles lines from the board flexing.  Good news is that the Kevlar will never fail, its essentially like braided fishing line and can bend and flex forever.  But it was indicative of the compressive limitations of Kevlar.

None of the hollowed boards have ended up lighter than this lamination approach.  The amount of work is huge and the required additional waterproof lamination adds MORE weight than can be saved having a porous, thin single lamination layer.  There is also the added risk that the hollows breach and take on water.   

This lamination approach has worked and these 2 boards have 225 sessions between them. 

[Dontsink]

So the thinnest lam areas are the bits of nose/tail  deck that only have 2.2oz Kevlar and the nose/tail bottoms with only 3.7oz S-glass right?.  CORRECT
Which is doing better in regards of dings,bumps etc...?
I would like to move away from hollowing XPS and might try an ultralight lam like yours.
What was the reasoning for using Kevlar on top and S-Glass on bottom?.
Would you repeat this lam schedule on next one? - YES!
Thx!!

This is my second board with the exact same lamination strategy (Build #3 10' x 23" and #4 8'8" x 19"). 

3.7 oz S-Glass on the bottom.  S-Glass offers toughness, stiffness, decent ding resistance and sandability.  I use this on the bottom of the board for this combination of characteristics.  The uni-directional stringer runs the full length for added stiffness.  Lightly sand the bottom and spray paint.

2.2 oz Kevlar on the top of the board.  The Kevlar does NOT sand or finish well.  So what you laminate is what you get.  It is half the weight of the S-Glass but very impact and ding resistant.  The top of the board is not as critical for smoothness and tends to take most of the wear when the board is on the ground upside down.  Kevlar is very bad in compression.  But the Uni-Directional Carbon is designed to carry the compressive and tensile loads on the top and bottom of the board.

My build #2 had Kevlar exclusively wrapping the board, top, bottom and rails, outside of the Deck (Cassette) area.  The nose ended up with minor buckles lines from the board flexing.  Good news is that the Kevlar will never fail, its essentially like braided fishing line and can bend and flex forever.  But it was indicative of the compressive limitations of Kevlar.

None of the hollowed boards have ended up lighter than this lamination approach.  The amount of work is huge and the required additional waterproof lamination adds MORE weight than can be saved having a porous, thin single lamination layer.  There is also the added risk that the hollows breach and take on water. 

This lamination approach has worked and these 2 boards have 225 sessions between them. 

Ok, thx for the answer!.
It is very tempting even with my denser and heavier foam.
Your lam schedule or similar  should come out at 4.6kg for a 100ltr board with Danopren foam.Let's say 4.8 kg with a bigger pad than your minimalistic thing
It is still lighter than my lam on a hollow board (i could get 4.84kg ).
And the time and work saving is huge...

I do not have kevlar but i think Innegra 100grams would do a nice job for top&bottom at nose and tail.It is superlight,does not suck water,impact resistant...

Got to run the numbers again but i am liking the concept so far

[Beasho]

I wouldn't worry too much about the Kevlar vs. Innegra.

If I had to use 2 materials it would be just Carbon and S-Glass. 

This was my first build using XPS, featherlight 1.4 oz E-Glass on Nose and Tail, with 3.7 oz S-Glass on Rails and for added stiffening.  Nothing "in the ocean" was going to ding the board, but I put my toes through the forward rail, bumped things in the garage . . . and the 1.4 oz was a bit TOO extreme and thin. 

3.7 oz Glass much more robust.  2.2 oz Kevlar slightly lighter, tough but BAD in compression and flex. 

And - Don't worry about the water absorbing, rejecting . . XPS is waterproof, Epoxy is waterproof, the fibers can handle water influx and dryout.  The key is porousity.  The mistake I made, and had a slight delamination in the standing area of the Orange Crush, was putting a gloss coat under my feet to better deal with Wax. Quick fix was drilling several holes, injecting Great Stuff poly foam, letting it expand through the holes, dry and - FIXED.

[Dontsink]

Ok
The reason i wanna try the Innegra is...i already have 4sqm of 100gr and i want to use it

Plus i just run some very unscientific tests stabbing with a screwdriver through different layups i had around.
Innegra 2x100gr and 100gr are the hardest to puncture of the lot,by far.They also seem to suck little resin.
It does feel softy in single layer but they all do.In overlap it feels OK for deck and bottom edges

From best go worst in terms of puncture resistance,:
-Innegra 2x100gr
-Innegra 100gr
-Carbon&Innegra 150gr
-Glass (Silione Tafetan) 200gr
-Carbon (plain weave) 160gr

I once tested Carbon spread Tow 100gr and 2x100gr and it did pretty awful, no stabbing needed just press a bit and in it goes...

So i think for nose and tail i will go with innegra 100gr and rail overlap,some Unicarbon stringer as you did and VacBag for a dry,porous layup.

Standing part Carbon 100gr and Innegra 100gr plus reinforcements i think.

We will see how it goes ,thx Beasho!.