Author Topic: Jibe -- Timing the Wing Transition?  (Read 2861 times)

jrobmaui

  • Waikiki Status
  • *
  • Posts: 8
    • View Profile
Jibe -- Timing the Wing Transition?
« on: August 23, 2022, 07:54:43 AM »
How do people think about timing the wing transition?  I'm getting conflicting inputs between waiting and not waiting, and on the water I see some people really spinning the wing like a pizza dough maker, and other not.  Are you actively twisting the wing?  Does the wing follow you to the new tack or does it lead and facilitate to the new tack?  Sometimes when I manipulate the wing at about 12 o'clock or dead downwind I find myself pushed back and out of the turn.

Thanks,
Jrob

StellaBlu

  • Waikiki Status
  • *
  • Posts: 45
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Jibe -- Timing the Wing Transition?
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2022, 08:08:04 AM »
It really depends on the circumstances.  If your sail is properly powered (wind blowing faster than you are moving downwind) then you can stall the wing with your front hand and take your time coming around the gybe and bringing the wing around to the new tack.  If you are underpowered (you are moving downwind at the same speed or faster than the wind), then you need to be more deliberate in managing the sail through the turn and bringing the sail around.  That can mean flipping the sail around quickly, or it can mean forcing the sail to stall (pushing the trailing edge up with the back hand).  I wouldn't really say I "twist" the sail around - you can usually use the wind (whether real or apparent) to get the wing around.

surfcowboy

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 4856
    • View Profile
Re: Jibe -- Timing the Wing Transition?
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2022, 07:53:27 PM »
Turn first. Hold the wing overhead. Just keep turning til you make it around every time before falling off. (Yeah this will be hard to just do and not get impatient.)

Once you are consistently making it around the turn the wing is easy.

Also, as was said, the technique varies widely according to the wind speed. So you will get conflicting reports based on when and where someone rides. Early, late, push, let it flow, the wing is the easy part when you can stop thinking about the turn.

If you're a great surf foiler the learning curve will be faster. If not you gotta learn to turn a foil.

Hdip

  • Sunset Status
  • ****
  • Posts: 429
    • View Profile
Re: Jibe -- Timing the Wing Transition?
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2022, 08:08:16 PM »
Lots of good explanation and demonstration in this youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__wwlxKiZqo&t=3s

jrobmaui

  • Waikiki Status
  • *
  • Posts: 8
    • View Profile
Re: Jibe -- Timing the Wing Transition?
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2022, 08:33:31 AM »
Had more success yesterday, and realized that the unanimous advice to "forget about the wing and concentrate on surfing the foil through the turn" seems intuitive but is maybe not so easy to implement in practice, especially for a long time windsurfer.  As you surf through the turn it is very easy to get distracted by the wing, it's sitting there, silently demanding you do something with it.  When I really achieved 100% concentration on the foiling everything fell into place, the wing appeared in the right place without any manipulation, the process seemed simple, and I only wrapped the leash around my neck one time. 

jrob





PonoBill

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 25457
    • View Profile
Re: Jibe -- Timing the Wing Transition?
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2022, 08:25:03 PM »
Yes, it's critical to focus on turning the foil and ignore the wing. At least at first, or for as long as you remain an intermediate winger like me. If I focus on the wing in any way, I blow the jibe. It's even more critical for tacks. Finish the turn, figure out where the wing needs to be and move it there. But really, the wing will go where it needs to be by itself. You just need to deal with swapping hands.

Especially true for me since I switch feet in the middle of the turn. I have enough going on to keep me entertained without playing with the wing. The people spinning the wing like a pizza are on a different level. They have enough of the required steps committed to muscle memory that they can fuck around with the wing and still finish the turn.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

JohnnyTsunami

  • Rincon Status
  • ***
  • Posts: 108
    • View Profile
Re: Jibe -- Timing the Wing Transition?
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2022, 05:37:23 PM »
Once you can actually get through the full jibe and your brain can somewhat automate the process, then you can work on your wing handling.

surfcowboy

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 4856
    • View Profile
Re: Jibe -- Timing the Wing Transition?
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2022, 07:03:40 AM »
Thx for this. Went out on my smallest board yesterday and immediately blew two jibes. Remembered this advice and made every one after.

Also I'll add that while you work on this the next move is  to practice holding the wing nicely overhead. If you do, even in the lightest wind it ends up pretty much where you need it.

jrobmaui

  • Waikiki Status
  • *
  • Posts: 8
    • View Profile
Re: Jibe -- Timing the Wing Transition?
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2022, 08:06:38 AM »
Now that we've foiled  around and we're momentarily in switch stance with the wing in its new place, would anybody like to comment on the next 3 seconds, how to foil away stably on toeside?  My falls at this point are nearly all to windward.  Trying to get myself to not rush things, maybe flatten the board a little at 10:30 (if 12 o'clock straight downwind) and engage the wing gradually.

Any other advice/imagery appreciated.

jrob





headmount

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 5750
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Jibe -- Timing the Wing Transition?
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2022, 11:12:33 AM »
Now that we've foiled  around and we're momentarily in switch stance with the wing in its new place, would anybody like to comment on the next 3 seconds, how to foil away stably on toeside?  My falls at this point are nearly all to windward.  Trying to get myself to not rush things, maybe flatten the board a little at 10:30 (if 12 o'clock straight downwind) and engage the wing gradually.

Any other advice/imagery appreciated.

jrob
What he said.  This is the concertina wire for me, as in the 'Great Escape'.  Thank you jrob for expressing it clearly.

surfcowboy

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 4856
    • View Profile
Re: Jibe -- Timing the Wing Transition?
« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2022, 03:18:07 PM »
Like all wing mistakes and challenges I had this one too. For me it was sort of sitting more back on my back foot (hard to explain) and also twisting my waist harder  so I could face more forward with my wing back further.

Feel free to feel like a chicken winged idiot when you start. Whatever it takes to not fall for the next 2-3 sessions. It'll come I promise. Gwen (French guy) and Damien LeRoy have a good video on it that helped me but the more I can get my waist to twist the better I sail.

As I always say, winging has 3 stages: Impossible, Wonky, I Got It. You are officially in stage 2, wonky. I'll bet you dial it in 2-3 more sessions.

bigmtn

  • Rincon Status
  • ***
  • Posts: 170
    • View Profile
Re: Jibe -- Timing the Wing Transition?
« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2022, 03:21:56 PM »
If there are any waves, make your jibe on the wave/swell so you can just foil along toe side riding the swell as you add more wing power.  That's how I learned toeside,  jibe onto small swell let the swell give me power while I figure out the arm/body position to make the wing feel more comfortable, then add more wing power, turn more upwind, and you're good to go.

MikeLima

  • Malibu Status
  • **
  • Posts: 74
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Jibe -- Timing the Wing Transition?
« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2022, 05:41:18 PM »
Here’s how I do it and think about it: look at the line you want to carve on the water, follow it, but sort of allow the wing to keep flying on the old tack as you pass downwind. When the wing gets as far from your body as it can go, yank it over and almost throw it to your front hand. This makes the wing experience apparent wind on one tack then immediately the other. Idk, works for me.
77kg rider
Armstrong 39L wing/surf
Armstrong 88 wing/SUP

Kujira foils
NoLimitz masts

Duotone unit 2022 3/4/5;dlab6

surfcowboy

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 4856
    • View Profile
Re: Jibe -- Timing the Wing Transition?
« Reply #13 on: August 29, 2022, 10:18:55 PM »
Also, let yourself lose ground. Don't try to stay upwind, just let yourself go.

Kalani Lei

  • Waikiki Status
  • *
  • Posts: 3
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Jibe -- Timing the Wing Transition?
« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2022, 07:32:57 PM »
Little late on this but what helps me to jibe is slingshotting into it—-one big pull to give me extra speed to complete the turn and remain on foil. I also wait until a gust hits (on a less windy day). I sometimes have difficulty staying on foil after a jibe if I time it when the wind drops..

 


SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2022, SimplePortal