Toothpick, ultra narrow tippy race boards. What would you want to know ?

[Eagle]

"I think we'll be sub 20 within 2 years."

Thought SB might bring out a 20 Sprint for 2019 to stay ahead of the curve.  But guess there was not enough speed gain vs loss in stability to make it worthwhile for racing.  Do expect at some point there is a breakeven for that.  For flat distance maybe 20 wide.  But already 21.5 is pretty tippy for surf or rough conditions.

[Eagle]

Here is the Edge 2.0 underside sporting a quick triple concave.  It has pretty hard edges giving it quite a reassuringly stable ride.  The 22 version should be somewhat close in speed to the 21.5 Sprint.  But still expect the Sprint to have a bit more speed with its more rounded nose underside and chamfered edges.

On the other hand -> the Edge Pro at 21 might be a hair faster than the 21.5 Sprint.  Unfortunately that board was not available to demo.

http://www.onestanduppaddle.com/boards%20page/Edge

[Lake Paddler]

No. One on the new Strike and one on the Sprint.
Both are very experienced, not heavyweight paddlers.

I see. Thanks a lot for the clarification!

[Lake Paddler]

When do you plan to release your video?
I'm trying to demo some boards this week so it would be nice to know more about your experiences.

It's gone to the magazine for their editing but I kept it reasonably generic in the end (rather than being an explicit review of that board). However, if you throw a list of questions here, I'll try and answer them.

Thanks! I'll wait for the video to come out then.

[Area 10]

How deep would a concave have to be before a board could be thought of as  catamaran?

If a board had a catamaran-style arrangement for a majority of its length but then the two sides converged to a single hull type nose at the front, would it still be classed as a single hull board?

[Area 10]

Ok, so a 16 year old wins the men’s double downwind event at this year’s Columbia Gorge Challenge (Noic Garioud), besting many of the world’s best downwind specialists (including Titou, Travis, Connor etc).

And a 16 year old girl is the fastest female at the M2O (albeit on a foil).

The kids are coming. Within 5 years most top pros will be foiling. But the rest will be teenagers on boards sub-18” wide.

Gymnastics in the ocean, basically. The old men (ie. anyone over 30) are going to have to find a new sport to compete at, or they’ll just look silly.

On the upside, kids might actually want to do SUP racing then (if that’s a good thing?) It’s too terminally uncool and slow and boring for most at the moment. Which is presumably why the kids are currently doing best at the more exciting forms such as surfing, foiling and downwinding.

[JEG]

The future is good for these kids and as an old fart i'm happy to just tag along. Fiona's dw footwork on that allstar is something else but being a local makes a lot of difference.

[yugi]

How deep would a concave have to be before a board could be thought of as  catamaran?

If a board had a catamaran-style arrangement for a majority of its length but then the two sides converged to a single hull type nose at the front, would it still be classed as a single hull board?

Well, this is one of those problems we may as well not deal with until it looms.

I began to answer regarding hulls and waterlines but it get's tricky. Then I realized I was thinking about an answer to a problem that doesn't exist.

Speaking of catamarans. Are you still using your standamaran, Burkas?

[Area 10]

How deep would a concave have to be before a board could be thought of as  catamaran?

If a board had a catamaran-style arrangement for a majority of its length but then the two sides converged to a single hull type nose at the front, would it still be classed as a single hull board?

Well, this is one of those problems we may as well not deal with until it looms.

I began to answer regarding hulls and waterlines but it get's tricky. Then I realized I was thinking about an answer to a problem that doesn't exist.

Well it might loom soon. I was wondering about a custom like this as a way of reducing form drag, especially upwind, while increasing stability. Of course, there’s the usual problem of flow disturbances between the hulls.

But since I posted this, I see that the ICF have already provided an answer to my question. According to the ICF, a catamaran is anything that has more than a 5 cm deep channel between the rails:

https://www.canoeicf.com/sites/default/files/2017_icf_sup_rules.pdf

Ok, well that is I guess just one of the ways in which race regulations might inhibit sport development. One solution to the current trend for turning SUP racing into gymnastics on water might have been to allow catamarans, perhaps? I’m assuming that a wider catamaran (with the same hulls either side) will have less relative disadvantage in terms of form drag compared to a catamaran with a narrower deck, compared to the difference in form drag between wider and narrower monohull boards.

In this way, I was wondering if multihulls might be one way for old geezers to stay in the game. But apparently not. 5cms doesn’t leave much scope for experimentation. How boring!

[yugi]

I think foils will provide for more fun and experimenting.

[Area 10]

I think foils will provide for more fun and experimenting.

Yep. It’s a shame however that you seem to need such specific conditions to get the most out of foiling - and to learn it. The thing I liked about SUP when I started was that I could go out and enjoy myself in pretty much any conditions. But what I’m already seeing in foilers is what I constantly hear from my windsurfing buddies, i.e. constant bellyaching that the conditions aren’t right (wind too strong, not strong enough, wrong direction etc) or their equipment isn’t right for them.

I was at my local break a few weeks ago in typical summer conditions (1ft dribble, 15 knots onshore) and the local foilers were telling me how fun foiling was. So I asked “could I go out now and have fun on a foil”? And they said no, you need a bit bigger bump. And you’d need deeper water. But the swell shouldn’t be over about waist height. And you don’t want other people around you. And it’s best if there are clean windless small bumps that don’t break for miles in order to learn. And maybe you should hire a boat for ££££ and learn how to do it before going out in the ocean.... and the equipment breaks so watch the costs.. and the equipment is changing fast so be careful buying used gear... and your feet have to be exactly right so... .etc etc.. jeez! I just want to turn up at the beach any day I like, jump on a board, hit the water with the minimum fuss, and have guaranteed fun!

[yugi]

Yep.

That's why I paddle. Any conditions, rain or shine, glass or chop. Just grab the paddle and board and get out there and deal with it.

Which is why I gun for allwater boards. Keep it simple.

[yes, eagle, I have ridden narrow boards]

[Area 10]

Yep.

That's why I paddle. Any conditions, rain or shine, glass or chop. Just grab the paddle and board and get out there and deal with it.

Which is why I gun for allwater boards. Keep it simple.

[yes, eagle, I have ridden narrow boards]

That’s exactly where I am with this sport too.

[Eagle]

Yeah most allwater boards are optimized for all conditions use.  So my choice for that is the Bullet 14V2.  Stable but not too wide and inefficient.  Does everything adequately -> even flat water.  But is probs the most popular board for DW runs up HS way.

[Area 10]

Yeah most allwater boards are optimized for all conditions use.  So my choice for that is the Bullet 14V2.  Stable but not too wide and inefficient.  Does everything adequately -> even flat water.  But is probs the most popular board for DW runs up HS way.

Tried a Bark Vapor yet? Put that alongside a bullet V2 on a small-medium downwind and tell me what you think.

Or a JL Rail.

Or if it’s really small (just inches), a RS.

Or a Maliko.

Or a 2019 JL Sidewinder.

Or a SIC Bayonet.

Lots of good options out there right now for small downwind. The Bullet is no longer the only game in town. All these others are faster in flatwater too.