Big Waves, Women and Competition

[Beasho]

Nothing better for a bunch of old white guys that like to SUP to debate than women competing at Big Wave Surfing:

[Beasho]

Homepage here:
https://www.surfline.com/surf-news/shechange-fight-gender-equality-big-wave-surfing/36323

I was talking with Haley the other day about people surfing in Pacifica, CA.  This is the place that everyone in San Francisco learns to surf.  He observed that 19 out of 20 guys in the lineup suck at surfing.  When it comes to assessing the women the sample size is too small.  1 or at most 2 women for every 20 guys.  Basically 95% suck so . . . they all suck. 

The exception comes when he actually recognizes the woman and knows that she doesn't suck. 

The challenge with Mavericks is once again the sample size.  On a given day if there are 60 guys out there might be 1 (one) woman. 

Even when there are 60 people in the lineup there might only be 10 people that are REALLY GOOD.   And - Only 2 or 3 that are willing to take off in the Bowl - e.g. the Death Zone aka F'ing FLEA level crazy.  The math is pretty simple.   

Jeff Clark once said to me "Oh it's crowded out there?  Just paddle to the Bowl and go catch a wave."  Ugggggg - NO THANK YOU!

[FRP]

Beasho

Interesting question and over the years women have been held back by male dominated professions. It is clear now that not only can women compete when given equal footing in every profession that they have entered but have excelled and brought much needed attributes with them. Women in Canada now out number men entering both medicine and veterinary medicine because of one simple fact......their applications are stronger.

Personally however I do believe that women should compete on an equal footing, no special classes and if the entrance requirements are met or exceeded they should be there competing with the men. The problem however is that bias in the selection process is difficult to control for especially with a male dominated sport. There is no physiologic reason why women should not excell at big wave surfing. Surfing is an interesting sport that relies on balance, flexibility, style, grace and last strength and power.

Cheers

Bob

[Area 10]

No doubt women could dominate pretty much any walk of life they wanted. But maybe women make different choices than men. That there are unequal numbers of genders involved in an activity is not direct evidence of bias, or discrimination (although this possibility should of course be investigated).

If we are ever to achieve true gender equality, and address effectively the causes of bias and discrimination where it exists, we need to distinguish carefully and thoughtfully between decisions that are freely made (inasmuch as one can say this given gender stereotypes) and decisions that are thwarted.

Big wave riding is not a very sensible thing to do. Maybe in fact it is a reflection of a personality or temperament weakness. So maybe most women are simply too well-balanced and sensible to do it in any large number. Just because one could, does not mean one should. Would it really be a good thing to be encouraging young girls to take up big wave riding?

[supthecreek]

Seems to me that big wave riding, is big wave riding.
I doubt that a 60' wave notices the difference between 120 lbs and 185 lbs.
It gives everyone equal chance to go big....
and it will squash everyone equally.

Women are shredding all over the world....
maybe in smaller numbers, but they are defiantly upping their game.

If you are one of the best big wave riders, you should be invited to enter.
I am stoked to see women compete on equal footing at Mavericks.

The passion to ride big waves simply happens to people... it isn't encouraged.
and it's usually the person you expect the least.

[surf4food]

Big wave riding is not a very sensible thing to do. Maybe in fact it is a reflection of a personality or temperament weakness. So maybe most women are simply too well-balanced and sensible to do it in any large number. Just because one could, does not mean one should. Would it really be a good thing to be encouraging young girls to take up big wave riding?

I certainly think they shouldn't be discouraged.  And really, why should every decision be made based on whether or not it's sensible?

[Area 10]

Big wave riding is not a very sensible thing to do. Maybe in fact it is a reflection of a personality or temperament weakness. So maybe most women are simply too well-balanced and sensible to do it in any large number. Just because one could, does not mean one should. Would it really be a good thing to be encouraging young girls to take up big wave riding?

I certainly think they shouldn't be discouraged.  And really, why should every decision be made based on whether or not it's sensible?

I think you’ve misinterpreted both points I was making.

[Weasels wake]

Big wave riding is not a very sensible thing to do. Maybe in fact it is a reflection of a personality or temperament weakness. So maybe most women are simply too well-balanced and sensible to do it in any large number. Just because one could, does not mean one should. Would it really be a good thing to be encouraging young girls to take up big wave riding?

I certainly think they shouldn't be discouraged.  And really, why should every decision be made based on whether or not it's sensible?

I think you’ve misinterpreted both points I was making.

That would make two of us, I'm with s4f on that.
Also would "Maybe in fact it is a reflection of a personality or temperament weakness." be the same as some guy driving a big 4X4 truck to make up for basically the same thing, some sort of weakness?

[surfinJ]

There are some sports where women can compete head to head with a guy.

My two daughters spent years competing in horse eventing, that’s the 3 discipline dressage, show jumping and cross over fixed barriers in the woods. It is combined male and female and one of the more dangerous horse events.
And they regularly finished ahead of guys even some quite older.

If you could rank all the worlds surfers, the top girls would be way outnumbered, but still ahead of probably 95% of the guys.

Surfing is not a strength sport. It is technique and experience. They got a late start in the larger wave arena which shows in their low numbers. But with time the numbers and quality will grow.

[Beasho]

Many reasonable points.  I am leaning towards surfing being more like horseback riding.

You could actually have a mixed gender competition BUT it would take some girl that was COMPLETELY fired up on surfing with parents that reinforced the behavior from age ZERO.

Jeff Clark was talking about the negative feedback he was taking for NOT including more locals in the Mavericks competition.  "Why didn't you include Colin from Pacifica or Danny from Santa Cruz?"

Ugggg - Because they weren't good enough!

He then said "This whole argument is crazy guys.  You live right here.  If you want it GO OUT AND GET IT!" 

Being born local, or without balls, isn't enough.  Why is the guy from Brazil, or South Africa or Australia better?  Because they were NUTSO crazy and surfed all the time, even in the crap.  They surfed so much bad stuff, so much small stuff, and were so prepared (and likely CRAZY) that when they get to Mavericks they were just better.  Lucas Chumbo comes to mind.  He popped up out of no-where.   

[PonoBill]

Pointless discussion except for knucklehead organizers saying"no" to women in big wave contests. The waves sort it out. I've heard guys talking smack in Haiku, but I know they'd never say shit to Andrea Moeller. Not that she'd do anything but laugh, or give you a stern look that makes your bones liquify a little. I've been on the receiving end of that look. Just kidding, Andrea.

[Beasho]

Yesterday was the opening ceremony.

There was a heavy dose of #SurfEquity.

Full article below.  This was the cover shot of the paddle out.  Only 1 person 'Trunking' it.

https://www.dailydemocrat.com/2018/10/26/mavericks-opening-ceremony/

[Weasels wake]

And tomorrow starts the Aloha Classic from Ho'okipa, it should be an interesting week.
And yesterday I watch the live streaming of the Red Bull Rampage from Virgin Utah, it was insanely awesome, as usual, those guys are more nuts than the people out at Mavericks.

[Beasho]

And yesterday I watch the live streaming of the Red Bull Rampage from Virgin Utah, it was insanely awesome, as usual, those guys are more nuts than the people out at Mavericks.

Nuts is what nuts does.  There is no extreme version of Death.

No one has died surfing the Mavericks contest.  2 people have died surfing Mavericks Mark Foo and Sion Milosky.  You could use this as a measure of 'nuts-ness.'

To be clear this was JUST the opening ceremony.  A bunch of people get together on the beach, hugging eachother, taking pictures and doing the paddle out into the ceremonial circle.  This kicks off the official start to the Mavericks time window for the competition.  Roughly through February.